Merit System Upgrade

[nutildah]

The thread is still open so I'm gonna guess you were made a merit source.

I just have one question: why'd you give this guy 20 merit for this post? Most of his posts are cold garbage. When I read them the voice in my mind takes on that of a lobotomy patient. He just trudges through words for the sake of filling bounties.

Not saying you can't, just want to know why. You give them away in bunches of 20 I see... Maybe he applied for meritship here, I apologize for not reading the entire thread.

[QuestionAuthority]

The thread is still open so I'm gonna guess you were made a merit source.

I just have one question: why'd you give this guy 20 merit for this post? Most of his posts are cold garbage. When I read them the voice in my mind takes on that of a lobotomy patient. He just trudges through words for the sake of filling bounties.

Not saying you can't, just want to know why. You give them away in bunches of 20 I see... Maybe he applied for meritship here, I apologize for not reading the entire thread.

Running this thread made me realize that guy is the average user now. There’s no brain power left here. Bots puking meaningless drivel, altcoin pump-n-dumpers, bounty hunters, scammers, and campaign managers are all that’s left. 125 page threads of “who’s Satoshi” are the norm because you need to post something to earn money. Bitcoin (the only thing I cared about here) is gone from this forum. Air droplets of cumcoin and tittymilkcoin are the serious discussions now. Bitcoin Jesus has been nailed to the cross and replaced by bitcoin satan.

I thought the merit system (a last ditch effort at redemption) might bring back the fire and I really tried to make it work. Instead all it did was create another altcoin (meritcoin) to be traded secretly on other forums so it can be used by Indonesian posters to make fiat using google translate. Why give him merit? Because he is this forum now.

[JayJuanGee]

The thread is still open so I'm gonna guess you were made a merit source.

I just have one question: why'd you give this guy 20 merit for this post? Most of his posts are cold garbage. When I read them the voice in my mind takes on that of a lobotomy patient. He just trudges through words for the sake of filling bounties.

Not saying you can't, just want to know why. You give them away in bunches of 20 I see... Maybe he applied for meritship here, I apologize for not reading the entire thread.

Running this thread made me realize that guy is the average user now. There’s no brain power left here. Bots puking meaningless drivel, altcoin pump-n-dumpers, bounty hunters, scammers, and campaign managers are all that’s left. 125 page threads of “who’s Satoshi” are the norm because you need to post something to earn money. Bitcoin (the only thing I cared about here) is gone from this forum. Air droplets of cumcoin and tittymilkcoin are the serious discussions now. Bitcoin Jesus has been nailed to the cross and replaced by bitcoin satan.

I thought the merit system (a last ditch effort at redemption) might bring back the fire and I really tried to make it work. Instead all it did was create another altcoin (meritcoin) to be traded secretly on other forums so it can be used by Indonesian posters to make fiat using google translate. Why give him merit? Because he is this forum now.

My assessment is that there is too much pessimism from you, QA, in this here above attached post.

Of course, there are shitty people, scammers and deluded alt coin pumpers in the world and in this forum, but there are are also a lot of smart people who are not deluded and who are trying their best to contribute to the space and to learn as they go.. including having considerable understanding and sympathies for bitcoin. 

Furthermore, it seems quite obvious that there is an ability to lead by example in the fight agains misinformation and misleading information, which can also come from you. 

I did tell you, in another post, that I did appreciate some of your tough talk against the alt coins and your emphasis and praise of Bitcoin maximalists, yet I am a little disappointed if you are giving up on attempts to lead by example in the bitcoin maximalism direction, because certainly this space continues to need folks who are either OGs in bitcoin or at least have been around for long enough and who can share their experiences.. and hopefully not get sucked into the bullshit that is inevitable in life (especially in fields that involve folks wanting to make money and some of the other areas of extension of bitcoin into politics, etc)..

Seems to me that part of that battle is an aspect that you already have shown yourself to be capable of, and that is identifying the difference between something of value and a scam, including continuing with a kind of bitcoin maximalism.. I might not agree with you on a variety of topics, including some of your bitcoin opinions but that is not the point. 

Even if there could be some possibilities that some other project(s) beats out bitcoin, currently, there are no other project(s) that are even in close to being in such ballpark, so does not hurt to continue forward with some form of propagation of bitcoin maximalism.

[yefi]

Jay, people need to start using bitcoin as a currency and not just an investment. Bitcoin is a failure if all its ever going to be is an etf or a penny stock.  

