ByteCoin Poll (PLZ Sticky)

[ahmed_bodi]

Right, as many people know i've been planning on working on fixing bytecoin by implementing a merged mining patch. As i can see im almost ready and will put it on testnet in a day or 2. I also have a pool ready which will have merged mining on the backend but i will auto-exchange daily and double up the block reward.
Now here comes you're part:

I would like people's opinion on the following:
1) The Merged Mining Patch
2) Changing the retarget structure so it retargets more frequently, (every 30 mins?)
3) When to hard fork?

[1715257567]

1715257567

[1715257567]

1715257567

[jdebunt]

1) YES!
2) it would be a good thing if you ask me
3) Not sure :<

[TheSpiral]

1) Yes. Always good to see more merge-mined coins, especially modern ones.
2) I'm not a huge fan of fast retargets, though I doubt it'd matter much if it was merge-mined.

[ahmed_bodi]

good replies so far, would any of u guys be willing to host some bytecoin testnet nodes with the new client so i can mine and test the network?

[meta.p02]

(1) Neutral on this.
(2) If this coin is to survive, fast retargets are a must.
(3) Block #19K seems to be a good time (at current hash rate of 18GH/s, ~15 days)

[ahmed_bodi]

currently in the client im building its set to 20k to allow for any increases in hashrate or delays in testing

[Metatron]

1. Yes
2. Good
3. Seems right 20K

TY

[ahmed_bodi]

Your Welcome no negative replies so far, compiling my client now and sticking it on the test network

[aa]

I'll run the client. Send/post a link.

[ahmed_bodi]

sure

EDIT: I managed to build the merged mining daemon off an old version of the client, going to update the checkpoints and everything and then release it

[ahmed_bodi]

is there anything u guys think i should add in?

[mr_random]

The whole point of Bytecoin is that it's a pure copy of Bitcoin. Making it different turns Bytecoin into one of the million other alt coins around here. Plus if merge mining is successful then the difficulty retarget will become a smaller issue than at present.

[ahmed_bodi]

i can agree but the diff is something that needs to be looked at, im thinking of setting the diff to be a static value at the hard fork so we can bring it down to a normal level

[movellan]

The whole point of Bytecoin is that it's a pure copy of Bitcoin. Making it different turns Bytecoin into one of the million other alt coins around here. Plus if merge mining is successful then the difficulty retarget will become a smaller issue than at present.

Agreed. The future potential of BTE is it's 1:1 relationship to BTC. Messing with the blockchain and hard-forking just benefit those who want quick profits right away. It benefits only miners who are currently promoting the changes. I believe those who are able to conventional-mine BTE with modest hashing should continue to do so. This will give the difficulty time to come down slowly by the end of the year hopefully making block generation quicker.

It's a possibility that the increasing difficulty and hashrate BTC is currently experiencing will put many off mining Bitcoin. Also remember it's only three years to the next BTC payout halving and the coin may not be as desirable at 12.5 per block unless the price has risen quite a bit. This may make Bytecoin, with it's 1:1 copy a popular alternative to investors. What do you say, $50-$100 per BTE in three years? Better to moderately mine now than screw up the blockchain to suit a few greedy opportunists.

Just my 0.02 BTE.

[ahmed_bodi]

possible and true. However until the last pool it was technically considered dead. Even now its blocks every 12 hours. So something has to be done to fix it

[meta.p02]

Just want to point out... If not for the max 4x difficulty decrease, even if the remaining blocks till 20160 were all found now, the difficulty would drop by a factor of 9, to 3.8K.

Right now it's going at 93 blocks found in the past 288 hours (1 block every 3.1 hours), suggesting a hashrate of 13.79GH/s. At this rate the next diff adjustment will be in 169 days and 7 hours. Perhaps we could get people who mine just for fun (i.e. not expecting much profit) to put their hashpower onto this coin? 336MH/s here, 336MH/s there and pretty soon you'd have a whole lot of gigahashes per second.

I hope to set up a pure-SHA pool soon, and when (if ever) I get it I will include Bytecoin as one of the choices.

[ahmed_bodi]

i already have a pure SHA pool for bytecoin i just need to clean up the frontend. Im planning on making it PPS too to increase the users

[mr_random]

i can agree but the diff is something that needs to be looked at, im thinking of setting the diff to be a static value at the hard fork so we can bring it down to a normal level

I'm confused. My understanding was that you are working on a merge mining patch. Would that not vastly improve the situation once implemented due to the significant increase in network hashrate?

I'm strongly of the opinion that tinkering with Bytecoin's difficulty or retargeting will destroy it's USP (unique selling point). We already have hundreds of coins similar to Bitcoin but 'a little different'.

[ahmed_bodi]

the merged mining would give it a more consistent hashrate. Think of the current hashrate + mmpool hashrate = new hashrate after the fork. What i was thinking of doing was setting the hashrate at the hard fork to something slightly lower in order to increase the block times. However i am in 2 minds about that

[movellan]

i can agree but the diff is something that needs to be looked at, im thinking of setting the diff to be a static value at the hard fork so we can bring it down to a normal level

I'm strongly of the opinion that tinkering with Bytecoin's difficulty or retargeting will destroy it's USP (unique selling point). We already have hundreds of coins similar to Bitcoin but 'a little different'.

+1 - The "tinkering" that is being considered includes forking the blockchain, which should be rejected out-of-hand, as it destroys Bytecoin's uniqueness as a pure BTC clone. These "forkers" want to profit at others expense just to make it easy for themselves to merge-mine multiple alt coins. Motive is pure profit and damn the blockchain integrity.

[RoadTrain]

Yes for merged mining
No for retargeting changes.

[mr_random]

the merged mining would give it a more consistent hashrate. Think of the current hashrate + mmpool hashrate = new hashrate after the fork. What i was thinking of doing was setting the hashrate at the hard fork to something slightly lower in order to increase the block times. However i am in 2 minds about that

Firstly, I appreciate your efforts.

