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Author Topic: Bitcoin Shrinking - The Long View  (Read 17698 times)
ElectricMucus
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September 02, 2011, 06:28:33 PM
 #301

And recent history is replete with programmers hammering out code on dead end projects, nothing new.
This is true. In case of bitcoin it was particularly compounded by the fact that the various side projects are/were building wrappers around horribly bad central engine.

But the central idea still seems interesting. Even if it isn't completely innovative, it is/was an innovative combination of earlier ideas.

And no matter what will happen to Bitcoin itself, the education in scam detection and avoidance will have a lasting positive effect on many people. I would never expect that such a variety of emotions could be stirred by a piece of badly written C++ code.

Cryptocurrency is definitely interesting. I'm just disappointed Bitcoin had to be the first incarnation and that it achieved such popularity. It's a shame because the fact is that Bitcoin fucking sucks. It's poorly thought out, and horribly implemented.

It was a wonderful proof-of-concept, and would have made an EXCELLENT academic paper for some aspiring undergrad. However, becoming the fad phenomenon of a mockery of some new global alternative currency is purely the result of a bunch of poorly educated get-rich-quick maggots and the nature of open source software.

Cryptocurrency as a concept has been irreparably HARMED in the near term because of this shithole backwater project...

Of course, it has served its purpose in the darker seedier sides of transaction processing...I'm sure there's plenty of anon very happy that bitcoin has made purchasing child porn, scheduled drugs, and who knows what else, an easier reality for them...

But that doesn't really help the rest of us on the sane side of the global economy.
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I suggest anyone with a few braincells left ignore this troll

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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September 02, 2011, 06:30:35 PM
 #302

the sane side of the global economy.

That's a good one! Cheesy

Sane as in not wanting to pay to see children raped or murdered, etc...


I get it.  Pay Blackwater to do it using pallet loads of USD and close your eyes then, eh?  Or did you mean direct deposit to NATO troops bank accounts?

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September 02, 2011, 06:35:34 PM
 #303

Does the mention of the black market offend you all?

It's a fact that Bitcoin makes black-market transactions easier than cash. I'm not saying that's a failing of Bitcoin, the failing of bitcoin is that it's more viable for the black market than the white market...
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September 02, 2011, 06:53:44 PM
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Does the mention of the black market offend you all?

Nope.  The definition of black vs. white markets seem to shift around at the whims of those who can afford lobbyists.  As in, unless you are paying a %10000 markup on some medicine you need, it's 'black market.'

It's a fact that Bitcoin makes black-market transactions easier than cash. I'm not saying that's a failing of Bitcoin, the failing of bitcoin is that it's more viable for the black market than the white market...

I think BTC (based currency) would be highly viable for the 'white market' if there were a need.  USD works fine for me currently for most things.  If/when it stops being so, I wish to have an alternative.

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September 02, 2011, 07:14:28 PM
 #305

Does the mention of the black market offend you all?

Nope.  The definition of black vs. white markets seem to shift around at the whims of those who can afford lobbyists.  As in, unless you are paying a %10000 markup on some medicine you need, it's 'black market.'

It's a fact that Bitcoin makes black-market transactions easier than cash. I'm not saying that's a failing of Bitcoin, the failing of bitcoin is that it's more viable for the black market than the white market...

I think BTC (based currency) would be highly viable for the 'white market' if there were a need.  USD works fine for me currently for most things.  If/when it stops being so, I wish to have an alternative.


I'm curious, what things to USD not work well for?
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September 02, 2011, 07:32:52 PM
 #306

Does the mention of the black market offend you all?

Nope.  The definition of black vs. white markets seem to shift around at the whims of those who can afford lobbyists.  As in, unless you are paying a %10000 markup on some medicine you need, it's 'black market.'

It's a fact that Bitcoin makes black-market transactions easier than cash. I'm not saying that's a failing of Bitcoin, the failing of bitcoin is that it's more viable for the black market than the white market...

