Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[RoadStress]

HF had $750k in assets, but they were out of cash.  The forced bankruptcy stopped those assets from being sold to pay refunds or leveraged to secure recapitalization.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?  Everyone else managed to comprehend this very straightforward course of events.

HF *DID NOT* and still *DOES NOT* have "the necessary money for the lawyers" you stupid fucking mountain of ignorance.  That's why the lawyers are, in desperation, now going after cypherdoc's sales commission.

Take your defamatory 'Evil HF could have paid refunds but chose to pay lawyers instead' meme and shove it.  It's a lie, and you know it's a lie.  Actually, it's a compound lie, composed of two separate falsehoods!

Is it asking too much for you to read the primary documents, and gain a working knowledge of the relevant facts, before you spout off with blatantly wrong pronouncements of absolute falsity?

HF was forced into bankruptcy because they weren't paying refunds/shipping miners. What stopped HF from selling those assets (that later they weren't able to sell because of the bankruptcy) BEFORE the bankruptcy in order to avoid it?

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[iCEBREAKER]

Is it asking too much for you to read the primary documents, and gain a working knowledge of the relevant facts, before you spout off with blatantly wrong pronouncements of absolute falsity?

HF was forced into bankruptcy because they weren't paying refunds/shipping miners. What stopped HF from selling those assets (that later they weren't able to sell because of the bankruptcy) BEFORE the bankruptcy in order to avoid it?

AFAIK HF was forced into bankruptcy so Koi/LiquidBits (aka the Edgeworths and Jabobsons) could buy the assets at firesale prices.  The attempt failed miserably, screwing the rest of us creditors in the process.

But good question anyway!  I'm glad you've started asking for information instead of asserting falsehoods.

Before being forced into a predictably futile bankruptcy, HF was "selling those assets" by shopping equity around to potential sources of recapitalization.

You should also know the assets in question were the raw materials (components) and IP needed to create/sell miners (and thus earn revenue to pay refunds).

The market for those assets is, as demonstrated by the spectacular failure of the bankruptcy auction, entirely illiquid.

[RoadStress]

AFAIK HF was forced into bankruptcy so Koi/LiquidBits (aka the Edgeworths and Jabobsons) could buy the assets at firesale prices.  The attempt failed miserably, screwing the rest of us creditors in the process.

But good question anyway!  I'm glad you've started asking for information instead of asserting falsehoods.

Before being forced into a predictably futile bankruptcy, HF was "selling those assets" by shopping equity around to potential sources of recapitalization.

You should also know the assets in question were the raw materials (components) and IP needed to create/sell miners (and thus earn revenue to pay refunds).

The market for those assets is, as demonstrated by the spectacular failure of the bankruptcy auction, entirely illiquid.

Ok that makes sense!

But no matter what you or the lawyers say HF will remain in history as a scamming, lying and lousy company instead of a high-tech start-up that simply failed. Period.

[iCEBREAKER]

no matter what you or the lawyers say HF will remain in history as a scamming, lying and lousy company instead of a high-tech start-up that simply failed. Period.

Of course Mistakes Were Made^® at HF.  That's normal and does not imply lack of best efforts (much less "scamming") no matter how ugly your fervent desire to defame those who (as confirmed by the bankruptcy court) tried their hardest to make it work.

If the price of BTC had stayed at $1k (or mooned to $10k), we HF customers would be sending them thank-you notes for the magical money-printing machines they made for us.

How is it HF's fault the price and difficulty diverged in a perfect storm that also took out Cointerra and AM (among others)?  Is Cointerra a scam also?  Isn't AM a confirmed scam?

Why don't you pester former Cointerra or Asicminer proponents like you do to me?  Is it because I had the temerity to push back against the popular lynch mob mentality/agenda, and you find that unforgivable?  How flattering!   

HF didn't make us place our bets on the big/fast/hot/immersion strategy.  We freely chose to do that.  Some of us hedged with small/slow/cool ASICs.

Anyway, it's not what the lawyers or I say that matters.  It's the facts, as established by the judicial record, that matter.

There is only one remaining case with the potential to find the CEO/CTO committed fraud, and its scope has already been narrowed.

If you aren't going to listen to what the judges/courts say, just because they disagree with your prejudgements, what does that say about you?  What makes you think your biased, under-informed opinion is more valid than the professional judges who are in possession of all the relevant facts, especially when you can't even be bothered to read the primary sources?

It sounds like you are saying nothing, not even facts, can convince you HF failed due to unfavorable business conditions.

Is that actually your position, that your mind is made up regardless of the truth?