Now. Since you've confirmed my suspicion that your merge mining patch will lead to a higher hashrate after the fork, why would you not wait to see the effects on the block times? Tinkering the code to improve the block times should be a last resort in my opinion. If after a certain amount of time, the merge mining doesn't lead to a nice increase in network hashrate then we could look to improve the block time situation with a coding change.

I would be willing to assist in an effort to market the merge mining capability to the wider Bitcoin crowd.

[ahmed_bodi]

i see what you're saying however i think theres a possability there may be a misunderstanding. I wont be changing the diff algorithm or anything like that.i was thinking of doing it so that at the time of the fork the difficulty will be reduced on that one occasion and the diff adjustments will continue like normal

[RoadTrain]

i see what you're saying however i think theres a possability there may be a misunderstanding. I wont be changing the diff algorithm or anything like that.i was thinking of doing it so that at the time of the fork the difficulty will be reduced on that one occasion and the diff adjustments will continue like normal

With merged mining the current diff won't be a problem, at least next retarged will come much faster.

[ahmed_bodi]

it would come faster but would it come fast enough? i personally dont think so but give me an hour or so and ill do some calc's

[RoadTrain]

it would come faster but would it come fast enough? i personally dont think so but give me an hour or so and ill do some calc's

if it goes to bitparking that's 5 TH added.
Even if people start merge-mining on p2pool it would be tens of gigahashes.

[ahmed_bodi]

wait bitparking is in the TH? i thought it was in the GH
well then i dont plan on adding a static diff then. since th will get us to the next retarget in no time

[RoadTrain]

wait bitparking is in the TH? i thought it was in the GH
well then i dont plan on adding a static diff then. since th will get us to the next retarget in no time

7.8 TH now
did you speak to doublec about adding BTE to the pool?
do you have a github repository with a merged mining patch?

[ahmed_bodi]

wow! i've spoken to doublec and he agreed to add it after the fork. I have a repository with a forked bytecoin aith the patch applied however it's not currently accepting any merged mined blocks upon testing so i have some more debugging to do on testnet

[Maria]

Bytecoin needs more pools and a good dedicated  exchange.

You are focusing your energy on the wrong target.

Bytecoin is perfect as it is. Just keep mining and STFU!

Maria.

[ahmed_bodi]

I dont have the power to keep mining. Secondly the network has been on the close to dying. It wouldn't take much for someone to do another attack on the pool. Think of it. Go without the patch and have 13gh with 3 hour blocks. Or take the merged mining patch and have 7.5TH, a lowered diff and a stable network enough to trade on and use

[movellan]

Bytecoin needs more pools and a good dedicated  exchange.

You are focusing your energy on the wrong target.

Bytecoin is perfect as it is. Just keep mining and STFU!

Maria.

+1 - Not exactly the verbiage I would use, but accurate enough

[movellan]

I dont have the power to keep mining. Secondly the network has been on the close to dying. It wouldn't take much for someone to do another attack on the pool. Think of it. Go without the patch and have 13gh with 3 hour blocks. Or take the merged mining patch and have 7.5TH, a lowered diff and a stable network enough to trade on and use

Sounds like what you really mean is you don't have the mining G's to keep up your current BTC level AND solo mine BTE at the same time, so you want to fork the Bytecoin chain to make it convenient for you and a few others to merge-mine both coins. You don't have any regard for current BTE solo miners and a future clean blockchain as long as your scheme can net some quick coins right away.

Leave the BTE blockchain alone and go ply your greed on some alt crapcoin.

[ahmed_bodi]

ermm..... i dont even own any mining equipment apart from 1 BE. i'm a pool OP not a miner. So theres you're whole story invalidated. And the reason i think bytecoin should be merged mined is as follows:

1) Provides a sustained hashrate for the life of bitcoin and any other SHA256 coin(basically if everyone leaves bytecoin mining the bitcoin network is still there to keep it running)

2) Fixes the diff problem resulting in 3 hour long  blocks

3) After the fix makes it easier for adoption as a currency. No company in their right minds would wait 3+ hours for a single confirm with bytecoin. The merged mining patch makes it a real contender to win the alt race

[movellan]

ermm..... i dont even own any mining equipment apart from 1 BE. i'm a pool OP not a miner. So theres you're whole story invalidated. And the reason i think bytecoin should be merged mined is as follows:

1) Provides a sustained hashrate for the life of bitcoin and any other SHA256 coin(basically if everyone leaves bytecoin mining the bitcoin network is still there to keep it running)

2) Fixes the diff problem resulting in 3 hour long  blocks

3) After the fix makes it easier for adoption as a currency. No company in their right minds would wait 3+ hours for a single confirm with bytecoin. The merged mining patch makes it a real contender to win the alt race

What pool are you running?

[ahmed_bodi]

crypto-expert.com the majority of the coins on there arent enabled yet tho

[DryPowder]

Right, as many people know i've been planning on working on fixing bytecoin by implementing a merged mining patch. As i can see im almost ready and will put it on testnet in a day or 2. I also have a pool ready which will have merged mining on the backend but i will auto-exchange daily and double up the block reward.
Now here comes you're part:

I would like people's opinion on the following:
1) The Merged Mining Patch
2) Changing the retarget structure so it retargets more frequently, (every 30 mins?)
3) When to hard fork?

1) Good
2) Bad
3) Now

I´m solo mining now, when you have your fork and pool ready i give you a couple GH´s.

[ahmed_bodi]

Right, as many people know i've been planning on working on fixing bytecoin by implementing a merged mining patch. As i can see im almost ready and will put it on testnet in a day or 2. I also have a pool ready which will have merged mining on the backend but i will auto-exchange daily and double up the block reward.
Now here comes you're part:

I would like people's opinion on the following:
1) The Merged Mining Patch
2) Changing the retarget structure so it retargets more frequently, (every 30 mins?)
3) When to hard fork?

1) Good
2) Bad
3) Now

I´m solo mining now, when you have your fork and pool ready i give you a couple GH´s.

Thanks bro,  i dont want to hard fork right now since it isnt enough notice and secondly the patch doesnt work properly yet. every merged mined block was rejected. But im not plannning on changing anything to do with the retargets with bitparking hashrate the pool should fly through the blocks

[movellan]

crypto-expert.com the majority of the coins on there arent enabled yet tho

This doesn't make any sense.

