BPMC Launch BF1 USB miner - probably the fastest USB miner in the World

[integrity42]

We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product.... Psst this is a development run sorta right?

You can fix that miscalculation... Sell all your inventory right now at 1BTC. You'll have cash-in-hand again to manufacture the next run. 

Time value of money is important as well. If you mine with all the hardware it will take months to generate income.  You can sell it all now at 1BTC and have capital again to fund the next run.

Also, if I were you guys, I'd give BitFury a earful on pricing... tell them they need to make it a no-brainer for contract manufacturers if they want to sell chips, or you won't buy in the future.  They have a lot to lose as well. 28nm have high NRE costs.  Use leverage on your next batch to get better pricing. Tell them that the forums are blowing up with pissed off buyers who can't ROI.  etc...

PS.
If you want some free consulting services PM me.

[Bicknellski]

I don't think you can FIX a miscalculation after the fact...but if you have that time machine as part of your free consulting services please throw that in as well.

Yes that was sarcasm I am sorry.

Prices posted.
Payment method posted.

Feel free to buy or not.

Peace.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292433.msg3129979#msg3129979 (CHECK FOR UPDATES HERE THE POT SWEETENS A BIT)

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,
Price is 2.1 BTC each incl Free International Express Shipping, I will also throw in a cpl of these USB memory sticks with each order (some are 4 and some are 8GB).

[integrity42]

I don't think you can FIX a miscalculation after the fact...but if you have that time machine as part of your free consulting services please throw that in as well.


Yes that was sarcasm I am sorry.

Haha.

Well, I'm not trying to be a jerk -- sorry if I came off that way.  It's been frustrating to see fiasco after fiasco in the ASIC mining game, so I sort of don't have much patience anymore...

I just think you should seriously consider dropping the price. Even if you don't make anything, you can have 1000 happy customers who will become brand loyal.  You guys are certainly not stupid. You executed in 6 weeks. Very impressive.  Just fix up the sales side and you will have a successful mining business.  Sell this batch at a loss if you have to, the customer loyalty will make up for it.

[Meizirkki]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

There's no way USB miners can compete with large rigs, and in that sense (IMHO) it's totally ok for a USB miner to be (little) more expensive than it's projected ROI. USB miners are kind of "novelty things" that are nice to have even if they are never to break even. That's part of the reason erupters sell so well.

2.1BTC is, however, a very large price tag for any kind of USB stick. Too much for a hobby miner and probably too much for most collectors. Both whom you already scared away with the 5pcs minimum order. If you just waited another month, had more reasonable pricing and sold individually, these hobbyists and collectors would likely be buying. I'd even buy one too, Bitfury is after all the first full custom ASIC, and the most efficient design to exist to this date.

That's why I feel sorry for you. You have a great idea and the skills to do it, but.. I really can't afford to support you.

[Bicknellski]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

There's no way USB miners can compete with large rigs, and in that sense (IMHO) it's totally ok for a USB miner to be (little) more expensive than it's projected ROI. USB miners are kind of "novelty things" that are nice to have even if they are never to break even. That's part of the reason erupters sell so well.

2.1BTC is, however, a very large price tag for any kind of USB stick. Too much for a hobby miner and probably too much for most collectors. Both whom you already scared away with the 5pcs minimum order. If you just waited another month, had more reasonable pricing and sold individually, these hobbyists and collectors would likely be buying. I'd even buy one too, Bitfury is after all the first full custom ASIC, and the most efficient design to exist to this date.

That's why I feel sorry for you. You have a great idea and the skills to do it, but but.. I really can't afford to support you.

Fair enough...sorry for being defensive. I appreciate the candor and the advice. Thank-you.

[Threader]

Great idea and maybe if you had them in hand 3 months ago then 2.1BTC would pass the smell test.

Yes please keep them all and mine your hearts content.

[Meizirkki]

Fair enough...sorry for being defensive. I appreciate the candor and the advice. Thank-you.

No, no need to apologize or thank me. All I did was lay my hindsight on you.

[spoid]

sad, really was looking forward to buying some, but this is about twice as much as I would be willing to pay. Looks like I'll have to wait another week or two.

