BPMC Launch BF1 USB miner - probably the fastest USB miner in the World

[kevinm]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

[1715245174]

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[1715245174]

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[1715245174]

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[1715245174]

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[kevinm]

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,
Price is reduced to 1.4 BTC each incl Free International Express Shipping, I will also throw in one of these "BTCminer" USB memory sticks with each order (some are 4 and some are 8GB).



send your order/enquiry request to kevinmaddenndt at hotmaildotcom

cheers,
kev.

[viriat0]

Great news!!


WATCH!! 

[18RATTT]

pop that champagne bottle!!

for more pictures of the making of BitFury USB miner, http://imgur.com/a/54CWY

[mmitech]

Price ?

[btceic]

prices?

[Threader]

at current diff 2.5 GH gets you roughly $55 a month

I wouldn't pay more than $100 +n shipping for these puppies.

Next Diff stop est. 103 mil will knock profits to $45 monthly

[monsieurmarc]

Great news.
Put me down for one!

[BigJon901]

Looking forward to these! Now the big question, price?

[stellan0r]

can you tell us from which country you are shipping? that will be even more important (because of shipping costs and time) than the price of a single unit

(i want at least one  )

[shitaifan2013]

ay caramba! very interested 

[cad_cdn]

interested, Canada shipping?

[Stinky_Pete]

Interested.
Anyone else from the UK? We could maybe share shipping charges.

[bitcoiner49er]

Wait a second! No pre-order? No prototype pictures? Real video and bfgminer confirm?!

SCAM. 

[viriat0]

Wait a second! No pre-order? No prototype pictures? Real video and bfgminer confirm?!

SCAM.  

ahahah

Price?
Shipping?
EU certification?

[awgilyas]

[frankenmint]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

hmm if you follow ASICMINER Figures you are looking at like .9 BTC @ .12 Groupbuy - that would still make my wallet cry...Can I buy them for .5 BTC each?  I'll give you 4.25 BTC right here right now for 4 of them.

[af_newbie]

Is the pricing in range of bitfury h-card?  $500/30GH/s ~= $16/GH

or ~$40/stick, anything more than that would not be worth it.

My guess they will try to ASCIMiner this and go for BTC.99/stick.

[reactor]

I'm sure you've already been PM'd multiple offers for purchasing these, good show!

Only humble request is make some degree of cap on distribution so as many folks as possible can get their hands on these.  Cause it'd suck to see a few people snatch them all up and then do the IPO crap of raising the price exponentially.

[miter_myles]

Is the pricing in range of bitfury h-card?  $500/30GH/s ~= $16/GH

or ~$40/stick, anything more than that would not be worth it.

My guess they will try to ASCIMiner this and go for BTC.99/stick.

People would still buy at that price point though... then the buyer would turn around and ebay it for double/triple boosting that it is essentially the equiv of 7-8 BEs

[jlsminingcorp]

Interested.
Anyone else from the UK? We could maybe share shipping charges.

Hi Stinky_Pete, yes I'd be up for it if they price them sensibly.

[frankenmint]

Is the pricing in range of bitfury h-card?  $500/30GH/s ~= $16/GH

or ~$40/stick, anything more than that would not be worth it.

My guess they will try to ASCIMiner this and go for BTC.99/stick.

People would still buy at that price point though... then the buyer would turn around and ebay it for double/triple boosting that it is essentially the equiv of 7-8 BEs

*sigh* Sadly...

[Xian01]

Very interested in upgrading my USB-Erupter-filled USB hubs to these units if the price is competitive.

Good luck with the product launch, gentlemen.

[btceic]

Please sell these to the community so that we can ROI.

[dropt]

Protip:  Unless the chips were bought awhile ago, the current price is ~108$ per (chip).  So you can expect to be paying *at least* that.

[btceic]

Protip:  Unless the chips were bought awhile ago, the current price is ~108$ per (chip).  So you can expect to be paying *at least* that.

Is that their wholesale cost?

[kendog77]

Protip:  Unless the chips were bought awhile ago, the current price is ~108$ per (chip).  So you can expect to be paying *at least* that.

I hope they didn't pay $108 per chip. A 2.5 GH chip at $108 will never ROI, and that doesn't even include the other parts and assembly! 

[gudmunsn]

I would like to buy some of these as well. Please put me down asap if there is any kind of a list

[console_cowboy]

Yes, these look quite nice. I'd really like to have 2-3 myself, just to play with. I love new hardware!

[dropt]

Is that their wholesale cost?

I wish I knew.  I'm only going off what's posted as a single chip price at megabigpower.com   I can't remember the reel count, but August delivery was something like $198,000 for a reel.  IIRC correctly there was a brief period of time where sample chips were $20, but I could very well be mistaken.

I hope they didn't pay $108 per chip. A 2.5 GH chip at $108 will never ROI, and that doesn't even include the other parts and assembly! 

I hope they didn't either, but I wouldn't be surprised.  So many people are here blinded by the light that they're grossly over paying for hardware.  It never used to be like this, the April bubble has really changed the dynamic of the mining scene.

[Bogart]

You can buy 300 55nm BitFury chips for 108 BTC in Zefir's GB:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288718.0

[volosator]

What usb hubs do you use?

[joeventura]

I'd love to buy them, but with BTC at $124 at BTC2 per that's almost $100 a GH and at BTC1 per its about $50 per GH

These prices are PURE speculation and I do not know what the price is going to be.

My hope is they are cheaper (per GH) than Block Erupters. Because just in the USB hub slots that they save that, for me adds a $5 per slot value to them.  Its like a 7.5 to 1 ratio on these to Block Erupters which is really nice!!!

Great product and wish you great success!!

[Reckman]

I'd love to buy them, but with BTC at $124 at BTC2 per that's almost $100 a GH and at BTC1 per its about $50 per GH

These prices are PURE speculation and I do not know what the price is going to be.

My hope is they are cheaper (per GH) than Block Erupters. Because just in the USB hub slots that they save that, for me adds a $5 per slot value to them.  Its like a 7.5 to 1 ratio on these to Block Erupters which is really nice!!!

Great product and wish you great success!!

You guys are all neglecting the increased efficiency of the Bitfury chip vs 110nm Avalon/ASICMiner

[CeeCee]

can't wait to see the price but as most people i think they will go the Asicminer way and sell them for 2BTC but let's wait what tomorrow brings.
it would be nice if they sell those usb hubs too. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1074129513/2_0_usb_hub_powered_china.html

anyone who could recommend another well powered usb hub like this?

[joeventura]

I'd love to buy them, but with BTC at $124 at BTC2 per that's almost $100 a GH and at BTC1 per its about $50 per GH

These prices are PURE speculation and I do not know what the price is going to be.

My hope is they are cheaper (per GH) than Block Erupters. Because just in the USB hub slots that they save that, for me adds a $5 per slot value to them.  Its like a 7.5 to 1 ratio on these to Block Erupters which is really nice!!!

Great product and wish you great success!!

You guys are all neglecting the increased efficiency of the Bitfury chip vs 110nm Avalon/ASICMiner

Not neglecting it at all, I think this product is awesome and at the right price it will cause thousands and thousands of Block Erupters to be plucked from their USB ports and tossed aside.

Like everything Bitcoin, its a matter of timing and price. I think these guys have a great feel for this community and they will be very successful. They have already proven themselves trustworthy and they have GREAT communications!!!

[dragonkid]

Interested.
Anyone else from the UK? We could maybe share shipping charges.

I am in the UK. So we can share shipping charges. 

[Stinky_Pete]

Not neglecting it at all, I think this product is awesome and at the right price it will cause thousands and thousands of Block Erupters to be plucked from their USB ports and tossed aside.

OP says 'limited numbers'.

[joeventura]

Not neglecting it at all, I think this product is awesome and at the right price it will cause thousands and thousands of Block Erupters to be plucked from their USB ports and tossed aside.

OP says 'limited numbers'.

Until they start selling like crazy

[bitcoiner49er]

Well at current pricing (.12-.15BTC) you can get 2.5GH/s for 0.96-1.2BTC with ASICminer block erupters. Maybe even less depending...

These would need to be around .5BTC for me to be interested in buying one or more. I'm doubtful.

[junp]

i'm interested too to this new usb miners...
HERE you can see that bitfur chips will cost about 0.15BTC (20$) for 3000 units, and provides 2.7GH with 1w of consumption...
a normal USB port provides 2.5W, so they can put 2 chips for each to get 5.4gh@2w and a total cost of about 60$... and I guess to overclock up to 6,75GH@2.5W...
that's a dream come true...


I've done a mistake...it's 0.8W/GHS, so te maximum will be 3,1GHS for erupter...already good!

[kendog77]

Well at current pricing (.12-.15BTC) you can get 2.5GH/s for 0.96-1.2BTC with ASICminer block erupters. Maybe even less depending...

These would need to be around .5BTC for me to be interested in buying one or more. I'm doubtful.

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

At least these show the potential of BitFury chips and hopefully we'll see readily available, cheaper products in the future that actually have a shot at ROI.

[Threader]

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

I disagree. A 1 BTC price they will have ROI but it will take 3-4 months.

Would I pay 1 BTC, No but nonetheless ROI is possible but small potatoes.

[joeventura]

Well at current pricing (.12-.15BTC) you can get 2.5GH/s for 0.96-1.2BTC with ASICminer block erupters. Maybe even less depending...

These would need to be around .5BTC for me to be interested in buying one or more. I'm doubtful.

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

At least these show the potential of BitFury chips and hopefully we'll see readily available, cheaper products in the future that actually have a shot at ROI.

If they come out at BTC0.75  ($37 a GH) I will replace all my Block Erupters with them.

[OtaconEmmerich]

I think I'll wait till October when Bitfury chips are more cheaper, I'm glad to see the product is finished and selling now.

[bitcoiner49er]

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

I disagree. A 1 BTC price they will have ROI but it will take 3-4 months.

Would I pay 1 BTC, No but nonetheless ROI is possible but small potatoes.

My (conservative) estimates say no ROI for BTC1. More current estimates following recent difficulties say BTC0.75 is too much.

[kendog77]

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

I disagree. A 1 BTC price they will have ROI but it will take 3-4 months.

Would I pay 1 BTC, No but nonetheless ROI is possible but small potatoes.

I disagree, so good luck with that! You may want to double check your math because 2.5 GH only earns 0.0145 BTC per day at current difficulty, so you're looking at 69 days to ROI if you pay 1 BTC and exclude difficulty increases and electricity.

The trouble is that difficulty increases are insane right now (~30% every 10 days), and you likely won't get these and start mining before the next difficulty increase to over 110 million.

[keeron]

Excellent news!

Sad that this is going to be limited, but it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully their factories are cranking out these like crazy. If they are priced right (not equivalent to AM, but cheaper), this will sell like hot cakes. I would imagine people waiting for BFL to cancel and buy 2 of these (~5 Ghs). Folks using AM to just add on these miners.

This has to be less than $100 (somewhere close to 50-70 ideally). Otherwise there's no point in introducing something that's not going to see any ROI in atleast a year.

[stellan0r]

FYI, shipping is from Indonesia!

[spoid]

Well it would be inherently pointless for them to price them above the easily available block erupters, so I think they will be priced just a tiny bit below those.

[jeroenn13]

Interested in this product.
Will wait on prices.

[smiley123]

I concur. I will be shocked if these are priced under 1 BTC each, and at that price they will never ROI.

I disagree. A 1 BTC price they will have ROI but it will take 3-4 months.

Would I pay 1 BTC, No but nonetheless ROI is possible but small potatoes.

I disagree, so good luck with that! You may want to double check your math because 2.5 GH only earns 0.0145 BTC per day at current difficulty, so you're looking at 69 days to ROI if you pay 1 BTC and exclude difficulty increases and electricity.

The trouble is that difficulty increases are insane right now (~30% every 10 days), and you likely won't get these and start mining before the next difficulty increase to over 110 million.

I agree with what kendog77 is saying here.  If you are plugging figures into a mining calculator like the TGB one, you need to throw out the first row of results to get a better prediction on ROI.

[rTech]

wow amazing its nice to see more usb stick miners hopefully price will be under 1btc.

[junp]

chip + usb chipset + development&mounting
the REAL price should be NOT more than 0,3 BTC!!!

[Vorksholk]

At 0.63BTC each, these would be priced very fairly and offer good ROI, much more than that and it's a gamble, much less and BPMC is underselling themselves.

[tempestb]

Auction them to highest bidders.  Find the sweet spot on what people are going to pay and then follow through on future orders with that.

Same thing Asicminer did.  Get yours.

[keeron]

Auction them to highest bidders.  Find the sweet spot on what people are going to pay and then follow through on future orders with that.

Same thing Asicminer did.  Get yours.

Though with AM, there weren't many options available when they did the auctions. If the BF1 USB miners are auctioned at say 0.9 BTC, you can get the asicminer USB sticks for .10 each (0.9 BTC for ~2.6 GH/s). This is bulk pricing, but still.

The only reason to auction would be if they are still behind doing mass production and want to get some units out in the community. I think the folks who paid 50 BTC for the AM blades showed us something (i.e. never bid crazy on these ASICs...)

[forevernoob]

These are basically the same ones that barntech was selling in the group buy forums, right?

[ooeygooeygold]

Interested will being watching!

[bitterdog]

These are basically the same ones that barntech was selling in the group buy forums, right?

Bingo!

[btceic]

These are basically the same ones that barntech was selling in the group buy forums, right?

Bingo!

Link?

[HTML5 Gordon]

These are basically the same ones that barntech was selling in the group buy forums, right?

Bingo!

Link?

Here you go (GB is closed now):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266235.0

[Bicknellski]

Wait a second! No pre-order? No prototype pictures? Real video and bfgminer confirm?!

SCAM. 

The scam of the year.

[btceic]

These are basically the same ones that barntech was selling in the group buy forums, right?

Bingo!

Link?

Here you go (GB is closed now):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266235.0

Thanks,
So they previously sold them for $99 a piece? I was hoping for a more realistic price range.

[Bicknellski]

Realism is two sided.

1. Cost of production.
2. Density vs. other hub based miners.

Obviously you have to do the calculations and do what is best and I mean that for those selling and those buying. We hope to find that razor thin line between profit and ROI. Unfortunately the earlier the BitFury chip the thinner that line comes and given that reality prices have to be minimally worth our time and effort to sell them in all deference to quick ROI timelines and future difficulty.

I have previously stated even with the K1 Nanos that we need, as a COOP, to mine them or sell them and that is what will happen here. We will put up a price not to gouge the community rather to make a small profit for us and get product into the marketplace even if it is not the best price it does help push other vendors to lower their costs and that benefits everyone. If that is not possible we will mine the units so please make sure you do your calculations and make that decision carefully but make no mistake we will offer up miners for sale. The marketplace will decide as it should be.

We are still up in the air for October BitFury chips and whether it is feasible given the slim margins we might simply move on to a newer generation chip (not USB) and try to get those to market. Alternatively we could help the DIY community by fabricating RedFury's with your chips, but again that is not set in stone and merely on the drawing board and given the margins not profitable for people given the time limits and difficulty jumps. Suffice to say we will do what we can to offer the best price but given the realities I am not sure if we can satisfy everyone.

[Sitarow]

Realism is two sided.

1. Cost of production.
2. Density vs. other hub based miners.

Obviously you have to do the calculations and do what is best and I mean that for those selling and those buying. We hope to find that razor thin line between profit and ROI. Unfortunately the earlier the BitFury chip the thinner that line comes and given that reality prices have to be minimally worth our time and effort to sell them in all deference to quick ROI timelines and future difficulty.

I have previously stated even with the K1 Nanos that we need, as a COOP, to mine them or sell them and that is what will happen here. We will put up a price not to gouge the community rather to make a small profit for us and get product into the marketplace even if it is not the best price it does help push other vendors to lower their costs and that benefits everyone. If that is not possible we will mine the units so please make sure you do your calculations and make that decision carefully but make no mistake we will offer up miners for sale. The marketplace will decide as it should be.

We are still up in the air for October BitFury chips and whether it is feasible given the slim margins we might simply move on to a newer generation chip (not USB) and try to get those to market. Alternatively we could help the DIY community by fabricating RedFury's with your chips, but again that is not set in stone and merely on the drawing board and given the margins not profitable for people given the time limits and difficulty jumps. Suffice to say we will do what we can to offer the best price but given the realities I am not sure if we can satisfy everyone.

All good options

[cdogster]

I am interested in purchasing some of these.  Please PM me.

[lyth0s]

How many of these devices will you have for sale initially and how many are you guys able to make per day/week?

I hoping for $30-35/GH, guess we will find out tomorrow

[Beastlymac]

How many of these devices will you have for sale initially and how many are you guys able to make per day/week?

I hoping for $30-35/GH, guess we will find out tomorrow

We are capable of making 300-400 units a day. Pricing comes soon

[Bicknellski]

How many of these devices will you have for sale initially and how many are you guys able to make per day/week?

I hoping for $30-35/GH, guess we will find out tomorrow

We are capable of making 300-400 units a day. Pricing comes soon

Possibly more depending on how many fabricators we use.

Kevin... a few people have been asking about your hubs in the video?

Are they for sale?

[kano]

...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276791.msg3107683#msg3107683

[Beastlymac]

...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276791.msg3107683#msg3107683

That is a different product.

[kano]

This also?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg3114347#msg3114347

I've no idea

[Beastlymac]

This also?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg3114347#msg3114347

I've no idea

Yes, that is our product.

[dave111223]

Price?  Min. order quantity?

I noticed in the video you appear to be in a tropical environment, hopefully near Thailand for cheap shipping?

[Bicknellski]

Price?  Min. order quantity?

I noticed in the video you appear to be in a tropical environment, hopefully near Thailand for cheap shipping?

Shipping from Batam (Indonesia)
Price: Wait for tomorrow.
Min Order: None that I know of. 5 Min Order Quantity.

[dave111223]

Price?  Min. order quantity?

I noticed in the video you appear to be in a tropical environment, hopefully near Thailand for cheap shipping?

Shipping from Batam (Indonesia)
Price: Wait for tomorrow.
Min Order: None that I know of.

No chance any of you guys are going to the Singapore GP next week is there?

[Bicknellski]

Have to ask Kev... he might.  

Send him a PM.

[lajz99]

Can you tell us what the process will be for ordering?

[Bicknellski]

Can you tell us what the process will be for ordering?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292433.msg3129979#msg3129979

Check the 2nd post by Kev... he added that information.

[kevinm]

How many of these devices will you have for sale initially and how many are you guys able to make per day/week?

I hoping for $30-35/GH, guess we will find out tomorrow

We are capable of making 300-400 units a day. Pricing comes soon

Possibly more depending on how many fabricators we use.

Kevin... a few people have been asking about your hubs in the video?

Are they for sale?

I need all of my hubs, 
best get hubs direct from the manufacturer as they are heavy.
There would be little or no profit to be had in reselling.

cheers,
kev

[bobsag3]

PM'ed

[dave111223]

Price is 2.1 BTC each incl International Express Shipping.

2.1 BTC?  So an ROI of at least -1.2BTC?

[ElitePork]

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,
Price is 2.1 BTC each incl International Express Shipping.

send your order request to kevinmaddenndt at hotmaildotcom

cheers,
kev.

2.1 BTC each means 0.84BTC/GH/s? so min order is 10.5BTC for ~12.5GH/s?
 

[bobsag3]

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,
Price is 2.1 BTC each incl International Express Shipping.

send your order request to kevinmaddenndt at hotmaildotcom

cheers,
kev.

2.1 BTC each means 0.84BTC/GH/s? so min order is 10.5BTC for ~12.5GH/s?
 

And I thought the USB Asicminer stuff was bad

[kevinm]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

[lajz99]

Unwatch / disable notifications

[dave111223]

[bobsag3]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Where do you get the BEs are .35 each? They are available from a whole smattering of people (including myself) for a maximum of .18.
The chips may have cost you $130, but the sad reality of all this stuff is something that is worth $130 one week is worth half that 2 weeks later.

