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Author Topic: Merit System Upgrade  (Read 9467 times)
QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
#41

Looking ahead, I want to say that I do not take part in your contest, and I do not want that this post would be appreciated by someone, it is written from the heart!!! It's nice to know that there are such people on this forum!


QA You're really cool !!! I am one of those people who believe that people can be judged by their actions. Looking and reading the forum the last two days, and understanding the craziness around merit, and for the sake of assessing fasting, you are ready to give people hope. What would they have earned their appreciation with their minds! You save people the most valuable resource on earth - time! It seems to me that bitcoin is alive, and will live also thanks to people like you. This is a cool thing, I respect you.


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   He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Thank you, thatís very nice.

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QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 04:32:28 PM
#42

@OP. i started this topic. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2833111.msg29044855#msg29044855
If you are not OK with it then let me know and i will close it.

I like it. Iíll keep an eye on your progress and contribute merit to you if I see you awarding merit based on one thing. Are they actually discussing something and contributing to the brainpower of the forum or simply posting to gain rank to cash in.

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January 27, 2018, 04:37:21 PM
Merited by QuestionAuthority (20), KWH (5), Samarkand (2)
#43

I donít have much Merit to give but Iím going to give it up until itís all gone. Iím not sure if this is the right section for this thread because Iím not really selling anything. Itís about accounts so Iíll just leave it here until someone decides to move it. I donít know if this is wrong to do. I donít care if I get negative trust for doing this because I donít buy anything here, sell anything here, join signature campaigns or post routinely in threads that even show the trust rating. Essentially I donít make money here so I donít use trust anyway.

I felt sorry for SOME of the members that posted in the merit thread. They seemed to be fairly articulate, fairly knowledgeable, rational and really trying to be members of this group of dreamers (community).

Hereís how itís going to work. Youíre not just going to beg for merit and I give it. Do not PM me and offer to pay me for merit points. Your money means nothing to me. I have given away more bitcoin than you will likely earn while on this forum (just ask Gleb Gamow if you donít believe me). I will report you to a mod that will give you negative trust for being a potential scammer. You will ask me to research your post history and direct me to 10-20 posts that you believe show you have a deep desire to learn about, use, and support bitcoin. I will then ask you a couple of questions about how bitcoin works and you will answer them. I donít care if you take some time to research the answer if you come up with the correct answer. That just means Iíve made you learn more about bitcoin than you knew previously.

Bitcoin does not mean altcoin. I know altcoins are more popular on this forum than bitcoin. I donít care. I will only help bitcoiners level up. If most of your post history is in altcoin threads I wonít help you. I do not consider Bitcoin Cash to be bitcoin. If you donít know what the real bitcoin is then you havenít been here long enough for me to help you. Which leads me to the group Iím willing to help.


Nice idea, I guess. I kind of understand why you are restricting the contest to Bitcoin as it is what you prefer and what is (was) the real purpose of this forum. What irritates me a bit is that fact that if someone didn't join 1-2 years ago, there really is no way around altcoins. It's like saying 'You need to support Apple because they invented and introduced the first mainstream smartphone and because of that I only help people who are interested in Apple.' If someone wants to buy a smartphone nowadays, wouldn't it be foolish of him not to research the market and have a look at all major companies that build smartphones?

If someone comes to me and askes about bitcoin, then I'll explain it to him to the best of my knowledge. But almost always they don't stop there. One of the next questions - in almost all cases - is: What is Ethereum and Litecoin.. and I heard of Ripple. So, what now? Shouldn't I answer him his question and explain the differences? You can't avoid altcoins. They are here and they'll stay. I know what you mean, I also see it as a form of dilution. But this effect is counteracted by the number of people entering crypto. So maybe the market cap of bitcoin is lesser percentage-wise but not absolute and that is what matters, I think.

What I mean is, you can't say Crypto without mentioning (and explaining) altcoins and people who are new don't stick with only Bitcoin, assuming this is wishfull thinking.

