The problem with atheism.

[hawkeye]

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

OK.  I will give you that.  But as far as having a simple faith and believing in God, they may have been less "foolish" than so many are now.  The most dangerous sin of all is pride. Pride is what makes us think we know more than God or don't even need God and I think it is as the root of what causes many people to want to believe in Atheism.  Otherwise they would have to be humble enough to submit to a higher power and in reality many of us do not want to do that, or think we are just too "smart" to even believe.  

I've never understood how being proud can be a sin.  Thieving is a sin.  Murder is a sin.  Pride?  Seriously?

Submitting to someone or thing more powerful than yourself makes you humble?  I can't understand that one either.  Sounds like the kind of thing some "authority" figure would claim.   The kind of person who says "do as I say boy".  It's just authoritarian nonsense.  

It was when I started to think that God started to disappear, not for any other reason.  It just so happens that there is also a lot of unpleasantness, shall we say, in Christianity, but that wasn't the root cause of why I discarded it.  It's just the simple truth that did that.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

Thunder does occur when frequencies become out of tune by lower frequency entities.  Emotions cause weather.

lol

[termhn]

How could a caveman look up at the stars and not invent God? People want an explanation more than they want the truth. IMO, that is why God is still going strong even though we know it is mythology.

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

I know I will probably not make many friends here with that verse!  But before you shoot me down just remember that I did not write it.  Just quoting it. 

This is the kind of thing I do NOT understand AT ALL! You are trying to prove that your standpoint is correct by quoting something FROM YOUR STANDPOINT'S BELIEFS. That makes no sense! That only proves anything if it was ABSOLUTELY FACT, and not only fact because YOU believe in it!

[termhn]

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

OK.  I will give you that.  But as far as having a simple faith and believing in God, they may have been less "foolish" than so many are now.  The most dangerous sin of all is pride. Pride is what makes us think we know more than God or don't even need God and I think it is as the root of what causes many people to want to believe in Atheism.  Otherwise they would have to be humble enough to submit to a higher power and in reality many of us do not want to do that, or think we are just too "smart" to even believe.  

I've never understood how being proud can be a sin.  Thieving is a sin.  Murder is a sin.  Pride?  Seriously?

Submitting to someone or thing more powerful than yourself makes you humble?  I can't understand that one either.  Sounds like the kind of thing some "authority" figure would claim.   The kind of person who says "do as I say boy".  It's just authoritarian nonsense.  

It was when I started to think that God started to disappear, not for any other reason.  It just so happens that there is also a lot of unpleasantness, shall we say, in Christianity, but that wasn't the root cause of why I discarded it.  It's just the simple truth that did that.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

Thunder does occur when frequencies become out of tune by lower frequency entities.  Emotions cause weather.

lol

YES. Thank you so much. I think the exact same things whenever I hear someone say something like this. Does this not sound anything like opression? "You should obey me because I'm better" Where did that get us? I'll tell you where it got us: tyranny. It's the beginnings of controlling an entire society. I think of George Orwell's 1982, a society in which everyone just obeys the authority because nobody even thinks of the possiblity that maybe they don't have to obey. Trying to say that being proud or considering that we COULD be "smarter" than God, or at least be smart enough to believe that there ISN'T a God is a SIN?! Can't you see? Most religions are trying to control people to do as they say. I think that many of the things religions encourage (such as charity, treating others with respect, etc.) are good things, but being an atheist doesn't mean I don't do those things too! However, what I don't support is the control, the ABSOLUTE stranglehold they have on SO MANY people. It's ridiculous.

[termhn]

As for the initial question.  Yes, life is largely pointless.  Sorry, that's just the way it is.  The only point of your existence is to pass your genes on.

That doesn't make life any less enjoyable for this atheist.  I can have fun, care for my family and friends, learn about the world, etc.  All these things and more bring me enjoyment.   I really don't see a need for believing what is more than likely a fantasy and wasting countless hours of my precious life sitting in a pew.

Life is about the journey.   Enjoy the journey, don't worry about getting to the destination because it's non-existence, the same as before you were born. 

Oh my god (or maybe, no god) dude, you steal the words that I've been telling people right out of my mouth. I agree with you 100%.

[Vod]

It was when I started to think that God started to disappear, not for any other reason.  It just so happens that there is also a lot of unpleasantness, shall we say, in Christianity, but that wasn't the root cause of why I discarded it.  It's just the simple truth that did that.

I think that's true for the majority of us that were brainwashed at a young age but grew out of it. 

I always feel sorry for those that don't bother to look beyond the bible - the universe has so much to offer.   