[mmitech]

Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC

wrong, they sell for 0.15 for US end customers, and 0.21 for Europe end customers.

good luck selling these to some suckers

[erk]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

I bought some ASICminer BE a few days ago at 0.175BTC, next batch I am told will be about 0.16BTC ea.

[Bicknellski]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?
How many hubs would you need to buy to get the same hash rate?

Again... we are not trying to SUCKER anyone. Clearly anyone can do the math and determine the answer on ROI but remember to factor in the hubs into the equation. With this run of units we are constrained by the cost of the chips as I warned. What we do not sell we will mine.

[bobsag3]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

[dave111223]

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

They don't ROI even with no hubs and rubbing sticks together for power.

[mmitech]

they all want to get rich out of miners, they found out that this is the best way. pathetic ...

[bobsag3]

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

They don't ROI even with no hubs and rubbing sticks together for power.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/609a8142a2

Never ROI unless we see smaller than 30% monthly jumps from here on out...lol

[Bicknellski]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

When?

[Bicknellski]

they all want to get rich out of miners, they found out that this is the best way. pathetic ...

That is wholly untrue.

Rich? I suggest you might want to find out the cost of fabrication and add that chip price to it then the time and effort for the development etc... there is no one in the Coop getting rich off these units. We priced where we can make a small profit for our members. We can't do any more than that with this run of units so do the calculations and determine if it is worth it. Not much more we can do than say that. But please do not think we are trying sucker people we want to offer the units out to the community if they buy they buy if they don't they don't.

[crazy_rabbit]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

When you say they are re-programmable, to what extent is that possible? Could they be reprogrammed to work with VanityGen for example, to allow for custom Vanity addressess to be generated?

[bobsag3]

Assuming a price of ~120 a chip, at current exchange rates Im still seeing over 150 in other costs. If you include a "small" profit, are yalls assembly costs really more expensive than the chip?

[Bicknellski]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

When you say they are re-programmable, to what extent is that possible? Could they be reprogrammed to work with VanityGen for example, to allow for custom Vanity addressess to be generated?

My guess Kev is talking about new firmware for CGMiner if we can get that done. Interesting though maybe that is possible we can ask the EE on that.

[Bicknellski]

$130 per chip... already 10$ out.

[mmitech]

they all want to get rich out of miners, they found out that this is the best way. pathetic ...

That is wholly untrue.

Rich? I suggest you might want to find out the cost of fabrication and add that chip price to it then the time and effort for the development etc... there is no one in the Coop getting rich off these units. We priced where we can make a small profit for our members. We can't do any more than that with this run of units so do the calculations and determine if it is worth it. Not much more we can do than say that. But please do not think we are trying sucker people we want to offer the units out to the community if they buy they buy if they don't they don't.

we wont argue about your intentions, but who ever buy these at this price is a real sucker.

[Bicknellski]

Assuming a price of ~120 a chip, at current exchange rates Im still seeing over 150 in other costs. If you include a "small" profit, are yalls assembly costs really more expensive than the chip?

130$ is what we paid. Not at current exchange.

You have not calculated everything in and not accounted for the size of the production run, I would love to see your exact cost breakdown from start to finish including the EE etc. Your off the cuff calculations do not match with my spreadsheet.

I suggest that the "profit" here is minimal given the numbers produced and the time and money invested just to get this prototype working. Obviously $130 (1 BTC) would be selling at a loss. So again we are not gouging we are not profiteering here we are putting out a unit at the best price we can offer if people do want to buy that is the situation.

[keeron]

Really unhappy with the pricing. With it being 1btc, would have picked up quite a few. With it being 2.1 (and all the args about USB hubs and extra ports), I will go to AM any day. .10 is their bulk price, and .16 is for anyone (no min) from Canary's group buy thread. You get these in couple of days!

Sorry but you had a great opportunity that you just blew up.

[bobsag3]

Assuming a price of ~120 a chip, at current exchange rates Im still seeing over 150 in other costs. If you include a "small" profit, are yalls assembly costs really more expensive than the chip?

130$ is what we paid. Not at current exchange.

You have not calculated everything in and not accounted for the size of the production run, I would love to see your exact cost breakdown from start to finish including the EE etc. Your off the cuff calculations do not match with my spreadsheet.

I suggest that the "profit" here is minimal given the numbers produced and the time and money invested just to get this prototype working. Obviously $130 (1 BTC) would be selling at a loss. So again we are not gouging we are not profiteering here we are putting out a unit at the best price we can offer if people do want to buy that is the situation.

I assume you paid $130 per chip. In USD.
At current exchange rates you are asking almost $300 (2.1 *130/per miner)

I didnt calculate anything beyond that. Nothing "off the cuff" or anything of the sort. I am just asking did it really cost $100+ per unit in R&D, manufacture etc.

[Bicknellski]

they all want to get rich out of miners, they found out that this is the best way. pathetic ...

That is wholly untrue.

Rich? I suggest you might want to find out the cost of fabrication and add that chip price to it then the time and effort for the development etc... there is no one in the Coop getting rich off these units. We priced where we can make a small profit for our members. We can't do any more than that with this run of units so do the calculations and determine if it is worth it. Not much more we can do than say that. But please do not think we are trying sucker people we want to offer the units out to the community if they buy they buy if they don't they don't.

we wont argue about your intentions, but who ever buy these at this price is a real sucker.

Well the sort of language "sucker" seems to me unfair and not really germane to what we are trying to provide in terms of these units and their value. Again do careful calculations and make your choice. Also I would hasten to add there is a value to having these in the hands of the bitcoin community in terms of balancing the marketplace. If you simply ignore the competition pricing policies that are predatory and then put this offering on the same plane you are missing the future potential that more products like this have to stop that sort of predatory pricing. There is often MORE value in supporting a competitor today so that diversity allows for lower prices tomorrow. Just something to think about when you are calling people suckers. I see it more as supporting competition as the second or third run of these units will fall more closely to price / ROI expectations. Of course that is my own SPIN on this... you can agree or disagree.

[monsieurmarc]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

[Bicknellski]

Really unhappy with the pricing. With it being 1btc, would have picked up quite a few. With it being 2.1 (and all the args about USB hubs and extra ports), I will go to AM any day. .10 is their bulk price, and .16 is for anyone (no min) from Canary's group buy thread. You get these in couple of days!

Sorry but you had a great opportunity that you just blew up.

There is either we sell at the price you expect and do that at a loss or we do it at a price we can afford to let them go. If that is a disappointment to you I am sorry, and given our history with community this is not the end or it has BLOWN UP... we are being forthright and honest to the community. Here is the price. Calculate carefully and make your choice. I am sure our other units in the future will not have as a razor thin margin and we can make a much better effort next time. Let's not get all end of the world about this... we have posted a price but it is not the last thing our COOP will produce.

[crazy_rabbit]

The thing that always gets me about people complaining about the price of ASIC's is this: How much would you sell your machine that prints money for? That's essentially the question. You sell it for more money then it prints.Thats the answer (essentially, minus consideration for electricity costs and other stuff). So ASIC vendors in their right mind always have to sell them for more then they make, and ASIC purchasers are always taking the risk they never make their money back. Essentially. But no need to call people names about it. If you don't want to pay 2.1 BTC, don't buy them. It's not like they mind the inventory languishing in the warehouse. And by warehouse I mean USB hubs.

[Bicknellski]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

[Beastlymac]

If people are wondering why the cost is what it is.
Some reasons:
- we need to recover what we invested
- we payed extra for development chips
- we payed extra for getting components and fab as fast as possible
- chip alone costs 1BTC
- payed for all the hubs to test them on
- transferring hardware around
- labour costs

Everything adds up. We wish we could sell these at $50 but in reality it is impossible. When bitfury chip price drops we will be able to offer our units considerably cheaper. It is not cheap designing a new USB miner. I understand people wanting to get them cheap. These are almost 8x more powerful then the nearest competitor. If we where able to get chips cheaper then we would happily sell the units cheaper. But we can't sell at a loss.

If you have any problems feel free to contact any of our team and we will do our best to answer them.

[bobsag3]

If people are wondering why the cost is what it is.
Some reasons:
- we need to recover what we invested
- we payed extra for development chips
- we payed extra for getting components and fab as fast as possible
- chip alone costs 1BTC
- payed for all the hubs to test them on
- transferring hardware around
- labour costs

Everything adds up. We wish we could sell these at $50 but in reality it is impossible. When bitfury chip price drops we will be able to offer our units considerably cheaper. It is not cheap designing a new USB miner. I understand people wanting to get them cheap. These are almost 8x more powerful then the nearest competitor. If we where able to get chips cheaper then we would happily sell the units cheaper. But we can't sell at a loss.

If you have any problems feel free to contact any of our team and we will do our best to answer them.

See thats what I was looking for.
Already emailed about ordering.

[mmitech]

Really unhappy with the pricing. With it being 1btc, would have picked up quite a few. With it being 2.1 (and all the args about USB hubs and extra ports), I will go to AM any day. .10 is their bulk price, and .16 is for anyone (no min) from Canary's group buy thread. You get these in couple of days!

Sorry but you had a great opportunity that you just blew up.

There is either we sell at the price you expect and do that at a loss or we do it at a price we can afford to let them go. If that is a disappointment to you I am sorry, and given our history with community this is not the end or it has BLOWN UP... we are being forthright and honest to the community. Here is the price. Calculate carefully and make your choice. I am sure our other units in the future will not have as a razor thin margin and we can make a much better effort next time. Let's not get all end of the world about this... we have posted a price but it is not the last thing our COOP will produce.

well you are really not offering any kind of competition here, these prices doesn't encourage the end user to invest in mining.... when I think about buying a miner I would like to get my investment back after X months, then yes any one buying these for 2.1 will never return his investment which means that he want to burn his money, or simply he is a sucker so sorry to put it out this way .

The thing that always gets me about people complaining about the price of ASIC's is this: How much would you sell your machine that prints money for? That's essentially the question. You sell it for more money then it prints.Thats the answer (essentially, minus consideration for electricity costs and other stuff). So ASIC vendors in their right mind always have to sell them for more then they make, and ASIC purchasers are always taking the risk they never make their money back. Essentially. But no need to call people names about it. If you don't want to pay 2.1 BTC, don't buy them. It's not like they mind the inventory languishing in the warehouse. And by warehouse I mean USB hubs.

think again about the definition of a printing machine, let me help you out, a printing machine is that machine you pay for with X BTC and get Y BTC, and Y>X , a machine that costs more than what will ever make is not a money printing machine but a waste of money and energy, well it is a printing money machine only for the seller because he will make more money out of it if he simply sell than mine.  

Edit: crazy_rabbit sorry I just realized that we were talking about the same point here, my apologies

[monsieurmarc]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

I can't imagine I would want to either. 
Maybe he can be bribed with alcohol 

[Datto]

With the Diff due to rise again in the next couple of days, this will affect the selling price of every ASIC device majorly .
Unless the device can pay for its self within the 4 months it will not sell.
While 10GHs blades at 4BTC and Erupters  running at 3GHs (9 * 0.0109) 1BTC are just about dumping there stock in a panic
before another diff change.
These BF1 at 2.3GHs 2.1BTC will most likely not sell on this forum
might see panic selling in the next couple of weeks

[dave111223]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

Yes putting a $290 item that you selling into a box is such a chore.  

[Bicknellski]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

Yes putting a $290 item that you selling into a box is such a chore.  

Sure is if you are the only one doing it 1000x.

[Datto]

Yes putting a $290 item that you selling into a box is such a chore.  
[/quote]

Sure is if you are the only one doing it 1000x.
[/quote]

Dont think there is going to be any 1000x sales at this price lol

[jeroenn13]

Also not interested in this price.

[Aggrophobia]

Assuming a price of ~120 a chip, at current exchange rates Im still seeing over 150 in other costs. If you include a "small" profit, are yalls assembly costs really more expensive than the chip?

130$ is what we paid. Not at current exchange.

You have not calculated everything in and not accounted for the size of the production run, I would love to see your exact cost breakdown from start to finish including the EE etc. Your off the cuff calculations do not match with my spreadsheet.

I suggest that the "profit" here is minimal given the numbers produced and the time and money invested just to get this prototype working. Obviously $130 (1 BTC) would be selling at a loss. So again we are not gouging we are not profiteering here we are putting out a unit at the best price we can offer if people do want to buy that is the situation.

So i have to say you propably suck at math and miscalculated your business,
i predict you only 70% ROI and you have to sell for a loss if you didn't mine yourself...

[dave111223]

Yes putting a $290 item that you selling into a box is such a chore.  

Sure is if you are the only one doing it 1000x.

If you handed me > 1/4 million dollars and said put 1000 items into boxes...I'd prolly do it.

[kevinm]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Where do you get the BEs are .35 each? They are available from a whole smattering of people (including myself) for a maximum of .18.
The chips may have cost you $130, but the sad reality of all this stuff is something that is worth $130 one week is worth half that 2 weeks later.

Yes I am aware of that thanks.
Unfortunately the production costs of a cpl of hundred is much more expensive than 1000's at a time.
Thats where ASICMINER has the edge over us small timers.

cheers,
kev

[Unacceptable]

Can you say........oh fuck

http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-reel-fifo/

Works out to about $30 per chip....................................

[xstr8guy]

Ever wonder how many USB Block Erupters have been sold so far?  I bet ASICMiner have sold over a million units.  I have 70 myself.  Yeah I know, "Sucker!  You'll never ROI."  Lol, whatever.

These will be the new ASICMiner USB Erupters... just wait.  The pattern will repeat.  In the beginning there will be dozens of bitcoin-rich early-adopters scooping these up as fast as BPMC can ship them.  The chip prices will come down, BPMC will have made the initial investment back and the price will drop... and then continue to drop.  Within 2 months, you'll see dozens of Ebay listings from resellers who will be selling these by the thousands.

And by then I'll probably be pulling my BEs out of my hubs and replacing them with these new beauties.  

But yeah, I won't be buying any until the price falls a bit.  I'd buy one just for kicks but since they're not selling single units, I'll have to wait a bit.

[bbxx]

i would buy some if price would be below 0.6 BTC

30$ chip + 30$ pcb+labour+handling

i hope it will be aviable in next weeks

[bbxx]

Ever wonder how many USB Block Erupters have been sold so far?  I bet ASICMiner have sold over a million units.  I have 70 myself.  Yeah I know, "Sucker!"  Lol.

These will be the new ASICMiner USB Erupters... just wait.  The pattern will repeat.  In the beginning there will be dozens of bitcoin-rich early-adopters scooping these up as fast as BPMC can ship them.  The chip prices will come down, BPMC will have made the initial investment back and the price will drop... and then continue to drop.  Within 2 months, you'll see dozens of Ebay listings from resellers who will be selling these by the thousands.

And by then I'll probably be pulling my BEs out of my hubs and replacing them with these new beauties.  

you will ship your erupters to Russia
they will make huge hubs for 200+ devices
and power from wind/solar

[kevinm]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

[xstr8guy]

you will ship your erupters to Russia
they will make huge hubs for 200+ devices
and power from wind/solar

We can only dream that 3 month old BEs will have any resale value whatsoever. 

[viriat0]

2.10BTC?? ahahah overpriced!! SUPER OVERPRICED!!

Price for Fan Boys!

I'm buying? NOT!!

[mmitech]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you said that you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked either ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker and it doesn't count    

[Bicknellski]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

I can't imagine I would want to either. 
Maybe he can be bribed with alcohol 

I am sure he does like a beer every now and again.

[Bicknellski]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked both ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker then it doesn't count    

No I don't think we and our customers are as FUCKED as much as we would have been if we kept going on something like the K1 Nano, we are not really that out of tune as you think we are that is the beauty of being part of a COOP there are plenty of people to point out how the math is going to go. It is all relative. This miner was built. It exists. I think that value alone puts the production at breakeven or small profit in perspective. Personally and for many of our members I have to say having USB miners in the marketplace that is in direct competition with bigger players that are functional is a minor achievement and makes us happy. If we make a few bucks great. If we have to mine for an extended period to make back our investment ok... but to be honest having the design and tech for a second round with cheaper chips means we are hardly FUCKED nor the community as we will as prices drop pass that along. So much doom and gloom there are actually positive aspects to this unit here is hoping people see that if not today possibly in a few weeks.


You might want to also keep an eye on our longer term plans as we are confident that future projects we have will be right inline with what people need and expect from mining gear. The days of the individual miner might be gone or going but as we are sort of showing people can band together and get products from design board to the marketplace.

[kevinm]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

When you say they are re-programmable, to what extent is that possible? Could they be reprogrammed to work with VanityGen for example, to allow for custom Vanity addressess to be generated?

We use an ATMEL - ATMEGA32U2-AU which is 8 Bit 32KB mem controller.
you can find out all the details about programming on the ATMEL website.

cheers,
kev.

[mmitech]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked both ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker then it doesn't count    

No I don't think we and our customers are as FUCKED as much as we would have been if we kept going on something like the K1 Nano, we are not really that out of tune as you think we are that is the beauty of being part of a COOP there are plenty of people to point out how the math is going to go. It is all relative. This miner was built. It exists. I think that value alone puts the production at breakeven or small profit in perspective. Personally and for many of our members I have to say having USB miners in the marketplace that is in direct competition with bigger players that are functional is a minor achievement and makes us happy. If we make a few bucks great. If we have to mine for an extended period to make back our investment ok... but to be honest having the design and tech for a second round with cheaper chips means we are hardly FUCKED nor the community as we will as prices drop pass that along. So much doom and gloom there are actually positive aspects to this unit here is hoping people see that if not today possibly in a few weeks.

I do not see where is the competition ? in making a hardware way over priced than any other existing hardware ? the only competition you are making is the reverse one, any one can grab a calculator and see that even BEs are better than yours in ROI terms, the only thing I can congratulate you for is making "working prototype" and nothing else, you cant call this competition sir, you are way far from to the closest thing to competition.

and yes this makes it easy for you for the next Run, but Sir till than don't try convince us.

[Vexual]

You could pay some local kids to package them if putting one in a box is too time consuming.

[Bicknellski]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked both ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker then it doesn't count    

No I don't think we and our customers are as FUCKED as much as we would have been if we kept going on something like the K1 Nano, we are not really that out of tune as you think we are that is the beauty of being part of a COOP there are plenty of people to point out how the math is going to go. It is all relative. This miner was built. It exists. I think that value alone puts the production at breakeven or small profit in perspective. Personally and for many of our members I have to say having USB miners in the marketplace that is in direct competition with bigger players that are functional is a minor achievement and makes us happy. If we make a few bucks great. If we have to mine for an extended period to make back our investment ok... but to be honest having the design and tech for a second round with cheaper chips means we are hardly FUCKED nor the community as we will as prices drop pass that along. So much doom and gloom there are actually positive aspects to this unit here is hoping people see that if not today possibly in a few weeks.

I do not see where is the competition ? in making a hardware way over priced than any other existing hardware ? the only competition you are making is the reverse one, any one can grab a calculator and see that even BEs are better than yours in ROI terms, the only thing I can congratulate you for is making "working prototype" and nothing else, you cant call this competition sir, you are way far from to the closest thing to competition.

and yes this makes it easy for you for the next Run, but Sir till than don't try convince us.

Make no USB miners at all...  no competition.

When we posted that we were going to build a K1 and the chips didn't arrive... what happened to the price of the BE's? Let me know if you think being in the market with this Miner is a negative as opposed to having only one place to shop?

[Bicknellski]

You could pay some local kids to package them if putting one in a box is too time consuming.

Kids? Child labour... no thanks.

[Vexual]

You could pay some local kids to package them if putting one in a box is too time consuming.

Kids? Child labour... no thanks.

Well not kids then. Locals. Although it's hardly child labour putting usb sticks in boxes. Sounds like a great pocket money job.