Back to my question. I try to learn as much as I can and I try to also pass on my knowledge, my experiences and that what I've learned from my mistakes.
I'm doing this in the local German forum, e.g., in the help section. Mainly by answering peoples questions who are new in crypto, easing their FOMO and telling them to relax (while guiding them to sources):
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2261645.msg22921955#msg22921955
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2333206.msg23785787#msg23785787
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2281423.msg23253445#msg23253445
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2266969.msg23224153#msg23224153
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2403253.msg24739987#msg24739987
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2241585.msg22923205#msg22923205
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2233101.msg22954324#msg22954324
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2239026.msg22949831#msg22949831
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2262582.msg22944721#msg22944721
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764218.msg23270734#msg23270734
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2262582.msg23001486#msg23001486
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2223204.msg22925854#msg22925854
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2222496.msg22948584#msg22948584
...

It's in no particular order and I'm doing this as time permits.
As I said, I understand the purpose of your thread but I hope that you also understand, this is a perfect example that proves that the fear of many lower ranking members is warranted. You need to find people who have sMerit and please them. All that this post tells me is: you're helping the wrong way, stop that.

What I don't get is this: You yourself are saying that the system is flawed and that people got screwed. Hell, I feel screwed and it's disheartening what happened, at least for me. The new system favours an elite circle. Yet you're doing the same thing by setting those requirements. Why is that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not intending to be rude, I'm just disappointed by all of this...

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QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
#44

This would be very nice of you as I need 150 merits to get to Sr. Member and I got 196 activity (should be 210 in few days).

I would be happy to apply for these questions Smiley

You read the OP so lead me to some of your posts. Itís easier for me if you do because I might miss the ones that you want me to see.

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January 27, 2018, 04:38:01 PM
#45

@OP.

i like your idea. if i can help you be sending you some sMerit then let me know how much you think is OK for you.
of if i can't help with something else then let me know too.

or maybe i can copy the idea into the altcoin sub. because i am active in this section.

You setting up your own thread in the altcoin section is actually a good idea. I donít know if the alt people have anyone helping them yet.

the topic is on page two....... this will be easy for me if anybody wants to participate.  Huh

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January 27, 2018, 05:17:41 PM
#46


Nice idea, I guess. I kind of understand why you are restricting the contest to Bitcoin as it is what you prefer and what is (was) the real purpose of this forum. What irritates me a bit is that fact that if someone didn't join 1-2 years ago, there really is no way around altcoins. It's like saying 'You need to support Apple because they invented and introduced the first mainstream smartphone and because of that I only help people who are interested in Apple.' If someone wants to buy a smartphone nowadays, wouldn't it be foolish of him not to research the market and have a look at all major companies that build smartphones?

If someone comes to me and askes about bitcoin, then I'll explain it to him to the best of my knowledge. But almost always they don't stop there. One of the next questions - in almost all cases - is: What is Ethereum and Litecoin.. and I heard of Ripple. So, what now? Shouldn't I answer him his question and explain the differences? You can't avoid altcoins. There are here and they'll stay. I know what you mean, I also see it as a form of dilution. But this effect is counteracted by the number of people entering crypto. So maybe the market cap of bitcoin is lesser percentage-wise but not absolute and that is what matters, I think.

What I mean is, you can't say Crypto without mentioning (and explaining) altcoins and people who are new don't stick with only Bitcoin, assuming this is wishfull thinking.

Back to my question. I try to learn as much as I can and I try to also pass on my knowledge, my experiences and that what I've learned from my mistakes.
I'm doing this in the local German forum, e.g., in the help section. Mainly by answering peoples questions who are new in crypto, easing their FOMO and telling them to relax (while guiding them to sources):
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2261645.msg22921955#msg22921955
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2333206.msg23785787#msg23785787
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2281423.msg23253445#msg23253445
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2266969.msg23224153#msg23224153
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2403253.msg24739987#msg24739987
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2241585.msg22923205#msg22923205
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2233101.msg22954324#msg22954324
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2239026.msg22949831#msg22949831
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2262582.msg22944721#msg22944721
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764218.msg23270734#msg23270734
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2262582.msg23001486#msg23001486
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2223204.msg22925854#msg22925854
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2222496.msg22948584#msg22948584
...