[pliznau]

Did you know that Lucifer had done humanity the greatest good deed in all history. Because he tricked Eva to eat from that apple with Adam.he opened their eyes and so free will was born and now people can choose to believe with their hearts in god(that's what god wants not the christian religion)  or whatever we would like do believe in. The sheep will always stay with a false shepard because without him they think that they will be lost. But no. Them you will find yourselves. If anyone thinks that god really exists then belive in him! Not in a god damn business or political schemes that christianity is. Believe in every thing you want with your heart not in shit made up by people for crowd control.       

[Strange Vlad]

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Sorry, I didn't read the thread.

But yes, our lives are totally pointless and meaningless.  So what?  Just follow your instincts and try to have as much pleasure as possible.  That's it, really.

An old wise man once asked a young boy: "Do you know why are we all living on this planet?"
"We are just hanging around to waste our time, you know" — answered the boy, without stopping to play with his smartphone.

[pliznau]

Why do we live? Because god wants to? We mad god. Not the other way around. Our minds can't comprehend the begining of the univers so we just found refuge in god saying that he made us. But first of all the idea of god is surrounded by crowd manipulation and making money(at least in my country). 

[ronimacarroni]

A little kid gets sea monkey eggs and puts them in a waterbowl.
The sea monkeys grow and then become an advance civilization.
A sea monkey asks a sea monkey scientists question on how their world works.
The sea monkey asks. Sea monkey scientist what is this world made of?
The monkey scientist answers, its made out of water (H20)
The sea monkey then asks. Sea monkey scientist, what is our food made of?
The sea monkey scientist answer, its made out yeast.
The sea monkey then asks. Sea monkey scientist where did we come from.
The sea monkey scientist then says. This bowl.

[RodeoX]

How could a caveman look up at the stars and not invent God? People want an explanation more than they want the truth. IMO, that is why God is still going strong even though we know it is mythology.

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

I know I will probably not make many friends here with that verse!  But before you shoot me down just remember that I did not write it.  Just quoting it. 

You are just quoting a book. There is not the least shred of evidence for the bible being anything more. It's a good book. The rules laid out by the Roman government in the bible contain a lot of wisdom about how to treat each other, but alas, so do a lot of other books.
I think if you read other ancient texts you will find that the bible is in no way unique.

[BitChick]

How could a caveman look up at the stars and not invent God? People want an explanation more than they want the truth. IMO, that is why God is still going strong even though we know it is mythology.

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

I know I will probably not make many friends here with that verse!  But before you shoot me down just remember that I did not write it.  Just quoting it. 

This is the kind of thing I do NOT understand AT ALL! You are trying to prove that your standpoint is correct by quoting something FROM YOUR STANDPOINT'S BELIEFS. That makes no sense! That only proves anything if it was ABSOLUTELY FACT, and not only fact because YOU believe in it!

I get that.  It is just that I have found that the Bible is like a sword that cuts to the heart and convicts us.  I know this from personal experience.  Every time I read it I am like "Wow.  I really need help in that area."  So I put a verse up here.  Some people will laugh, ignore or get VERY angry. (Hence my disclaimers) But it is very interesting that David wrote this.  It seems more relevant now.  I guess there were people even a few thousand years ago saying, "There is no God." 

[RodeoX]

I get that.  It is just that I have found that the Bible is like a sword that cuts to the heart and convicts us.  I know this from personal experience.  Every time I read it I am like "Wow.  I really need help in that area."  So I put a verse up here.  Some people will laugh, ignore or get VERY angry. (Hence my disclaimers) But it is very interesting that David wrote this.  It seems more relevant now.  I guess there were people even a few thousand years ago saying, "There is no God." 

I think there is great wisdom in the Bible and that it helps a lot of people. Ideas like "the golden rule" make sense across cultures and time. The Bible even has practical knowledge such as avoiding eating shellfish. Shellfish are prone to red tide contamination and in ancient times would have been risky to eat.
For me atheism has nothing to do with the Bible. It is Gods utter absence outside of the heads of believers.   

[the joint]

How could a caveman look up at the stars and not invent God? People want an explanation more than they want the truth. IMO, that is why God is still going strong even though we know it is mythology.

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

I know I will probably not make many friends here with that verse!  But before you shoot me down just remember that I did not write it.  Just quoting it. 

This is the kind of thing I do NOT understand AT ALL! You are trying to prove that your standpoint is correct by quoting something FROM YOUR STANDPOINT'S BELIEFS. That makes no sense! That only proves anything if it was ABSOLUTELY FACT, and not only fact because YOU believe in it!

