The problem with atheism.

[Rassah]

The Romans were MUCH further developed in their reasoning given their environment, tools, and timing.  Jesus came about after the empire fell. When we hit the dark ages. When illiteracy was rampent. When reason couldn't flourish.

I think your time may be a bit off. Jesus was around during the Roman Empire. It fell about 300 or 400 years later, just because empires fall, but the subsequent fallout, combined with extreme religiosity and fanaticism of the new religion's followers (that being Christianity) was what brought on the Dark Ages. Would we have had the Dark Ages without Christianity? I don't know. We may have reverted to some other form of mysticism. But Christianity definitely didn't make things any better.

[BitChick]

Jesus was our ultimate sacrifice for our sins so the animal sacrifices are not necessary anymore thankfully!

Why would animal sacrifices ever be necessary? At what point in time is paying tribute in someone/something else's blood is OK?

Hey.  I am not God so I don't understand all the reasons why shed blood was necessary for forgiveness of sins.  I think perhaps it was to show the severity of sin and how it caused pain?  Regardless, that is the price that was to be paid.  Perhaps the eye for an eye or tooth for tooth teaching comes into play?  If someone kills someone then the justice for that crime would be death.  If someone else then came along and offered to stand in for the crime then justice would be served.

Regardless, Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice for us so that animal sacrifices were no longer necessary.  We have the choice to thank Him for that and accept the payment for our sins or we can reject or ignore Him.  I am eternally grateful for this!  It is hard for me to understand how other people, if they really think about it, cannot even see how this could be such a huge gift God has given us.  But if they think it is all fairy-tales and made up and do not believe God even exists I guess then it does not mean anything to them.

[Rassah]

If someone kills someone then the justice for that crime would be death.  If someone else then came along and offered to stand in for the crime then justice would be served.

Do you actually believe this? Let's say your next door neighbor killed you mom or your child. Would you be ok with someone else taking the death penalty for him, while your neighbor continued to live right next to you, "exhonorated" from his deeds?
This "scapegoating" phenomenon that came out of that time never really made sense to me.

Regardless, Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice for us so that animal sacrifices were no longer necessary. 

That's not regardless, that still implies that at one point they were necessary. And it really seems silly now. (and that's the nicest way I can put it)

We have the choice to thank Him for that and accept the payment for our sins or we can reject or ignore Him.

Or we can just agree that murdering people and animals as an offering or for scapegoating was just a stupid idea to begin with, regardless of who came up with it. Now, if God was actually coming down to earth for burgers every couple of months, then yeah, I'd understand.

[theonewhowaskazu]

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Just what the heck. I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. How is attempting to pleasure oneself and keep oneself from pain - something all living beings are naturally wired to do - the same as believing in a made-up god? What exactly is your delusion in wanting to survive? I have no idea what the rest of this thread is about, but the randommest post of all is the one smack at the beginning.

[BitChick]

If someone kills someone then the justice for that crime would be death.  If someone else then came along and offered to stand in for the crime then justice would be served.

Do you actually believe this? Let's say your next door neighbor killed you mom or your child. Would you be ok with someone else taking the death penalty for him, while your neighbor continued to live right next to you, "exhonorated" from his deeds?
This "scapegoating" phenomenon that came out of that time never really made sense to me.

I get that.  Would someone dying because they murdered solve the problem? Then two people are dead.  But if there was no penalty for crimes then people would just continue to murder so there needs to be some payment for it.  Are you of the notion that there should be no price paid for crimes committed?  Should we all just be allowed to do whatever we want without any consequences at all?  I would think a true atheist view point would be a "survival of the fittest" mentality so morality is more of a cultural thing and the consequences are a result of what society says should be the penalty for crime instead of a moral code that goes above what the society says is "right and wrong."

[Rassah]

If someone kills someone then the justice for that crime would be death.  If someone else then came along and offered to stand in for the crime then justice would be served.