It's in no particular order and I'm doing this as time permits.
As I said, I understand the purpose of your thread but I hope that you also understand that this is a perfect example that proves that the fear of many lower ranking members is warranted. You need to find people who have sMerit and please them. All that this post tells me is: you're helping the wrong way, stop that.

What I don't get is this: You yourself are saying that the system is flawed and that people got screwed. Hell, I feel screwed and it's disheartening what happened, at least for me. The new system favours an elite circle. Yet you're doing the same thing by setting those requirements. Why is that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not intending to be rude, I'm just disappointed by all of this...


I hear you and understand, I just donít see a better way to do it. Many forums solve this problem using ďlikesĒ which is way worse. This forum also has a more difficult time weeding out low value posts because itís a financial forum that allows people to make money with posts. I needed to use something to limit the number of people visiting this thread because it would be overwhelming for me to review everyone on the forum that wants to rank up. There are already people doing it in the alt section so they arenít missing out. I donít know enough about altcoins to be able to judge their post quality anyway. I shouldnít admit this, but that whole section looks like a shit nest of bitching and bickering to me. I wouldnít even know where to begin. Iím helping the group that I see were the most effected by the change in the only way I can.

My computer caught on fire using google translate looking at your posts but fortunately I speak a little German so that helped. Iím trying to limit helping people in local sections because so much is lost in translation but I think I can see that you are actively participating and improving the forum by being here.

20 merit points awarded.

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January 27, 2018, 06:01:47 PM
#47

Some of my older posts that show support for Bitcoin:

1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2054801.msg20567984#msg20567984
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072642.msg20723891#msg20723891
3. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072642.msg20714723#msg20714723
4. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072642.msg20714332#msg20714332
5. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072642.msg20714085#msg20714085
6. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2080418.msg20798030#msg20798030
7. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2080405.msg20797320#msg20797320
8. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2118206.msg21192736#msg21192736
9. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2131906.msg21309047#msg21309047
10. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2131906.msg21308068#msg21308068

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January 27, 2018, 06:12:46 PM
#48


I needed to use something to limit the number of people visiting this thread because it would be overwhelming for me to review everyone on the forum that wants to rank up.

This I can understand indeed, I thought myself a couple of times that for this to work, this forum would need a lot more mods who have an eye on all subsections and that this would consume a lot of time. I get that for people who want to help (and are in the position to do so due to their rank) this could be also stressful as they try their best to be fair.

So thanks for your reply, it made me think. Maybe I try to do a similar thing you are doing. I don't have that much sMerit, yet, but I'll have an eye on those who maybe get overlook in the local forum. You also gave me a small kickstart, so I'll think of something. Maybe I apply for a Merit-Source. Thanks again, keep up what you're doing.

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saponetes
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January 27, 2018, 06:14:41 PM
#49

And what about Members almost reaching Full Member ranking position a couple of days after merit feature appears...
I think this is not fair...
At least at the very beggining of merit feature, merit should be given in a racio of next rank position, and not the lowest possible merit number.
I was two days of getting promoted, and now i have to collect a lot of points from "who knows" to upgrade my ranking position....

Look at my post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg29043109#msg29043109

You actually fit into the category Iím talking about, as do many forum members below the rank of Full Member.

hello questionauthority,


went to the post you mentioned that redirects to this post, it is kind of a loop... and i do not understand what is gonna to happen.
 What i should expect from bitcointalk devs, about the merit rank?
 Should i wait months to upgrade my rank when i was only about 48 hrs to be upgraded by the old system??? i feel very sad....

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January 27, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
#50


I do see that youíre actively engaged in debates, youíre fairly helpful and fairly knowledgeable.  You came really close to the correct answer in a few posts so I only have one question for you. Why did Satoshi create bitcoin? What is the one indisputable thing that bitcoin can do that the mainstream banking establishment canít do?

hashcoinusa
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January 27, 2018, 06:44:02 PM
#51


I created simple infographic for  members to understand new merit system
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg29023712#msg29023712

Merit system can be big plus if everyone win with it.