1) You say your personal hashing power is limited to 1 block erupter.

2) You run what appears to be a startup pool that currently hosts 3 alt coins, only one of which has hash stats/miners.

3) You are promoting forking the blockchain of a coin you neither mine nor host on your pool.

By your own admission you don't appear to be involved with Bytecoin at all. Why all the fuss about making changes to BTE?

[ahmed_bodi]

because bytecoin is a coin i care about which i've been spending money on creating custom pool software for it. Anyone who's used my pool's has seen the software on them change daily as i try out before deploying it on the bytecoin pool. If you guys dont trust me ask Digigami who runs the bytecoin P2Pool. unsure if i've still got the URL but it should be at bte1.crypto-expert.com or bte2.crypto-expert.com

[DryPowder]

because bytecoin is a coin i care about which i've been spending money on creating custom pool software for it. Anyone who's used my pool's has seen the software on them change daily as i try out before deploying it on the bytecoin pool. If you guys dont trust me ask Digigami who runs the bytecoin P2Pool. unsure if i've still got the URL but it should be at bte1.crypto-expert.com or bte2.crypto-expert.com

I use the pool; it works stable until for an unknown reason they close the pool. 

[DryPowder]

Bytecoin needs more pools and a good dedicated  exchange.

You are focusing your energy on the wrong target.

Bytecoin is perfect as it is. Just keep mining and STFU!

Maria.

And you can add a Dev. To the adding list. 

[movellan]

because bytecoin is a coin i care about which i've been spending money on creating custom pool software for it. Anyone who's used my pool's has seen the software on them change daily as i try out before deploying it on the bytecoin pool. If you guys dont trust me ask Digigami who runs the bytecoin P2Pool. unsure if i've still got the URL but it should be at bte1.crypto-expert.com or bte2.crypto-expert.com

It's not a matter of trust. You are wasting your time. If you do get some coder to force a fork in the blockchain, you will only succeed in screwing up BTE for the current conventional miners.

If you want Bytecoins, buy the hardware and mine some like the rest of us. Scheming to corrupt a coin so you can profit without having to do the legwork may get you ahead a bit, but you'll regret it later.

Remember what happened with the last guy who wanted to fork the BTE blockchain?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223904.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215819.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215819.0;all

[ahmed_bodi]

because bytecoin is a coin i care about which i've been spending money on creating custom pool software for it. Anyone who's used my pool's has seen the software on them change daily as i try out before deploying it on the bytecoin pool. If you guys dont trust me ask Digigami who runs the bytecoin P2Pool. unsure if i've still got the URL but it should be at bte1.crypto-expert.com or bte2.crypto-expert.com

I use the pool; it works stable until for an unknown reason they close the pool. 

Suspicion Confirmed ill fire my pool up tonight or tomorrow morning. We share 6-7 servers between us for pool's one suffered a hardware failure so im guessing he replaced my server with his p2pool server. Although he hadnt told me so i wasnt too sure

movellan as i said im not scheming i wont gain anything either since i dont mine. . Its legit miners who are getting punished due to the high diff. either way i have a pool so i earn money from the fee's a merged mining patch benefits the miners and the coin as a whole. Since it will become usable as a coin

[lukemarshall]

Mr. Bodi,

I am against any sort of a merged mining patch at this moment.

I think you are going in the right direction by setting up a mine pool to get more resources for the current blockchain.

You are trying to make it a tag a long when, remember this is for a more mature audience.

Let the Hash battles evolve a bit and see where this will lead.

Just saying

[ahmed_bodi]

How about this? block 21K i will set the fork for. and if everyone agrees i'll releease it

[lukemarshall]

ermm..... i dont even own any mining equipment apart from 1 BE. i'm a pool OP not a miner. So theres you're whole story invalidated. And the reason i think bytecoin should be merged mined is as follows:

1) Provides a sustained hashrate for the life of bitcoin and any other SHA256 coin(basically if everyone leaves bytecoin mining the bitcoin network is still there to keep it running)

2) Fixes the diff problem resulting in 3 hour long  blocks

3) After the fix makes it easier for adoption as a currency. No company in their right minds would wait 3+ hours for a single confirm with bytecoin. The merged mining patch makes it a real contender to win the alt race

How about this? block 21K i will set the fork for. and if everyone agrees i'll releease it

editing...

[ahmed_bodi]

huh?

[meta.p02]

How about this? block 21K i will set the fork for. and if everyone agrees i'll release it

Who are the people currently mining Bytecoin? Do they know about this? If this patch is released, the current miners will be drowned out by the Bitparking merged miners, so it is important that their consent is obtained first. Otherwise, this action is equal to an attack.

[lukemarshall]

ermm..... i dont even own any mining equipment apart from 1 BE. i'm a pool OP not a miner. So theres you're whole story invalidated. And the reason i think bytecoin should be merged mined is as follows:

1) Provides a sustained hashrate for the life of bitcoin and any other SHA256 coin(basically if everyone leaves bytecoin mining the bitcoin network is still there to keep it running)

2) Fixes the diff problem resulting in 3 hour long  blocks

3) After the fix makes it easier for adoption as a currency. No company in their right minds would wait 3+ hours for a single confirm with bytecoin. The merged mining patch makes it a real contender to win the alt race

How about this? block 21K i will set the fork for. and if everyone agrees i'll releease it

editing...

look, 18 blocks in the last 24 hours,
http://bte.cryptocoinexplorer.com/chains

I am seeing a blockchain that is far from dead there ^ although I cannot confirm that the block height is accurate here because I am not connected to the Qt client at the moment.

If it is indeed acurate, it is just mooving a bit slower than you may desire, indeed do something to help if you feel like you must.

As a Self proclaimed skilled pool Operator, why not take your strings of thoughts going on here and focus on the pool to bring the Hash power to BTE?