Do you actually believe this? Let's say your next door neighbor killed you mom or your child. Would you be ok with someone else taking the death penalty for him, while your neighbor continued to live right next to you, "exhonorated" from his deeds?
This "scapegoating" phenomenon that came out of that time never really made sense to me.

I get that.  Would someone dying because they murdered solve the problem? Then two people are dead.  But if there was no penalty for crimes then people would just continue to murder so there needs to be some payment for it.

Then the question bbecomes, how is someone else duying in his stead a "penalty" for the murderer? And doesn't that make everyone who kills the person in the murdered's stead murderers themselves? They would be killing an innocent person, regardless if it was as a pennance for someone else's sin/crime.

Are you of the notion that there should be no price paid for crimes committed? 

Of course not. I'm of the notion that whoever dealt it, smelt i.. I mean should take the blame and responsibility for it. That's the only fair way of handling it, and the only real way of preventing them from doing it again. Can you imagine if others can be "sacraficed" to attone for a murdere's sin? If I was a murderer with the intent to kill, that would mean I could be TWICE as productive, simply by killing one person and having another one killed for me every time!

I would think a true atheist view point would be a "survival of the fittest" mentality so morality is more of a cultural thing and the consequences are a result of what society says should be the penalty for crime instead of a moral code that goes above what the society says is "right and wrong."

Actually, if you're thinking "biology" and "evolution," it's more of a survival of the species, not of the individuals. Survival of the fittest doesn't work if it's just within the species itself. You'd end up with barely anyone left to reproduce. So atheists fully recognize that we as humans survive as a social species, with social responsibilities and such. That whole golden rule thing still applies. But since we can't rely on god's word as absolute, we have to figure out what is moral from our own more logical perspective. That's where weird things like Non-Aggression Principle, Gay rights, and Women's rights comes from (despite society and religion often fighting very hard against it because of their scripture)

[the joint]

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Just what the heck. I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. How is attempting to pleasure oneself and keep oneself from pain - something all living beings are naturally wired to do - the same as believing in a made-up god? What exactly is your delusion in wanting to survive? I have no idea what the rest of this thread is about, but the randommest post of all is the one smack at the beginning.

I've bolded one of his primary assumptions, and this is generally a key atheist assumption in general.  The Universe is viewed as chaotic and devoid of all meaning outside of our individual opinions, and this is because it is assumed there is no god or Universal consciousness that self-evidently makes everything meaningful.  He has simply chosen to be consistent based upon his assumption in concluding that his survival is meaningless.  If you believe his assumption, you would also reach the same conclusion.

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to survive.  But if you really think the Universe is inherently meaningless, then you must realize your assumption leads to the conclusion that there's no logical reason why it's better for you or for anything else to survive.  There's no logical reason to do 'good' things for yourself or anyone else, and there's no reason why it wouldn't be just fine to kill yourself.  Under this view, there is no such thing as objective morality, and thus no objective good and bad.  It's all about opinions and that's all it ever could be about.  The fact that you're "wired" to avoid pain doesn't imply it's good to do so. 

The fact that atheists still, on the whole, want good things to happen to themselves and to other people is an often-overlooked leap of faith.  Specifically, it's having faith that 'goodness' not only exists, but that it perpetuates itself.  But again, carrying the assumption that the Universe is inherently meaningless, there's no logical reason to want good things to happen to yourself or others.

[theonewhowaskazu]

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Just what the heck. I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. How is attempting to pleasure oneself and keep oneself from pain - something all living beings are naturally wired to do - the same as believing in a made-up god? What exactly is your delusion in wanting to survive? I have no idea what the rest of this thread is about, but the randommest post of all is the one smack at the beginning.

I've bolded one of his primary assumptions, and this is generally a key atheist assumption in general.  The Universe is viewed as chaotic and devoid of all meaning outside of our individual opinions, and this is because it is assumed there is no god or Universal consciousness that self-evidently makes everything meaningful.  He has simply chosen to be consistent based upon his assumption in concluding that his survival is meaningless.  If you believe his assumption, you would also reach the same conclusion.