[Operatr]

The problem with ROI currently is a matter of BTC market price not rising fast enough to offset the hashpower rise. It has nothing at all to do with what it costs right this minute to build ASIC mining hardware. The price is what it is to make these, what is everyone complaining about? Instead of bitching about things that are beyond the teams control maybe adjust your expectations a bit. You guys do realize there are real world costs in production right? The fab doesn't care if their price hurts your mining or not.

 I see a few that were hoping for some really cheap USB miner capable of a fast break-even, which is unrealistic to begin with, and calling BPMC a bunch of scammers for not delivering this which is not fair. If you pay any attention at all to the mining world you know profitable mining is barely possible without investing $1000s up front into full Bitfury racks or something of similar density for the best bang for the buck.

It would take 8 ASICMiner Erupter USBs to equal one of these, or about BTC1.65 to get around 2.5 Gh/s out of them. But then you also need 8 USB slots so your hub cost is much higher if your running a lot of them. I don't think the price is that outlandish at BTC2.1 for the vastly increased density per USB slot, and this is only because the price per chip is high.

Hopefully future chip prices will be lower, but otherwise I say well done on these.

[joeventura]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

Also remember we had the money set aside for a 11,000 K1 Nano USB miner run and pulled the plug on it so we were keen as COOP to have something hashing. You know what I am pretty proud of the guys that pulled this off actually Kev, Turt, Ti, Andre, and some other helpers worldwide to get it hashing at 2.5+. We went from thought to shipping units in what 6 weeks? Pretty impressive work from the COOP there.

I don't think ANYTHING you did was stupid.

I also agree with your position that if someone wants them great, otherwise we mine with them.

Once the chip price comes down, you are positioned to instantly leverage that - I say well done.

[jdebunt]

5 for 2.1 btc total would be a more fair price tbh

[beardays]

Great looking devices and nice video. Love the fans/hubs! You could make more from selling them than mining by yourself im sure. people will be prepared to buy them for a slight loss - but not a massive loss like it would be at current pricing.

[Stinky_Pete]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

[nikycoin]

i was prepare to pay up to 1.2 btc with shipping included for one of these , but 2.1 btc and a minimum of 5 no thank you . Maybe next time ! 

[joeventura]

yes I guess the only thing I would have done differently is not hype it.

If you knew the price was to be over $100 a GH just say that you offering to sell prototypes at close to cost and for me,
the best way to get rid of these is a deal where I buy them at this price and in October I get a special price on an equal amount at a much better price.


For example, I'd buy 5 @ BTC2.1 each today and you commit to producing more in October and sell me 5 more at BTC0.25 each.

[borgfish]

Well,

you could lower the prices of the in hand devices if you made sure ppl pay orders of not yet produced ones, and mixed the calculation with the not yet existing ones.
Like 10 PPL putting BTC into excrow, you could be sure its there, and order 30k bitfury chips.

I dont know what additional costs you have, but i think the chips take 2 weeks, maybe production also if the assembly company is not busy ?

I think there could be a real run if you say its .65 btc delivery in 4 weeks. oh nvm the shitstorm if something fails there

[reactor]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

[miter_myles]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

yes I guess the only thing I would have done differently is not hype it.

If you knew the price was to be over $100 a GH just say that you offering to sell prototypes at close to cost and for me,
the best way to get rid of these is a deal where I buy them at this price and in October I get a special price on an equal amount at a much better price.


For example, I'd buy 5 @ BTC2.1 each today and you commit to producing more in October and sell me 5 more at BTC0.25 each.

+2

[joeventura]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

That's not the offer here.

My guess is that at BTC2.1 each they are just breaking even on their costs.

It's sort of like the pharmaceutical industry, when you develop a new medication, the first pill costs 1 billion dollars and the second one is 8 cents.

Same here. They had to buy chips at a very expensive price, they did a short run of boards, which means they were probably 10 bucks each and then they had to be assembled.  Circuit design, components, etc it all adds up.

Clearly you can't charge BTC90 for the first one and BTC0.75 for the next one, the cost has to be spread across all of them.

These folks are not flush in cash to where they can have long term vision and plan to build thousands of them and spread the cost across future sales, they have to spread it across what they have in hand. There are no lost leaders, you have to at least break even.


There is no long term vision in Bitcoins, and that is because Bitcoins change daily.

[GenTarkin]

wow 2.1btc?! for 2.5GH?....um....
Can get 11GH for 4btc....