[ahmed_bodi]

When the p2pool was running which had +80% of the hashpower we had block announces around 5-6 times a day max. Also about the pools i just have, the 0 fee promotion is going to apply to bytecoin but for life

[lukemarshall]

When the p2pool was running which had +80% of the hashpower we had block announces around 5-6 times a day max. Also about the pools i just have, the 0 fee promotion is going to apply to bytecoin but for life

When was the last time that it was running?

Do you not think that by starting youn the pool first that the variables change to include faster block confirmations natrually, without hard fork?

No mandatory fee is a noble idea, sure...but I'm sure if you had a very well built and protected pool people would want to contribute to see it thrive.

[ahmed_bodi]

it was running about a week ago. and i agree. So far the server's have been as stable as a rock when left alone

[Digigami]

Indeed that was my p2pool which was the last known Bytecoin pool out there. I did take it offline to replace one I was providing for Ahmed for this pool projects. I felt it would not be too terribly missed as I was down to 1 other user other then myself mining on it. I am now running my equipment running solo on BTE. I have been a majority of the network hash rate for quite some time now.

I supported the idea of a merged mining patch so that this chain would see long standing support from miners all over. I fear that if in the last while had I stopped mining it altogether it just may die.. After reading so many comments in this thread I am mostly undecided about it now. It seems this thread has sparked some more hash power across the network, 15+ blocks in the last 24 hours is something I have not seen in a long time.. Where where all you guys before this thread? I could have used your help along the way too ya know..

My biggest fear, should we decide to ditch the fork/merged mine idea (and to be sure everyone is on the same page here, including merged mining into Bytecoin REQUIRES that the chain be forked) is that if we continue to struggle along until finally we reach re targeting and have a new difficulty that better represents actual network difficulty, what's to stop someone or a few individuals with vast amounts of hash power from running us through that next low diff period and then abandoning us once again 2 re targets from now? Please make sure you consider this very possible situation.

We are currently fighting to keep BTE alive because someone choose to attack it, and that could happen again. While I agree forking the chain either in favour of MM or a different difficulty targeting algorithm does in some ways take away from the initial idea and also what drew me into BTE, it does also help protect the chain and any of our investments into the time in securing this network so far. 

I'd like to open more discussion on these topics, either here if Ahmed does not mind or we can start another thread on it. Most of the points here so far are very clear they don't want changes, but I haven't seen much for explanation of why they so desperately wish to leave it as is. I ask you now to weigh the risks, consider, and once again please speak your mind.

[dreamwatcher]

bte.cryptocoinexplorer.com should be accurate as it is actively maintained as one of the CCE explorers.

If I get to the point where CCE3 is ready for deployment by the time Bytecoin is ready for re-release, I will make it one of the first coins converted over to CCE3. This could be part of the re-release announcement and  publicity.

I also ran one of the last Bytecoin pools for a short while, but shut it down when zero miners used it for some time. I would be willing to put a Bytecoin pool back up at re-release.

[ahmed_bodi]

nice work! well then thats 2 Dedicated OP's. ill run a normal pool and a p2pool soon, perhaps tonight

[dreamwatcher]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

[mr_random]

Indeed that was my p2pool which was the last known Bytecoin pool out there. I did take it offline to replace one I was providing for Ahmed for this pool projects. I felt it would not be too terribly missed as I was down to 1 other user other then myself mining on it. I am now running my equipment running solo on BTE. I have been a majority of the network hash rate for quite some time now.

I supported the idea of a merged mining patch so that this chain would see long standing support from miners all over. I fear that if in the last while had I stopped mining it altogether it just may die.. After reading so many comments in this thread I am mostly undecided about it now. It seems this thread has sparked some more hash power across the network, 15+ blocks in the last 24 hours is something I have not seen in a long time.. Where where all you guys before this thread? I could have used your help along the way too ya know..

My biggest fear, should we decide to ditch the fork/merged mine idea (and to be sure everyone is on the same page here, including merged mining into Bytecoin REQUIRES that the chain be forked) is that if we continue to struggle along until finally we reach re targeting and have a new difficulty that better represents actual network difficulty, what's to stop someone or a few individuals with vast amounts of hash power from running us through that next low diff period and then abandoning us once again 2 re targets from now? Please make sure you consider this very possible situation.

We are currently fighting to keep BTE alive because someone choose to attack it, and that could happen again. While I agree forking the chain either in favour of MM or a different difficulty targeting algorithm does in some ways take away from the initial idea and also what drew me into BTE, it does also help protect the chain and any of our investments into the time in securing this network so far. 

I'd like to open more discussion on these topics, either here if Ahmed does not mind or we can start another thread on it. Most of the points here so far are very clear they don't want changes, but I haven't seen much for explanation of why they so desperately wish to leave it as is. I ask you now to weigh the risks, consider, and once again please speak your mind.

I'm fine with forking so we can merge mine it.

I'm against any adjustment to the re-targeting.

Merge mining is still keeping within the original spirit of Bytecoin. Changing the difficulty retarget is changing the protocol and thus destroys the unique selling point of Bytecoin and it will become just another alt coin which is like Bitcoin 'but a bit different'.

[movellan]

I'd like to open more discussion on these topics, either here if Ahmed does not mind or we can start another thread on it. Most of the points here so far are very clear they don't want changes, but I haven't seen much for explanation of why they so desperately wish to leave it as is. I ask you now to weigh the risks, consider, and once again please speak your mind.

I believe it's essential to the future of Bytecoin that no steps are taken by anyone to modify the blockchain in any way. Forking, merge-mining or re-targeting are not acceptable options.

meta.p02 correctly cautioned that doing so and opening up the new fork on Bitparking would constitute an attack on current miners.

Please leave the BTE blockchain alone.

[ahmed_bodi]

What i fail to see is how? the blockchain has been on its deathbed and both dreamwatcher, digigami and me pointed out. Only since i began to put these plans into action have people took any interest in the coin. You do have to realise that with the advent of ASIC's, its a peice of cake to perform an attack  on the coin to keep it down in the dumps. And tbqh i dont know if i'd even bother making an attempt again at fixing it if someone is to attack it in the future if i dont make the merged mining patches. One thing which has been misunderstood i also am dead against changing the difficulty algo. What i was saying was at the hard fork set the difficulty to be a static amount and continue on with the previous diff algo.

