Antminer V9 4TH

[Sitarow]

Just got the email from Bitmain this morning. 4 th/s @1000 watts? Lol is this 2015 with 28nm? I would have preferred an undervolted S9 or R4 to an undervolted S7.

Well I sharpened up the pencil a bit and this is the results. Factoring last two years difficulty increase and how much they are asking/projecting clients get in return compared to network difficulty increase.

Update: link to document
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharing

BTC/USD 8,500 USD at a conservative difficulty increase of 10% until march and 2% after.

https://i.imgur.com/Hf8xftO.png

BTC/USD 15,000 USD at a conservative difficulty increase of 10% until march and 2% after.

https://i.imgur.com/rzLkzIe.png

UPDATED: New Difficulty Info

[1713874008]

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[ricknamer]

Their miners already sell pretty well and most people probably won't even notice the new label on the miner. I don't think they've had many issues with product marketing recently considering their S9s sold out in minutes just a few weeks back.

However my point was that it is maybe not ideal to present a new product very similar to old one with such obvious image manipulation.

I agree. 100%. Here in America.

You are dealing with the Chinese now. Business customs and practices are so totally different that one can’t even begin to explain. You just have to work with them a few time and you’ll get it.

The label IS important. The label DOES make this a new item. This is how Chinese business works. If they are selling it and they are calling it new and they rebrand.  It’s new!

That’s why dealing with the Chinese and Latinos is a total PITA. They’re still developing.

Thanks for your bigotry.

Cool. Ride your high horse next time you send $100,000 wire transfer to a Chinese company who suddenly changes the terms of your agreement as soon as payment is received and let me know how it plays out for you.

[TimKwi]

So just for shits and grins, I clicked on the email I received from Bitmain to order 5 V9's.  The add to cart button works, but nothing appears in your cart.   Shitmain should put more thought into the operation of their website rather than re-branding S7's.

[dlezama]

Their miners already sell pretty well and most people probably won't even notice the new label on the miner. I don't think they've had many issues with product marketing recently considering their S9s sold out in minutes just a few weeks back.

However my point was that it is maybe not ideal to present a new product very similar to old one with such obvious image manipulation.

I agree. 100%. Here in America.

You are dealing with the Chinese now. Business customs and practices are so totally different that one can’t even begin to explain. You just have to work with them a few time and you’ll get it.

The label IS important. The label DOES make this a new item. This is how Chinese business works. If they are selling it and they are calling it new and they rebrand.  It’s new!

That’s why dealing with the Chinese and Latinos is a total PITA. They’re still developing.

Thanks for your bigotry.

Cool. Ride your high horse next time you send $100,000 wire transfer to a Chinese company who suddenly changes the terms of your agreement as soon as payment is received and let me know how it plays out for you.

Being scammed by a Chinese company doesn't give you the right of insulting all Chinese (and latinos while you're on it). My "high horse" is not that high.

[vegascoinpool]

Perhaps another (two) way(s) to look at this particular product... (at least this is how I am looking at it)...

I have been running some of Sidehack's 2Pac sticks on a small rig, and mining directly to a paper wallet that I'm stashing away for the BTC $500k days they say are coming. Or whatever. Rainy day wallet. The sticks have been religiously cranking away at 260-300 GH/s and its been an interesting learning curve and fun way to soak up some stuff. However, I wanted to do something a bit more effective towards my paper wallet mining, and had been considering a used Antminer S4 on eBay. At 2 TH (and 1300 watts) I've been debating the plusses and minuses of doing this. The units are cheap, and the "ROI" or profitability of the coins aren't as much a consideration for me as just slowly, quietly stacking some coin in the corner.

S4's have been averaging $275 - $350 on eBay. I'd have preferred an S7 for the additional hash rate and better power consumption, comparably. If the real investment in my paper mining is the power cost alone... so be it... but at $1,200 or so per S7 lately on eBay, it didn't make sense. That's more than I want to invest.

So these new V9 units are attractive to me for that reason alone. $345 and 4 TH okay... now we're talking. Better efficiency than S4, better hashing power than S4... sweet. Sign me up. So that's one way to see it.