How you going to use it as a currency when 1% or less of the population believe in it? You need coincidence of wants for trade, and you need coincidence of belief in a medium for it to act as a currency. We have far to climb yet before two strangers can break bread in the bit-church, but climb we must.

[JayJuanGee]

Jay, people need to start using bitcoin as a currency and not just an investment. Bitcoin is a failure if all its ever going to be is an etf or a penny stock.  

How you going to use it as a currency when 1% or less of the population believe in it? You need coincidence of wants for trade, and you need coincidence of belief in a medium for it to act as a currency. We have far to climb yet before two strangers can break bread in the bit-church, but climb we must.

You are not really saying anything different from me, yefi, yet can't we concede that there has been a whole hell-of-a lot of development, adoption, and even public consciousness in bitcoin between 2013 and today, yet perhaps bitcoin grew from .05% to .75% of world adoption.  Great progress, but holy shit far from being able to serve anything like a currency - even while liquidity is way better, so for example, from almost anywhere in the world, if you can get an internet connection, you can transfer various amounts of money for almost free an no one can stop you. 

Of course, some places it is going to be difficult to figure out how to cash out your bitcoin, so there may be some fees involved, but bitcoin definitely gives options to people - and peeps are going to come to this better mouse trap, even though it could take 50 years for people to figure out - including getting distracted by the multitude of shit coin imitators who are building and selling fake mousetraps.

[yefi]

You are not really saying anything different from me, yefi, yet can't we concede that there has been a whole hell-of-a lot of development, adoption, and even public consciousness in bitcoin between 2013 and today, yet perhaps bitcoin grew from .05% to .75% of world adoption.  Great progress, but holy shit far from being able to serve anything like a currency - even while liquidity is way better, so for example, from almost anywhere in the world, if you can get an internet connection, you can transfer various amounts of money for almost free an no one can stop you.  

Of course, some places it is going to be difficult to figure out how to cash out your bitcoin, so there may be some fees involved, but bitcoin definitely gives options to people - and peeps are going to come to this better mouse trap, even though it could take 50 years for people to figure out - including getting distracted by the multitude of shit coin imitators who are building and selling fake mousetraps.

Technically we can't concede, because we've never resisted or denied those things . Bitcoin growth and development has been amazing. I could not have wished for more when I joined this forum five years ago.

You are right also, we appear to both be paraphrasing a point that the currency function will emerge naturally as a result of Bitcoin's continued growth. The lack of that function at present is no reason to dismiss Bitcoin.

[QuestionAuthority]

A bar of soap can be currency if two or more people decide to trade things for bars of soap. The problem arises when people decide to trade for the soap and then lock all their soap in a basement.

Bitcoin is currency right now but everyone has it locked in their basement.

[nutildah]

I thought the merit system (a last ditch effort at redemption) might bring back the fire and I really tried to make it work. Instead all it did was create another altcoin (meritcoin) to be traded secretly on other forums so it can be used by Indonesian posters to make fiat using google translate. Why give him merit? Because he is this forum now.

Actually the dude (dudette) I referenced is Filipino, but that's pretty darn close.

I kind of understand where you're coming from, but I truly think that its better than nothing and the place would be even more over-run by spambots if this hurdle wasn't there. Sincerely, the system is preventing account farmers from ranking up 50+ accounts just to be sold or used in bounty campaigns.

There's no way I'm not being at least slightly hypocritical here because I myself joined a sig campaign, but still I'd like to think there's a difference between me and your average Jake Zyrus over there. Not only did I initially come here to learn but I don't write the first ten words that come to mind and call it a post. Truthfully I almost never click on signatures and I don't know how there's money to be made by that form of advertising, but apparently there is...

[MeEsH BaCcA]

A bar of soap can be currency if two or more people decide to trade things for bars of soap. The problem arises when people decide to trade for the soap and then lock all their soap in a basement.

Bitcoin is currency right now but everyone has it locked in their basement.

I made a similar comment in the “gold 1000+ years BTC 10 years or some bullshit” thread. It’s all well and good holding on to something but that something only has value if people are actively trading it. The whole Bitcoin pool could be spread evenly between every holder on this forum and if none of them would ‘spend’ any the the effective value of bitcoin would be 0.

I don’t think there is a chance of stagnation any time soon but if mass adoption and TX fees durning increased periods of activity are not resolved then it BTC may as well be the proverbial bar of soap.