[ASICSRUS]

Indeed that was my p2pool which was the last known Bytecoin pool out there. I did take it offline to replace one I was providing for Ahmed for this pool projects. I felt it would not be too terribly missed as I was down to 1 other user other then myself mining on it. I am now running my equipment running solo on BTE. I have been a majority of the network hash rate for quite some time now.

I supported the idea of a merged mining patch so that this chain would see long standing support from miners all over. I fear that if in the last while had I stopped mining it altogether it just may die.. After reading so many comments in this thread I am mostly undecided about it now. It seems this thread has sparked some more hash power across the network, 15+ blocks in the last 24 hours is something I have not seen in a long time.. Where where all you guys before this thread? I could have used your help along the way too ya know..

My biggest fear, should we decide to ditch the fork/merged mine idea (and to be sure everyone is on the same page here, including merged mining into Bytecoin REQUIRES that the chain be forked) is that if we continue to struggle along until finally we reach re targeting and have a new difficulty that better represents actual network difficulty, what's to stop someone or a few individuals with vast amounts of hash power from running us through that next low diff period and then abandoning us once again 2 re targets from now? Please make sure you consider this very possible situation.

We are currently fighting to keep BTE alive because someone choose to attack it, and that could happen again. While I agree forking the chain either in favour of MM or a different difficulty targeting algorithm does in some ways take away from the initial idea and also what drew me into BTE, it does also help protect the chain and any of our investments into the time in securing this network so far. 

I'd like to open more discussion on these topics, either here if Ahmed does not mind or we can start another thread on it. Most of the points here so far are very clear they don't want changes, but I haven't seen much for explanation of why they so desperately wish to leave it as is. I ask you now to weigh the risks, consider, and once again please speak your mind.

thanks for keeping her alive i've been picking up cheapies off the exchange, we should see BTE climb in the future~keep up the good work!;-)easyyy

[movellan]

What i fail to see is how? the blockchain has been on its deathbed and both dreamwatcher, digigami and me pointed out. .

Not so. Since 6-01-13 BTE has averaged 6+ blocks a day; that's over 500 blocks. I don't call that dead. Slow, but definitely not dead.

Miners don't want what you are proposing. Look at how the poll results on this thread have changed since they became aware of what you and others plan to do. Leave it alone.

[ahmed_bodi]

6+ blocks a day is what anyone would call on its deathbed

[movellan]

wow! i've spoken to doublec and he agreed to add it after the fork. I have a repository with a forked bytecoin aith the patch applied however it's not currently accepting any merged mined blocks upon testing so i have some more debugging to do on testnet

Didn't doublec want 50 BTC to get on board when you tried this same thing in July?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260929.msg2802349#msg2802349

[viboracecata]

It's ok for me.

Voted for good.

[ahmed_bodi]

wow! i've spoken to doublec and he agreed to add it after the fork. I have a repository with a forked bytecoin aith the patch applied however it's not currently accepting any merged mined blocks upon testing so i have some more debugging to do on testnet

Didn't doublec want 50 BTC to get on board when you tried this same thing in July?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260929.msg2802349#msg2802349

50BTC to help me code it.

[movellan]

wow! i've spoken to doublec and he agreed to add it after the fork. I have a repository with a forked bytecoin aith the patch applied however it's not currently accepting any merged mined blocks upon testing so i have some more debugging to do on testnet

Didn't doublec want 50 BTC to get on board when you tried this same thing in July?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260929.msg2802349#msg2802349

50BTC to help me code it.

So who paid doublec the 50 BTC to do the coding?

[ahmed_bodi]

no one, i did the coding myself since i began to learn how to do it. My main problem was im not used to C++ cause im a vb.net programmer. I was also the main coder behind cloudcoin before i left (too high premine and no communication)

[ASICSRUS]

BTE/Bytecoin looking safe i'm looking for .OOO2 here!;-)weeeeeeee

[Anon136]

please when you do this patch dont change anything other than making it merged mined. i hope this doesnt sound like a threat but my pledge of 1000 bte was for a patch that only adds merged mining, any other changes would exclude you from my contribution.  

*edit* if you are just talking about manually setting it for one period and then having it return back to the normal difficulty calculation algorithm than thats fine.

[ahmed_bodi]

^that

thats exactly what i've been trying to say all along. everyone seems to be misunderstanding me

[RoadTrain]

If anyone doubts about merged mining, look at TRC. It's constantly raped by difficulty swings.
Either the merged mining should come, or difficulty retargeting has to be changed. The first is better IMO cause it provides a lot of additional hashrate.

[ASICSRUS]

if it aint broke dont fix it!~up %50 in one day or so just WILD!!!:o >>
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/49

[ahmed_bodi]

If anyone doubts about merged mining, look at TRC. It's constantly raped by difficulty swings.
Either the merged mining should come, or difficulty retargeting has to be changed. The first is better IMO cause it provides a lot of additional hashrate.

THANK YOU!! Atleast someone else who agrees with me. All the Major Pool OP's and developers have agree on it. its people who haven't attempted to resolve the issues that are complaining.

[ahmed_bodi]

if it aint broke dont fix it!~up %50 in one day or so just WILD!!!:o >>
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/49

Thats what news about development work does its till not going to fix the problems with the coin tho although i wish it did cause im sick of arguing when no one else is making an attempt

[movellan]

If anyone doubts about merged mining, look at TRC. It's constantly raped by difficulty swings.
Either the merged mining should come, or difficulty retargeting has to be changed. The first is better IMO cause it provides a lot of additional hashrate.

Yes, a LOT of additional hashrate thereby crowding out the conventional solo miners who have been supporting BTC by using low and moderate hashrates to keep the coin going. Ever since some jerk pointed a big ASIC or farm at BTC and jacked the diff up to it's present rate and then walked away, they have been mining and keeping the coin alive. Now ahmed_bodi and his crowd want to just push them aside.