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to survive.  But if you really think the Universe is inherently meaningless, then you must realize your assumption leads to the conclusion that there's no logical reason why it's better for you or for anything else to survive.  There's no logical reason to do 'good' things for yourself or anyone else, and there's no reason why it wouldn't be just fine to kill yourself.  Under this view, there is no such thing as objective morality, and thus no objective good and bad.  It's all about opinions and that's all it ever could be about.  The fact that you're "wired" to avoid pain doesn't imply it's good to do so. 

The fact that atheists still, on the whole, want good things to happen to themselves and to other people is an often-overlooked leap of faith.  Specifically, it's having faith that 'goodness' not only exists, but that it perpetuates itself.  But again, carrying the assumption that the Universe is inherently meaningless, there's no logical reason to want good things to happen to yourself or others.

Ok, if the universe is devoid of meaning, then what isn't devoid of meaning?

Stuff matters to me, when it affects me, because I care about me, because I have been trained to care about me, because whenever I care about me I experience pleasure, and whenever I don't care about me then I experience pain. Since the universe affects me, it matters to me, regardless of how chaotic it is; thus, it is meaningful to me (and all other human beings).

[the joint]

Let me start by making it clear that I am an atheist.

The problem I have with the atheist agenda is that is stops at 'the non existence of God' - the same logic is not applied consistently to the whole of the human condition.

If I examine my life and use this same 'spaghetti monster' logic, I am drawn to the same conclusions about all my actions and activities - they are all as equally pointless and irrational as worshiping God.

If I rationally examine my sense of self I realize that it is just a genetic innovation - it encourages self preservation - genetic selfishness creates a genetically induced illusion of self worth.

My desire to survive is itself as delusional as a belief in God - pain and my fear of pain are a genetically induced survival mechanism I am in thrall to.

If I believe in God and survive then it is no different to not believing in God and surviving - nature will select for survival.

But my actual survival is meaningless whether I believe in God or otherwise.

This is the only conclusion that can be logically formed from a real examination of life.

Atheism is merely another tribal display - a peacock's tail trying to attract a mate through a verbal display of intelligence.

Just what the heck. I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. How is attempting to pleasure oneself and keep oneself from pain - something all living beings are naturally wired to do - the same as believing in a made-up god? What exactly is your delusion in wanting to survive? I have no idea what the rest of this thread is about, but the randommest post of all is the one smack at the beginning.

I've bolded one of his primary assumptions, and this is generally a key atheist assumption in general.  The Universe is viewed as chaotic and devoid of all meaning outside of our individual opinions, and this is because it is assumed there is no god or Universal consciousness that self-evidently makes everything meaningful.  He has simply chosen to be consistent based upon his assumption in concluding that his survival is meaningless.  If you believe his assumption, you would also reach the same conclusion.

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to survive.  But if you really think the Universe is inherently meaningless, then you must realize your assumption leads to the conclusion that there's no logical reason why it's better for you or for anything else to survive.  There's no logical reason to do 'good' things for yourself or anyone else, and there's no reason why it wouldn't be just fine to kill yourself.  Under this view, there is no such thing as objective morality, and thus no objective good and bad.  It's all about opinions and that's all it ever could be about.  The fact that you're "wired" to avoid pain doesn't imply it's good to do so. 

The fact that atheists still, on the whole, want good things to happen to themselves and to other people is an often-overlooked leap of faith.  Specifically, it's having faith that 'goodness' not only exists, but that it perpetuates itself.  But again, carrying the assumption that the Universe is inherently meaningless, there's no logical reason to want good things to happen to yourself or others.

Ok, if the universe is devoid of meaning, then what isn't devoid of meaning?

Stuff matters to me, when it affects me, because I care about me, because I have been trained to care about me, because whenever I care about me I experience pleasure, and whenever I don't care about me then I experience pain. Since the universe affects me, it matters to me, regardless of how chaotic it is; thus, it is meaningful to me (and all other human beings).