But then... a good friend of mine told me what he's been doing with one of his S9 units. He bought extra S9 control boards on eBay and has been splitting an S9 into "three" functional units. You get the benefits of S9 power efficiency, and about 4.5 TH of hashing power per board. So he can split the hashing power across three different coins if he wants. In my case, I could break out a single board on an S9 unit to be the "paper wallet" board... and let the other two do what they've been doing.

[sidehack]

I can run a 900W S7 with a single fan at 30% and it's a heck of a lot quieter than a stock S7.

[ccgllc]

My guess is that it really is using a new chip with the old board design (why reinvent that portion if its works?).

I'm wondering if this is the new Samsung chip that has been in the news and that they simply don't work to spec?  This happened commonly in the "old days" back around 2014 with GAWs rebranded miners and other manufacturers.

If so, they are likely just dumping at a small margin to recover their losses while they work out whatever went wrong.

My 2 cents.

[majlkcze]

My guess is that it really is using a new chip with the old board design (why reinvent that portion if its works?).

I'm wondering if this is the new Samsung chip that has been in the news and that they simply don't work to spec?  This happened commonly in the "old days" back around 2014 with GAWs rebranded miners and other manufacturers.

If so, they are likely just dumping at a small margin to recover their losses while they work out whatever went wrong.

My 2 cents.

Samsung is manufacturing 10nm for EBANG miners, Im pretty sure.
This is most probably dump of old chips, because new miner on 12nm TSMC process comes March-April (Lets say S9+).
It make sense, because when Dragons (if exist) and Bitfury and new S9+ hits the market, theese chips will be worth nothing. Now there can be some desperate users with cheap or free electricity that can buy it.

Thats my view.

[QuintLeo]

Another interesting thing to note is these are 54 chip boards. The S7 hasnt been 54 chip since batch 3 or 4. They spent the majority of the time making the 45 chip model, so something has to be different.

 They're specified as 135 chips = 45 chip boards.

[qctechno]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside 

[Sandal_Hat]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside 

I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer

[zachj00]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside 

I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer

Why would you not want a new manufacturer?

[Sandal_Hat]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside 

I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer

Why would you not want a new manufacturer?

U want more difficulty?

[qctechno]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside 

I hope this is true. This means no new manufacturer

Why would you not want a new manufacturer?

U want more difficulty?

I have been keeping an eye on the Samsung news articles since they were first released at the end of January and this is the first and ONLY article that claims Bitmain is who they have partnered with. I would take it with a grain of salt and find it extremely strange that none of the other articles mention the partnership between the two. Honestly, as per Moore's Law, I don't see any drastic improvement in efficiency from them. At most I expect a 25% improvement... Say... 18Th/S at 1400 watts...

Chief Editor of Bitsonline.com ( https://twitter.com/TalonTech1 ) know really well Bitmain cie. He done review of most of their hardware over the pasts years.  I'm confident the news is not fake.

[QuintLeo]

This can explain a lot
Samsung Strikes Deal to Supply ASIC Chips to Bitmain
https://bitsonline.com/samsung-deal-asic-chips-bitmain/

Rushing out old stuff before selling new Antminer with Samsung chips inside  

No actual Samsung quote has specified who they are selling the ASIC chips TO - but eBang DID announce that they were working on a miner model using 10nm chips to be made by Samsung.

It would not shock me if Bitmain ALSO is going to source chips from Samsung, but it would be a major change for them.

[rockmoney]

As most others have already stated here, the Antminer V9 seems to be re-purposed mining hardware, likely from an old mine that is being upgraded (or rather already has). I honestly can't see anyone making brand new ASIC's that deploy old technology like this, so speculation as to where these miners came from (and why) had to be expected!

Also keep in mind that you will need (50) FIFTY PCI-E cables just to run the minimum order quantity of five units, as each one requires (10) ten single PCI-E connections from a PSU. And of course that will also require (10) ten receptacles and (10) ten power supplies (assuming you are using (1) one PSU per miner), otherwise you will need several high wattage PSU's, each with many PCI-E cables, or some other crazy solution for quenching the hunger of these power hungry turds beasts. Don't forget about the current USD price for the minimum order quantity of (5) five either; it will leave you with a total of $1725 USD to pay (not including shipping or duty fees/taxes) for the March batch. Lastly, as stated in the second line of the "payment" section, it seems there will be a 10-day period of absence due to the upcoming Chinese New Year from 2018 FEBRUARY 14 - 2018 FEBRUARY 24, which explains the March shipping date for a product that is more than likely ready right now (or perhaps these "new" machines are undergoing some final "testing" and will be used for mining one last time before offloading this old equipment).