Ahmed, what's your advice to solo miners if you get your patch working and listed on Bitparking? I'd image it goes something like, "Better join Bitparking because from now on it's my way or the highway."

I smell some kind of sweet deal between the "forking" promoters. Two months ago doublec wanted 50 BTC to make this thing happen. Now all of a sudden he appears quite happy to let ahmed do it all and promote the forked BTC on Bitparking without any compensation. Hmmmmmm........

[ahmed_bodi]

Your reading too deep into it if you search through my old posts ull see i asked profmac for his eloipool setup. Well i never go it so created my own. Now ill be distribiting a vm or a github repo with all the scripts etc needed to make a merged mining solo pool automatically. So that way solo miners dont lose out

[cshelswell]

anyone else having trouble getting the wallet to sync? I was going to do a bit of solo mining but it's permanently out of sync.

Cheers

[movellan]

anyone else having trouble getting the wallet to sync? I was going to do a bit of solo mining but it's permanently out of sync.

Cheers

Even though the green check mark is not present, mouse over it's usual spot and check the block number against the latest block on bte.cryptocoinexplorer.com.
If they agree, your wallet's in sync.

[cshelswell]

ah awesome thanks - that helps

[ASICSRUS]

Your reading too deep into it if you search through my old posts ull see i asked profmac for his eloipool setup. Well i never go it so created my own. Now ill be distribiting a vm or a github repo with all the scripts etc needed to make a merged mining solo pool automatically. So that way solo miners dont lose out

it's going up/\in price let it run when it starts going down then do something!;-)LOL j/k!haha

[Anon136]

^that

thats exactly what i've been trying to say all along. everyone seems to be misunderstanding me

oh yea thats nbd and probably a pretty good idea.

[coretechs]

I support the merged-mining additions, but I think the retarget and anything else should be left untouched.  IMHO the focus should be on keeping the codebase in sync with current bitcoin release.

[ahmed_bodi]

I've come to the final conclusion that I will only change merged mining and implement the latest bitcoin coinbase. I will also be adding several other additions such as changing the alert keys so I can tell users to update to the latest client for new checkpoints. I now would like a list of all people who would want a solo merged mining pool with a web fro tend. And if there is anyone else interested in helping out

[meta.p02]

Let me ask you: What do you want Bytecoin to be? Making this coin merge-mined will indeed stabilise the coin and revive it. But what exactly will this achieve? It will make Bytecoin just another merge-mined coin, a row in the growing list of coins merge-mined by Bitparking ("Bytecoin - 0.000xxxxx"). Bytecoin will become just another tool to make extra money while mining Bitcoin - see Ixcoin for an example. For a coin to be truly alive it must have a community, not just a stable hashrate.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Then again, it's your fork, so do whatever you want. Just be aware that whatever you are doing will cause the current miners to be outvoted about 100:1 or more with no defence.

[ahmed_bodi]

I disagree. With the full merged mining setup I'll be providing there will be no reason for any existing miners to use bitparking. Intact id highly recommend against it. Once we achieve a stable hashrate with on target blocks therell be a number of services and a community for bytecoin the first service will be a betting site. Bytecoin should also be accepted by the server sides web design co. A site for developers and customers to integrate may also be coming soon. During the process the bytecoin website, forum faucet an pool will be created

[movellan]

I support the merged-mining additions, but I think the retarget and anything else should be left untouched.  IMHO the focus should be on keeping the codebase in sync with current bitcoin release.

That won't happen with the merged-mining setup ahmed_bodi and his confederates are proposing. As I understand it, the current codebase (blockchain) MUST be forked in order for the scheme to work. As meta.P02 says above, the result of this will be a lock-out of current conventional BTE miners unless they agree to use ahmed_bodi's corrupted client software. I plan to stay with the current bitcoin-qt and encourage others to do the same.

[ahmed_bodi]

why do you seem to think that i am running a scheme? also why do u seem to think that it will affect bytecoin negatively?

[movellan]

Let me ask you: What do you want Bytecoin to be? Making this coin merge-mined will indeed stabilise the coin and revive it. But what exactly will this achieve? It will make Bytecoin just another merge-mined coin, a row in the growing list of coins merge-mined by Bitparking ("Bytecoin - 0.000xxxxx"). Bytecoin will become just another tool to make extra money while mining Bitcoin - see Ixcoin for an example. For a coin to be truly alive it must have a community, not just a stable hashrate.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Then again, it's your fork, so do whatever you want. Just be aware that whatever you are doing will cause the current miners to be outvoted about 100:1 or more with no defence.

Spot on. Thanks for your concise  summary of the consequences of forking the current blockchain.

[movellan]

why do you seem to think that i am running a scheme? also why do u seem to think that it will affect bytecoin negatively?

meta.p02 summarized it nicely in his post a few above this one. Your proposal makes BTE just another "extra profit" in merged mining for BTC.

As for being a scheme, you have claimed altruistic motives for your proposal, claiming it will be good for the future of Bytecoin. I have no such motives; like many others I mine BTE in the hope of future profits, and IMO the best path for this would be to leave the coin run it's course. What would have happened to BTC if someone forced a fork early on? Think we would have $140 BTC now?

[ahmed_bodi]

^yes BTC would have been. How about i release the client and let the people decide then?. Give it a while. as soon as that diff hits a normal level. mark my words, we can come back to this post. It's going to get driven sky high again.

[dreamwatcher]

The crypto currency world is not the same as it was when BTC was released.

When BTC was released it had no competitors, it was truly the first of its kind.

I believe the BTC network was already in the TH range before any competition came to market. The first real competitors where scrypt based and limited to CPU only (In theory at the time).

The BTC network was already well established and basically "untouchable" at this point.

Before April of this year, there were a few active alt-coins, basically plenty of room for them to grow or die by technical merit.

After April, the market exploded and for the first time coins seriously had to compete with one another, not only by technical merit but by marketability, perception and services offered.

The threat of malicious tampering with the block chain of SHA 256 based coins became easy for a single user or small group with the introduction of the SHA 256 ASIC's. There are at least a few BTC "purist" that would take joy in destroying an alt coin at very little cost to themselves. BTC has never faced the type of threat that SHA 256 alt coins face today.