[dikobraz123]

After some pondering; I have concluded that Bitcointalk members can be grouped in 4 distinct categories:

A - crypto enthusiasts eager to learn more about blockchain technology and also passionate about the idea of decentralized currency

B - people who like the idea of decentralized currency; but don't have time/interest/background to learn much more than basic knowledge needed to effortlessly use cryptocurrency

C - people who are here solely for income from bounty campaigns (those people are usually from very poor countries and I don't judge them because their economic situation is often the result of "effort" of rich countries)

D - spammers, FUD-sters, trolls, etc.

I'm from B category (with some  A mixed in) )
And I believe that this forum needs a policy which will detect and ban D group (as soon as possible), and also try to "convert" C group into A or B. (the crypto needs a wider audience and a mass adoption ))
Also, bear in mind that many of A and B users won't restrain from bounty campaigns, but that's not their No. 1 reason to dwell here.

Merit system is better than no system; but perhaps it needs some redesign and polishing...

My two cents...

[nutildah]

After some pondering; I have concluded that Bitcointalk members can be grouped in 4 distinct categories:

A - crypto enthusiasts eager to learn more about blockchain technology and also passionate about the idea of decentralized currency

B - people who like the idea of decentralized currency; but don't have time/interest/background to learn much more than basic knowledge needed to effortlessly use cryptocurrency

C - people who are here solely for income from bounty campaigns (those people are usually from very poor countries and I don't judge them because their economic situation is often the result of "effort" of rich countries)

D - spammers, FUD-sters, trolls, etc.

This is a pretty reasonable breakdown. Like you, I started off as B (I was a lurker for about 6 months before that), then I quickly moved into A. However, I did spend some time being a troll in D, but I think my intentions were good. Not getting into it immediately for the money (or shit tokens) is a sign of good faith that you're hear to do some learnin' and contribute, which separates you from 90% of other noobs which immediately launch into a career of mindless shitposting. Best of luck to you.

[dikobraz123]

@nutildah - thank you for the kind words


After some more pondering; I've got an idea of "antimerit". If the forum have merits; then it can have a negative iteration of merit - the "antimerit".
If the senior users could have the power to give negative merit to overly active spammer/shitposter; it could prevent a lot of junk on this forum. The number of "antimerits" should be limited in some sensible way - to prevent misuse of power.

[JayJuanGee]

@nutildah - thank you for the kind words


After some more pondering; I've got an idea of "antimerit". If the forum have merits; then it can have a negative iteration of merit - the "antimerit".
If the senior users could have the power to give negative merit to overly active spammer/shitposter; it could prevent a lot of junk on this forum. The number of "antimerits" should be limited in some sensible way - to prevent misuse of power.

Forum members have frequently raised the idea of antimerits (or demerits), and I personally believe that it is very unlikely that theymos would introduce such a system, especially when looking that the trust system and having the trust and untrust features. 

In my viewpoint, if such a system of demerits were introduced, it would result in a lot of unnecessary and petty squabbling and likely bring out the worst in members.

theymos did actually mention "demerits" when he introduced the merit system, and likely he has made some subsequent post on the topic that continues to show reluctance to entertain proposals to add "demerits" to the forum.

Below are theymos's words in his original merit system introduction post:

..............
There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

[nutildah]

Forum members have frequently raised the idea of antimerits (or demerits), and I personally believe that it is very unlikely that theymos would introduce such a system, especially when looking that the trust system and having the trust and untrust features. 

In my viewpoint, if such a system of demerits were introduced, it would result in a lot of unnecessary and petty squabbling and likely bring out the worst in members.

theymos did actually mention "demerits" when he introduced the merit system, and likely he has made some subsequent post on the topic that continues to show reluctance to entertain proposals to add "demerits" to the forum.

I like the idea of requiring 10 sMerits to produce 1 demerit, that way its costly to really mess with somebody. Even with this ratio, you're right, it would still bring out a lot of pettiness and there's already quite a bit of that going around these days.

[JayJuanGee]

Forum members have frequently raised the idea of antimerits (or demerits), and I personally believe that it is very unlikely that theymos would introduce such a system, especially when looking that the trust system and having the trust and untrust features. 

In my viewpoint, if such a system of demerits were introduced, it would result in a lot of unnecessary and petty squabbling and likely bring out the worst in members.

theymos did actually mention "demerits" when he introduced the merit system, and likely he has made some subsequent post on the topic that continues to show reluctance to entertain proposals to add "demerits" to the forum.