I think BTC (based currency) would be highly viable for the 'white market' if there were a need.  USD works fine for me currently for most things.  If/when it stops being so, I wish to have an alternative.


I'm curious, what things to USD not work well for?

You want _that_ as a freebie?  Don't hold your breath.


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September 02, 2011, 07:34:28 PM
 #307

Does the mention of the black market offend you all?

Nope.  The definition of black vs. white markets seem to shift around at the whims of those who can afford lobbyists.  As in, unless you are paying a %10000 markup on some medicine you need, it's 'black market.'

It's a fact that Bitcoin makes black-market transactions easier than cash. I'm not saying that's a failing of Bitcoin, the failing of bitcoin is that it's more viable for the black market than the white market...

I think BTC (based currency) would be highly viable for the 'white market' if there were a need.  USD works fine for me currently for most things.  If/when it stops being so, I wish to have an alternative.


I'm curious, what things to USD not work well for?

You want _that_ as a freebie?  Don't hold your breath.




Lol, what?

I just mean, I can't even imagine what it's more difficult for you to buy with USD, unless you're talking about black market goods....
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September 02, 2011, 08:08:55 PM
 #308

Well anyway, Bitcoin sucks, it has caused a lot of pain and strife, enriched a few undeserved shysters (and still is), and may very well to turn out to be written into the history books as a more modern example of the tulip craze or beanie babies.,,

As I've said, the sooner it dies, the better it will be for cryptocurrency in the future.
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September 02, 2011, 08:36:49 PM
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Well anyway, Bitcoin sucks, it has caused a lot of pain and strife, enriched a few undeserved shysters (and still is), and may very well to turn out to be written into the history books as a more modern example of the tulip craze or beanie babies.,,

As I've said, the sooner it dies, the better it will be for cryptocurrency in the future.

So then, what do you propose as an alternative... That could only be used in 'white' markets, and could not be used by shysters, etc?

I have an awesome idea for a blockchain system, but I'm certainly not going to post it here until I could protect it or release a full program.

Obviously you can't keep any currency out of a black market, and fools and their money will always be soon parted, but my chain completely obviates the potential for the rife abuse of centralized systems as we have with bitcoin and it's clones. As for white market viability, that would be the entire gearing of the system, and there are ingenious controls for economic accountability inherent to the chain. Bitcoin is just a proof-of-concept with no real economic forethought behind it.  The Satoshi entity might be adept at cryptographic systems, but it's economic comprehension is in severe arrears. Unless of course the entire point was to foster the pump and dump scam that it's become.

Also, this is my first post using my HP touchpad, and "bitcoin" auto-corrects to "buffoon," LOL...
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September 02, 2011, 08:57:23 PM
 #310

So then, what do you propose as an alternative...
Bitcoin is actually quite good. But it had bad fortune of attracting shysters from all walks of life. Bitcoin is the project about which its main architect Gavin Andresen wrote: we don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koIq58UoNfE

and about 1:25 into the clip.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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September 02, 2011, 09:03:54 PM
 #311

Well anyway, Bitcoin sucks, it has caused a lot of pain and strife, enriched a few undeserved shysters (and still is), and may very well to turn out to be written into the history books as a more modern example of the tulip craze or beanie babies.,,

As I've said, the sooner it dies, the better it will be for cryptocurrency in the future.

So then, what do you propose as an alternative... That could only be used in 'white' markets, and could not be used by shysters, etc?

I have an awesome idea for a blockchain system, but I'm certainly not going to post it here until I could protect it or release a full program.

Obviously you can't keep any currency out of a black market, and fools and their money will always be soon parted, but my chain completely obviates the potential for the rife abuse of centralized systems as we have with bitcoin and it's clones. As for white market viability, that would be the entire gearing of the system, and there are ingenious controls for economic accountability inherent to the chain. Bitcoin is just a proof-of-concept with no real economic forethought behind it.  The Satoshi entity might be adept at cryptographic systems, but it's economic comprehension is in severe arrears. Unless of course the entire point was to foster the pump and dump scam that it's become.