So, as the meme goes: "adapt, change or die".

I can understand the idea of keeping BTE unchanged, unfortunately in today's' market it simply cannot stay an almost 1:1 clone with BTC. The block chain will be continually abused or brought to a screeching halt.

So according to the postings here, either it dies because it gets changed or it dies because of the easy exploiting of the current design.

One is almost a guarantee, if it can be exploited, it will be exploited. Anybody that has been part of the alt-community for even a short time knows it.

On the other hand, will it die out due to lack of interest after a change? That remains unclear.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. At this point I have no dogs in this fight. However if either a difficulty change or merged mining are released and accepted by at least one exchange, I will start a pool and do what I can to support the coin.

[RoadTrain]

If anyone doubts about merged mining, look at TRC. It's constantly raped by difficulty swings.
Either the merged mining should come, or difficulty retargeting has to be changed. The first is better IMO cause it provides a lot of additional hashrate.

Yes, a LOT of additional hashrate thereby crowding out the conventional solo miners who have been supporting BTC by using low and moderate hashrates to keep the coin going. Ever since some jerk pointed a big ASIC or farm at BTC and jacked the diff up to it's present rate and then walked away, they have been mining and keeping the coin alive. Now ahmed_bodi and his crowd want to just push them aside.

Ahmed, what's your advice to solo miners if you get your patch working and listed on Bitparking? I'd image it goes something like, "Better join Bitparking because from now on it's my way or the highway."

I smell some kind of sweet deal between the "forking" promoters. Two months ago doublec wanted 50 BTC to make this thing happen. Now all of a sudden he appears quite happy to let ahmed do it all and promote the forked BTC on Bitparking without any compensation. Hmmmmmm........

You're strongly biased. I'll try to explain for the final time.
With all this abundant sha256 hashrate pointed at bitcoin, no altcoin can thrive with bitcoin's parameters.
It's that simple.

Following your arguments, these heroic miners should continue mining until the retarget, and when another fat asic comes in and pushes the diff to the sky, they should again continue to mine at a high diff for a possible loss. Take pity on them.

dreamwatcher, I agree.

[ahmed_bodi]

i also agree. It seems those experienced ones of us. understand the impact well. i know for sure cryptsy will accept the changes and also a pool will since i've discussed my idea with doublec and also with vern

[movellan]

If anyone doubts about merged mining, look at TRC. It's constantly raped by difficulty swings.
Either the merged mining should come, or difficulty retargeting has to be changed. The first is better IMO cause it provides a lot of additional hashrate.

Yes, a LOT of additional hashrate thereby crowding out the conventional solo miners who have been supporting BTC by using low and moderate hashrates to keep the coin going. Ever since some jerk pointed a big ASIC or farm at BTC and jacked the diff up to it's present rate and then walked away, they have been mining and keeping the coin alive. Now ahmed_bodi and his crowd want to just push them aside.

Ahmed, what's your advice to solo miners if you get your patch working and listed on Bitparking? I'd image it goes something like, "Better join Bitparking because from now on it's my way or the highway."

I smell some kind of sweet deal between the "forking" promoters. Two months ago doublec wanted 50 BTC to make this thing happen. Now all of a sudden he appears quite happy to let ahmed do it all and promote the forked BTC on Bitparking without any compensation. Hmmmmmm........

You're strongly biased.

dreamwatcher, I agree.

Correct. I'm strongly biased against any alteration of the original BTE blockchain.  BTW, once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

[Anon136]

once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

the combined might of all bitcoin miners.

[movellan]

once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

the combined might of all bitcoin miners.

Yea, sure.  There are miners on most of the large and medium size BTC pools that are hashing at 1TH+ right now. What happens when your proposed fork goes active and one of these decides to point his hashpower at the forked BTE blockchain? Biparking's current 9200 GH is going to be small potatoes. ahmed_bodi has been making plenty of noise about his proposed fork, so any miner with plus 1TH hashing who's bent on doing damage won't have to point his hardware at BTE for very long to get the diff rate back up to present or higher. So where is the new fork if this happens?

[Anon136]

once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

the combined might of all bitcoin miners.

Yea, sure.  There are miners on most of the large and medium size BTC pools that are hashing at 1TH+ right now. What happens when your proposed fork goes active and one of these decides to point his hashpower at the forked BTE blockchain? Biparking's current 9200 GH is going to be small potatoes. ahmed_bodi has been making plenty of noise about his proposed fork, so any miner with plus 1TH hashing who's bent on doing damage won't have to point his hardware at BTE for very long to get the diff rate back up to present or higher. So where is the new fork if this happens?

lol you cant stop mining bitcoin to point your hashpower at a merged minded coin. its merged mined. mining bitcoin and mining bytecoin is the same operation.

[movellan]

once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

the combined might of all bitcoin miners.

Yea, sure.  There are miners on most of the large and medium size BTC pools that are hashing at 1TH+ right now. What happens when your proposed fork goes active and one of these decides to point his hashpower at the forked BTE blockchain? Biparking's current 9200 GH is going to be small potatoes. ahmed_bodi has been making plenty of noise about his proposed fork, so any miner with plus 1TH hashing who's bent on doing damage won't have to point his hardware at BTE for very long to get the diff rate back up to present or higher. So where is the new fork if this happens?

lol you cant stop mining bitcoin to point your hashpower at a merged minded coin. its merged mined. mining bitcoin and mining bytecoin is the same operation.

Hmmm........ That's not what ahmed_bodi claims.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292381.msg3170099#msg3170099

[RoadTrain]

once your group has the proposed fork in place, what's to prevent the guy with the big ASIC from doing the same thing to the new blockchain? 

the combined might of all bitcoin miners.

Yea, sure.  There are miners on most of the large and medium size BTC pools that are hashing at 1TH+ right now. What happens when your proposed fork goes active and one of these decides to point his hashpower at the forked BTE blockchain? Biparking's current 9200 GH is going to be small potatoes. ahmed_bodi has been making plenty of noise about his proposed fork, so any miner with plus 1TH hashing who's bent on doing damage won't have to point his hardware at BTE for very long to get the diff rate back up to present or higher. So where is the new fork if this happens?

lol you cant stop mining bitcoin to point your hashpower at a merged minded coin. its merged mined. mining bitcoin and mining bytecoin is the same operation.