[mmitech]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked both ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker then it doesn't count    

No I don't think we and our customers are as FUCKED as much as we would have been if we kept going on something like the K1 Nano, we are not really that out of tune as you think we are that is the beauty of being part of a COOP there are plenty of people to point out how the math is going to go. It is all relative. This miner was built. It exists. I think that value alone puts the production at breakeven or small profit in perspective. Personally and for many of our members I have to say having USB miners in the marketplace that is in direct competition with bigger players that are functional is a minor achievement and makes us happy. If we make a few bucks great. If we have to mine for an extended period to make back our investment ok... but to be honest having the design and tech for a second round with cheaper chips means we are hardly FUCKED nor the community as we will as prices drop pass that along. So much doom and gloom there are actually positive aspects to this unit here is hoping people see that if not today possibly in a few weeks.

I do not see where is the competition ? in making a hardware way over priced than any other existing hardware ? the only competition you are making is the reverse one, any one can grab a calculator and see that even BEs are better than yours in ROI terms, the only thing I can congratulate you for is making "working prototype" and nothing else, you cant call this competition sir, you are way far from to the closest thing to competition.

and yes this makes it easy for you for the next Run, but Sir till than don't try convince us.

Make no USB miners at all...  no competition.

When we posted that we were going to build a K1 and the chips didn't arrive... what happened to the price of the BE's? Let me know if you think being in the market with this Miner is a negative as opposed to having only one place to shop?

Price didn't drop because of that !!! price dropped because of difficulty, than explain why blades cost only 4BTC? because of your USB miners ?

[xstr8guy]

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you said that you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked either ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker and it doesn't count    

BPMC isn't going to be fucked however you want to look at it.  Did you miss the part where he said that he ultimately didnt care if they sold any?  They'll just mine with whatever they don't sell.

Have you seen the sexy pics of the BPMC farm yet?  It's pretty difficult not to fall in lust and desire a couple hubs filled with those gorgeous sticks after seeing the photos.

[reactor]

^^^
Asicminer BE hashes at 336mh/s these do around 2.5
Asicminer BE's sell to new customers for around 0.3 BTC
this is "in-hand" hardware. the chips alone cost me $130 each
you do the math.

cheers,
kev

Have to look at the density as well.

10 USB ports at 3.36Gh/s vs. 10 USB ports at 25 Gh/s.
Less heat less cooling required etc... so if you are not calculating in hub costs the ROI is going to be skewed right?

Need to factor that in as well into the costs do we not?

Its a large negative ROI either way. Barntech is selling the same basic thing, to be shipped soon for less than half.

I doubt you will see anything from Barntech for at least another month. If We were to order October chips we could probably match his pricing. We are not doing pre-orders or pre-sales, BPMC have learned our lessons from that. It doesnt really matter if we sell these first few or mine them. BPMC were first to market with these, we provided video evidence of hashing "in stock" items. To my knowlege, no other group has done that.

cheers,
kev

Yeah, but since you followed the AM pricing model of $WillNeverROI most folks who were excited about this aren't excited any longer.  Well done on the technical achievement, un-watching this thread however since your pricing model is absurd.

[mmitech]

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you said that you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked either ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker and it doesn't count    

BPMC isn't going to be fucked however you want to look at it.  Did you miss the part where he said that he ultimately didnt care if they sold any?  They'll just mine with whatever they don't sell.

Have you seen the sexy pics of the BPMC farm yet?  It's pretty difficult not to fall in lust and desire a couple hubs filled with those gorgeous sticks after seeing the photos.

yes you are one of the suckers, so you were right all the way suckers gonna buy any ways

[xstr8guy]

Price didn't drop because of that !!! price dropped because of difficulty, than explain why blades cost only 4BTC? because of your USB miners ?

Well you didn't put any thought into your answer, did you?

Of course competition, or the threat of competition, can cause prices to fall.  So can excess inventory, decreased demand, cheaper production and/or material costs, difficulty rise (in the case of bitcoin) and many other reasons or combination of reasons.

What can't happen for any length of time is, you can't sell something for less than it costs to produce.  So quit bitching about overpriced ASICs and go back to mining LTC with your GPUs.  

[xstr8guy]

based on what you said," you have small profit and it is close to nothing" means that if you do not sell for this price you are fucked as well, of course assuming that you were honest when you said that you do not have much profit of them.... if you cant sell, you wont see ROI from mining with them.

so you are fucked either ways, you didn't do your math or you thought the community is still stupid to blindly buy for any price... these times are over, miners got burnt and learned the lesson, again except if you sell to some sucker and it doesn't count    

BPMC isn't going to be fucked however you want to look at it.  Did you miss the part where he said that he ultimately didnt care if they sold any?  They'll just mine with whatever they don't sell.

Have you seen the sexy pics of the BPMC farm yet?  It's pretty difficult not to fall in lust and desire a couple hubs filled with those gorgeous sticks after seeing the photos.

yes you are one of the suckers, so you were right all the way suckers gonna buy any ways

And wannabes are going to keep bitching about what they can't have, when they want it, for the price they're willing to pay.

[xstr8guy]

As Jesse Pinkman would say, "It's economics bitch!"

[mmitech]

Price didn't drop because of that !!! price dropped because of difficulty, than explain why blades cost only 4BTC? because of your USB miners ?

Well you didn't put any thought into your answer, did you?

Of course competition, or the threat of competition, can cause prices to fall.  So can excess inventory, decreased demand, cheaper production and of material costs, difficulty rise (in the case of bitcoin) and many other reasons or combination of reasons.

What can't happen for any length of time is, you can't sell something for less than it costs to produce.  So quit bitching about overpriced ASICs and go back to mining LTC with your GPUs.  

my GPUs make more money than you will ever make with these miners sucker, I am amazed that you still know how to calculate, I thought people like you doesn't know how to use a calculator but you proved that even after using one you still suck.

[xstr8guy]

Price didn't drop because of that !!! price dropped because of difficulty, than explain why blades cost only 4BTC? because of your USB miners ?

Well you didn't put any thought into your answer, did you?

Of course competition, or the threat of competition, can cause prices to fall.  So can excess inventory, decreased demand, cheaper production and of material costs, difficulty rise (in the case of bitcoin) and many other reasons or combination of reasons.

What can't happen for any length of time is, you can't sell something for less than it costs to produce.  So quit bitching about overpriced ASICs and go back to mining LTC with your GPUs.  

my GPUs make more money than you will ever make with these miners sucker, I am amazed that you still know how to calculate, I thought people like you doesn't know how to use a calculator but you proved that even after using one you still suck.

You're real bright, aren't you?   

[crazy_rabbit]

BPMC are very pleased to announce that we have limited numbers of the single BitFury chip USB miner in hand and for sale.
These units are re-programmable and hash at 2.5Gh/s with present installed firmware on bfgminer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB3U7iyiauk

more details tomorrow,

cheers,
kev

When you say they are re-programmable, to what extent is that possible? Could they be reprogrammed to work with VanityGen for example, to allow for custom Vanity addressess to be generated?

We use an ATMEL - ATMEGA32U2-AU which is 8 Bit 32KB mem controller.
you can find out all the details about programming on the ATMEL website.

cheers,
kev.

Okay, but what does that mean practically? Is it just a controller chip meaning you can only reprogram it to control it differently? What sort of scenario did you guys envision as being enabled by reprogramining?

[mmitech]

As Jesse Pinkman would say, "It's economics bitch!"

BTW I do not give a shit about you buying or not, I am discussing the price with original poster out of my point of view, even he didn't get angry!! he is answering my question in a very respectful way, But never mind I told him about people like you. you are just a retard and I have nothing to say to you any more i wont go to your level once again.

[Datto]

1 month to go before there finished mining with these and the PANIC SELL ! will begin

[xstr8guy]

As Jesse Pinkman would say, "It's economics bitch!"

BTW I do not give a shit about you buying or not, I am discussing the price with original poster out of my point of view, even he didn't get angry!! he is answering my question in a very respectful way, But never mind I told him about people like you. you are just a retard and I have nothing to say to you any more i wont go to your level once again.

My level?!  Did you not just call me a "sucker" (several times) and a "retard"?  You couldn't reach my level if you were standing on a ladder.

Simpleton.

Oh and I'm sure the OP has great respect for you since you're shitting all over his thread with your useless whining.

[mmitech]

As Jesse Pinkman would say, "It's economics bitch!"

BTW I do not give a shit about you buying or not, I am discussing the price with original poster out of my point of view, even he didn't get angry!! he is answering my question in a very respectful way, But never mind I told him about people like you. you are just a retard and I have nothing to say to you any more i wont go to your level once again.

My level?!  Did you not just call me a "sucker" (several times) and a "retard"?  You couldn't reach my level if you were standing on a ladder.

Simpleton.

Oh and I'm sure the OP has great respect for you since you're shitting all over his thread with your useless whining.

what are you waiting for? go ahead threw your BTC on them... like I give a shit !!! welcome to my ignore list. end of story....

[Beastlymac]

1 month to go before there finished mining with these and the PANIC SELL ! will begin

This won't happen. As has been said before if we can't sell for a profit then we will just mine.

[crazy_rabbit]

why are people hating on some ASIC guys who ACTUALLY HAVE A PRODUCT READY TO SHIP? I mean seriously, how ungrateful are people? If you don't like the price don't buy it. There are plenty of other options for your money out there, so why make them feel like shit and provoke a fight with them just because it turns out they can't make the product at a price the market wants to pay? It's not like they will go homeless, they will just mine with them.

[erk]

1 month to go before there finished mining with these and the PANIC SELL ! will begin

This won't happen. As has been said before if we can't sell for a profit then we will just mine.

How much profit?

Bitfury chip $20, rest of the parts $20,  2.1BTC = $290


Some comparisons:

Drillbit Bitfury thumb .99BTC 2.5GH/s

Block Erupter USB x 6 = 0.96BTC 2GH/s

Block Erupter blade = 3.9BTC 10/GH/s (ships immediately)

BFL 5GH/s miner = 2BTC

Lets get real with the 2.1BTC pricing, I guess there are suckers out there.

[Bicknellski]

Funny I remember the price dropped as SOON as we posted... BE's not blades and when we dropped our prices they dropped them again in the group buys funny eh? Not because of difficulty. Check the dates on our posts and the price drops in the Block Erupters. Direct correlation when we were running our K1 Nano sales.

I suggest that even when the product is put into the marketplace there are immediate responses from some companies to cut the throats of any competition seems pretty clear. Might want to support efforts for more product choice over the current system. I am sure the market will mature and this little offering will lead to better things.

[viriat0]

1 month to go before there finished mining with these and the PANIC SELL ! will begin

This won't happen. As has been said before if we can't sell for a profit then we will just mine.

How much profit?

Bitfury chip $20, rest of the parts $20,  2.1BTC = $290


Some comparisons:

Drillbit Bitfury thumb .99BTC 2.5GH/s

Block Erupter USB x 6 = 0.96BTC 2GH/s

Block Erupter blade = 3.9BTC 10/GH/s (ships immediately)

BFL 5GH/s miner = 2BTC

Lets get real with the 2.1BTC pricing, I guess there are suckers out there.

+1

You can not forget this

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,

5 Units = 10.5BTC WTF?? = 12.6GH/S
2 Blades = 7/8/9 BTC = 20 GH/S

[Beastlymac]

1 month to go before there finished mining with these and the PANIC SELL ! will begin

This won't happen. As has been said before if we can't sell for a profit then we will just mine.

How much profit?

Bitfury chip $20, rest of the parts $20,  2.1BTC = $290


Some comparisons:

Drillbit Bitfury thumb .99BTC 2.5GH/s

Block Erupter USB x 6 = 0.96BTC 2GH/s

Block Erupter blade = 3.9BTC 10/GH/s (ships immediately)

BFL 5GH/s miner = 2BTC

Lets get real with the 2.1BTC pricing, I guess there are suckers out there.

Chips cost us $130 each.
Rest of the parts also cost more then $20

Those chips that have become available to purchase today. For € 22.5 or $30 USD
They also don't ship till the 20th.

"Chips ship out within 24h (excluding weekends) after placing order starting from 20th of september. (We expect to ship first chips on that date)."
Also these are the only other USB miners proved hashing and on hand.

[dave111223]

I wonder what price people would actually be willing to pay for these.

Let's have a mock auction to find out.  Please only bid if you would realistically actually pay this amount.

I'd pay .5BTC each

Also those who are actually buying at 2.1BTC post in here, as I'm really curious as to how many people are actually buying at that price; especially with the 5qty min. as that pretty much cuts out anyone who would bought as a collectable/curiosity.

BMPC I feel for you, but at some point you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you are probably going to take at least 50% loss on your investment whether you mine yourself or sell them at cut prices; cuz I can't see there being enough "miners" that are going to come in and eat the loss for you

[monbux]

interested, Canada shipping?

Was hoping for Canada shipping too   Hook me up!

[Beastlymac]

interested, Canada shipping?

Was hoping for Canada shipping too   Hook me up!

Canada shipping should be fine.

[xjack]

Funny I remember the price dropped as SOON as we posted... BE's not blades and when we dropped our prices they dropped them again in the group buys funny eh? Not because of difficulty. Check the dates on our posts and the price drops in the Block Erupters. Direct correlation when we were running our K1 Nano sales.

This.  Friedcat is using first mover advantage to Max profits.  Whether you like any of the products or pricing doesn't matter, the new entrants have an uphill battle since he's found that each new competitor and diff increase knocks down a price barrier that he can meet or beat, for now.

[xstr8guy]

why are people hating on some ASIC guys who ACTUALLY HAVE A PRODUCT READY TO SHIP? I mean seriously, how ungrateful are people? If you don't like the price don't buy it. There are plenty of other options for your money out there, so why make them feel like shit and provoke a fight with them just because it turns out they can't make the product at a price the market wants to pay? It's not like they will go homeless, they will just mine with them.

I know.  Right?

I think there are just a lot of bitter, spiteful people for whatever reason.  Some may be bitter that the days of GPU mining for BTC are long gone.  Others just may not have spare cash or BTC to invest and are jealous.  But I think the majority of them just hate change and fear the unknown.

I personally get excited about most of the new product announcements and find it hard to resist diving in head first and joining every damn preorder, lol.  Admittedly, this is still just a hobby for me but fast turning into more of an avocation.  But I don't delude myself and think I'll be able to retire and live off my BTC earnings... ever.  ROI, schmROI!  I'm having a blast doing this!  If I lose a few pennies, I won't starve.  But so far, it's been worth every one of those (many, many) pennies.

[play]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

[miter_myles]

We get the premium eBay pricing to kick off?

eww...

[kano]

...
2 Blades = 7/8/9 BTC = 20 GH/S

Blades are over priced, the BTC cost (~8 BTC for 2 of them) is either above what you will return or just on par with it.
i.e. you give away BTC then MAYBE get it back many months later ... i.e. over priced

[Sitarow]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

[erk]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

BS the reels of chips until recently were $60,000 for 3,000, that's $20 per chip.


Zefir is selling them for .27BTC per chip https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288718.0

Even the July delivery ones were only 21 Euro each http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/

[Beastlymac]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

BS the reels of chips until recently were $60,000 for 3,000, that's $20 per chip.

Reels haven't started shipping yet. Also where are they $60,000? Reels don't start shipping till later this month and the start of next month.

[erk]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

BS the reels of chips until recently were $60,000 for 3,000, that's $20 per chip.

Reels haven't started shipping yet. Also where are they $60,000? Reels don't start shipping till later this month and the start of next month.

http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/ July delivery

[Bicknellski]

We paid going rate $130 per chip when we bought our lot of chips. We already stated that clearly in the thread. Please read.

Looking at October prices doesn't help our math just yours.

[erk]

We paid going rate $130 per chip when we bought our lot of chips. We already stated that clearly in the thread. Please read.

Looking at October prices doesn't help our math just yours.

That's why I posted the July deliver price, but I guess you prefer to cherry pick.

http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/

[Vorksholk]

Awesome product, once you guys get bitfury chips significantly cheaper these will be flying off the shelves. Are you guys looking into having regional resellers? I wonder if CanaryintheMine would be open to doing some...

[Bicknellski]

We paid going rate $130 per chip when we bought our lot of chips. We already stated that clearly in the thread. Please read.

Looking at October prices doesn't help our math just yours.

That's why I posted the July deliver price, but I guess you prefer to cherry pick.

http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

[Bicknellski]

Awesome product, once you guys get bitfury chips significantly cheaper these will be flying off the shelves. Are you guys looking into having regional resellers? I wonder if CanaryintheMine would be open to doing some...

We will do our best only so much you can do with what you got... this is what we got for now.

[mmitech]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

BS the reels of chips until recently were $60,000 for 3,000, that's $20 per chip.

Reels haven't started shipping yet. Also where are they $60,000? Reels don't start shipping till later this month and the start of next month.

I will add this http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-reel-fifo/ , First in First out, and 1 chip is at 22.5€ or 0.21BTC delivery starts on the 20th this month, assuming cost of production is 0.3BTC and the hole process from delivery till assembly will take 2-3 weeks, this means they will be available at max the end of the first week of October.

and even Burnnin is working on a 16 chip mining bar which can perform 43GH/s at nominal speeds , but he said he will target the 5 Gh/s of each chip, lets say this wont work out for him and he will be able to do only 3.2Gh/s ( it has been done) this will give you 51gh/s only for 470€ ~ 4.5BTC

this is why it is worth to wait 2-3 weeks.

[Beastlymac]

We paid going rate $130 per chip when we bought our lot of chips. We already stated that clearly in the thread. Please read.

Looking at October prices doesn't help our math just yours.

That's why I posted the July deliver price, but I guess you prefer to cherry pick.

http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/

We where not able to order these. We did not have a working prototype and we also did not have the up front funds available to pay the $300,000+ that they costed. (They might have been less but I remember them being $300,000+)

[Sitarow]

You should have realized by now that the community has been learning a lot from the past months.

Don't complain about your costs being high... that's your problem. Make better decisions next time.

Almost everyone is in this for the money and the ones who are not just got run over by your minimum order.

So please, improve your pricing.

That may be. Consider that the primary item is over $108 each chip and consider that the price of those asic's are expected to drop for next months orders.

However the unit itself is USB based and cgminer supported and you can flash the firmware.

Hmm sounds like a great tinkering tool for those who want to see what they can do with Bitfury Chips.

BS the reels of chips until recently were $60,000 for 3,000, that's $20 per chip.


Zefir is selling them for .27BTC per chip https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288718.0

Even the July delivery ones were only 21 Euro each http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-55nm-asic-by-reel-july/

You are wrong about the August price as those reals were expensive 300k +
However the old price for October chip Reals was indeed $60k
I purchased chips myself at August price.

https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=33

They had a minimum amount before of 10 chips per order. However now minimum order is 1.

[monsters4r]

Today I would pay 1BTC (+ship) each or 2.1 for two incl. shipping. 

[integrity42]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

Looks like you guys didn't do enough math when purchasing from bitfury -- you overpaid for chips.  Even at $130 just for the chips, they will never ROI

http://www.btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=320&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2500&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=127.38&dpowcon=5&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.15&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

Better plug them all in ASAP and mine with them as fast as you can.  You should also consider lowering the price to 1BTC now , because you will be stuck with useless hardware that will never ROI in a few months and then they'll be worth 0.1BTC...... get rid of this useless inventory asap.

[Sitarow]

Today I would pay 1BTC (+ship) each or 2.1 for two incl. shipping. 

Pay for 2 devices at full price and get the 2nd device free!

[kendog77]

I think you have a great product here, but the price is too high.

I'll order some in the future if the price is competitive in a future batch.

Good luck, having competition for in stock ASIC mining hardware is a good thing!

[Sitarow]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

Better plug them all in ASAP and mine with them as fast as you can.  You should also consider lowering the price to 1BTC now , because you will be stuck with useless hardware that will never ROI in a few months and then they'll be worth 0.1BTC...... get rid of this useless inventory asap.

Not everyone will buy them for profit in btc.

[Bicknellski]

Ignored LackofIntegrity.

We did all sorts of math unfortunately you don't like the math we have used. Like addition where we added up what it costs us to produce the units and the difference between that and making a small profit versus mining the units.