Also, this is my first post using my HP touchpad, and "bitcoin" auto-corrects to "buffoon," LOL...

We anxiously await your contribution to humanity.

Which will 99.9% never come to fruition.  There's no way for me to feasibly patent the ideas, and I really don't have the time or skill to code such a thing...

...tragic, I know.
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September 02, 2011, 09:05:47 PM
 #312

So then, what do you propose as an alternative...
Bitcoin is actually quite good. But it had bad fortune of attracting shysters from all walks of life. Bitcoin is the project about which its main architect Gavin Andresen wrote: we don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koIq58UoNfE

and about 1:25 into the clip.

Aside from the fact that it's based on strong cryptography, it's NOT quite good.  It's fucking ridiculous, really.

And the fact that they don't give a flying fuck about the wider community gearing adoption doesn't surprise me at all, because they're just amateurs anyhow.
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September 02, 2011, 09:10:04 PM
 #313

...
I'm curious, what things to USD not work well for?

You want _that_ as a freebie?  Don't hold your breath.


Lol, what?

I just mean, I can't even imagine what it's more difficult for you to buy with USD, unless you're talking about black market goods....
[/quote]

Pick anything with the following properties:

 1) Not physically within my ability to hand USD to, and

 2) anything where I would prefer to remain anonymous and not linked to.

Since I value remaining as link-less as possible, that pool of potential transactions is quite large.


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September 02, 2011, 09:15:34 PM
 #314

Well anyway, Bitcoin sucks, it has caused a lot of pain and strife, enriched a few undeserved shysters (and still is), and may very well to turn out to be written into the history books as a more modern example of the tulip craze or beanie babies.,,

As I've said, the sooner it dies, the better it will be for cryptocurrency in the future.

So then, what do you propose as an alternative... That could only be used in 'white' markets, and could not be used by shysters, etc?

I have an awesome idea for a blockchain system, but I'm certainly not going to post it here until I could protect it or release a full program.

Obviously you can't keep any currency out of a black market, and fools and their money will always be soon parted, but my chain completely obviates the potential for the rife abuse of centralized systems as we have with bitcoin and it's clones. As for white market viability, that would be the entire gearing of the system, and there are ingenious controls for economic accountability inherent to the chain. Bitcoin is just a proof-of-concept with no real economic forethought behind it.  The Satoshi entity might be adept at cryptographic systems, but it's economic comprehension is in severe arrears. Unless of course the entire point was to foster the pump and dump scam that it's become.

Also, this is my first post using my HP touchpad, and "bitcoin" auto-corrects to "buffoon," LOL...

We anxiously await your contribution to humanity.

Which will 99.9% never come to fruition.  There's no way for me to feasibly patent the ideas, and I really don't have the time or skill to code such a thing...

...tragic, I know.

What then, is the .1% of your vision that you think you can actually bring to fruition?

Showing users of bitcoin what fools they are?  Smiley
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September 02, 2011, 09:30:41 PM
 #315

About my blockchain idea:

Firstly, it's totally unlike these pathetic clones that have popped up of late. While my chain wouldn't be a complete rewrite, it would indeed be a substantial revision of the core functionality, not just some minor tweaks to what are completely arbitrary and asinine parameters of systemic functionality.

And there-in lies the quandary of ever bringing my idea to fruition. It's not easy work for me.  I'm just just a web-developer, I know very little about client applications written in compiled languages.

I considered releasing an .odf document with all of my ideas, but then I would receive absolutely nothing in return.

It's disappointing really, because it could potentially be a game-changer, and not just some fad.

Why would it be a game changer?  