I like the idea of requiring 10 sMerits to produce 1 demerit, that way its costly to really mess with somebody. Even with this ratio, you're right, it would still bring out a lot of pettiness and there's already quite a bit of that going around these days.

Yes.  I have read some variations of  proposals like you suggest 10/1 or something like that, and that would cause some reservations of members to employ such demerits in such a system.

[El duderino_]

After some pondering; I have concluded that Bitcointalk members can be grouped in 4 distinct categories:

A - crypto enthusiasts eager to learn more about blockchain technology and also passionate about the idea of decentralized currency

B - people who like the idea of decentralized currency; but don't have time/interest/background to learn much more than basic knowledge needed to effortlessly use cryptocurrency

C - people who are here solely for income from bounty campaigns (those people are usually from very poor countries and I don't judge them because their economic situation is often the result of "effort" of rich countries)

D - spammers, FUD-sters, trolls, etc.

This is a pretty reasonable breakdown. Like you, I started off as B (I was a lurker for about 6 months before that), then I quickly moved into A. However, I did spend some time being a troll in D, but I think my intentions were good. Not getting into it immediately for the money (or shit tokens) is a sign of good faith that you're hear to do some learnin' and contribute, which separates you from 90% of other noobs which immediately launch into a career of mindless shitposting. Best of luck to you.

I don't always know where to put myself if these were the options, I explained before how I get into BTC, short vers --> play poker for more then 15years, did all the different cash games, tournaments etc but also organised a "HOME" game.
@some point a fella dropped in cause he heard from a friend we were playing.... Now he didn't really was looking for a game but more fore a fun place, smoke a blunt, chill place, play some poker (stakes were not his usual high, i also played higher but it was a fun game etc), now he was an online king in HU playing with no question the BEST from Belgium @ that time and probably a TOP spot worldwide, "HU playing" but he discovered very early the BTC play sides and crushed them all "literally".
of-course he made all in BTC and HODLed as that was his main goal for winning.
Now he was playing @the live tables and lost a bit, if he needed to pay € he had to change BTC of-course and he didn't like to make those BTC-sells etc

Then it happened, i didn't knew anything of that guy and he asked me if he would lose its ok to pay me in BTC and i pay the winner of the game.

me---> what is A BTC?? anno when the price went from 360-ish to ATH "he always repeat i'm the luckiest ever to be introduced @that time"
he ---> highly intelligent guy explained me and provided me everything to handle and so on

then he lose ---> pay, all went good, lucky as i was "i was the winning guy"

then the game changed "No more HOME games with much peeps" only me, him and a select group of peeps playing online for BTC to each other

What i wanna say= i didn't ever hear the name BTC or WO-thread before that single guy, and he introduced me to this world so well so good, always took care for me and learned me so much, i'm absolutely no BTC-tech expert guy, but i no for damn sure he is, i would put myself in CATEGORY B, with the willing to learn all there is to know about BTC-)but i'm just not a good computer guy surely no programmer etc, what i am from CATEGORY A= an absolute crypto enthusiasts....... but when those guys talking about technical stuff then yeah sometimes i lose it and can't follow
of-course my longterm perspective is what it needs to be to be a BTC'er

as of today we still play our thing and i learn more and more cause of him and cause of being here, then why am I here, obviously to learn, mostly active @the WO, but also cause its a bit of a chill place were nobody cares if i go OT sometimes and yeah that maybe happens to often but then again everybody there likes to have a good laugh and the humor down there is pretty good, I also like to share some news there that crosses my path etc

so me = MIX A and B

and i think its better to have some Merit system then no Merit system, as I don't only use it as when i think something = of high quality, I also like to use it when I think something is good humor as for THX as when I see somebody is posting something with best intentions etc


BTW@ OP "QuestionAuthority" .......... long time no see :-/

[QuestionAuthority]

After some pondering; I have concluded that Bitcointalk members can be grouped in 4 distinct categories:

A - crypto enthusiasts eager to learn more about blockchain technology and also passionate about the idea of decentralized currency

B - people who like the idea of decentralized currency; but don't have time/interest/background to learn much more than basic knowledge needed to effortlessly use cryptocurrency

C - people who are here solely for income from bounty campaigns (those people are usually from very poor countries and I don't judge them because their economic situation is often the result of "effort" of rich countries)

D - spammers, FUD-sters, trolls, etc.