Buy if you want or don't but SCREAMING like that for no other reason to spread FUD is a bit much. 28 posts and WHAM! Wonders never cease.

[Beastlymac]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

Better plug them all in ASAP and mine with them as fast as you can.  You should also consider lowering the price to 1BTC now , because you will be stuck with useless hardware that will never ROI in a few months and then they'll be worth 0.1BTC...... get rid of this useless inventory asap.

No, if we can't sell them we will mine with them. Been said already we are not under any financial difficulty so we have no need to lower the price if we don't break even we don't sell.

[Bicknellski]

It be a good platform to test things on and get your hubs ready etc for a larger buy I can see that as well Sitarow.

If we could only magically make the chips we bought cost less and the time we put in be reduced by half.

[elasticband]

what hubs are they running on? where can they be purchased?

[monsters4r]

we are not under any financial difficulty so we have no need to lower the price

And we don't need to buy it  

Have a good mining  

[Bicknellski]

what hubs are they running on? where can they be purchased?

No Kev said he is not selling those hubs. We hope to have our own hub out in October but really we want to focus on these units and clear these sales and move on to the next phase.

[Bicknellski]

we are not under any financial difficulty so we have no need to lower the price

And we don't need to buy it  

Have a good mining  

Agreed. You have a good morning (mining?) as well.

[dave111223]

what hubs are they running on? where can they be purchased?

If you are looking for hubs I have a couple of 20 port Sipolar hubs for sale (tested and working with 20 BEs)

[elasticband]

what hubs are they running on? where can they be purchased?

No Kev said he is not selling those hubs. We hope to have our own hub out in October but really we want to focus on these units and clear these sales and move on to the next phase.

Okay, let me rephrase. If someone wanted to buy say 100 or these USB's, what kind of USB hub requirments are going to be needed?

[GodHatesFigs]

Unwatch / disable notifications

[Bicknellski]

what hubs are they running on? where can they be purchased?

No Kev said he is not selling those hubs. We hope to have our own hub out in October but really we want to focus on these units and clear these sales and move on to the next phase.

Okay, let me rephrase. If someone wanted to buy say 100 or these USB's, what kind of USB hub requirments are going to be needed?

They were bought in China I don't know even if they are branded... so Kev would have to give you the skinny on them if he wants. Send him a PM maybe?

[viriat0]

...
2 Blades = 7/8/9 BTC = 20 GH/S

Blades are over priced, the BTC cost (~8 BTC for 2 of them) is either above what you will return or just on par with it.
i.e. you give away BTC then MAYBE get it back many months later ... i.e. over priced

Compared only Price / hashrate.

[wndrbr3d]

The thing that always gets me about people complaining about the price of ASIC's is this: How much would you sell your machine that prints money for? That's essentially the question. You sell it for more money then it prints.Thats the answer (essentially, minus consideration for electricity costs and other stuff).

This is why I feel ASICMiner did it right in that they just held onto the hardware themselves and once they printed off a boatload of money for profit, they sold the hardware once it's ROI dropped.

I wouldn't expect a single ASIC company to sell a ASIC miner at a price that isn't equal (or worse) than ROI, because what investor would put their money behind that? "We COULD make more money, but we're going to sell the hardware and make less instead?"

[Meizirkki]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

[bitcoiner49er]

The thing that always gets me about people complaining about the price of ASIC's is this: How much would you sell your machine that prints money for? That's essentially the question. You sell it for more money then it prints.Thats the answer (essentially, minus consideration for electricity costs and other stuff).

This is why I feel ASICMiner did it right in that they just held onto the hardware themselves and once they printed off a boatload of money for profit, they sold the hardware once it's ROI dropped.

I wouldn't expect a single ASIC company to sell a ASIC miner at a price that isn't equal (or worse) than ROI, because what investor would put their money behind that? "We COULD make more money, but we're going to sell the hardware and make less instead?"

Well then, no point in visiting this sub-forum any more then.  

Although I agree to a point, seems like ASIC's are too tempting for most people to handle dependably.

[Bicknellski]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

Also remember we had the money set aside for a 11,000 K1 Nano USB miner run and pulled the plug on it so we were keen as COOP to have something hashing. You know what I am pretty proud of the guys that pulled this off actually Kev, Turt, Ti, Andre, and some other helpers worldwide to get it hashing at 2.5+. We went from thought to shipping units in what 6 weeks? Pretty impressive work from the COOP there.

[integrity42]

We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product.... Psst this is a development run sorta right?

You can fix that miscalculation... Sell all your inventory right now at 1BTC. You'll have cash-in-hand again to manufacture the next run. 

Time value of money is important as well. If you mine with all the hardware it will take months to generate income.  You can sell it all now at 1BTC and have capital again to fund the next run.

Also, if I were you guys, I'd give BitFury a earful on pricing... tell them they need to make it a no-brainer for contract manufacturers if they want to sell chips, or you won't buy in the future.  They have a lot to lose as well. 28nm have high NRE costs.  Use leverage on your next batch to get better pricing. Tell them that the forums are blowing up with pissed off buyers who can't ROI.  etc...

PS.
If you want some free consulting services PM me.

[Bicknellski]

I don't think you can FIX a miscalculation after the fact...but if you have that time machine as part of your free consulting services please throw that in as well.

Yes that was sarcasm I am sorry.

Prices posted.
Payment method posted.

Feel free to buy or not.

Peace.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292433.msg3129979#msg3129979 (CHECK FOR UPDATES HERE THE POT SWEETENS A BIT)

For my units, Minimum order is 5 pieces,
Price is 2.1 BTC each incl Free International Express Shipping, I will also throw in a cpl of these USB memory sticks with each order (some are 4 and some are 8GB).

[integrity42]

I don't think you can FIX a miscalculation after the fact...but if you have that time machine as part of your free consulting services please throw that in as well.


Yes that was sarcasm I am sorry.

Haha.

Well, I'm not trying to be a jerk -- sorry if I came off that way.  It's been frustrating to see fiasco after fiasco in the ASIC mining game, so I sort of don't have much patience anymore...

I just think you should seriously consider dropping the price. Even if you don't make anything, you can have 1000 happy customers who will become brand loyal.  You guys are certainly not stupid. You executed in 6 weeks. Very impressive.  Just fix up the sales side and you will have a successful mining business.  Sell this batch at a loss if you have to, the customer loyalty will make up for it.

[Meizirkki]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

There's no way USB miners can compete with large rigs, and in that sense (IMHO) it's totally ok for a USB miner to be (little) more expensive than it's projected ROI. USB miners are kind of "novelty things" that are nice to have even if they are never to break even. That's part of the reason erupters sell so well.

2.1BTC is, however, a very large price tag for any kind of USB stick. Too much for a hobby miner and probably too much for most collectors. Both whom you already scared away with the 5pcs minimum order. If you just waited another month, had more reasonable pricing and sold individually, these hobbyists and collectors would likely be buying. I'd even buy one too, Bitfury is after all the first full custom ASIC, and the most efficient design to exist to this date.

That's why I feel sorry for you. You have a great idea and the skills to do it, but.. I really can't afford to support you.

[Bicknellski]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

There's no way USB miners can compete with large rigs, and in that sense (IMHO) it's totally ok for a USB miner to be (little) more expensive than it's projected ROI. USB miners are kind of "novelty things" that are nice to have even if they are never to break even. That's part of the reason erupters sell so well.

2.1BTC is, however, a very large price tag for any kind of USB stick. Too much for a hobby miner and probably too much for most collectors. Both whom you already scared away with the 5pcs minimum order. If you just waited another month, had more reasonable pricing and sold individually, these hobbyists and collectors would likely be buying. I'd even buy one too, Bitfury is after all the first full custom ASIC, and the most efficient design to exist to this date.

That's why I feel sorry for you. You have a great idea and the skills to do it, but but.. I really can't afford to support you.

Fair enough...sorry for being defensive. I appreciate the candor and the advice. Thank-you.

[Threader]

Great idea and maybe if you had them in hand 3 months ago then 2.1BTC would pass the smell test.

Yes please keep them all and mine your hearts content.

[Meizirkki]

Fair enough...sorry for being defensive. I appreciate the candor and the advice. Thank-you.

No, no need to apologize or thank me. All I did was lay my hindsight on you.

[spoid]

sad, really was looking forward to buying some, but this is about twice as much as I would be willing to pay. Looks like I'll have to wait another week or two.

[Operatr]

The problem with ROI currently is a matter of BTC market price not rising fast enough to offset the hashpower rise. It has nothing at all to do with what it costs right this minute to build ASIC mining hardware. The price is what it is to make these, what is everyone complaining about? Instead of bitching about things that are beyond the teams control maybe adjust your expectations a bit. You guys do realize there are real world costs in production right? The fab doesn't care if their price hurts your mining or not.

 I see a few that were hoping for some really cheap USB miner capable of a fast break-even, which is unrealistic to begin with, and calling BPMC a bunch of scammers for not delivering this which is not fair. If you pay any attention at all to the mining world you know profitable mining is barely possible without investing $1000s up front into full Bitfury racks or something of similar density for the best bang for the buck.

It would take 8 ASICMiner Erupter USBs to equal one of these, or about BTC1.65 to get around 2.5 Gh/s out of them. But then you also need 8 USB slots so your hub cost is much higher if your running a lot of them. I don't think the price is that outlandish at BTC2.1 for the vastly increased density per USB slot, and this is only because the price per chip is high.

Hopefully future chip prices will be lower, but otherwise I say well done on these.

[joeventura]

Good we paid $130 per chip... and? You want to say what? We are lying? I think there are about 11 people in the COOP can verify what we paid per chip.

I feel truly sorry for you for making such a stupid move. Those immediately available samples are for development purposes.

I don't think putting up 130$ a chip is stupid when we bought the chip and the timeline we projected to have something mining. We like most people in this game probably miscalculated that aspect but oh well there is always cheaper chips and another opportunity with the same working product... not too stupid I think. Psst this is a development run sorta right?

Also remember we had the money set aside for a 11,000 K1 Nano USB miner run and pulled the plug on it so we were keen as COOP to have something hashing. You know what I am pretty proud of the guys that pulled this off actually Kev, Turt, Ti, Andre, and some other helpers worldwide to get it hashing at 2.5+. We went from thought to shipping units in what 6 weeks? Pretty impressive work from the COOP there.

I don't think ANYTHING you did was stupid.

I also agree with your position that if someone wants them great, otherwise we mine with them.

Once the chip price comes down, you are positioned to instantly leverage that - I say well done.

[jdebunt]

5 for 2.1 btc total would be a more fair price tbh

[beardays]

Great looking devices and nice video. Love the fans/hubs! You could make more from selling them than mining by yourself im sure. people will be prepared to buy them for a slight loss - but not a massive loss like it would be at current pricing.

[Stinky_Pete]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

[nikycoin]

i was prepare to pay up to 1.2 btc with shipping included for one of these , but 2.1 btc and a minimum of 5 no thank you . Maybe next time ! 

[joeventura]

yes I guess the only thing I would have done differently is not hype it.

If you knew the price was to be over $100 a GH just say that you offering to sell prototypes at close to cost and for me,
the best way to get rid of these is a deal where I buy them at this price and in October I get a special price on an equal amount at a much better price.


For example, I'd buy 5 @ BTC2.1 each today and you commit to producing more in October and sell me 5 more at BTC0.25 each.

[borgfish]

Well,

you could lower the prices of the in hand devices if you made sure ppl pay orders of not yet produced ones, and mixed the calculation with the not yet existing ones.
Like 10 PPL putting BTC into excrow, you could be sure its there, and order 30k bitfury chips.

I dont know what additional costs you have, but i think the chips take 2 weeks, maybe production also if the assembly company is not busy ?

I think there could be a real run if you say its .65 btc delivery in 4 weeks. oh nvm the shitstorm if something fails there

[reactor]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

[miter_myles]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

yes I guess the only thing I would have done differently is not hype it.

If you knew the price was to be over $100 a GH just say that you offering to sell prototypes at close to cost and for me,
the best way to get rid of these is a deal where I buy them at this price and in October I get a special price on an equal amount at a much better price.


For example, I'd buy 5 @ BTC2.1 each today and you commit to producing more in October and sell me 5 more at BTC0.25 each.

+2

[joeventura]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

That's not the offer here.

My guess is that at BTC2.1 each they are just breaking even on their costs.

It's sort of like the pharmaceutical industry, when you develop a new medication, the first pill costs 1 billion dollars and the second one is 8 cents.

Same here. They had to buy chips at a very expensive price, they did a short run of boards, which means they were probably 10 bucks each and then they had to be assembled.  Circuit design, components, etc it all adds up.

Clearly you can't charge BTC90 for the first one and BTC0.75 for the next one, the cost has to be spread across all of them.

These folks are not flush in cash to where they can have long term vision and plan to build thousands of them and spread the cost across future sales, they have to spread it across what they have in hand. There are no lost leaders, you have to at least break even.


There is no long term vision in Bitcoins, and that is because Bitcoins change daily.

[GenTarkin]

wow 2.1btc?! for 2.5GH?....um....
Can get 11GH for 4btc....

[joeventura]

wow 2.1btc?! for 2.5GH?....um....
Can get 11GH for 4btc....

DUH really?

[ASIC-K]

sigh....i had high hopes for this one. unwatch.

[jeroenn13]

sigh....i had high hopes for this one. unwatch.

Unwatch and IMO delete topic for disk space.

[Fiyasko]

My gosh
After watching the video, I was seriously, literally, right in the middle of calling my buddy on skype and saying "Hey dude look at this!, we could buy these!" and as it was loading i decided to flip over to the ending page where i saw a few displeased comments, I went to find out why, and the reason is that 5pc minimum, And a 2.1btc price tag.

You cant make a better deal? Nobody will buy these at that rate and the reasons are simple, If anyone had $1400, They wouldnt be buying a USB Stick miner, let alone FIVE of them, anyone would simply order a Much better deal from a differant competitor.

We cant buy ONE, wich is what Majority of USB Stick hashing unit buyers can afford, and the price for one of them is too high in itself.

Im not even intrested anymore.

[joeventura]

Read the stuff in between.

These are first run prototypes.

[console_cowboy]

Well I'm glad the miners look great, shame about the pricing. I can completely understand not being able to purchase a large reel at those higher prices, just to save $30. I also get where you guys are coming from about competition. I'm very hopeful your next batch will be significantly cheaper so I can still get a few to play with. I really enjoy seeing a variety of hardware. Hopefully you can mine with them and make back some BTC to get the next run going! I'm also looking forward to your USB hub plans. That could be quite cool to own even without mining.

yes I guess the only thing I would have done differently is not hype it.

If you knew the price was to be over $100 a GH just say that you offering to sell prototypes at close to cost and for me,
the best way to get rid of these is a deal where I buy them at this price and in October I get a special price on an equal amount at a much better price.


For example, I'd buy 5 @ BTC2.1 each today and you commit to producing more in October and sell me 5 more at BTC0.25 each.

This guy speaks some serious truth. The hyping is what really brought the anger out in people. If you had let it be known they were prototypes with prototype pricing, nobody would have had the expectations they did. I know I was really excited about it, until I saw the price. I am still excited that they will be cheaper in the future. I've ordered a good bit from Barntech, so I don't mind waiting for your miners.

The part about presetting a price for future usb miners is a great idea. If you could offer something like this, I would be much more interested in jumping on your buy. It really depends on if you could make some sort of deal that was really appealing. While I understand your first run pricing, I think there are a few things you can do to make these miners much more palatable.

[coldbreeze16]

lol! The Block Erupter runs .33 Gh/s and now costs .15BTC (considering the max in a GB- AND most importantly people are lining up for those suckers). 8*0.33=2.64GH/s @ 8*0.15=1.2BTC  
And you price these 2.1BTC! And that too at a minimum order of 5. At 10.5BTC I could buy 2 Blades for 8-8.5BTC and 15 Block Erupters. That'll give me more than 25GH/s, plus ASICminer has got local resellers=cheap shipping.

[n01d3x]

Only in the asic world do businesses plan on making their investment back so quickly. In the real world if your business is making money in 2 or 3 years you're doing good. This seems to be accepted in this industry, this has always fascinated me.

[crazyearner]

wow 2.1btc?! for 2.5GH?....um....
Can get 11GH for 4btc....

DUH really?

ya rly Blades 10 to 12 GH for 4BTC

[bobsag3]

I say well done to Big Picture Mining Cooperative for producing this product in the timescale they did. I am quite comfortable with the idea of letting BPMC mine rather than sell. Now they have shown it is possible, I look forward to seeing a second run at (hopefully) a lower price. I don't expect an extreme ROI but a price closer to break even (for us) would be easier to contemplate.

Alas, this thread also shows how easily disappointment can turn to anger.

The reason is that everyone is waiting for a reasonably priced piece of hardware that is ready to ship.  Pricing out of the ballpark for anyone who is reasonable leads to anger because everyone wants to get into the game but doesn't want to get ripped off in the process.  What people said a little ways up is true, you could easily unload every last piece at a price reasonable to market price of BTC as well as ROI expectations.  Selling these at an absurd premium means you'll have less chance of selling them later and can only rely on what mining profit they will provide.

People are angry because at every turn there are opportunities for people to sell hardware for a fair price, however everyone in the BTC hardware sales side of things seems to value their own greed over anything else.  And there is a sucker born every minute, so people will buy with no chance of making their money back.  May as well ask people to send me $100 and I'll send you back $80 once the funds clear, that's about the offer here, except you get hardware alongside it.

That's not the offer here.

My guess is that at BTC2.1 each they are just breaking even on their costs.

It's sort of like the pharmaceutical industry, when you develop a new medication, the first pill costs 1 billion dollars and the second one is 8 cents.

Same here. They had to buy chips at a very expensive price, they did a short run of boards, which means they were probably 10 bucks each and then they had to be assembled.  Circuit design, components, etc it all adds up.

Clearly you can't charge BTC90 for the first one and BTC0.75 for the next one, the cost has to be spread across all of them.

These folks are not flush in cash to where they can have long term vision and plan to build thousands of them and spread the cost across future sales, they have to spread it across what they have in hand. There are no lost leaders, you have to at least break even.


There is no long term vision in Bitcoins, and that is because Bitcoins change daily.

Well in a bushiness you have to spend money to make money. If selling the first (small) batch at a loss enabled them to sell more later for a profit, then that would be taking the long term view.

[bigbeninlondon]

Only in the asic world do businesses plan on making their investment back so quickly. In the real world if your business is making money in 2 or 3 years you're doing good. This seems to be accepted in this industry, this has always fascinated me.

The problem with asics is in a few months they'll be worthless.  So you have to make back your money now or it's never.

[Syke]

You can fix that miscalculation... Sell all your inventory right now at 1BTC. You'll have cash-in-hand again to manufacture the next run. 

Time value of money is important as well. If you mine with all the hardware it will take months to generate income.  You can sell it all now at 1BTC and have capital again to fund the next run.

I think this is the best idea. The cost of the chips is a sunk cost. Maximize your revenue asap. If you mine with them for a few months, you might generate .5 BTC. Sell them immediately for 1 BTC and you'll generate far more revenue. Then buy the new chips at the new lower price and you'll have a profitable product.

[n01d3x]

Only in the asic world do businesses plan on making their investment back so quickly. In the real world if your business is making money in 2 or 3 years you're doing good. This seems to be accepted in this industry, this has always fascinated me.

The problem with asics is in a few months they'll be worthless.  So you have to make back your money now or it's never.

Maybe on that one design, but then you get better cheaper chips and move on. Yes the companies need to make profit, but so do customers. They are selling a product that is meant to make a profit. If that never happens they won't have customers for long.

[easynote]

2.1 btc? you are crazy

[BigJon901]

Someone has to buy some...I mean, people are buying ASICS that will never profit. It's funny to see people buy tons of asicminer USBs thinking that just because they have more than 1 it changes the ROI  .

[nachius]

I just sat and ready EVERY page and EVERY comment on this thread.  It appears a WHOLE lot of individuals did not.