I don't believe the Universe is devoid of meaning.

[hawkeye]

So children today do not suffer for the mistakes of the parents?  I am sure the same thing happened then.  Were the kids cast directly into hell for that?  I don't necessarily believe that.  All of us are judged according to what we do though.

Many people today have turned their backs on God.  You can think of Him however you like but I believe He is good, loving, forgiving and cares deeply for all of us.  But at the same time He is God and is to be feared and revered.  There will come a day when He decided to remove His hand and allow the world to suffer again, just like He did with Noah.  If you read the Biblical account the few that feared Him were saved.  It seems wise to be on His side. 

You can believe what you like about God.  Your own evidence, the bible, proves otherwise.  I say, thank God that God doesn't exist.  Pun intended.  For someone that petty, arbitrary and evil to exist and be all powerful would truly be a scary situation for humanity to be in. 

[BitChick]

So children today do not suffer for the mistakes of the parents?  I am sure the same thing happened then.  Were the kids cast directly into hell for that?  I don't necessarily believe that.  All of us are judged according to what we do though.

Many people today have turned their backs on God.  You can think of Him however you like but I believe He is good, loving, forgiving and cares deeply for all of us.  But at the same time He is God and is to be feared and revered.  There will come a day when He decided to remove His hand and allow the world to suffer again, just like He did with Noah.  If you read the Biblical account the few that feared Him were saved.  It seems wise to be on His side. 

You can believe what you like about God.  Your own evidence, the bible, proves otherwise.  I say, thank God that God doesn't exist.  Pun intended.  For someone that petty, arbitrary and evil to exist and be all powerful would truly be a scary situation for humanity to be in. 

You think that he is petty, arbitrary and evil?

You say the Bible proves otherwise?  Here is just a few things that the Bible says about Him to me:

He created this beautiful world for us to live in. 
He created man and woman so that we could have relationships, even sex was a gift from God.
He cared deeply for His people.  He parted the red sea to help his people escape from slavery from the Egyptians and led the Israelites to the promise land he said He would give them.
He came as a child so He could understand us and feel the same feeling we feel as humans.
He was beaten, rejected, scorned and made fun of just to understand us. (He is still rejected)
He died a horrific death on the cross for our sins, out of great love for us.
He promised to prepare a place for those that accept Him with no more pain, sorrow or suffering.
He gives His Spirit to those that ask Him and His Spirit brings love, joy, peace,patience, gentleness, kindness and self-control
He takes hate from our hearts and puts love and forgiveness there instead.
And last, He will ultimately give Satan his due reward for all the pain and torment he has caused us on this earth.

Do you disregard these things He has done?  Is that really fair to Him?  He has given us far more than we deserve!

[hawkeye]

So children today do not suffer for the mistakes of the parents?  I am sure the same thing happened then.  Were the kids cast directly into hell for that?  I don't necessarily believe that.  All of us are judged according to what we do though.

Many people today have turned their backs on God.  You can think of Him however you like but I believe He is good, loving, forgiving and cares deeply for all of us.  But at the same time He is God and is to be feared and revered.  There will come a day when He decided to remove His hand and allow the world to suffer again, just like He did with Noah.  If you read the Biblical account the few that feared Him were saved.  It seems wise to be on His side.  

You can believe what you like about God.  Your own evidence, the bible, proves otherwise.  I say, thank God that God doesn't exist.  Pun intended.  For someone that petty, arbitrary and evil to exist and be all powerful would truly be a scary situation for humanity to be in.  

You think that he is petty, arbitrary and evil?