Because it's everything a merchant would want from a payment processor, and still retain all the stuff the moon-bats like about cryptocurrencies too. As a merchant myself, I approached every systemic revision and addition from that perspective. So, it's inherently stable, fast, and available, as well as maintaining the ability to be pseudo-anonymous, and of course, decentralized and cryptographically secure.

In my system, the proof of work scheme is completely revised in a way that benefits everyone equally.  There is zero opportunity for there to be "early adopters" that control vast marketshare for little reason other than being there first.

Why? Because fuck them, that's why.  The rate of generation should be as close to 1:1 with the necessity of adoption as possible, and the block rewards are directly pegged to economic indicators.

That's about all the magic I'm willing to part with.  Maybe someone else could reflect on these ruminations and arrive at some of the same clever methods as I have, but the rest of my ideas I will keep to myself.

Sufficed to say, Bitcoin still sucks shit, and is in my mind irrecoverable as a viable cryptocurrency, and I'm enjoying watching it die as it and it's community deserve.
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September 02, 2011, 09:44:57 PM
 #316

In fact, I would be willing to create a website and publish all of my ideas if someone could explain all the relevant copyright and patent info to me that would allow me to publicly publish while still maintaining my rights over it.

I only care about the US market too, as I'm aware that the EU and surrounding countries are all mostly first-to-file, and I'm certainly not interested in going through the trouble of filing there.

If someone wants to work to assure me I could maintain my rights by publishing, or what steps I could take to publish and maintain rights in the US, that aren't expensive or complicated, I'd appreciate the help.

Otherwise, I'll be here under my bridge.
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September 02, 2011, 09:57:00 PM
 #317

About my blockchain idea:

Firstly, it's totally unlike these pathetic clones that have popped up of late. While my chain wouldn't be a complete rewrite, it would indeed be a substantial revision of the core functionality, not just some minor tweaks to what are completely arbitrary and asinine parameters of systemic functionality.

And there-in lies the quandary of ever bringing my idea to fruition. It's not easy work for me.  I'm just just a web-developer, I know very little about client applications written in compiled languages.

I considered releasing an .odf document with all of my ideas, but then I would receive absolutely nothing in return.

It's disappointing really, because it could potentially be a game-changer, and not just some fad.

Why would it be a game changer?  

Because it's everything a merchant would want from a payment processor, and still retain all the stuff the moon-bats like about cryptocurrencies too. As a merchant myself, I approached every systemic revision and addition from that perspective. So, it's inherently stable, fast, and available, as well as maintaining the ability to be pseudo-anonymous, and of course, decentralized and cryptographically secure.

In my system, the proof of work scheme is completely revised in a way that benefits everyone equally.  There is zero opportunity for there to be "early adopters" that control vast marketshare for little reason other than being there first.

Why? Because fuck them, that's why.  The rate of generation should be as close to 1:1 with the necessity of adoption as possible, and the block rewards are directly pegged to economic indicators.

That's about all the magic I'm willing to part with.  Maybe someone else could reflect on these ruminations and arrive at some of the same clever methods as I have, but the rest of my ideas I will keep to myself.

Sufficed to say, Bitcoin still sucks shit, and is in my mind irrecoverable as a viable cryptocurrency, and I'm enjoying watching it die as it and it's community deserve.

I hate to see all your ideas sit idle just because you don't know how to carry them through yourself. At some point you will need to open your ideas to peer review in order to carry them forward, if for no other reason than to allow others to solve some of the problems that you yourself to not possess the skills/knowledge to solve. It would seem that the primary stumbling block is your need for control. This is also seems to be reflected in your criticism of Bitcoin and its users as these are not things you can control.

I don't care about control, if I could be compensated for my idea I'd gladly sell it. I just want a somewhat proportional reward to what my innovation could enable, and the only avenue to that goal is controlling my intellectual property until some level of economic incentive can be reached.

I certainly don't need peer-review, as the idea is almost perfect in it's conception, based on the current and near future necessity and technological availability. The only issue that would need to be solved is the writing of actual code.