BPMC stated their price, their requirements, and were up front with everything asked of them.

Will this product ROI at 2.1 BTC?  Probably not, Will a BE ROI at .15 BTC?  Probably not.  ROI is a concern to most miners, but not the argument here in my mind, but execution and as of the post stating they are ready to ship they have executed.

They have taken an idea to market in a very short time.  To do so has it's costs and they have READY TO SHIP PROOF that their COOP can execute.  Many may not like the price, but at the end of the day they did something MANY other companies have not even been able to do is bring a product to market that is ready to ship when they say it is without preorders.  The product from a USB perspective is a far superior product to anything currently readily available on the market so comparing it to a BE which is what is being done is only partially fair.

I own a handful of BEs.  I paid around $150 each for my first 3, I paid $50 for my 4th, and my next 7 will be here tomorrow for around $130 combined.  Will those ever ROI I doubt it and understand that fact.  Everyone buying BEs today should realize that even with free power, shipping, and a cost of .1 BTC or under there is a slim chance if any to break even if you had the device in hand tomorrow.  I am excited to see more products come to market and continue to support Bitcoin and the community as a whole.  I can't afford to purchase these now, but I don't understand everyone hating on an organization so much?  If you don't want to buy at this price don't it's really simple to understand.  They already said they will mine with them if they don't sell, great that helps us all keeping a distributed secure network that will continue to grow.

If you want to throw some math into the observation VERY QUICK NUMBERS:
1 BF1 - 2.1 BTC shipped each (minimum order does not matter as this could be group purchased etc.)  This uses 1 port in a USB hub at 2.5 GHash
8 BEs - around 1.27 BTC shipped at around .15 each, requirement of 8 ports at around .031 BTC cost per port (Dlink 7 port/6 useable at $26ish each) or an additional cost of .25 BTC total: 1.52 BTC

Is the electricity cost and port density on your hub worth the additional .5-.6 BTC?  That's for you to decide, but it has it's benefits and in the grand scheme of taking everything into consideration of setup and configuration 1 USB is easier to operate, setup, and maintain than 8.  Overall it is a better product at a higher price tag for the FIRST RUN of the product.  We can only assume the price will come down as the component cost comes down, but as we all know the Bitcoin game is a rat race with ever increasing difficulty recently that is difficult for the average person mining to stay ahead of.  I mine and participate because I fully support the idea and really enjoy Bitcoin and the people for the most part they are in general very helpful.  I do take into consideration ROI in hopes that I don't completely throw all my money away, but at the end of the day I enjoy it and will continue to participate as much as I can.  I know many are in the same boat, but there are different levels.

Those that are in it JUST to make money
Those that are in it to SUPPORT and secure the network
Those that are in it to SUPPORT it as a currency
Those that are in it to make a quick buck
Those that are just curious and want to see what it is about
Those that are combinations of all or some of the above

Recap, price announced, reasons given and defended with alternative to not selling.  I may not like the price, but I'm not going to bash a group that appears to be doing good things for the community and is actually able to deliver products to us that is superior to anything comparable on the market today.

/end rant

[miter_myles]

::word vomit::

/end rant

Which is all fine and dandy.. however, this product was sort of "hyped" to a very "blunt" community and with that don't be surprised when said community provides comments and feedback on it - positive AND negative..

[xstr8guy]

wow 2.1btc?! for 2.5GH?....um....
Can get 11GH for 4btc....

DUH really?

ya rly Blades 10 to 12 GH for 4BTC

And the Blades use about 10 times the electricity that the Bitfury chips use.

[nachius]

::word vomit::

/end rant

Which is all fine and dandy.. however, this product was sort of "hyped" to a very "blunt" community and with that don't be surprised when said community provides comments and feedback on it - positive AND negative..

I understand that and everyone is entitled to say what they want, this was a hyped product, am I disappointed about the price sure.  This community is a great one that speaks their minds that of a primarily very intelligent group of individuals.  For those that come and post their arguments with supporting thoughts and facts that is great and I fully support that.  There is a smaller subset of individuals that I notice that just come and bitch and complain,  This is the internet so their will always be trolls feedback is great for EVERYONE and every company, but the comments I don't think help anyone are the ones like YOU SUCK!

IF I made a comment stating I am disappointed your hyped product was released at what I feel is too high of a price for me to justify buying it because...........(insert justification for opinion here)

I'm not asking everyone to do that nor do I expect that,  I was just stating that some people just come and complain because they can is all with no foundation to their complaints or if they had foundation they didn't state it and it just looks like they are pissed off posting on an internet forum!  

[cdogster]

Recap, price announced, reasons given and defended with alternative to not selling.  I may not like the price, but I'm not going to bash a group that appears to be doing good things for the community and is actually able to deliver products to us that is superior to anything comparable on the market today.

Well said.  I completely agree.

Forums tend to bring out the worst in people.

[fumble]

Minimum order 5.
Shame that I would of liked one from the hobby miner angle.

Good luck with it all the same.

Unfortunately I don't think Kev wants to be boxing hundreds and hundreds of single units day after day... had to have an MOQ.

Yes putting a $290 item that you selling into a box is such a chore.  

Sure is if you are the only one doing it 1000x.

That is silly.  I could get 3-4 people here in the U.S. @ $8/hr each and they could probably box at least 50 per hour each.  8 hour day = 1600 orders for only $512
You can't tell me that the labor cost in Indonesia is more than here. I'm guessing you could get 10x the labor for the same price.

[atomicchaos]

I expected to be disappointed by the price, but it's larger than normal. On the other hand, my disappointment is not directed at them, obviously they need to make money from this, and as much as we would all like this well under 1 BTC, they aren't doing this for charity. They have every right to make an immediate ROI, as we all wish we could do.

Love the product, I think the people behind it are decent, but I have to bow out on the price. Good luck and happy mining!

[xstr8guy]

I expected to be disappointed by the price, but it's larger than normal. On the other hand, my disappointment is not directed at them, obviously they need to make money from this, and as much as we would all like this well under 1 BTC, they aren't doing this for charity. They have every right to make an immediate ROI, as we all wish we could do.

Love the product, I think the people behind it are decent, but I have to bow out on the price. Good luck and happy mining!

Now that's the spirit!  Congratulate on achievement, express disappointment at price, wish well and bow out and wait for better opportunities.  Why can't everyone be so thoughtful?

[miter_myles]

I expected to be disappointed by the price, but it's larger than normal. On the other hand, my disappointment is not directed at them, obviously they need to make money from this, and as much as we would all like this well under 1 BTC, they aren't doing this for charity. They have every right to make an immediate ROI, as we all wish we could do.

Love the product, I think the people behind it are decent, but I have to bow out on the price. Good luck and happy mining!

Now that's the spirit!  Congratulate on achievement, express disappointment at price, wish well and bow out and wait for better opportunities.  Why can't everyone be so thoughtful?

Uh... because this is the fucking Internet...

[erk]

I expected to be disappointed by the price, but it's larger than normal. On the other hand, my disappointment is not directed at them, obviously they need to make money from this, and as much as we would all like this well under 1 BTC, they aren't doing this for charity. They have every right to make an immediate ROI, as we all wish we could do.

Love the product, I think the people behind it are decent, but I have to bow out on the price. Good luck and happy mining!

Now that's the spirit!  Congratulate on achievement, express disappointment at price, wish well and bow out and wait for better opportunities.  Why can't everyone be so thoughtful?

I would gladly buy the things at the right price. We are talking about something for a financial investment, not a new TV, price is critical.

[Bicknellski]

I expected to be disappointed by the price, but it's larger than normal. On the other hand, my disappointment is not directed at them, obviously they need to make money from this, and as much as we would all like this well under 1 BTC, they aren't doing this for charity. They have every right to make an immediate ROI, as we all wish we could do.

Love the product, I think the people behind it are decent, but I have to bow out on the price. Good luck and happy mining!

Now that's the spirit!  Congratulate on achievement, express disappointment at price, wish well and bow out and wait for better opportunities.  Why can't everyone be so thoughtful?

Appreciated. We do what we can with what we got.

[michaelmclees]

The thing they need to understand, and quickly, is that the goal at this point is to merely lose the least money possible.  Whether they fail to sell at 2btc or 20btc makes little difference.  If they intend to sell them, they need to be sold at the highest possible price, even if that entails a loss.  If they intend to mine with them, then Godspeed.

[erschiessen]

I didn't realize the chips essentially priced BPMC out of the market.

That sucks.

I was stoked up to when your cost was announced.

Batch 2?

[Beastlymac]

Batch 2?

If enough people are interested.

[Dabs]

If they accepted pre-orders, would you pay now for a chance to get them first? Batch 1 is already priced. Batch 2 will be cheaper. How much are you willing to pay, and how long are you willing to wait?

We've already seen working units. Now all they need to do is buy a bunch of cheaper priced chips.

OTOH, they got their Avalon chips refunded ...

[erschiessen]

Batch 2?

If enough people are interested.

Cool.
If I get refunded by Yifu via the pus-case that was ragingazn's Avalon Group Buy, I would seriously consider using that paltry BTC4 toward these... (if the pricepoint decreases at the same ratio as chip prices).

Until my KnC gear starts to earn some coin, I will stay bitpoor.

If you accept paypal, however...
:-)

[colemab]

Batch 2?

If enough people are interested.

I think you could sell these at the current price and minimum order *if* you sold batch 2 to batch 1 customers at the break even point or slightly above (i.e. give a discount on batch 1 customers in batch 2 to make up for the lack of ROI on batch one) and the chips were much cheaper in batch 2.  This is very similar to how the AM block erupter deal went down.  I know it has already been mentioned in this thread but I just wanted to echo the thought.

[integrity42]

Batch 2?

If enough people are interested.

Interested at 0.5BTC each, if it is delivered by october 7th.

http://www.btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=50&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2500&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=128.11&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=2&action=calc

Interested at 0.4BTC, if it is delivered by october 19th.

http://www.btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=50&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2500&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=128.11&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc

Interested at 0.3BTC, if it is delivered by october 31st.


These pricing levels all allow customers to ROI, with enough profit to adjust for risk that you are late / dont deliver / diff goes higher then expected, etc.

[lyth0s]

Cool product, but very disappointing price. I won't be buying any of these at this price.

[hasher87]

Price?  Min. order quantity?

I noticed in the video you appear to be in a tropical environment, hopefully near Thailand for cheap shipping?

Shipping from Batam (Indonesia)
Price: Wait for tomorrow.
Min Order: None that I know of.

No chance any of you guys are going to the Singapore GP next week is there?

lol if he does im certainly im getting a few of it as im going there next week as well!

EDIT: just read the whole thread. DAT PRICE

no thanks i'll stick with my knc gb shares! 

[mmitech]

I just sat and ready EVERY page and EVERY comment on this thread.  It appears a WHOLE lot of individuals did not.

BPMC stated their price, their requirements, and were up front with everything asked of them.

Will this product ROI at 2.1 BTC?  Probably not, Will a BE ROI at .15 BTC?  Probably not.  ROI is a concern to most miners, but not the argument here in my mind, but execution and as of the post stating they are ready to ship they have executed.

They have taken an idea to market in a very short time.  To do so has it's costs and they have READY TO SHIP PROOF that their COOP can execute.  Many may not like the price, but at the end of the day they did something MANY other companies have not even been able to do is bring a product to market that is ready to ship when they say it is without preorders.  The product from a USB perspective is a far superior product to anything currently readily available on the market so comparing it to a BE which is what is being done is only partially fair.

I own a handful of BEs.  I paid around $150 each for my first 3, I paid $50 for my 4th, and my next 7 will be here tomorrow for around $130 combined.  Will those ever ROI I doubt it and understand that fact.  Everyone buying BEs today should realize that even with free power, shipping, and a cost of .1 BTC or under there is a slim chance if any to break even if you had the device in hand tomorrow.  I am excited to see more products come to market and continue to support Bitcoin and the community as a whole.  I can't afford to purchase these now, but I don't understand everyone hating on an organization so much?  If you don't want to buy at this price don't it's really simple to understand.  They already said they will mine with them if they don't sell, great that helps us all keeping a distributed secure network that will continue to grow.

If you want to throw some math into the observation VERY QUICK NUMBERS:
1 BF1 - 2.1 BTC shipped each (minimum order does not matter as this could be group purchased etc.)  This uses 1 port in a USB hub at 2.5 GHash
8 BEs - around 1.27 BTC shipped at around .15 each, requirement of 8 ports at around .031 BTC cost per port (Dlink 7 port/6 useable at $26ish each) or an additional cost of .25 BTC total: 1.52 BTC

Is the electricity cost and port density on your hub worth the additional .5-.6 BTC?  That's for you to decide, but it has it's benefits and in the grand scheme of taking everything into consideration of setup and configuration 1 USB is easier to operate, setup, and maintain than 8.  Overall it is a better product at a higher price tag for the FIRST RUN of the product.  We can only assume the price will come down as the component cost comes down, but as we all know the Bitcoin game is a rat race with ever increasing difficulty recently that is difficult for the average person mining to stay ahead of.  I mine and participate because I fully support the idea and really enjoy Bitcoin and the people for the most part they are in general very helpful.  I do take into consideration ROI in hopes that I don't completely throw all my money away, but at the end of the day I enjoy it and will continue to participate as much as I can.  I know many are in the same boat, but there are different levels.

Those that are in it JUST to make money
Those that are in it to SUPPORT and secure the network
Those that are in it to SUPPORT it as a currency
Those that are in it to make a quick buck
Those that are just curious and want to see what it is about
Those that are combinations of all or some of the above

Recap, price announced, reasons given and defended with alternative to not selling.  I may not like the price, but I'm not going to bash a group that appears to be doing good things for the community and is actually able to deliver products to us that is superior to anything comparable on the market today.

/end rant

you are funny, if you are a collector and take this as a hobby then do not speak for miners.... miners do this as a side job and they have to profit from their investment, and yes I am here to profit "shit I've just said it" otherwise I would just buy Bitcoins and wait for the value to rise........

[Paladin69]

at current diff 2.5 GH gets you roughly $55 a month

I wouldn't pay more than $100 +n shipping for these puppies.

Next Diff stop est. 103 mil will knock profits to $45 monthly

You say "monthly" but it's worse than that.  Difficulty is changing 3 times per month at the current rate (10 days each)

So $55 / 3 = $18 / 10 = $1.80 x 2 or 3 = $5.40 for only a couple more days...
Then $45 / 3 = $15 for the next 10 days... (diff 110?)
and so on...  Diff will be 130 maybe after the next?

$294 for 2.5GH is silly.  In 2012 this would've been awesome while GPU mining was still profitable...that would've been like 4 or 5 video cards.  But now it sounds retarded.  This guy is making a killing by ordering more in bulk for himself with the money you give him.  He's an old guy, and old guys are smart.  He's taking advantage of people here big time.

EDIT:  Yeah I didn't include shipping costs either.

[Unacceptable]

I just think they jumped the gun on a BF chip purchase,paying way too much per chip.........should have waited for the price drop.......oh well,live & learn  

Great device though,congrats!!!!!!!!!

[kano]

...

Those that are in it JUST to make money
Those that are in it to SUPPORT and secure the network
Those that are in it to SUPPORT it as a currency
Those that are in it to make a quick buck
Those that are just curious and want to see what it is about
Those that are combinations of all or some of the above

Recap, price announced, reasons given and defended with alternative to not selling.  I may not like the price, but I'm not going to bash a group that appears to be doing good things for the community and is actually able to deliver products to us that is superior to anything comparable on the market today.

/end rant

Rant indeed.

What is the point of the people selling them? To make a profit.

Yes your whole rant was just reduced to nothing more than a rant with that one line.

[Dabs]

October reels just landed on the site - $30/chip.  I'll work up a few options for 10 & 100 chip sample packs.  For now, I have sample chips available for shipping immediately, $127/chip.

This was posted TODAY at the US BitFury thread.

If you can wait till October (which is likely the end of October) you can expect to pay $30 per chip, minimum of 3000 chips.

If you want it now, then 2.1 BTC is the price. That's just how it is. You buy now, you get it over the weekend, it should be in your hands ready to hash by Monday or Tuesday.

Reference:
https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=33

[bitcoiner49er]

October reels just landed on the site - $30/chip.  I'll work up a few options for 10 & 100 chip sample packs.  For now, I have sample chips available for shipping immediately, $127/chip.

This was posted TODAY at the US BitFury thread.

If you can wait till October (which is likely the end of October) you can expect to pay $30 per chip, minimum of 3000 chips.

If you want it now, then 2.1 BTC is the price. That's just how it is. You buy now, you get it over the weekend, it should be in your hands ready to hash by Monday or Tuesday.

Reference:
https://megabigpower.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=33

$30/chip + end of October = Unpossible

-Ralph

[Bicknellski]

Delivery and difficulty are the main concerns for further BF1 runs and getting those estimated properly will be tricky. Risky venture it is with USB miners but there certainly is a thrill putting something out into the marketplace for the community to mine on. Hope the difficulty window doesn't kill off the USB miners just yet.

[semaster]

I'm ready to buy them with price no more than 0.75BTC

[massnerder]

i'll also be waiting to see if they will offer a price that will actually roi

[notlist3d]

Would be great if you shipped to one of your COOP members in us.  Re-shipped from there, makes shipping much better.

[bobsag3]

Would be great if you shipped to one of your COOP members in us.  Re-shipped from there, makes shipping much better.

I have been talking to them about that, to streamline things.

[integrity42]

Delivery and difficulty are the main concerns for further BF1 runs and getting those estimated properly will be tricky. Risky venture it is with USB miners but there certainly is a thrill putting something out into the marketplace for the community to mine on. Hope the difficulty window doesn't kill off the USB miners just yet.

With the chip being $30, the manufacturing costs being maybe $15 on the very high side, and then a standard 100% markup for retail leaves us at a price point of $90 USD.

Each $30 chip, assuming they are delivered and running on November 12, will return 0.32BTC in their lifetimes.
When you use just one chip (no marginal costs), You are paying $93/BTC
When you add manufacturing costs, You are paying $45 for 0.32BTC = $140/BTC
When you add consumer markup, You are paying $90 for 0.32BTC = $280/BTC

You can buy Bitcoins today for $120 on bitstamp.  Who in their right mind would pay $30/chip from bitfury, go through the headache of manufacturing boards, and slowly get BTC over the course of 6 months, when they can buy even more BTC on bitstamp right now for less money then it would take to manufacture boards?

I'm actually very impressed that bitfury priced this out so that the chips + manufacturing costs seem to be exactly todays exchange rate on MTGOX.  They must think that contract manufacturers are not good at math/business/economics and will continue to overpay for these chips.

Follow the link below to see that 1 chip, running by november 12, will only ever return 0.32BTC

http://www.btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=86933017.771194&dcosts=100&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=2500&diff_mincreasedecrease=1&btcusd=129.16&dpowcon=5&btcusd_mincrease=0&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=5&action=calc

[Bicknellski]

Would be great if you shipped to one of your COOP members in us.  Re-shipped from there, makes shipping much better.

We do have a few members in the US and will definitely look at resellers should there be enough interest. First we need to clear this batch off decks. One challenge at a time.

[joeventura]

I'm ready to buy them with price no more than 0.75BTC

That is my number exactly, but by October it will be less

[cad_cdn]

I'd like to get involved from Canada

Would be great if you shipped to one of your COOP members in us.  Re-shipped from there, makes shipping much better.

We do have a few members in the US and will definitely look at resellers should there be enough interest. First we need to clear this batch off decks. One challenge at a time.

[Bicknellski]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292433.msg3129979#msg3129979 <--- How to order from this current batch.

Future batches? We have yet to organize that yet.

[Beastlymac]

Anybody who is interested in purchasing with no MOQ have a look here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294010.0
Limited quantity left so if you want some get in early.

Edit: fixed the link.

[keeron]

Anybody who is interested in purchasing with no MOQ have a look here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294009.0
Limited quantity left so if you want some get in early.