In summary, I believe there's a reason that the Antminer V9 units have been readily available to purchase from BITMAIN's website for several days running now - every reasonable person is running as far away from these as possible, and besides the initial curiosity when first coming across the Antminer V9 for the first time, there simply seemd to be no interest (and for a good reason). My advice is simple - avoid these brand new miners at all costs!

[QuintLeo]

You don't have to be in China to get very very low electric rates.
Under 5 exists in the US in a few spots, even for "residential" usage, and I'm pretty sure you can get into that ballpark in a couple areas of Canada as well.
For that matter, there are 2 counties in the US that you can get under *3* cents/kwh for residential service.

Expecting big farms to not grow when they're profitable is DUMB.


There units don't need 10 power supplies - they don't eat AS MUCH power as the S9 does and use the same number of connections.
ONE power supply per unit is entirely viable, which would be *5* power supplies and outlets for the "minimum order quantity" - I have no clue where your "10" is comming from.

[Sandal_Hat]

You don't have to be in China to get very very low electric rates.
Under 5 exists in the US in a few spots, even for "residential" usage, and I'm pretty sure you can get into that ballpark in a couple areas of Canada as well.
For that matter, there are 2 counties in the US that you can get under *3* cents/kwh for residential service.

Expecting big farms to not grow when they're profitable is DUMB.


There units don't need 10 power supplies - they don't eat AS MUCH power as the S9 does and use the same number of connections.
ONE power supply per unit is entirely viable, which would be *5* power supplies and outlets for the "minimum order quantity" - I have no clue where your "10" is comming from.

At that electricity cost, it will still take 9 months plus to break even (without considering rental/staff/VAT/shipping cost). With those other costs included, it will be longer.

The risks:

-New stronger machines will come in and damage current returns. There are farms in the past that have gone offline with weaker machines like S7. There are also bankrupt mining farms like KNC.
-Warranty is only 6 months and it takes longer ot break even.
-Difficulty climbs even higher than expected due to new asic manufacturers

There is also the risk of bitcoin price going downwards and never going back up or just bursting,etc. Nothing is ever risk free. U have a higher chance of breaking even but it is not a sure thing.

[vegascoinpool]

At that electricity cost, it will still take 9 months plus to break even (without considering rental/staff/VAT/shipping cost). With those other costs included, it will be longer.

The risks:

-New stronger machines will come in and damage current returns. There are farms in the past that have gone offline with weaker machines like S7. There are also bankrupt mining farms like KNC.
-Warranty is only 6 months and it takes longer ot break even.
-Difficulty climbs even higher than expected due to new asic manufacturers

There is also the risk of bitcoin price going downwards and never going back up or just bursting,etc. Nothing is ever risk free. U have a higher chance of breaking even but it is not a sure thing.

Lot of solid points here. I think this machine is geared to only a very specific user. Either super cheap power, or some alternate motive beyond pure pricing (alt coin speculation, etc.).

[CryptoCrane]

At that electricity cost, it will still take 9 months plus to break even (without considering rental/staff/VAT/shipping cost). With those other costs included, it will be longer.

The risks:

-New stronger machines will come in and damage current returns. There are farms in the past that have gone offline with weaker machines like S7. There are also bankrupt mining farms like KNC.
-Warranty is only 6 months and it takes longer ot break even.
-Difficulty climbs even higher than expected due to new asic manufacturers

There is also the risk of bitcoin price going downwards and never going back up or just bursting,etc. Nothing is ever risk free. U have a higher chance of breaking even but it is not a sure thing.

Lot of solid points here. I think this machine is geared to only a very specific user. Either super cheap power, or some alternate motive beyond pure pricing (alt coin speculation, etc.).

I think the V9 appeals mostly to people who want to learn about mining, but don't want to invest thousands of dollars up-front. If I were just getting started, the V9 would be worth the money just so that I can make sure I know how everything works before purchasing a more efficient (expensive) miner. Besides, lots of people don't mind using these as glorified space heaters that earn a little money to offset the electricity. I have a neighbor using some D3s for that purpose specifically.