Are you really telling us the courts are lying, unless they reach the same conclusions you have?

[Micky25]

no matter what you or the lawyers say HF will remain in history as a scamming, lying and lousy company instead of a high-tech start-up that simply failed. Period.

--- cut ---
If the price of BTC had stayed at $1k (or mooned to $10k), we HF customers would be sending them thank-you notes for the magical money-printing machines they made for us.
--- cut ---

I don't think so, in that case HF would probably have kept the miners for themselves, instead of delivering them to the customers. And I think thats exactly the point why everybody hates them, not necessarily the lost money, but the way they treated their customers and the distrust they caused. Instead of following their contractual obligations, like shipping upgrade kits or doing refunds, they put new miners up for sale.

[RoadStress]

Of course Mistakes Were Made^® at HF.  That's normal and does not imply lack of best efforts (much less "scamming") no matter how ugly your fervent desire to defame those who (as confirmed by the bankruptcy court) tried their hardest to make it work.

It is scamming when you promise October delivery and you receive chips in November!

It is scamming when an employee of yours promises that you can receive the same amount of BTC that you paid if they fail the on-time delivery!

How is it HF's fault the price and difficulty diverged in a perfect storm that also took out Cointerra and AM (among others)?  Is Cointerra a scam also?  Isn't AM a confirmed scam?

Why don't you pester former Cointerra or Asicminer proponents like you do to me?  Is it because I had the temerity to push back against the popular lynch mob mentality/agenda, and you find that unforgivable?  How flattering!   

Yes Cointerra is a scam!

AM isn't a scam. The party who suffered is only the company and its shareholders and it was by pure theft or malicious third-party (we still don't have any proof about anything regarding this)! Also it should be noted that the damage wasn't made by unrealistic/optimistic promises or by purely lies by the company towards its customers like in HashFail's case.

Oh I have pestered AM proponents worse than you. And CT didn't have any representative to lick their ass and eat their shit like HF had with you and cypherdoc so no fun in there.

HF didn't make us place our bets on the big/fast/hot/immersion strategy.  We freely chose to do that.  Some of us hedged with small/slow/cool ASICs.
Anyway, it's not what the lawyers or I say that matters.  It's the facts, as established by the judicial record, that matter.
There is only one remaining case with the potential to find the CEO/CTO committed fraud, and its scope has already been narrowed.
If you aren't going to listen to what the judges/courts say, just because they disagree with your prejudgements, what does that say about you?  What makes you think your biased, under-informed opinion is more valid than the professional judges who are in possession of all the relevant facts, especially when you can't even be bothered to read the primary sources?
It sounds like you are saying nothing, not even facts, can convince you HF failed due to unfavorable business conditions.
Is that actually your position, that your mind is made up regardless of the truth?
Are you really telling us the courts are lying, unless they reach the same conclusions you have?

HF only made you their humble shit eating dog. Nothing else! No matter how the company performed your only merit in this is that you took all their shit and you ate it and you will do it again if you had the chance!

[iCEBREAKER]

no matter what you or the lawyers say HF will remain in history as a scamming, lying and lousy company instead of a high-tech start-up that simply failed. Period.

--- cut ---
If the price of BTC had stayed at $1k (or mooned to $10k), we HF customers would be sending them thank-you notes for the magical money-printing machines they made for us.
--- cut ---

I don't think so, in that case HF would probably have kept the miners for themselves, instead of delivering them to the customers. And I think thats exactly the point why everybody hates them, not necessarily the lost money, but the way they treated their customers and the distrust they caused. Instead of following their contractual obligations, like shipping upgrade kits or doing refunds, they put new miners up for sale.

What you "think" is stupid and wrong.  HF couldn't have "probably kept the miners for themselves."  That's bullshit and you know it.  They'd be criminals.  And where would they put them?  Who would maintain them?

You hating imbeciles in the Hashfast Derangement Club already tried pushing the "zomg secret mining" canard, remember?  Then Eligius' poolop told everyone you were full of shit!  Watching you haters getting caught in a flat-out lie...that was hilarious!   

If business conditions had gone the other way, people would be throwing piles of money at every ASIC company available, especially one with proven 28nm masks at TSMC ready to go and a couple next-gen chips in the design pipeline.

You are just demonizing, based on nothing more than your paranoid projections of shitlording.

EG, HF was in the process of converting their MPP/upgrade obligations into raw chips (which they had in abundance).  They were forced by the bankruptcy to halt that process.

How many times does your imbecilic brain need to hear that fact before it registers?