Huh? Topic deleted already?

[stevendevlin]

Huh? Topic deleted already?

Try here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294010.0

[notlist3d]

Really wish you would release name of what hub is in pictures.

[Beastlymac]

Really wish you would release name of what hub is in pictures.

It has already been released in another thread. Here.

me want those usbs. oh and some boards too.

http://dipo-electron.en.alibaba.com/product/1036660629-0/19_port_20a_usb_5v_power_outlet_for_phone_tablet_pc.html

now the quest is how to get your hands on it.

I already bough 8 of them, you can mine 18 Biitfury BF1's in one hub no problem (you can only get 2 in the side ports as they clash).

Speak to Jason: sales-1@dipo-electron.com, plz mention my name in any contact and pm me before.

Jason
Mob:+86 15012810165
Tel:+86 0769 82160202-85
Fax:+86 0769 82160402-88
Skype:diposales01
MSN:diposales01@hotmail.com
Email:sales-1@dipo-electron.com
Web:www.dipo.net.cn
www.dipo-electron.com
Address:No.1,Third Reservoir Industry Road,Guanjingtou Village,FengGang Town,DongGuan,China

cheers,
kev

[monsieurmarc]

Anyone doing a uk buy?

[Beastlymac]

Anyone doing a uk buy?

Available to immediately ship to the uk here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294010.0

[Bicknellski]

I think out of the whole bunch that were fabbed 2 units failed to hash. Pretty good news I think for those ordering BitFury chips.

[kano]

So the 'possible' but not likely, break even BTC price for 2.2GH/s mining is now ~0.65BTC if you get it today - i.e. unlikely to do much better than ~0 BTC profit if you pay 0.65BTC for 2.2GH/s

That's assuming 20% per diff change, which the average over the last 10 diff changes has been higher than 20% (the last 4 have been almost 30% or more)

i.e. at 20% diff each change, 100 days mining, 2.2GH/s = ~ 0.54294555 BTC
at 20% diff each change, 200 days mining, 2.2GH/s = ~ 0.65738121 BTC

N.B. those BTC return numbers are VERY likely to be an over estimate.

Was the price posted?

[Bicknellski]

So the 'possible' but not likely, break even BTC price for 2.2GH/s mining is now ~0.65BTC if you get it today - i.e. unlikely to do much better than ~0 BTC profit if you pay 0.65BTC for 2.2GH/s

That's assuming 20% per diff change, which the average over the last 10 diff changes has been higher than 20% (the last 4 have been almost 30% or more)

i.e. at 20% diff each change, 100 days mining, 2.2GH/s = ~ 0.54294555 BTC
at 20% diff each change, 200 days mining, 2.2GH/s = ~ 0.65738121 BTC

N.B. those BTC return numbers are VERY likely to be an over estimate.

Was the price posted?

2.3 - 2.7 Gh/s is the range I think Kevin was getting when burning in.

[scooter]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

[Bicknellski]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

[Fiyasko]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

[coldbreeze16]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

+1  ^this. Methinks they'll hardly ever ROI so they were actually just made for being resold, not mining   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory‎

[xstr8guy]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

+1  ^this. Methinks they'll hardly ever ROI so they were actually just made for being resold, not mining   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory‎

Thank you for existing Ebay!

I'll never understand why so many people frown upon reselling.  It's a free market.  No one's forced to buy.

[Fiyasko]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

+1  ^this. Methinks they'll hardly ever ROI so they were actually just made for being resold, not mining   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory‎

Thank you for existing Ebay!

I'll never understand why so many people frown upon reselling.  It's a free market.  No one's forced to buy.

Because majority of consumers want to consume a product, not make money

[rob143]

A guy on Ebay prints a case for the Block Erupters, figured out how to cram a usb hub in there and slapped a fan on top, sells the unit for $399 on Ebay. These are faster, less micky mouse so at $399 would still be a better value.

[terrapinflyer]

A guy on Ebay prints a case for the Block Erupters, figured out how to cram a usb hub in there and slapped a fan on top, sells the unit for $399 on Ebay. These are faster, less micky mouse so at $399 would still be a better value.

Link?

[rob143]

A guy on Ebay prints a case for the Block Erupters, figured out how to cram a usb hub in there and slapped a fan on top, sells the unit for $399 on Ebay. These are faster, less micky mouse so at $399 would still be a better value.

Link?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASIC-Bitcoin-Quick-Miner-USB-2-Gh-s-Plug-and-Play-with-Fan-Blue-Quick-Miner-/281165695726

[terrapinflyer]

That is a cool product. I wonder how many he has sold at that price...

[Bicknellski]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

My way of saying we came to a knowledgeable part of the community, offered our wares at our price and have accepted our fate up or down on sales as opposed to "fleecing" people who might not have the same level of understanding or access to this forum. Reselling is fine, ebay is fine, just not how we have gone about it and no my statement merely points to the fact the we are trying whenever possible to be ethical in business practices. We are also trying to open up a positive dialogue with the community for future products. We want to do more to provide products that are available and meet the needs of this community.

[Bicknellski]

Got my Units today...

Shipping on 9, 1 going to ckolivas, keeping 1 to play with.

[kano]

If I had the money I would buy some and quickly sell them for double on ebay.
It seemed to work well for people when the BE's came out.

Notice we are not selling them on Ebay?

Is that your way of saying "buy a bunch in a batch so you can resell and flip them for profit instead of mine on them like they are desinged for"

My way of saying we came to a knowledgeable part of the community, offered our wares at our price and have accepted our fate up or down on sales as opposed to "fleecing" people who might not have the same level of understanding or access to this forum. Reselling is fine, ebay is fine, just not how we have gone about it and no my statement merely points to the fact the we are trying whenever possible to be ethical in business practices. We are also trying to open up a positive dialogue with the community for future products. We want to do more to provide products that are available and meet the needs of this community.

It's your way of saying ... you made a mistake and want to pass that mistake off completely to the buyers and turn it into a profit for you.
(with a hidden - 'suckers')

Until ASIC, the needs of the community was hardware that mined more BTC than it cost.
People other than very late BTC miners, did this with GPUs and FPGAs.

Since ASIC, the standard for some ASIC chip and board manufacturers has been to sell hardware at a BTC price above what it will return and then pretend to be an idiot and not know that you are ripping people off ... or worse ... make up copious amounts of bullshit arguing that you aren't ripping people off but instead doing right by them.
The most common of these of late is: "Why sell hardware when you could make more mining with it - better to make EVEN more by selling it - and thus making the buyers lose BTC"

Of course this can be described as a ponzi if you realise that the only positive exit strategy is passing the loss on to the next buyer ... even if sometimes there is only one step - the first sale of the devices

[Bicknellski]

Back on ignore Kano don't really have the time to play or care about your slant on things. Might want to go look for more free hardware somewhere else like the Monarch or something equally fantasmagorical.

Spin it how you like. Moving forward batch two and some newer BTC mining projects and BTC mining accessory like hubs.

Kevin and Beastlymac I am guessing most are sold now ya boys?

Really looking forward to the end of November with those really efficient chips coming down the pipe.

[Dabs]

@kano, you can buy the ones available now at 2.1 BTC, or you can wait next month and the next batch, those will be cheaper.

[bigbeninlondon]

If next batch's will be cheaper, and this batch isn't selling, would it not be prudent to reduce these a little to see if you can sell them before the next batch?  October delivery chips have USB sticks promising BTC.4.  I'd pay BTC1 BTC.8 now to have one of these early.  Just saying.

Edit: did the calculations.  Even at BTC1 it's a gamble that difficulty won't continue to skyrocket for the next year.

[Beastlymac]

-snip-

Kevin and Beastlymac I am guessing most are sold now ya boys?

Only about 20 left also most of those are reserved for payment in the coming days.

[Beastlymac]

If next batch's will be cheaper, and this batch isn't selling, would it not be prudent to reduce these a little to see if you can sell them before the next batch?  October delivery chips have USB sticks promising BTC.4.  I'd pay BTC1 BTC.8 now to have one of these early.  Just saying.

Edit: did the calculations.  Even at BTC1 it's a gamble that difficulty won't continue to skyrocket for the next year.

Next batch WILL be cheaper. But the current batch is almost sold out so we won't be dropping prices.

[miffman]

im confused. with block erupters being around 0.13 BTC with 336 mhash, and the BF1 being 2.1 BTC with 2.5ghash, you would need 8 block erupters to have the equivalent power. it's still like a 1BTC cheaper. Yeah you need hubs and it's a nuisance etc etc, but still cheaper. why not go for block erupters?? 

[bigbeninlondon]

im confused. with block erupters being around 0.13 BTC with 336 mhash, and the BF1 being 2.1 BTC with 2.5ghash, you would need 8 block erupters to have the equivalent power. it's still like a 1BTC cheaper. Yeah you need hubs and it's a nuisance etc etc, but still cheaper. why not go for block erupters?? 

Agreed, although 8 erupters use 8x the power of 1 BF1, which makes a small difference. 

Unlike some, I'm not personally offended that these are overpriced, but I think at this price they'll have a hard time moving.  If they come down I'll re-evaluate, but right now I'm looking for a price point of ~ BTC.4 for October delivery chips, realistically in my hands in November.

[Bicknellski]

im confused. with block erupters being around 0.13 BTC with 336 mhash, and the BF1 being 2.1 BTC with 2.5ghash, you would need 8 block erupters to have the equivalent power. it's still like a 1BTC cheaper. Yeah you need hubs and it's a nuisance etc etc, but still cheaper. why not go for block erupters?? 

Agreed, although 8 erupters use 8x the power of 1 BF1, which makes a small difference. 

Unlike some, I'm not personally offended that these are overpriced, but I think at this price they'll have a hard time moving.  If they come down I'll re-evaluate, but right now I'm looking for a price point of ~ BTC.4 for October delivery chips, realistically in my hands in November.

At that price point there might be no point to a batch 2... depends on the chips costs and BTC price as well as difficulty. One can wish for an ROI price but the reality for someone doing the fabrication has to be is it worth it and given the first batch is a novelty and limited quantity a second batch needs to be on time and price point perfect to move sufficient quantity. Still up in the air... there is definitely a window but it is closing fast on this chip.

[integrity42]

More like its already closed. KnC starting to ship soon.  BitFury will have to sell chips for $2-5 soon for it to make sense to manufacture any more of these things.

[kano]

Indeed - if KnC or HashFast deliver ... not a chance of return from these over priced items.
... though that is already true of the first batch without KnC or HashFast delivering.

[xstr8guy]

The hobbyist miners will still buy these in mass quantities because the low price of entry compared to big rigs... ROI or not.  Why do people continue to ignore the fact that 100+% ROI is not the ultimate goal for thousands of hobbyist miners?!  And continuing to demand that ASIC makers lower their price is completely ridiculous when they are selling everything they can make the second its off of the production line.

[kevinm]

The price has been reduced for a cpl of days now, I should have updated the thread before now to avoid any confusion.

cheers,
kev

[Turbor]

Why do people continue to ignore the fact that 100+% ROI is not the ultimate goal for thousands of hobbyist miners?!

You speak about those guys complaining every day about bad luck and which pool can give them the biggest reward ?

[xstr8guy]

Why do people continue to ignore the fact that 100+% ROI is not the ultimate goal for thousands of hobbyist miners?!

You speak about those guys complaining every day about bad luck and which pool can give them the biggest reward ?

I'm not sure what you're driving at?  Are you implying that hobbyist miners are complainers?  I think you may be confusing "newbies" with "hobbyists".  A newbie with a single USB stick and an Nvidia card complaining that Slush is ripping him off because he didn't make as many bitcoins this week as he did last week is not the same as a hobbyist.

A hobbyist takes great interest in the hobby and does research and tries to participate in a useful way.  They may not be as sophisticated and knowledgable as those who do this for a living but they are what makes this community diverse and vibrant.

And annoying newbies aren't always hopeless either.  Everyone was one at one time. 

[Turbor]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

[Bicknellski]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

Ya that is true too bad he doesn't do that same service to warn people off BFL seems pretty suspect... what's that you say he got a free unit from them? Really?

No one is hiding the facts here especially those who have fabricated the units and brought them to the community. You may want to buy or not that is fair, you can post your concerns about ROI fair enough just make sure you are doing it consistently across the board not just dropping little turds on people's threads because they don't like they way you do business. I have 0 respect for Kano's new found community protective spirit given the rank amateur status for backing and promoting BFL given their record. If he were really a champion for the community he would be leading the charge to help people AVOID really financial ruin by investing in BFL. Hypocrisy is not a luxury he should be indulging in.

[Meizirkki]

Why do people continue to ignore the fact that 100+% ROI is not the ultimate goal for thousands of hobbyist miners?!

You speak about those guys complaining every day about bad luck and which pool can give them the biggest reward ?

I think he's talking about those people who are willing to buy a sub 100€ item just to help the network. Sounds hypocrite but those people exist.

[kano]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

Ya that is true too bad he doesn't do that same service to warn people off BFL seems pretty suspect...

Posting lies to cover something up? What's he hiding? ...

It is a worry when someone who is selling hardware is knowingly doing this.
I have replied specifically to you posting this, twice before:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg2956636#msg2956636

And:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292118.msg3157285#msg3157285

As I said before about Bicknellski: misdirection.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292118.msg3165417#msg3165417

He's under the delusion that I have some need to hide my thoughts about BFL, yet both the above, that he has read, seem pretty clear to me, and I am sure clear to anyone else who reads them.
Also:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2977089#msg2977089
The reason I mostly avoid that thread is coz I've made it clear about BFL in there but that thread is full of rubbish.
It is easy enough to find negative things about BFL, but in there they seem to just say anything to try and get attention whether is is true or ludicrous.
I'm sure most people would prefer to avoid that tread.

I will also point out that Bicknellski is the same person who (failed) but tried to convince the Klondike teams to not support the cgminer developers (myself and/or ckolivas)
He didn't want them to supply us with hardware to help develop the cgminer software. Interesting, him trying to do that For what reason?
Funniest thing about this is that I am still spending time with the biggest Klondike team working on cgminer and helping them get the Klondike hardware going in a basecamp project with 11 other people.
If they send me a Klondike board (which they might) it really wont be making me a fortune for my effort so far and the future effort I will expend on supporting it - but that's OK by me - I am still working with them.

Yes indeed Bicknellski is a lowlife and looking at how this thread has succeeded in passing their loss off to their customers and turning it into their own profit, I'm sure others could think of other words to describe him.

Meanwhile These BitFury chips are still slower than BFL chips but also use less power than the BFL chips ...
Cmon HashFast, KnC, can't someone hurry up and release a single chip that's faster than the BFL ASIC

[Xian01]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

Ya that is true too bad he doesn't do that same service to warn people off BFL seems pretty suspect...

Posting lies to cover something up? What's he hiding? ...

It is a worry when someone who is selling hardware is knowingly doing this.
I have replied specifically to you posting this, twice before:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg2956636#msg2956636

And:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292118.msg3157285#msg3157285

As I said before about Bicknellski: misdirection.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292118.msg3165417#msg3165417

He's under the delusion that I have some need to hide my thoughts about BFL, yet both the above, that he has read, seem pretty clear to me, and I am sure clear to anyone else who reads them.
Also:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2977089#msg2977089
The reason I mostly avoid that thread is coz I've made it clear about BFL in there but that thread is full of rubbish.
It is easy enough to find negative things about BFL, but in there they seem to just say anything to try and get attention whether is is true or ludicrous.
I'm sure most people would prefer to avoid that tread.

I will also point out that Bicknellski is the same person who (failed) but tried to convince the Klondike teams to not support the cgminer developers (myself and/or ckolivas)
He didn't want them to supply us with hardware to help develop the cgminer software. Interesting, him trying to do that For what reason?
Funniest thing about this is that I am still spending time with the biggest Klondike team working on cgminer and helping them get the Klondike hardware going in a basecamp project with 11 other people.
If they send me a Klondike board (which they might) it really wont be making me a fortune for my effort so far and the future effort I will expend on supporting it - but that's OK by me - I am still working with them.

Yes indeed Bicknellski is a lowlife and looking at how this thread has succeeded in passing their loss off to their customers and turning it into their own profit, I'm sure others could think of other words to describe him.

Meanwhile These BitFury chips are still slower than BFL chips but also use less power than the BFL chips ...
Cmon HashFast, KnC, can't someone hurry up and release a single chip that's faster than the BFL ASIC

You've got some serious narcissism problems, dude, and are lobbing dangerous accusations of delusions from your glass house.

[WinterParker]

wait the price is really ~ 2 BTC??

[Fiyasko]

Really?! Still Not Allowed to buy One unit? we MUST buy a batch of five?

wait the price is really ~ 2 BTC??

It was, But then the OP changed the price to 1.4btc each

[kano]

...
You've got some serious narcissism problems, dude, and are lobbing dangerous accusations of delusions from your glass house.

You're posting your delusions - no proof - as is typical.

[Xian01]

...
You've got some serious narcissism problems, dude, and are lobbing dangerous accusations of delusions from your glass house.

You're posting your delusions^* - no proof - as is typical.

^*

EDIT: I see you've been studying hard at the Zerlan Institute of Public Relations, huh ? Typical.

[Meizirkki]

You're posting your delusions - no proof - as is typical.

said josh about 1000 times

[bitterdog]

Kevin,

Do you have a picture as to what the shipping will be in? Will it be just a unit wrapped in bubble wrap or maybe a package like the AM BE's?

[LainZ]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

Yes indeed Bicknellski is a lowlife and looking at how this thread has succeeded in passing their loss off to their customers and turning it into their own profit, I'm sure others could think of other words to describe him.

Meanwhile These BitFury chips are still slower than BFL chips but also use less power than the BFL chips ...
Cmon HashFast, KnC, can't someone hurry up and release a single chip that's faster than the BFL ASIC

Strange how chips vendors (BFL, Bitfury, Avalon) have turned members of this mining community against each other!

Meanwhile, who's the fastest?

https://ghash.io/

[kano]

You're posting your delusions - no proof - as is typical.

said josh about 1000 times

Heh, funny, your argument and Xian01's about providing any proof, is to say that someone else you dislike asks for proof.

Directly implying that you think proof and truth are a bad thing.

Well - glad we cleared that up.

[Luke-Jr]

What does this have to do with the BF1?

[kano]

There's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. But it's a known secret that with rising diff and high prices only the seller will make a profit. Everyone can decide for itself but for newbies it's nothing but fair if people like Kano point out that stuff wont be profitable.

Yes indeed Bicknellski is a lowlife and looking at how this thread has succeeded in passing their loss off to their customers and turning it into their own profit, I'm sure others could think of other words to describe him.

Meanwhile These BitFury chips are still slower than BFL chips but also use less power than the BFL chips ...
Cmon HashFast, KnC, can't someone hurry up and release a single chip that's faster than the BFL ASIC

Strange how chips vendors (BFL, Bitfury, Avalon) have turned members of this mining community against each other!

Meanwhile, who's the fastest?

https://ghash.io/

For me this post is nothing to do with the chip vendors, read my post, don't remove 2 pieces of information that show that.
(... you got the quoting wrong)

[Xian01]

What does this have to do with the BF1?

 I believe his root argument is that mining with these, or any other available ASIC today, is not profitable, and feels the need to preach this like the fate of our species relies on that knowledge.

 Begs the question why he's into writing mining software to begin with, if not to get free ASIC's as a form of profit.

[kano]

What does this have to do with the BF1?

 I believe his root argument is that mining with these, or any other available ASIC today, is not profitable, and feels the need to preach this like the fate of our species relies on that knowledge.

...

Since you find it impossible to read and understand what I have posted in here I'll repeat it - rather than have you adjust what I've said to something I have not said - not unexpected at all though from you.

The first batch was 2.1BTC - no chance in hell of getting that back PPS mining - they will probably get back 1/3 of that.
So yes clearly a BTC loss - clear for all but the mathematically challenged.
Bicknellski and his cronies overpaid for the chips (they were priced and called 'dev' chips for a reason that was clearly beyond their understanding) and once they realised their mistake, they decided to sell their hardware they were mining on, at a price to convert that loss into a profit, by providing a high loss to their buyers. Seems they have succeeded in converting that loss to a profit for themselves.