You say the Bible proves otherwise?  Here is just a few things that the Bible says about Him to me:

He created this beautiful world for us to live in.  
He created man and woman so that we could have relationships, even sex was a gift from God.
He cared deeply for His people.  He parted the red sea to help his people escape from slavery from the Egyptians and led the Israelites to the promise land he said He would give them.
He came as a child so He could understand us and feel the same feeling we feel as humans.
He was beaten, rejected, scorned and made fun of just to understand us. (He is still rejected)
He died a horrific death on the cross for our sins, out of great love for us.
He promised to prepare a place for those that accept Him with no more pain, sorrow or suffering.
He gives His Spirit to those that ask Him and His Spirit brings love, joy, peace,patience, gentleness, kindness and self-control
He takes hate from our hearts and puts love and forgiveness there instead.
And last, He will ultimately give Satan his due reward for all the pain and torment he has caused us on this earth.

Do you disregard these things He has done?  Is that really fair to Him?  He has given us far more than we deserve!

Even Hitler and Stalin did some good things in their lives.   They also said good things but didn't live up to them.

Words are meaningless in the final analysis.  Actions are what counts.  And God's behaviour speaks for itself regards of what he says.  

He knows the creating a world with limited resources will ensure that conflicts ensue.   This is well known.   And when bad things ensue from the decision that he made he then blames us for it.  The all-powerful God that could have given us a world of abundance.  That's why he's petty.  All the murders he's committed is why he's evil.  And anyone who is attempting to make you fear them?   Why would a good person want to make others fear them?

[BitChick]

So children today do not suffer for the mistakes of the parents?  I am sure the same thing happened then.  Were the kids cast directly into hell for that?  I don't necessarily believe that.  All of us are judged according to what we do though.

Many people today have turned their backs on God.  You can think of Him however you like but I believe He is good, loving, forgiving and cares deeply for all of us.  But at the same time He is God and is to be feared and revered.  There will come a day when He decided to remove His hand and allow the world to suffer again, just like He did with Noah.  If you read the Biblical account the few that feared Him were saved.  It seems wise to be on His side.  

You can believe what you like about God.  Your own evidence, the bible, proves otherwise.  I say, thank God that God doesn't exist.  Pun intended.  For someone that petty, arbitrary and evil to exist and be all powerful would truly be a scary situation for humanity to be in.  

You think that he is petty, arbitrary and evil?

You say the Bible proves otherwise?  Here is just a few things that the Bible says about Him to me:

He created this beautiful world for us to live in.  
He created man and woman so that we could have relationships, even sex was a gift from God.
He cared deeply for His people.  He parted the red sea to help his people escape from slavery from the Egyptians and led the Israelites to the promise land he said He would give them.
He came as a child so He could understand us and feel the same feeling we feel as humans.
He was beaten, rejected, scorned and made fun of just to understand us. (He is still rejected)
He died a horrific death on the cross for our sins, out of great love for us.
He promised to prepare a place for those that accept Him with no more pain, sorrow or suffering.
He gives His Spirit to those that ask Him and His Spirit brings love, joy, peace,patience, gentleness, kindness and self-control
He takes hate from our hearts and puts love and forgiveness there instead.
And last, He will ultimately give Satan his due reward for all the pain and torment he has caused us on this earth.

Do you disregard these things He has done?  Is that really fair to Him?  He has given us far more than we deserve!

Even Hitler and Stalin did some good things in their lives.   They also said good things but didn't live up to them.

Words are meaningless in the final analysis.  Actions are what counts.  And God's behaviour speaks for itself regards of what he says.  

He knows the creating a world with limited resources will ensure that conflicts ensue.   This is well known.   And when bad things ensue from the decision that he made he then blames us for it.  The all-powerful God that could have given us a world of abundance.  That's why he's petty.  All the murders he's committed is why he's evil.  And anyone who is attempting to make you fear them?   Why would a good person want to make others fear them?