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aleksej996
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January 27, 2018, 06:46:05 PM
#52


I guess this might be a matter of opinion, but I would say that it is the fixed 21 million coin supply.  I guess he created it because he was sick of the bank bailouts that happened after 2008 financial crisis. That is why it is referenced in the first block. With no inflation, these banks wouldn't be able to be bailed out at the taxpayer's expense.

Darthswan
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January 27, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
#53

I guess this might be a matter of opinion, but I would say that it is the fixed 21 million coin supply.  I guess he created it because he was sick of the bank bailouts that happened after 2008 financial crisis. That is why it is referenced in the first block. With no inflation, these banks wouldn't be able to be bailed out at the taxpayer's expense.

but I think he wanted to solve the problem of centralized distribution of money.

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  Semux uses .100% original codebase.
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QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 06:54:07 PM
#54


I needed to use something to limit the number of people visiting this thread because it would be overwhelming for me to review everyone on the forum that wants to rank up.

This I can understand indeed, I thought myself a couple of times that for this to work, this forum would need a lot more mods who have an eye on all subsections and that this would consume a lot of time. I get that for people who want to help (and are in the position to do so due to their rank) this could be also stressful as they try their best to be fair.

So thanks for your reply, it made me think. Maybe I try to do a similar thing you are doing. I don't have that much sMerit, yet, but I'll have an eye on those who maybe get overlook in the local forum. You also gave me a small kickstart, so I'll think of something. Maybe I apply for a Merit-Source. Thanks again, keep up what you're doing.

Excellent, you understand the one thing that people still donít seem get concerning the merit system. Itís a user based system that requires the help of every member of the forum. Self policing is the most difficult thing you can ask people to do because it requires careful forethought and effort. Please do keep an eye on those people that need help.

aleksej996
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January 27, 2018, 06:57:27 PM
Merited by QuestionAuthority (20), KWH (5)
#55

I do see that youíre actively engaged in debates, youíre fairly helpful and fairly knowledgeable.  You came really close to the correct answer in a few posts so I only have one question for you. Why did Satoshi create bitcoin? What is the one indisputable thing that bitcoin can do that the mainstream banking establishment canít do?
but I think he wanted to solve the problem of centralized distribution of money.

Of course. It is decentralization that is the main feature of Bitcoin. But there are some people that dispute it, as mining is pretty centralized and some even claim LN will be centralized. I don't think Bitcoin will ever be centralized, but it is not that simple to measure centralization compared to the fixed market supply of Bitcoins. In a way, these two things are very tightly linked, inflation is the biggest problem of centralization we can see today. At least this kind of centralized inflation.

QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 06:59:06 PM
#56

And what about Members almost reaching Full Member ranking position a couple of days after merit feature appears...
I think this is not fair...
At least at the very beggining of merit feature, merit should be given in a racio of next rank position, and not the lowest possible merit number.
I was two days of getting promoted, and now i have to collect a lot of points from "who knows" to upgrade my ranking position....

Look at my post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg29043109#msg29043109

You actually fit into the category Iím talking about, as do many forum members below the rank of Full Member.

hello questionauthority,


went to the post you mentioned that redirects to this post, it is kind of a loop... and i do not understand what is gonna to happen.
 What i should expect from bitcointalk devs, about the merit rank?
 Should i wait months to upgrade my rank when i was only about 48 hrs to be upgraded by the old system??? i feel very sad....

Iím going to quote my linked post and highlight the relevant point because I think you missed it.