It's is simple to estimate which ASIC anyone buys will lose BTC.
A lot do lose.
I take it that is too complex for you to estimate?

FYI - just to add some more amusing information on the subject
Bicknellski sent one to ckolivas - even though ckolivas asked him to send it to me since ckolivas is rather short on time to do the driver at the moment ... though I had a requirement before I'd consider writing the driver, and that was that their next batch price wasn't a rip off like the first batch. Anyway, Bicknellski wouldn't send it to me. No big deal it is only 2.5GH/s - and wont make much BTC at all for the time and effort to support it - but it probably also means a driver delay for those who paid him all that BTC No big deal - one less BTC hardware item to add to my growing list of hardware that I support for the community even when they don't make a profit for me It will be done by ckolivas soon enough and he'll support it - so again no big deal. The only side effect will be that if anyone asks me for support of them I'll refer them to ckolivas - yet again no big deal

[Xian01]

I take it that is too complex for you to estimate?

 Shut up, Josh.

FYI - just to add some more amusing information on the subject
Bicknellski sent one to ckolivas - even though ckolivas asked him to send it to me since ckolivas is rather short on time to do the driver at the moment ... though I had a requirement before I'd consider writing the driver, and that was that their next batch price wasn't a rip off like the first batch. Anyway, Bicknellski wouldn't send it to me. No big deal it is only 2.5GH/s - and wont make much BTC at all for the time and effort to support it - but it probably also means a driver delay for those who paid him all that BTC No big deal - one less BTC hardware item to add to my growing list of hardware that I support for the community even when they don't make a profit for me It will be done by ckolivas soon enough and he'll support it - so again no big deal. The only side effect will be that if anyone asks me for support of them I'll refer them to ckolivas - yet again no big deal

 I appreciate the anecdote, but could you have made it without coming across as more of a self-important, arrogant and pompous douche-bag ?

 Anyway, this thread is not about you.

 *hugs*

PS: As to your driver delay, hell has frozen over, and BFGMiner has been rock-solid running my Erupter USB's for almost (heh) two weeks now, and I'll be using it to drive the BF1's as it's already supported.

[xstr8guy]

There's always BFGMiner if CGMiner doesn't work with the Redfury USBs. 

[kano]

There's always BitMinter if CGMiner doesn't work with the Redfury USBs. 

FTFY
But indeed as I said, once ckolivas gets the time he'll do the driver.

Yet another time a developer is losing out to help someone make a profit

That used to only be the realm of the big manufacturers, not the small/DIY groups.
Seems that's changed now also.

[Bicknellski]

There's always BFGMiner if CGMiner doesn't work with the Redfury USBs.  

I am hoping that CKolivas will in his spare time devote some energy to the BF1 USB I sent him which should arrive by Wednesday. I suppose I could release the full text of the PM between CKolivas and I but that would be pretty embarassing for Kano so I won't. Although he asked me directly to think about giving Kano the unit I declined because Kano purposefully dumps on threads and manufacturers that don't play ball with him as was directly inferred PM's with Ckolivas. (free hardware, kiss his ass = smooth ride). Extortionists don't get anything from me. Let it be known I will with every fiber of my being AVOID sending anything to Kano and I think the community should take a long hard look at his efforts to support BFL when clearly people were going to lose money. When Luke Jr. asked for a BF1 I gave him the same speech. No I wouldn't ever think about putting a device in your hand due to your lack of integrity with the whole BFL fiasco. Open Source Software developers and Open Source projects in general need to remain neutral but these guys are not playing that way. CKolivas is neutral and we need more people like that.

Code:

12. License Must Be Technology-Neutral
No provision of the license may be predicated on any individual technology, specific part or component, material, or style of interface or use thereof.

Unfortunately by acting in this way they have stretched the spirit of the open source code by being 'cheerleaders' for some projects and 'vehement' detractors of others. Maybe if people stop using them they might just go away? Either way it is a pattern especially in Kano with Avalon, now these units and his ardent support for BFL. Sickening.

And let us be clear.

I have sold 8 units personally and that is the extent of my "benefit" from these units being sold to the community and further to that I have worked to find a fair and equitable solution to the ROI issue with my buyer that includes discounts on any future boards I produce so I am very much aware of the shortcomings of these units and have done my utmost to mitigate the pain as it were. So far be it from me to expect Kano to know that but I guess we can see what his real agenda is here it is personally directed at me and has little or nothing at all to do with PROTECTING the consumer. I suggest people should avoid sending him hardware as there is a clear pattern of extortion and false accusations littering the threads read the Avalon fiaso threads for his pattern. If you give him hardware then he is more likely to support your cause and promote it. Ignore him at your peril is the lesson here. The remaining units I own are being donated to developers for study, one is in Software the other Hardware, but ya I am out to screw over the community that is right. Nothing like donating to support the community right? Like I did with the DIY BKK build? My pattern of behavior is completely different than what Kano is trying unsuccessfully to paint it as. However his is pretty plain to see for all who follow his posts.

[kano]

...
I am hoping that CKolivas will in his spare time devote some energy to the BF1 USB I sent him which should arrive by Wednesday. I suppose I could release the full text of the PM between CKolivas and I but that would be pretty embarassing for Kano so I won't.

Please do - I am in no way concerned about hiding the truth - unlike you clearly are.

I've asked ckolivas and he said he didn't mind.

Although he asked me directly to think about giving Kano the unit I declined because Kano purposefully dumps on threads and manufacturers that don't play ball with him as was directly inferred PM's with Ckolivas. (free hardware, kiss his ass = smooth ride). Extortionists don't get anything from me. Let it be known I will with every fiber of my being AVOID sending anything to Kano

As I said, I had a requirement of you not ripping off the community before I'd accept the hardware ... so yes I'm glad you won't be sending me hardware, coz it would end up in the bin, I'd not dirty my hands with it. You have already rejected that, so certainly in future, I'd certainly not support hardware from someone who got in on a project that was already ripping off their buyers and then promote it and sell some of it themselves.

... and I think the community should take a long hard look at his efforts to support BFL when clearly people were going to lose money.

Feel free to point out my efforts to support BFL.
Come on, you seem to think it is obvious, thus it must be easy for you to find links ... hell I'm sure if you even picked one link completely out of context somewhere you'd be able to find something to back your misdirection.

When Luke Jr. asked for a BF1 I gave him the same speech. No I wouldn't ever think about putting a device in your hand due to your lack of integrity with the whole BFL fiasco. Open Source Software developers and Open Source projects in general need to remain neutral but these guys are not playing that way. CKolivas is neutral and we need more people like that.

Code:

12. License Must Be Technology-Neutral
No provision of the license may be predicated on any individual technology, specific part or component, material, or style of interface or use thereof.

Unfortunately by acting in this way they have stretched the spirit of the open source code by being 'cheerleaders' for some projects and 'vehement' detractors of others. Maybe if people stop using them they might just go away? Either way it is a pattern especially in Kano with Avalon, now these units and his ardent support for BFL. Sickening.

OK, you make a claim - where is this ardent support?
Come on, you couldn't be making this up and trying to detract from yourself could you?
Where is the ardent support you are lying about?

And let us be clear.

I have sold 8 units personally and that is the extent of my "benefit" from these units being sold to the community and further to that I have worked to find a fair and equitable solution to the ROI issue with my buyer that includes discounts on any future boards I produce so I am very much aware of the shortcomings of these units and have done my utmost to mitigate the pain as it were. So far be it from me to expect Kano to know that but I guess we can see what his real agenda is here it is personally directed at me and has little or nothing at all to do with PROTECTING the consumer. I suggest people should avoid sending him hardware as there is a clear pattern of extortion and false accusations littering the threads read the Avalon fiaso threads for his pattern. If you give him hardware then he is more likely to support your cause and promote it. Ignore him at your peril is the lesson here. The remaining units I own are being donated to developers for study, one is in Software the other Hardware, but ya I am out to screw over the community that is right. Nothing like donating to support the community right? Like I did with the DIY BKK build? My pattern of behavior is completely different than what Kano is trying unsuccessfully to paint it as. However his is pretty plain to see for all who follow his posts.

Klondike is still happening and I'm still working with them.
Where are you with Klondike? Left people out in the cold who gave you money?
I've no idea - but I certainly hope you haven't done that with the BTC you got for Klondike stuff.

Then you jumped here to someone who is trying to cover their losses by passing them on - which they, and you, have done.

[Bicknellski]

When your own 'partner' calls you an asshole... not much more I can add.

[kano]

When your own 'partner' calls you an asshole... not much more I can add.

Still hiding
Aww - thought you'd play a bluff and I wouldn't want everyone to read what was said?
Again - I call your bluff - post it.

[Askit2]

There's always BFGMiner if CGMiner doesn't work with the Redfury USBs.  

SNIP

Unfortunately by acting in this way they have stretched the spirit of the open source code by being 'cheerleaders' for some projects and 'vehement' detractors of others. Maybe if people stop using them they might just go away? Either way it is a pattern especially in Kano with Avalon, now these units and his ardent support for BFL. Sickening.

And let us be clear.

I have sold 8 units personally and that is the extent of my "benefit" from these units being sold to the community and further to that I have worked to find a fair and equitable solution to the ROI issue with my buyer that includes discounts on any future boards I produce so I am very much aware of the shortcomings of these units and have done my utmost to mitigate the pain as it were. So far be it from me to expect Kano to know that but I guess we can see what his real agenda is here it is personally directed at me and has little or nothing at all to do with PROTECTING the consumer. I suggest people should avoid sending him hardware as there is a clear pattern of extortion and false accusations littering the threads read the Avalon fiaso threads for his pattern. If you give him hardware then he is more likely to support your cause and promote it. Ignore him at your peril is the lesson here. The remaining units I own are being donated to developers for study, one is in Software the other Hardware, but ya I am out to screw over the community that is right. Nothing like donating to support the community right? Like I did with the DIY BKK build? My pattern of behavior is completely different than what Kano is trying unsuccessfully to paint it as. However his is pretty plain to see for all who follow his posts.

For your complaints about BFL not making ROI it depends on how you define ROI.
ME: I spent ~$620 on a BFL FPGA Single (modded it for better thermal properties) and ran 864mHash. Then Spent BTC worth ~$620 on an upgrade Jalapeno pack (sure another FPGA would have been better as an investment). Paid for another single Jalapeno BTC worth ~$150. Paid for another 4 Jalapeno's with Bitcoins at ~650 and finally another 3 to even out the number to usb ports (16). I have paid for comic con in SLC with some of my Bitcoins 2 VIP tickets at $300 and $500 in spending money. I still have over 4K left over. Now did I make all my Bitcoins back> NO. I started with a bit over 600$ and have now ~800$ a month in income. I have so far 9 of the 16 Jalapeno's so I could be doing better but it isn't like I haven't made my money back.

To be fair it depends on how long a person is willing to wait if your product does make ROI and how they value it. But don't slam a company just because someone questions you. BFL did delay a long time, my order was glitched, I still did OK. I just don't value the purchases in BTC.

[bigbeninlondon]

Can we call a ceasefire?  People know what they are getting into.  This thread is about the BF1 USB miner; not developer integrity or manufacturer integrity.  Kano has supported a lot of stuff, and Bicknellski has been supportive of the DIY community as far as I've seen.  I've participated in group buys with him and I've watched him refund K1's before he even received his refund.

Both of you guys are assets to bitcoin in one way or another.  Any way we can leave it at that?

[Xian01]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Texas...

[xstr8guy]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Texas...

Can't we all agree on this (whether they will ever ROI or not), they look fookin' cool!

I could honestly care less about ROI as long as I can eventually have 10 of these hashing away in a hub next to my desk.  4 on the way from an eBay buy (not preorder either).  But I'll wait for the other 6 when the price drops a bit.

[bitterdog]

Now if we can get some native windows drivers please?

[Bicknellski]

Now if we can get some native windows drivers please?

... CKolivas has received a unit. When / if he has spare time this might happen.

[Bicknellski]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Texas...

Purdy and a thanks to Turtle for helping you out.

[Xian01]

Purdy and a thanks to Turtle for helping you out.

 Yes, big thanks to Turtle indeed ! Great work everyone involved with this project. Very exciting to see this next generation coming online.

[integrity42]

Wow. The amount of stupidity on this thread is mind-boggling.

Are people actually trolling kano/ckolivas who have put hundreds of hours into coding free software?  I certainly hope not.

And the idiots who want to waste thousands of dollars because the USB miners 'look cool'?? You want 10 of these things to look cool??
I'll make you a board with a heat sink on it and 5 flashing LED's for $1 and you can plug those in because they look cool.
A fool and his money are quickly separated...

Fact is that either these guys are lying about selling out all their stock, or there are WAY more idiots out there who can't do math then I thought.

Poor bastards.

[bigbeninlondon]

Wow. The amount of stupidity on this thread is mind-boggling.

Are people actually trolling kano/ckolivas who have put hundreds of hours into coding free software?  I certainly hope not.

And the idiots who want to waste thousands of dollars because the USB miners 'look cool'?? You want 10 of these things to look cool??
I'll make you a board with a heat sink on it and 5 flashing LED's for $1 and you can plug those in because they look cool.
A fool and his money are quickly separated...

Fact is that either these guys are lying about selling out all their stock, or there are WAY more idiots out there who can't do math then I thought.

Poor bastards.

The heatsinks are worth about $1.  I'd buy some. 

[lano1106]

I've seen these keys sold at around 0.9-0.85 BTC

Great product. Just waiting the price to be right.

At 0.3333 BTC/ GHs they are slightly cheaper than AM BE at 0.12 BTC but the NF1 when ready will be sold at ~0.5 BTC for 2 GH/s or 0.25 BTC/GHs

When your product will be at 0.6-0.5, I'll seriously look to buy 20 something of them.

[ssinc]

Here are some setup instructions I put together for people new to linux :

Ubuntu Linux Setup Instructions :

1 ) Download Ubuntu x64 from : http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

2 ) Install on a PC or on a Virtual Machine.

3 ) Once installed Find and Open Terminal by pressing CTRL + ALT + T

4 ) Type the following lines and press enter after each one :

Code:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:theturtle1983/mining
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install bfgminer

5 ) Plug in your Blue Fury Miner in your favorite USB hub/port

6 ) Find the Blue Fury device name in your /Dev Folder. Mine was named ttyACM0 (yours should be similar)



7 ) Type the following into Terminal :

Code:

sudo bfgminer -o [pool name] -u [username] -p [password] -S bitfury:/dev/ttyACM0

*obviously change everything in brackets to your personal pool settings.

8 ) Hash Away!  

[Bicknellski]

Here are some setup instructions I put together for people new to linux :

Ubuntu Linux Setup Instructions :

1 ) Download Ubuntu x64 from : http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

2 ) Install on a PC or on a Virtual Machine.

3 ) Once installed Find and Open Terminal by pressing CTRL + ALT + T

4 ) Type the following lines and press enter after each one :

Code:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:theturtle1983/mining
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install bfgminer

5 ) Plug in your Blue Fury Miner in your favorite USB hub/port

6 ) Find the Blue Fury device name in your /Dev Folder. Mine was named ttyACM0 (yours should be similar)



7 ) Type the following into Terminal :

Code:

sudo bfgminer -o [pool name] -u [username] -p [password] -S bitfury:/dev/ttyACM0

*obviously change everything in brackets to your personal pool settings.

8 ) Hash Away!  

Thanks SSINC... was waiting for someone from the group to post that for weeks now.

[bitterdog]

the reason that people love blocker eruptor so much is because they are easy to use plugin and you can basically hit the button and go this Linux solution is fine for people are in the know but not for the target audience of what this should be. Those windows drivers are imparative to this being successful

[TheQuin]

the reason that people love blocker eruptor so much is because they are easy to use plugin and you can basically hit the button and go this Linux solution is fine for people are in the know but not for the target audience of what this should be. Those windows drivers are imparative to this being successful

+1

[Xian01]

Here are some setup instructions I put together for people new to linux :

 https://github.com/aauer1/bfgminer

 For the brave, gitHub source here provided via Turtle / Bick. Make sure you "git clone" the repo locally. I had trouble getting the downloaded .zip to compile.

 Additionally, was missing a bunch of dependencies (my fault entirely for not properly RTFMing) that threw the system into a "wonky" state that didn't recognize the sticks until I unplugged and replugged them back in. Please double-check your dependencies if things don't run the first time.

 As to the difficulty-level of getting these guys running vs Block Erupter USB's, please understand this is still the first batch, and wider driver support will likely come online in short order.

[Beastlymac]

the reason that people love blocker eruptor so much is because they are easy to use plugin and you can basically hit the button and go this Linux solution is fine for people are in the know but not for the target audience of what this should be. Those windows drivers are imparative to this being successful

We plan to have them out before we ship or blue fury lot.

[bitterdog]

the reason that people love blocker eruptor so much is because they are easy to use plugin and you can basically hit the button and go this Linux solution is fine for people are in the know but not for the target audience of what this should be. Those windows drivers are imparative to this being successful

We plan to have them out before we ship or blue fury lot.

Im counting on this . I committed a large buy based on progress so far

[xstr8guy]

Here are some setup instructions I put together for people new to linux :

Ubuntu Linux Setup Instructions :

1 ) Download Ubuntu x64 from : http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

2 ) Install on a PC or on a Virtual Machine.

3 ) Once installed Find and Open Terminal by pressing CTRL + ALT + T

4 ) Type the following lines and press enter after each one :

Code:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:theturtle1983/mining
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install bfgminer

5 ) Plug in your Blue Fury Miner in your favorite USB hub/port

6 ) Find the Blue Fury device name in your /Dev Folder. Mine was named ttyACM0 (yours should be similar)



7 ) Type the following into Terminal :

Code:

sudo bfgminer -o [pool name] -u [username] -p [password] -S bitfury:/dev/ttyACM0

*obviously change everything in brackets to your personal pool settings.

8 ) Hash Away!  

Thanks SSINC... was waiting for someone from the group to post that for weeks now.

I don't have any file with a name similar to ttyACM0.  How do I find the proper dev file?

[Xian01]

I don't have any file with a name similar to ttyACM0.  How do I find the proper dev file?

What does

ls -l /dev/ttyACM* return ?

 Eg:

Code:

root@xubuntu64:~# ls -l /dev/ttyACM*
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM3
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 4 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM4
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 5 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM5
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 6 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM6
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 7 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM7

[bigbeninlondon]

I don't have any file with a name similar to ttyACM0.  How do I find the proper dev file?

What does

ls -l /dev/ttyACM* return ?

 Eg:

Code:

root@xubuntu64:~# ls -l /dev/ttyACM*
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM3
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 4 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM4
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 5 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM5
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 6 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM6
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 7 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM7

http://bit.ly/18XRjgj

[xstr8guy]

I don't have any file with a name similar to ttyACM0.  How do I find the proper dev file?

Ok, I've managed to get all 4 of them installed and I have ttyACM0, ttyACM1, ttyACM2, ttyACM3.  I also have them connected to the VM.  But I'm not sure what to enter here since I have 4 devices... 

Code:

sudo bfgminer -o http://stratum.btcguild.com:3333 -u username_workername -p password -S bitfury:/dev/ttyACM0

And when I start BFGMiner with the code above, I don't get anything hashing except the CPU cores, which I obviously don't want.  Be gentle, this is my first time running Ubuntu and I'm so lost!

[xstr8guy]

I don't have any file with a name similar to ttyACM0.  How do I find the proper dev file?

What does

ls -l /dev/ttyACM* return ?