What about our actions?  God did create a world with unlimited resources but we as humans messed it up and Satan does not get credit for any of the evil?  The "murders" were God's judgement and not arbitrary.  You may think so, but there was always a reason.  There is such a think as "righteous anger."  When the cries for justice reach Him from His people being mistreated, abused and so on His heart is moved with compassion and then He acts on it.  Hence why there were wars in the Old Testament.  He was protecting His people or bringing down judgement on the mistreatment of people.  In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah the Bible says that “The cries of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening; the sin of those cities is immense. I’m going down to see for myself, see if what they’re doing is as bad as it sounds."  Basically the cries of the victims cause God to move and to bring judgement down, in this case fire from heaven. 

The Bible says that the "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."  I think a healthy respect of God is a very wise thing. I fear Him but I know He loves me at the same time.  That is why the description of God as our Father is a good comparison.  A good father is one to be respected but is also one we can go to that will give us compassion and understanding. I am not sure why you have such a negative opinion of God? I guess we all have things in our life that cause us to question.  But I do feel like in regards to the Bible, many people pick and choose things that they want to and get an idea of who God is based on just a few select passages without getting the whole picture.

[hawkeye]

What about our actions?  God did create a world with unlimited resources but we as humans messed it up and Satan does not get credit for any of the evil?  The "murders" were God's judgement and not arbitrary.  You may think so, but there was always a reason.  There is such a think as "righteous anger."  When the cries for justice reach Him from His people being mistreated, abused and so on His heart is moved with compassion and then He acts on it.  Hence why there were wars in the Old Testament.  He was protecting His people or bringing down judgement on the mistreatment of people.  In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah the Bible says that “The cries of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening; the sin of those cities is immense. I’m going down to see for myself, see if what they’re doing is as bad as it sounds."  Basically the cries of the victims cause God to move and to bring judgement down, in this case fire from heaven. 

The Bible says that the "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."  I think a healthy respect of God is a very wise thing. I fear Him but I know He loves me at the same time.  That is why the description of God as our Father is a good comparison.  A good father is one to be respected but is also one we can go to that will give us compassion and understanding. I am not sure why you have such a negative opinion of God? I guess we all have things in our life that cause us to question.  But I do feel like in regards to the Bible, many people pick and choose things that they want to and get an idea of who God is based on just a few select passages without getting the whole picture.

Picking and choosing is exactly what Christians do.  Pick out the good bits, ignore the bad parts or justify them away.

Fear and respect are not the same thing.  You seem to be equating them here.  There are people in this world who I have much respect for, but I don't fear them.  If someone is trying to strike fear into me, I treat them with the contempt that they deserve.  If God was real, he would deserve my contempt because of his actions in this regard.

And father's have to earn respect.  Mine doesn't and he doesn't get any from me.  But my parents have tried to strike fear into me continually and they are contemptible people.  See how that works?

Politicians also try to strike fear into people and they deserve utter contempt likewise.

[BitChick]

What about our actions?  God did create a world with unlimited resources but we as humans messed it up and Satan does not get credit for any of the evil?  The "murders" were God's judgement and not arbitrary.  You may think so, but there was always a reason.  There is such a think as "righteous anger."  When the cries for justice reach Him from His people being mistreated, abused and so on His heart is moved with compassion and then He acts on it.  Hence why there were wars in the Old Testament.  He was protecting His people or bringing down judgement on the mistreatment of people.  In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah the Bible says that “The cries of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening; the sin of those cities is immense. I’m going down to see for myself, see if what they’re doing is as bad as it sounds."  Basically the cries of the victims cause God to move and to bring judgement down, in this case fire from heaven. 

The Bible says that the "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."  I think a healthy respect of God is a very wise thing. I fear Him but I know He loves me at the same time.  That is why the description of God as our Father is a good comparison.  A good father is one to be respected but is also one we can go to that will give us compassion and understanding. I am not sure why you have such a negative opinion of God? I guess we all have things in our life that cause us to question.  But I do feel like in regards to the Bible, many people pick and choose things that they want to and get an idea of who God is based on just a few select passages without getting the whole picture.

Picking and choosing is exactly what Christians do.  Pick out the good bits, ignore the bad parts or justify them away.