Actually you can point the miner to merge mined coin exclusively, but it doesn't make any sense because of high diff and low impact you will do.

movellan, I am not a part of "the group", I am just a realist, while you are an idealist.

[ahmed_bodi]

agreed. i will also be setting up a multipool like pool but with merged mining too. which i will explain later

[movellan]

agreed. i will also be setting up a multipool like pool but with merged mining too. which i will explain later

Thanks so much for leaving a few crumbs for us ignorant solo miners. Nice to see you have our future so well-planned.  Hmmmm.........almost like Obamacare, and executed with the same contumely and arrogance. And this from one who admits he doesn't even mine.

There has been a lot of hot air hereabouts concerning the abilities of the "forkers" to know what's best for the rest of us. Well then, go ahead and execute your scheme and let's see what happens.

[ASICSRUS]

iyo : would this change/fork increase the speed of coin production?..also how might we effect a 8 to 1 ratio to BTC whereas:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte
"" The byte[coin] /ˈbaɪt/ is a unit of digital information in computing and telecommunications that most commonly consists of eight bits[coin]. ..""  

big ups! tia!

[ProfMac]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

[movellan]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

Yes, and the reason it's stuck is because ahmed_bodi and his "forker" crowd were counting down till the diff dropped and then pounced on the coin with big ASIC units, and reaped a bundle unit the diff rose again. This from a guy who claimed he didn't mine and only wanted to fork BTE for the good of the coin. See his own admission of perfidy at....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304452.msg3275648#msg3275648

[Anon136]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

Yes, and the reason it's stuck is because ahmed_bodi and his "forker" crowd were counting down till the diff dropped and then pounced on the coin with big ASIC units, and reaped a bundle unit the diff rose again. This from a guy who claimed he didn't mine and only wanted to fork BTE for the good of the coin. See his own admission of perfidy at....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304452.msg3275648#msg3275648

even if this is the product of a malicious attack it still makes it clear that the merged mining patch is necessary. the fact that he was able to bring the blockchain to a halt is pretty good evidence that his changes are worth while.

[ProfMac]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

Yes, and the reason it's stuck is because ahmed_bodi and his "forker" crowd were counting down till the diff dropped and then pounced on the coin with big ASIC units, and reaped a bundle unit the diff rose again. This from a guy who claimed he didn't mine and only wanted to fork BTE for the good of the coin. See his own admission of perfidy at....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304452.msg3275648#msg3275648

Several people are mining at this moment.  The correct block count at 2013-11-23 23:27:06 GMT is 28,605.  Blocks are being mined, the web page is not updating correctly.

[dreamwatcher]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

Yes, and the reason it's stuck is because ahmed_bodi and his "forker" crowd were counting down till the diff dropped and then pounced on the coin with big ASIC units, and reaped a bundle unit the diff rose again. This from a guy who claimed he didn't mine and only wanted to fork BTE for the good of the coin. See his own admission of perfidy at....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304452.msg3275648#msg3275648

Several people are mining at this moment.  The correct block count at 2013-11-23 23:27:06 GMT is 28,605.  Blocks are being mined, the web page is not updating correctly.

Block explorer is now in sync.

Next time, somebody may try to send me a PM or e-mail when they notice. This is especially true with a coin in the state Bytecoin is in. It is not unusual for the the Block chain to get stuck due to high difficulty and low miner hash. I have seen the Bytecoin chain get stuck for many days, so it was not unusual for me to see the last block on the explorer a few days behind.

However, this time for some reason ABE was stuck on that block. Normally when a explorer gets stuck it is because the coin daemon crashed. This time I had no indication that ABE was stuck as there were no error messages and the daemon was running. I had to completely rebuild the database to fix the issue.

So please, next time, send me a message of some sort or even post in the Cryptocoinexplorer thread, instead of just posting the issue in a forum thread which I might not see.  Thank you.

[ahmed_bodi]

Everybody feel free to use the CCE Bytecoin server as an addnode to help with syncing.

addnode=84.200.4.218

The blockchain list is stuck at 26,774.

Yes, and the reason it's stuck is because ahmed_bodi and his "forker" crowd were counting down till the diff dropped and then pounced on the coin with big ASIC units, and reaped a bundle unit the diff rose again. This from a guy who claimed he didn't mine and only wanted to fork BTE for the good of the coin. See his own admission of perfidy at....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304452.msg3275648#msg3275648

even if this is the product of a malicious attack it still makes it clear that the merged mining patch is necessary. the fact that he was able to bring the blockchain to a halt is pretty good evidence that his changes are worth while.

Thanks, and point proven movellan. i never had an asic to mine (although i wish i did) but many people i know did and as shown the blockchain was taken to a halt with ease. we had no malicious intenentions at all. however if someone did have one, then its safe to say bytecoin would suffer a painful death. and thats not even from my mouth. Even warren @ litecoin agreed to it. and hes not someone to be taken lightly

[ProfMac]

Block explorer is now in sync.

Next time, somebody may try to send me a PM or e-mail when they notice. This is especially true with a coin in the state Bytecoin is in. It is not unusual for the the Block chain to get stuck due to high difficulty and low miner hash. I have seen the Bytecoin chain get stuck for many days, so it was not unusual for me to see the last block on the explorer a few days behind.

However, this time for some reason ABE was stuck on that block. Normally when a explorer gets stuck it is because the coin daemon crashed. This time I had no indication that ABE was stuck as there were no error messages and the daemon was running. I had to completely rebuild the database to fix the issue.

So please, next time, send me a message of some sort or even post in the Cryptocoinexplorer thread, instead of just posting the issue in a forum thread which I might not see.  Thank you.

Thanks.  I just searched for a cryptocoinexplorer thread, and found this one.

WWW.CRYPTOCOINEXPLORER.COM


...



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