Circular reference, though unsound, does not make an argument invalid.

A: My logic is sound.
B: How do you know?
A: Sound logic indicates that it is sound.

[BitChick]

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

OK.  I will give you that.  But as far as having a simple faith and believing in God, they may have been less "foolish" than so many are now.  The most dangerous sin of all is pride. Pride is what makes us think we know more than God or don't even need God and I think it is as the root of what causes many people to want to believe in Atheism.  Otherwise they would have to be humble enough to submit to a higher power and in reality many of us do not want to do that, or think we are just too "smart" to even believe.  

I've never understood how being proud can be a sin.  Thieving is a sin.  Murder is a sin.  Pride?  Seriously?

Submitting to someone or thing more powerful than yourself makes you humble?  I can't understand that one either.  Sounds like the kind of thing some "authority" figure would claim.   The kind of person who says "do as I say boy".  It's just authoritarian nonsense.  

It was when I started to think that God started to disappear, not for any other reason.  It just so happens that there is also a lot of unpleasantness, shall we say, in Christianity, but that wasn't the root cause of why I discarded it.  It's just the simple truth that did that.

Pride is what keeps people from a relationship with God.  It makes people think things like, "There is no God.  I don't need God.  I have the power in me.  I am fine without God" and so on.

If someone is proud they will never attempt to even try to know God.  They will not crack open the Bible.  They will not pray or realize that they even have any sin at all. Hence why it is dangerous.

And is there a bunch of "unpleasantness in Christianity" YES!  But that is the fault of humans using the Bible in a way they should not.  It is the pride and arrogance that leads to that.  It is not God's will.  

God is love!  If we have no love, we are NOTHING!  Love your neighbor as yourself.  That is pretty much the point of the Bible (specifically the New Testament) and people take it WAY off track!  

[hawkeye]

God is love!  If we have no love, we are NOTHING!  Love your neighbor as yourself.  That is pretty much the point of the Bible (specifically the New Testament) and people take it WAY off track!  

You are perfectly capable of loving someone without God.   

In fact, if you claim that God is love, an entity you really have no intimate knowledge of, then I would question if you truly know what love is.

I look at humanity and see that we are all equal.  That no-one has rights above anyone else and we should all respect each other's rights and do our best to help and get along with each other in what can be at many times a quite difficult existence.  There's no point in people making each other's lives more difficult.  You reap what you sow in this world.  I've seen that over and over and over again.  That's why I'm of the libertarian/anarchist persuasion and I have no respect for any claimed authority whether it be earthbound or godly.

[termhn]

Perhaps the caveman were smarter or at least wiser than we are today?  They looked up to the stars and realized that there must be someone greater then they were.

They also thought the sun revolved around the Earth.   And the thunder was when God was angry.  etc, etc...

OK.  I will give you that.  But as far as having a simple faith and believing in God, they may have been less "foolish" than so many are now.  The most dangerous sin of all is pride. Pride is what makes us think we know more than God or don't even need God and I think it is as the root of what causes many people to want to believe in Atheism.  Otherwise they would have to be humble enough to submit to a higher power and in reality many of us do not want to do that, or think we are just too "smart" to even believe.  

I've never understood how being proud can be a sin.  Thieving is a sin.  Murder is a sin.  Pride?  Seriously?

Submitting to someone or thing more powerful than yourself makes you humble?  I can't understand that one either.  Sounds like the kind of thing some "authority" figure would claim.   The kind of person who says "do as I say boy".  It's just authoritarian nonsense.  

It was when I started to think that God started to disappear, not for any other reason.  It just so happens that there is also a lot of unpleasantness, shall we say, in Christianity, but that wasn't the root cause of why I discarded it.  It's just the simple truth that did that.

Pride is what keeps people from a relationship with God.  It makes people think things like, "There is no God.  I don't need God.  I have the power in me.  I am fine without God" and so on.

If someone is proud they will never attempt to even try to know God.  They will not crack open the Bible.  They will not pray or realize that they even have any sin at all. Hence why it is dangerous.

And is there a bunch of "unpleasantness in Christianity" YES!  But that is the fault of humans using the Bible in a way they should not.  It is the pride and arrogance that leads to that.  It is not God's will.  

God is love!  If we have no love, we are NOTHING!  Love your neighbor as yourself.  That is pretty much the point of the Bible (specifically the New Testament) and people take it WAY off track!  

I have been raised a Christian. I attend a catholic Jesuit highschool. I am studying the bible in scripture class right now. and yet, I am still "proud" as you put it. Before I was maybe ten I didn't even think about the possibility that there was no god because that is all I knew, but now I am an atheist. So many religious people think that all atheists are atheists only because they have never attempted to seek god or a relationship sith god but that is not true at all.