Fear and respect are not the same thing.  You seem to be equating them here.  There are people in this world who I have much respect for, but I don't fear them.  If someone is trying to strike fear into me, I treat them with the contempt that they deserve.  If God was real, he would deserve my contempt because of his actions in this regard.

And father's have to earn respect.  Mine doesn't and he doesn't get any from me.  But my parents have tried to strike fear into me continually and they are contemptible people.  See how that works?

Politicians also try to strike fear into people and they deserve utter contempt likewise.

I guess it is a matter of how you look at "fear" then.  I see it as a sincere reverence and humble respect of God and His position, not one in which I think He is going to strike me down just because He feels like it for no apparent reason.

Some Christians do pick and choose what they want to believe, you are right in that. Granted, there are things in the Bible that seem hard to understand.  However, when the context is understood then it is easier.  I know that when I read the Old Testament, for example, God seems more vengeful.  I just think the cultures in those days was more vicious and warlike.  There were tribes of people that were very heartless, like the Vikings lets say, and they were out to kill all other people groups without any concern for them.  Perhaps God knew that their hearts were corrupt and allowed for war?  That is just one example.

Seems to me like the wise thing to do in your case is to have a brutally honest discussion with God.  Tell Him directly why you don't think he is fair.  Tell Him why you don't think He is real.  He can handle it.  You might just be surprised how He answers you.

I was really upset with God several times in my life and that is what I did and His response surprised me.  Instead of responding in anger, which I expected, He responded in love and compassion.  I think what He wants more than anything is for us to come to Him in all honesty and just to let Him know our frustrations and true feelings.  It is not like He doesn't know how we feel anyways, but He is then able to meet us right where we are at.

Just my thoughts on all this.

[yogi]

@BitChick
The fact that your a Christian is an accident of your birth. If you were born in Tibet you'd be a Buddhist.

[Rassah]

Under this view, there is no such thing as objective morality, and thus no objective good and bad.  It's all about opinions and that's all it ever could be about.  The fact that you're "wired" to avoid pain doesn't imply it's good to do so. 

The fact that atheists still, on the whole, want good things to happen to themselves and to other people is an often-overlooked leap of faith.

I'm not sure how that follows. Atheists are writed to to avoid pain and stimulate pleasure centers, those things are directly influenced by their actions, which just happen to correlate with "good" and "bad"" (or, more correctly, opinions of what's good and what's bad are based on those stimulations), and thus atheists want good things to happen, simply because the are wired like that. Why does faith have to enter into this?

[Rassah]

even sex was a gift from God.

I thought sex, and the subsequent reproduction and childbirth, was a punishment from god for the original sin? If it was a gift, why would so many churches throughout history be so condemning of it?

[Mike Christ]

even sex was a gift from God.

I thought sex, and the subsequent reproduction and childbirth, was a punishment from god for the original sin? If it was a gift, why would so many churches throughout history be so condemning of it?

The trouble with objective morality: "My church doesn't like this, time to reinterpret God's word and invent a new church."  I believe there was a famous king of England who did this...

[BitChick]

even sex was a gift from God.

I thought sex, and the subsequent reproduction and childbirth, was a punishment from god for the original sin? If it was a gift, why would so many churches throughout history be so condemning of it?

I agree.  I think church is wrong in how they handle the topic of sex, especially the Catholic church it seems which almost seems to revere those who are celibate or don't have sex at all (such as priests and nuns.)  The Church likes to add things to scripture and that is where alot of the problems come from and hence why it is important to read the Bible for ourselves so we can know what is just traditions and what is really the truth.

The pain in childbirth?  Now that is a curse!  I can tell you that from first hand experience.  It is supernatural pain for sure! I was too late to the hospital for an epidural and had to give birth naturally to my youngest and it was pain from my head down to my toes and it was a really weird pain too.  Not fun!

That said, sex is a gift God gave us.  However, it can be twisted and used for really horrible things too: such as abuse, rape, etc.  That is not God's fault though.