EDIT: Which btw, is of course the developers bane and in-joke; "I have an idea that's going to change the world, all I need is someone to program it for me. How about you do all the work for a 50% stake eh?"

I know this.

Which is why the idea will never come to fruition.
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September 02, 2011, 10:04:07 PM
 #318

In fact, I would be willing to create a website and publish all of my ideas if someone could explain all the relevant copyright and patent info to me that would allow me to publicly publish while still maintaining my rights over it.

I only care about the US market too, as I'm aware that the EU and surrounding countries are all mostly first-to-file, and I'm certainly not interested in going through the trouble of filing there.

If someone wants to work to assure me I could maintain my rights by publishing, or what steps I could take to publish and maintain rights in the US, that aren't expensive or complicated, I'd appreciate the help.

Otherwise, I'll be here under my bridge.

If you want something done but don't know how to do it, opensource is sometimes a decent way to accomplish the goal.  If your idea is totally great and solves a bunch of problems that you want solved, there is some chance that it will for others as well and it will be picked up and run with.  Then you get an awesome merchant friendly solution (rather than a lonely spot under your bridge.)  As a bonus, you will be know forever more as the father of the miracle of 'synapiccoin' and venture capital will probably be pounding down your door.  Win/win!

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September 02, 2011, 10:18:16 PM
 #319

In fact, I would be willing to create a website and publish all of my ideas if someone could explain all the relevant copyright and patent info to me that would allow me to publicly publish while still maintaining my rights over it.

I only care about the US market too, as I'm aware that the EU and surrounding countries are all mostly first-to-file, and I'm certainly not interested in going through the trouble of filing there.

If someone wants to work to assure me I could maintain my rights by publishing, or what steps I could take to publish and maintain rights in the US, that aren't expensive or complicated, I'd appreciate the help.

Otherwise, I'll be here under my bridge.

If you want something done but don't know how to do it, opensource is sometimes a decent way to accomplish the goal.  If your idea is totally great and solves a bunch of problems that you want solved, there is some chance that it will for others as well and it will be picked up and run with.  Then you get an awesome merchant friendly solution (rather than a lonely spot under your bridge.)  As a bonus, you will be know forever more as the father of the miracle of 'synapiccoin' and venture capital will probably be pounding down your door.  Win/win!


I don't think so.  I practically steal OSS code everyday in my line of work, without attribution, and I have zero qualms about it.  I love OSS< don't get me wrong. I believe it's an amazing ecosystem that drives real innovation.  But, it's not conducive to profits unless you have a system in place to capitalize on your code. Look at RedHat for example, or on a smaller scale, Magento e-commerce. They take seeds of OSS and build a support infrastructure around it, and become profitable. Most amateur OSS projects are not ever meant to be directly profitable by the code alone. Either there are benefits to allowing contribution (like a robust plug-in community, increasing adoption, and thus potential "enterprise" support contracts, or custom development, etc), or benefits to having attribution (a student or freelancer building a portfolio, etc. OSS is great free publicity).

My project would benefit from none of those things, or rather, my pocketbook wouldn't.  In my system, even the creator doesn't have the opportunity to exploit the "early adopter" loophole. Technically, I suppose I could write myself some value of coins as a "payment" for development, but that would be counter-productive to the egalitarian basis of the blockchain itself, and I have more integrity than that.

Fuck the Satoshi entity and all of it's little cock sucking cronies and "early adopter" ilk who think that simply being the first on the mining bandwagon should impart tremendous wealth, for what?

"Oh, that's their reward for bootstrapping the Bitcoin economy."

Piss off...

I do believe in compensation for work, but not in the Bitcoin fashion.  This whole ecosystem is sick, from balls to bones.
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September 02, 2011, 10:27:45 PM
 #320

I practically steal OSS code everyday in my line of work, without attribution, and I have zero qualms about it.

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I do believe in compensation for work
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