This is a pretty reasonable breakdown. Like you, I started off as B (I was a lurker for about 6 months before that), then I quickly moved into A. However, I did spend some time being a troll in D, but I think my intentions were good. Not getting into it immediately for the money (or shit tokens) is a sign of good faith that you're hear to do some learnin' and contribute, which separates you from 90% of other noobs which immediately launch into a career of mindless shitposting. Best of luck to you.

I don't always know where to put myself if these were the options, I explained before how I get into BTC, short vers --> play poker for more then 15years, did all the different cash games, tournaments etc but also organised a "HOME" game.
@some point a fella dropped in cause he heard from a friend we were playing.... Now he didn't really was looking for a game but more fore a fun place, smoke a blunt, chill place, play some poker (stakes were not his usual high, i also played higher but it was a fun game etc), now he was an online king in HU playing with no question the BEST from Belgium @ that time and probably a TOP spot worldwide, "HU playing" but he discovered very early the BTC play sides and crushed them all "literally".
of-course he made all in BTC and HODLed as that was his main goal for winning.
Now he was playing @the live tables and lost a bit, if he needed to pay € he had to change BTC of-course and he didn't like to make those BTC-sells etc

Then it happened, i didn't knew anything of that guy and he asked me if he would lose its ok to pay me in BTC and i pay the winner of the game.

me---> what is A BTC?? anno when the price went from 360-ish to ATH "he always repeat i'm the luckiest ever to be introduced @that time"
he ---> highly intelligent guy explained me and provided me everything to handle and so on

then he lose ---> pay, all went good, lucky as i was "i was the winning guy"

then the game changed "No more HOME games with much peeps" only me, him and a select group of peeps playing online for BTC to each other

What i wanna say= i didn't ever hear the name BTC or WO-thread before that single guy, and he introduced me to this world so well so good, always took care for me and learned me so much, i'm absolutely no BTC-tech expert guy, but i no for damn sure he is, i would put myself in CATEGORY B, with the willing to learn all there is to know about BTC-)but i'm just not a good computer guy surely no programmer etc, what i am from CATEGORY A= an absolute crypto enthusiasts....... but when those guys talking about technical stuff then yeah sometimes i lose it and can't follow
of-course my longterm perspective is what it needs to be to be a BTC'er

as of today we still play our thing and i learn more and more cause of him and cause of being here, then why am I here, obviously to learn, mostly active @the WO, but also cause its a bit of a chill place were nobody cares if i go OT sometimes and yeah that maybe happens to often but then again everybody there likes to have a good laugh and the humor down there is pretty good, I also like to share some news there that crosses my path etc

so me = MIX A and B

and i think its better to have some Merit system then no Merit system, as I don't only use it as when i think something = of high quality, I also like to use it when I think something is good humor as for THX as when I see somebody is posting something with best intentions etc


BTW@ OP "QuestionAuthority" .......... long time no see :-/

Oh, I’ve turned into an occasional lurker. If I keep posting here I’m just going to get banned for no reason. Besides, this place isn’t nearly as funny as it was when I first came here in 2011.

[JayJuanGee]

Oh, I’ve turned into an occasional lurker. If I keep posting here I’m just going to get banned for no reason. Besides, this place isn’t nearly as funny as it was when I first came here in 2011.

Of course, you have to make these kinds of choices for yourself in terms of understanding your own ability to self-censor.

If you remain interested in bitcoin, then maybe you could just limit yourself to bitcoin related threads such as the WO thread... and tell peeps to fuck off if they want to discuss other matters with you?

Of  course, I did not always agree on your bitcoin views, but of course, there can be decent value to the forum and to you when there is brainstorming of ideas, especially from peeps who have been involved in bitcoin for a while, like yourself.

I understand that if you are not ready  or maybe your views may have evolved outside of forum tolerance levels, then it can be good to recognize that too.

On a personal level, I feel that I learn way more to post interactively rather than if I were to merely read posts.. but hey to each their own..... and speculatively maybe instead of seeing you posting during the expected BTC bull run to $50k and beyond, instead, we will see you posting about the BTC sales (and profit taking) that you are accomplishing in the $12k arena... hahahahahahaha Funny how patterns will have a tendency to repeat.   

[Agarthian]

What about the people who got their SR Member accounts hacked and now have to start from beginning ?

We are royally screwed and I blame admin for not recovering my accounts or showing the least of interest in doing so.

[El duderino_]

Oh, I’ve turned into an occasional lurker. If I keep posting here I’m just going to get banned for no reason. Besides, this place isn’t nearly as funny as it was when I first came here in 2011.

Visit the WO from time to time