[moredillon]

"If we don't have proof of them conscious ripping us off from the start."

The refund + 10% penalty made Bitmine a Ponzi scheme as soon as that
promise was made. On the assumption that this was mere incompetence
it became fraud as soon as they realized the problem. And if they want
to argue - I was posting these facts around May 2014 and they did not
stop trading until all (our) money was gone. Trading while insolvent is
a criminal offence here IIRC. The Swiss LEO does not want to know.
I get the feeling that governments only hammer bitcoin companies that
are trading successfully, but WTFDIK.

RE a class action :
A) Swiss law does not do class actions (from earlier posts)
B) Bitmine is already in bankruptcy
C) What does a google doc do?
 

I don't know, as I have never tried to take legal action on anyone, let alone some shady fucker halfway around the world. Is your situation still unresolved with this? Were you involved? It seems like no one is trying anymore. Like everyone gave up. What happened to http://www.bitminerefund.com/ or @bitminerefund on twitter, username gpufreak on bitcointalk. I want to hear from people that did take them to court, that did or did not find resolve through action. It is a surprisingly quiet scenario, considering how much money they screwed out of innocent hopeful trusting people.

It may be impossible to get money back from Bitmine, but I don't want to sit in silence when my wallet was raped by Bitmine AG's unapologetic faceless asshats. If I can't get any money back, I at least want to at least cause them more inconvenience in their life. I am not necessarily pursuing revenge, I want to dissuade bad people from doing bad things. Sounds like they got off scott free after running whatever the hell it was that they were doing.

Let's get this thread back on track here. Bitmine AG. Coincraft. Unpayed debts.

[elvizzzzzzz]

I'm somewhat surprised that the trail has gone cold. There should be some news about
the bankruptcy proceedings.

Is no-one else following this thread?

[moredillon]

It doesn't seem like anyone cares to follow this anymore. The victims are still out there. Maybe there is a chance to find a solution somewhere, and no one has put in the effort in the right way. Bitcointalk forum is a strange medium, a choosing a different platform to band together on and communicate through would be a good idea. A place where people could share their knowledge. Hopefully we can bring in people/someone who has either tried or succeeded in efforts to go after bitmine, or get a refund. Still curious what happened to the bitminerefund.com page? Did the squeaky oil get the grease?

[^.^]

I'd like to know if anyone has a copy of the website? Wouldn't mind getting my hands on drives/ISO images documents and stuff be useful for many people. I'll even host the thing free of charge.

[elvizzzzzzz]

"be useful for many people"

I do not see how use can be made of any of the Bitmine website stuff.
eg their 100% refund "guarantee" [images.jpg]

Unless, of course, a scam is in progress ...

[crocko]

revenge is a dish best served cold

[blanc1664]

Where's my refund?  As per your sales agreement you owe me a fuck ton of money.

[tvskit]

giorgiomassa

Where my refund?

[blanc1664]

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-mining-company-bitmine-facing-multiple-lawsuits-defrauding-customers/

[moredillon]

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-mining-company-bitmine-facing-multiple-lawsuits-defrauding-customers/

Interesting. I just found this article on my own, and I noticed there was a facebook thread going, linked at the end of the article, that now turns up empty/closed/deleted.

I wonder if the person(s) that ran that facebook group have a story they can tell, or if the person that ran bitminerefund.com can share their experience?

https://web.archive.org/web/20141223065838/http://www.bitminerefund.com/ is the last version I could find. I never took my own screenshots.

I hope it's not a 'squeaky wheel gets the grease' situation. I would hate to have to spin up a website or group page to get back my money.

Anyone else still lingering around wanting a refund? Anyone have a lead on a legal movement against them? Anyone have success on their own?

Should I make a google doc/form for this?

[Biomech]

giorgiomassa I'll rip your legs off. I'll kill your whole family of four bastards. ID 409 Karusov Evgeny

With a post like that, you must be a Christian.

Anyway, sarcasm aside, that's a bit over the top, don't you think?

[jeycreative]

For those still hoping to get there money,
There was 19.000 CHF left in the bank account of those scammers.
I spent 2.000 CHF on lawyer to force them to file bankruptcy.
So Today I got back 0=zip
Trial is still ongoing to try to recover the millions Bitmine injected in their Icelandic project...our money.

So you should forget about all this shitty story and focus on the future.
All the best
Jey

[swiss-miner]

For those still following the story, apparently one of the Bitmine founders, Christian Anselmi died in March 2019 https://www.todesanzeigenportal.ch/todesanzeige/Christian/Anselmi/

Karma?