 Eg:

Code:

root@xubuntu64:~# ls -l /dev/ttyACM*
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM3
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 4 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM4
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 5 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM5
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 6 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM6
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 7 Sep 25 19:05 /dev/ttyACM7

Code:

crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 18:01 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 18:11 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 18:06 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 18:12 /dev/ttyACM3

[Xian01]

Code:

crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 18:01 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 18:11 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 18:06 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 18:12 /dev/ttyACM3

 ... fo shiggles, try

Code:

apt-get install libcurl4-gnutls-dev
apt-get install libjansson-dev
apt-get install uthash-dev
apt-get install libudev-dev

While troubleshooting, Turtle had me try launching bfgminer with;

Code:

--text-only --debug

 to get additional troubleshooting data.

 Unplug and replug the sticks after installing libudev-dev

I'm running with -S ALL to scan everything.

[xstr8guy]

Code:

crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Sep 25 18:01 /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 1 Sep 25 18:11 /dev/ttyACM1
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 2 Sep 25 18:06 /dev/ttyACM2
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 3 Sep 25 18:12 /dev/ttyACM3

 ... fo shiggles, try

Code:

apt-get install libcurl4-gnutls-dev
apt-get install libjansson-dev
apt-get install uthash-dev
apt-get install libudev-dev

While troubleshooting, Turtle had me try launching bfgminer with;

Code:

--text-only --debug

 to get additional troubleshooting data.

 Unplug and replug the sticks after installing libudev-dev

I'm running with -S ALL to scan everything.

You do know that I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, lol.  I tried entering the above and I got this...

Code:

E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?

[Xian01]

You do know that I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, lol.  I tried entering the above and I got this...

Code:

E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?

 Apologies. Please pre-pend "sudo " to the start of each of those apt-get's.

 I'm a little bit nuts and run as root whilst tinkering...

eg;

Code:

sudo apt-get install libcurl4-gnutls-dev

[xstr8guy]

You do know that I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, lol.  I tried entering the above and I got this...

Code:

E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?

 Apologies. Please pre-pend "sudo " to the start of each of those apt-get's.

 I'm a little bit nuts and run as root whilst tinkering...

eg;

Code:

sudo apt-get install libcurl4-gnutls-dev

Bleah!

 

Code:

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libgcrypt11-dev libgnutls-dev libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutlsxx27 libgpg-error-dev
  libidn11-dev libldap2-dev libp11-kit-dev librtmp-dev libtasn1-3-dev
Suggested packages:
  libcurl3-dbg libgcrypt11-doc gnutls26-doc gnutls-bin
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libcurl4-gnutls-dev libgcrypt11-dev libgnutls-dev libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutlsxx27
  libgpg-error-dev libidn11-dev libldap2-dev libp11-kit-dev librtmp-dev libtasn1-3-dev
0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 3,742 kB of archives.
After this operation, 10.7 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y
Abort.

Why did it abort?

[xstr8guy]

Who wants to buy these fucking thing?  Selling CHEAP!  

Where the hell are the Windows drivers for these god damn pieces of shit?

[xstr8guy]

You do know that I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, lol.  I tried entering the above and I got this...

Code:

E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?

 Apologies. Please pre-pend "sudo " to the start of each of those apt-get's.

 I'm a little bit nuts and run as root whilst tinkering...

eg;

Code:

sudo apt-get install libcurl4-gnutls-dev

Bleah!

 

Code:

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libgcrypt11-dev libgnutls-dev libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutlsxx27 libgpg-error-dev
  libidn11-dev libldap2-dev libp11-kit-dev librtmp-dev libtasn1-3-dev
Suggested packages:
  libcurl3-dbg libgcrypt11-doc gnutls26-doc gnutls-bin
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libcurl4-gnutls-dev libgcrypt11-dev libgnutls-dev libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutlsxx27
  libgpg-error-dev libidn11-dev libldap2-dev libp11-kit-dev librtmp-dev libtasn1-3-dev
0 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 3,742 kB of archives.
After this operation, 10.7 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Y
Abort.

Why did it abort?

Ok, closed and restarted the terminal window and got that package to load.  Now what?

Thanks for your patience Xian!

[xstr8guy]

This looked important...

Code:

 [2013-09-25 19:30:52] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM0                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM0: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM1                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM1: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM2: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM3                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM3: get 00000000,

[Xian01]

This looked important...

Unplug, replug a stick, and PM me the output of;

Code:

dmesg | tail -40

Lets move this to PM if you are unfamiliar with Linux.

[Luke-Jr]

Where the hell are the Windows drivers for these god damn pieces of shit?

It really shouldn't be hard to roll your own... I'll probably do it in under 10 minutes once I get one 

This looked important...

Code:

 [2013-09-25 19:30:52] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM0                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM0: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM1                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM1: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM2: get 00000000, should: 000187a2                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Attempting to open /dev/ttyACM3                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Read: No data in 0.10 seconds                    
 [2013-09-25 19:30:53] Icarus Detect: Test failed at /dev/ttyACM3: get 00000000,

These don't like Icarus probes, so you can't use -S all with them. Try -S bigpic:all

[Beastlymac]

Where the hell are the Windows drivers for these

Here is the alpha windows version. It is not 100% ready but feel free to give it a shot.
https://mega.co.nz/#fmcBIRVKZL

[xstr8guy]

Where the hell are the Windows drivers for these

Here is the alpha windows version. It is not 100% ready but feel free to give it a shot.
https://mega.co.nz/#fmcBIRVKZL

Check your link.  I get nothing but an option to upload something.

[xstr8guy]

Where the hell are the Windows drivers for these god damn pieces of shit?

It really shouldn't be hard to roll your own... I'll probably do it in under 10 minutes once I get one 

This looked important...

These don't like Icarus probes, so you can't use -S all with them. Try -S bigpic:all

I'm still getting nothing but the CPU cores hashing.  Is there something else I should be doing here?..

Code:

sudo bfgminer -o http://stratum.btcguild.com:3333 -u username_workername -p password -S bigpic:all

[Bicknellski]

Cklovias is close to a solution I think... he has his BitFury USB mining.

[xstr8guy]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.   

[Beastlymac]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.  

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn
or
http://www.mediafire.com/download/819me4zvdju8lyg/bfgminerWin.zip
^alpha drivers.

[bitterdog]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.   

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn

nice!

[18RATTT]

there are 2 files in the bfgminerWin.zip
i. bf1.inf (this is the bf1 usb windows driver)
go to "Device Manager" > "Ports (COM & LPT)", you will see the bf1 usb listed here, double click it, update driver > browse my computer for software > go to bf1.inf

ii. the bfgminer folder with batch file included (#MINE.bat)
simply edit the file in notepad, add your bitcoin address, save, run the batch file to start mining.

[xstr8guy]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.   

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn

Driver won't install on Windows 8 because it isn't signed. 
 

[xstr8guy]

Thanks for all the help everyone... finally got them hashing!

[xstr8guy]

By request...

[JayCoin]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.  

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn
^alpha drivers.

That is not a very good site to distribute files on.  Please use a better distribution method for files. This site is a virus/adware/malware haven.

[Beastlymac]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.  

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn
^alpha drivers.

That is not a very good site to distribute files on.  Please use a better distribution method for files. This site is a virus/adware/malware haven.

here it is on mediafire
http://www.mediafire.com/download/819me4zvdju8lyg/bfgminerWin.zip

[tool_462]

I loaded it up once and it ran just fine at ~2.65GH/s for a few hours, then I restarted my PC (changed nothing) and now when I run it the only thing detected is OCL 0 (CPU) and it won't find my BF1.  Device Manager shows no issues and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and a fresh DL of the BFGMiner.

Any bright ideas?

[xstr8guy]

I loaded it up once and it ran just fine at ~2.65GH/s for a few hours, then I restarted my PC (changed nothing) and now when I run it the only thing detected is OCL 0 (CPU) and it won't find my BF1.  Device Manager shows no issues and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and a fresh DL of the BFGMiner.

Any bright ideas?

Thanks for the warning!  I won't restart my computer if I can help it.  But sorry, no ideas. 

[-ck]

Cklovias is close to a solution I think... he has his BitFury USB mining.

Working fine on linux. Windows hates me and refuses to behave 

[Beastlymac]

Cklovias is close to a solution I think... he has his BitFury USB mining.

Working fine on linux. Windows hates me and refuses to behave 

typical windows.

[Thirtybird]

Cklovias is close to a solution I think... he has his BitFury USB mining.

Working fine on linux. Windows hates me and refuses to behave 

typical windows.

typical third-party software junk 

[-ck]

redfury branch for cgminer works fine for linux now.

https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer/tree/redfury

[ssinc]

Looking good on Windows 7 

[bigbeninlondon]

Should difficulty be set to 2 or 3 for a 2GH/s miner so as to avoid spamming the pool with 1diff shares?  How many GH/s do you need to have before that becomes necessary?

[Beastlymac]

Should difficulty be set to 2 or 3 for a 2GH/s miner so as to avoid spamming the pool with 1diff shares?  How many GH/s do you need to have before that becomes necessary?

Slush pool sets it to 2 with one unit hashing

[tool_462]

I loaded it up once and it ran just fine at ~2.65GH/s for a few hours, then I restarted my PC (changed nothing) and now when I run it the only thing detected is OCL 0 (CPU) and it won't find my BF1.  Device Manager shows no issues and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and a fresh DL of the BFGMiner.

Any bright ideas?

So, for the record I again, touched nothing.  Just opened up #MINE and it is up and working just fine.

Who knows...

[xstr8guy]

I loaded it up once and it ran just fine at ~2.65GH/s for a few hours, then I restarted my PC (changed nothing) and now when I run it the only thing detected is OCL 0 (CPU) and it won't find my BF1.  Device Manager shows no issues and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and a fresh DL of the BFGMiner.

Any bright ideas?

So, for the record I again, touched nothing.  Just opened up #MINE and it is up and working just fine.

Who knows...

Ok, I made a bonehead move!  I wanted to change pools and restarted BFGMiner and now I can't get these little bastards to work on either pool now.

Any ideas how I can get them running again on Windows?

[xstr8guy]

Got them running again but I'm not sure what I did.  I uninstalled the drivers, reinstalled, unplugged the USB, plugged them back in, etc.  and eventually BFGMiner recognized them.

[-ck]

New official version of cgminer, 3.5.0, now contains support for mining with BF1 devices on both linux and windows.

[Bicknellski]

New official version of cgminer, 3.5.0, now contains support for mining with BF1 devices on both linux and windows.

+1.

Sweet. Don't forget to tip Ckolivas for the quick turn around guys. He is extremely busy and did this in a FLASH, much appreciated!

[turtle83]

New official version of cgminer, 3.5.0, now contains support for mining with BF1 devices on both linux and windows.

.deb for raspbian : https://mega.co.nz/#!HdZWXaJL!f8Tq2Td275SK1Dkv0KiBYAQQuFN00vfsuL3v7_cIrsE

Instructions:

Code:

sudo apt-get update #Make sure repos are up to date
sudo dpkg -i cgminer_3.5.0-1_armhf.deb #May complain about missing dependencies, dont panic next step takes care of it
sudo apt-get -f install #Installs the needed dependencies and then failed cgminer form above step.

[Bicknellski]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

[Beastlymac]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcpX3wE-tFs
 

[Bicknellski]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcpX3wE-tFs
 

Ideal for CHRISTMAS those right?

[Xian01]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

 Still dutifully plugging away. Looking forward to getting more to upgrade my existing USB ASIC's and have a fire-sale on my Erupters.

[monsieurmarc]

Is there  a review done of these by anyone yet?

[xstr8guy]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

[Bicknellski]

Is there  a review done of these by anyone yet?

Nope, not as far as I know.

[Taugeran]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

i did the same thing. i believe i may have received a bad one or idk.

mine is producing >50% HW errors

[Beastlymac]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

Linux or windows? You can also try cgminer 3.5.0

[Beastlymac]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

i did the same thing. i believe i may have received a bad one or idk.

mine is producing >50% HW errors

What operating system are you using? Have you tried cgminer. Are you sure it is receiving enough power? Is it connected to a raspberry pi or a pc? Do any of the parts look damaged?

I am getting 0% HW errors on my ones so it sounds like some kind of issue.

[Taugeran]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

i did the same thing. i believe i may have received a bad one or idk.

mine is producing >50% HW errors

What operating system are you using? Have you tried cgminer. Are you sure it is receiving enough power? Is it connected to a raspberry pi or a pc? Do any of the parts look damaged?

I am getting 0% HW errors on my ones so it sounds like some kind of issue.

OS: x86 debian 7.1 wheezy
not tried cgminer (will do) plenty of powah.
machine: HP mini 110
no apparent damage

[Taugeran]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

i did the same thing. i believe i may have received a bad one or idk.

mine is producing >50% HW errors

What operating system are you using? Have you tried cgminer. Are you sure it is receiving enough power? Is it connected to a raspberry pi or a pc? Do any of the parts look damaged?

I am getting 0% HW errors on my ones so it sounds like some kind of issue.

OS: x86 debian 7.1 wheezy
not tried cgminer (will do) plenty of powah.
machine: HP mini 110
no apparent damage

ran cg 3.5.0 0.5% HW errors

ill take it

[Bicknellski]

Sweet... don't forget to tip ckolivas if you feel so inclined. 148KkS2vgVi4VzUi4JcKzM2PMaMVPi3nnq  <-- if I am not mistaken.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=19971

[xstr8guy]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

Linux or windows? You can also try cgminer 3.5.0

Windows and BFGMiner ONLY.  I refuse to use CGMiner unless it's already embedded in my device.

[Beastlymac]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

Linux or windows? You can also try cgminer 3.5.0

Windows and BFGMiner ONLY.  I refuse to use CGMiner unless it's already embedded in my device.

The windows version has problems. I would recommend either install Ubuntu vm or use cgminer.

[Luke-Jr]

The windows version has problems. I would recommend either install Ubuntu vm or use cgminer.

I have no outstanding bug reports for this... only on Mac.

[Beastlymac]

The windows version has problems. I would recommend either install Ubuntu vm or use cgminer.

I have no outstanding bug reports for this... only on Mac.

Our windows version. Not the one you have put together.

[Taugeran]

can the osc6 bits on these be tuned? just curious cuz ive got mine running off a 1.2A charging port on a drink 7port hub on a pi

[Luke-Jr]

can the osc6 bits on these be tuned? just curious cuz ive got mine running off a 1.2A charging port on a drink 7port hub on a pi

Yes, via RPC right now. EDIT: Sorry, I confused this with another device.

[Taugeran]

can the osc6 bits on these be tuned? just curious cuz ive got mine running off a 1.2A charging port on a drink 7port hub on a pi

Yes, via RPC right now. EDIT: Sorry, I confused this with another device.

all good. i knew you had it working for the nanofury. and found it in the source. but i couldnt find similar for bpmc

[bitcoinmining]

Unfortunately it doesn't give anyting, sorry guys 

[goggles1200]

I found a setup video for red fury miners on youtube that helped me out when I first got them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUtcah8iSNE

Hope this helps.

[kaisersolo]

Hello

I wonder If anyone can help
I have one of these USB miners
I run it with software BFGMiner 4.4.0

I get 10% Hardware Errors - is this normal?
Also When it Runs in BFGMiner it appears as BPM Is this right Have I got the correct driver installed? Should it not be BF1
Does anyone have a collection of windows inf drivers for the USB Miners

Thanks

[Bicknellski]

New official version of cgminer, 3.5.0, now contains support for mining with BF1 devices on both linux and windows.

.deb for raspbian : https://mega.co.nz/#!HdZWXaJL!f8Tq2Td275SK1Dkv0KiBYAQQuFN00vfsuL3v7_cIrsE

Instructions:

Code:

sudo apt-get update #Make sure repos are up to date
sudo dpkg -i cgminer_3.5.0-1_armhf.deb #May complain about missing dependencies, dont panic next step takes care of it
sudo apt-get -f install #Installs the needed dependencies and then failed cgminer form above step.

[Bicknellski]

Anyone have a working Windows driver yet?

I tried the VM/Ubuntu method and even installed a homemade driver someone sent me.  And one of those things destroyed my main computer.  I keep getting the BSoD and I can't even recover Windows 7.  Trying a fresh install of Windows 8 now.  

Windows drivers and compiled version from the ee are freshly uploaded.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q235dn
^alpha drivers.

That is not a very good site to distribute files on.  Please use a better distribution method for files. This site is a virus/adware/malware haven.

here it is on mediafire
http://www.mediafire.com/download/819me4zvdju8lyg/bfgminerWin.zip

[kaisersolo]

Thanks Guys
Sorry I should of mentioned that I am running Bfgminer on my Windows 7 PC.
Thanks for the windows inf's

I have tried them and install the driver for the red fury usb miner but It still giving me around 10% h/w errors and its description still is BPM.
Is this okay?

[Bicknellski]

How goes your miners people... nice to hear if they are still hashing hard?

I bought 4 on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  Together, they never quite get to 10GH/s but they do get close.

If I restart BFGMiner, I always have to fiddle around with them to get them working again.  Usually just pulling them out of the hub and swapping them around gets them hashing again.  Hopefully the driver and BFGMiner will mature a bit.

Linux or windows? You can also try cgminer 3.5.0

Windows and BFGMiner ONLY.  I refuse to use CGMiner unless it's already embedded in my device.

The windows version has problems. I would recommend either install Ubuntu vm or use cgminer.

[Beastlymac]

Thanks Guys
Sorry I should of mentioned that I am running Bfgminer on my Windows 7 PC.
Thanks for the windows inf's

I have tried them and install the driver for the red fury usb miner but It still giving me around 10% h/w errors and its description still is BPM.
Is this okay?

You should install the latest version of cgminer or bfgminer. Not the ones in this thread they're outdated. The error rate is from the bitfury chip itself and the deficiencies in the design. It isn't something that can be fixed.

[mewon]

Hello,
 
I have BitFury BF1 using it in windows/bfgminer with lufa-lib.org driver and runs well.
Now I'm trying Openwrt/bfgminer, but the device is not detected.
After opkg install bfgminer
I tried:
opkg install kmod-usb-serial-ftdi
opkg install kmod-usb-serial-cp210x
opkg install kmod-usb-serial-pl2303
opkg find bitstream*
opkg install bitstream-ztex-ufm1_15y1
opkg install bitstream-ztex-ufm1_15b1
opkg install bitstream-fpgaminer

but still not detected.
can someone help me?
Thanks

[Miasma]

My Red BitFurys are not recognized by MuM 3.3.4 BFGMiner 4.7.0. I've tried MuM's Scan Hardware but they don't get picked up. Win7 Device Manager sees all of them, e.g. Bitfury BF1 USB Miner (COM100). Anything I can try? TIA

[Luke-Jr]

My Red BitFurys are not recognized by MuM 3.3.4 BFGMiner 4.7.0. I've tried MuM's Scan Hardware but they don't get picked up. Win7 Device Manager sees all of them, e.g. Bitfury BF1 USB Miner (COM100). Anything I can try? TIA

These units tend to crash if they're probed for anything else, so you need to make sure you don't use -S all (or any other -S <driver>:all), and do use -S bigpic:all
To un-crash them, a power cycle is needed first.

[Miasma]

My Red BitFurys are not recognized by MuM 3.3.4 BFGMiner 4.7.0. I've tried MuM's Scan Hardware but they don't get picked up. Win7 Device Manager sees all of them, e.g. Bitfury BF1 USB Miner (COM100). Anything I can try? TIA

These units tend to crash if they're probed for anything else, so you need to make sure you don't use -S all (or any other -S <driver>:all), and do use -S bigpic:all
To un-crash them, a power cycle is needed first.

Ok, there they are. So they're very finicky. They're not recognized if there's a Block Eruptor plugged in. If there's a BFL SC plugged into the PC they're recognized but do not hash. So they can be the only USB miner connected to a given PC for them to mine.

Does it make any difference if in MuM -S bigpic:all goes in Configure/Miner/Settings/Arguments/SHA-256 or Configure/Miner/Settings/Arguments/Hardware Scan 

[Taugeran]

You can have more than just the BF1 on a system. It just has to be the first probed and all after that need to be specific ports. It's what ended up having to do  but I've migrated to nanofuries now so my BF1 hasn't seen sunshine in a while