Quote
How is it possible to ever know the leanings of anyone? Could it be used to form cliques? Sure, I guess it could but this forum has a bigger problem to worry about right now. Because of the price rally within the past couple of months, this forum has had a massive amount of new members spamming the forum attempting to gain rank so they can collect a little coin and cash in. They donít care about cryptocurrency at all and are destroying the forum with useless posts. Iíve said the most ridiculous shit I could think of in a few threads attempting to get some of them to contradict me and reply. All they ever do is post a one liner and move on. Much of the real brain power using this forum moved on long ago because of this issue. Itís not going to be easy but at least the admins are trying something before the forum crumbles down around their feet from the weight of scammers, spammers and bounty hunters.

Iím giving away merit (the link is in my sig line). I havenít agreed with the opinion of most of the people I have given merit to so far. The only thing I have agreed with is their sincere desire to actively be here and interact with people to increase the quality of discourse. To sum it up, I think your wrong.

Darthswan
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January 27, 2018, 07:05:30 PM
#57

I do see that youíre actively engaged in debates, youíre fairly helpful and fairly knowledgeable.  You came really close to the correct answer in a few posts so I only have one question for you. Why did Satoshi create bitcoin? What is the one indisputable thing that bitcoin can do that the mainstream banking establishment canít do?
but I think he wanted to solve the problem of centralized distribution of money.

Of course. It is decentralization that is the main feature of Bitcoin. But there are some people that dispute it, as mining is pretty centralized and some even claim LN will be centralized. I don't think Bitcoin will ever be centralized, but it is not that simple to measure centralization compared to the fixed market supply of Bitcoins. In a way, these two things are very tightly linked, inflation is the biggest problem of centralization we can see today. At least this kind of centralized inflation.

I think that Satoshi has left us a riddle, the key point is the distribution of money directly at the time of their creation. If we solve it, then the world will change forever.

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  Semux uses .100% original codebase.
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QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 07:17:36 PM
#58

I do see that youíre actively engaged in debates, youíre fairly helpful and fairly knowledgeable.  You came really close to the correct answer in a few posts so I only have one question for you. Why did Satoshi create bitcoin? What is the one indisputable thing that bitcoin can do that the mainstream banking establishment canít do?
but I think he wanted to solve the problem of centralized distribution of money.

Of course. It is decentralization that is the main feature of Bitcoin. But there are some people that dispute it, as mining is pretty centralized and some even claim LN will be centralized. I don't think Bitcoin will ever be centralized, but it is not that simple to measure centralization compared to the fixed market supply of Bitcoins. In a way, these two things are very tightly linked, inflation is the biggest problem of centralization we can see today. At least this kind of centralized inflation.

Iím going to quote the guy that invented bitcoin.

Quote
What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party.

Decentralization comes as a natural benefit to the design of the system. As you pointed out decentralization isnít required for bitcoin to work. Mining is highly centralized right now. Satoshi was looking for a way to remove the need for a trusted third-party to be involved in financial transactions online.  We are currently steering away from that system and I donít know why everyone is allowing it to happen. Maybe itís because they just donít realize what Satoshi was trying to accomplish or they donít see any other way to make bitcoin successful.

Congrats aleksej996, 20 merit points awarded

Darthswan
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January 27, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
#59

but it always seemed to me that everything was a bit deeper than a payment system based on cryptographic evidence instead of trust, allowing any two interested parties to interact directly with each other without having to use a trusted third party. More precisely, I still think so, that everything is much deeper, just we have not reached this level yet)

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QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 07:53:29 PM
#60

but it always seemed to me that everything was a bit deeper than a payment system based on cryptographic evidence instead of trust, allowing any two interested parties to interact directly with each other without having to use a trusted third party. More precisely, I still think so, that everything is much deeper, just we have not reached this level yet)

No, itís just that simple. To buy something online you need a way to pay them, right? Before bitcoin you had to involve a bank of some kind (wire transfer, debit card, MasterCard, Visa, etc.). The only method available to keep a bank out of it was to mail cash to someone in an envelope. That is way too slow, inefficient and risky. Bitcoin lets you send money to people around the world without involving a bank. You can debate the reasons or lack of reasons for having a bank out of the picture all day long but you canít debate that Satoshi wanted to keep third parties out of the financial transactions between individuals.

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