[dank]

God is love!  If we have no love, we are NOTHING!  Love your neighbor as yourself.  That is pretty much the point of the Bible (specifically the New Testament) and people take it WAY off track!  

You are perfectly capable of loving someone without God.   

In fact, if you claim that God is love, an entity you really have no intimate knowledge of, then I would question if you truly know what love is.

I look at humanity and see that we are all equal.  That no-one has rights above anyone else and we should all respect each other's rights and do our best to help and get along with each other in what can be at many times a quite difficult existence.  There's no point in people making each other's lives more difficult.  You reap what you sow in this world.  I've seen that over and over and over again.  That's why I'm of the libertarian/anarchist persuasion and I have no respect for any claimed authority whether it be earthbound or godly.

I'll answer that question.  Love is the purest form of energy, it is the substance of the universe, the foam of consciousness that unites and entangles our world as we know it.  Love, god, consciousness, are all one.

How could you love someone without expressing godlike characteristics of unity, love, compassion etc?  You need god to love because god is a concept of love, and that's all our universe is.

It looks to me you are very close to god in your views, for you believe in equality, nature and karma, both of which equate to god, why not believe in god, everything, the universe together as one being?

[termhn]

God is love!  If we have no love, we are NOTHING!  Love your neighbor as yourself.  That is pretty much the point of the Bible (specifically the New Testament) and people take it WAY off track!  

You are perfectly capable of loving someone without God.   

In fact, if you claim that God is love, an entity you really have no intimate knowledge of, then I would question if you truly know what love is.

I look at humanity and see that we are all equal.  That no-one has rights above anyone else and we should all respect each other's rights and do our best to help and get along with each other in what can be at many times a quite difficult existence.  There's no point in people making each other's lives more difficult.  You reap what you sow in this world.  I've seen that over and over and over again.  That's why I'm of the libertarian/anarchist persuasion and I have no respect for any claimed authority whether it be earthbound or godly.

I'll answer that question.  Love is the purest form of energy, it is the substance of the universe, the foam of consciousness that unites and entangles our world as we know it.  Love, god, consciousness, are all one.

How could you love someone without expressing godlike characteristics of unity, love, compassion etc?  You need god to love because god is a concept of love, and that's all our universe is.

It looks to me you are very close to god in your views, for you believe in equality, nature and karma, both of which equate to god, why not believe in god, everything, the universe together as one being?

Because you DON'T need to believe in god to love someone. You can express characteristics of unity, love, compassion without labeling them as "godlike" either. They are only godlike if there is a god. If there isn't, then they are just good characteristics.

[RodeoX]

I don't know why believers think that non-believers do not understand concepts like love, or that they are secretly unhappy. I love people, life, nature. And in fact I'm happier and filled with more love than most people I meet. Atheism is not a lack of morality and joy, rather a lack of belief in a god.
I try to be as kind and truthful as I can, to help those who are less fortunate, and to spread joy while ending suffering. These things are not because of a god. These are basic human feelings that are shared by people of all religions and atheists.
The reason why I don't believe in a god is the same reason I don't believe in Santa Clause. There is not a single shred of evidence for it. Until someone can address that, I can't imagine not being an atheist.

[BitChick]

I don't know why believers think that non-believers do not understand concepts like love, or that they are secretly unhappy. I love people, life, nature. And in fact I'm happier and filled with more love than most people I meet. Atheism is not a lack of morality and joy, rather a lack of belief in a god.
I try to be as kind and truthful as I can, to help those who are less fortunate, and to spread joy while ending suffering. These things are not because of a god. These are basic human feelings that are shared by people of all religions and atheists.
The reason why I don't believe in a god is the same reason I don't believe in Santa Clause. There is not a single shred of evidence for it. Until someone can address that, I can't imagine not being an atheist.

It is not that we do not think the non-believers do not understand love, or are even unhappy.  Quite the contrary.  I believe that many people are wildly happy and do love (often more so than many that call themselves Christians unfortunately)  The problem is the concept of where the "good things in life" or Love even comes from.  And what is love?

Every good and perfect gift comes from God.  God is love.  God created love.  So the problem lies more in the fact that non-believers do not understand where the good things in life comes from and God does not get the credit due for that.  Basically He is behind the scenes giving great blessings and putting love in our hearts and we just ignore Him, say we do not need Him or say He is not relevant or important.  We have this crazy idea that we could exist, or love each other without Him.  How would that even be possible if He IS Love???