[Active Mining] The UNofficial Active Mining Discussion Thread [UNmoderated]

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Active Mining has shuttered up its discussion thread, opting instead for a self-moderated one, populated by socks & cheerleaders.
I offer this thread as an open, uncensored forum for ActM discussion.

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[kololo]

"The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread "   "Official"?? Who are you?  Do you know the "Official" mean?

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"The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread "   "Official"?? Who are you?  Do you know the "Official" mean?

Let's not start off on the wrong foot.
Think of me as a virtual identity, your friend in this series of tubes known as the interweb.
I started this thread as the official forum for open discussion of "ActiveMining ... a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits."¹

The other "Official ActiveMining Discussion" thread is being astroturfed and self-moderated by the the CEO of ActiveMining Belize -- in effect, precluding dissenting voices from being heard, thus making genuine discussion impossible.
This thread is offered as a more balanced, unmoderated venue.

1. https://btct.co/security/ACTIVEMINING# ->Details.

Edit: @Stuartuk:  I am happy to discuss ActiveMining.  I can not stop you from voicing your opinion, and am willing to address it with all the diligence and attention it deserves.  This, of course, does not imply that you are free to spaz around & generally make a nuisance of yourself, as you have done in the past.  Spamming will not be tolerated.

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With the formalities & the hoi polloi out of the way, allow me to offer you a glimpse into the heady world of virtual finance, ActM shares, in particular:

One share was bought recently at BTCT:  00:07 (B) 1 @ 0.00235700 ACTIVEMINING

No, your kid wouldn't be able to afford a sippy-carton of milk with the proceeds (unless said milk is subsidized by the government), but it's a substantial sum considering the 59BTC (i'll spell it out, fifty-nine bitcoins) total bid depth.  Every satoshi counts.

Last trade on Bitfunder was 789 shares at .00154. 

[iCEBREAKER]

How many gigahash/watt/sec do ACTM's chips produce?  Is it the same or better than Bitfury/KnC?

Why is there no Miner Protection Plan option?  HashFast and Cointerra offer one...

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I see housekeeping has been busy clearing out the yelping trolls & their distemper.  Thanks, guys -- left you something under the ashtray on the nightstand.  But my thread was also renamed, leaving me with a bagfull of dicks mixed emotions. 
Such is life.

@iCECREAKER:

1.  "How many gigahash/watt/sec do ACTM's chips produce?  Is it the same or better than Bitfury/KnC?"

"... VMC will use eASIC Nextreme-3™ 28nm devices to create a series of scalable Bitcoin mining machines capable of generating up to 24.756 TH/s (tera hashes per second) of cryptographic hashes.

"... with the impressive performance and low power makes this an ideal solution for our Fast-Hash™"

In short, "up to 24.756 TH/s (tera hashes per second) of cryptographic hashes" at "low power," which translates neatly into: (not much)/24.756 TH/s.

2.  "Why is there no Miner Protection Plan option?  HashFast and Cointerra offer one..."



@pankkake:
"Every time I think it can't be worse, it is."

The market agrees with you.
On BTCT: 12:11 (S) 488 @ 0.00203400 ACTIVEMINING
On Bitfunder:  0.00151000

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There wasn't much reason for the share price to go over IPO in the first place.
I wouldn't really focus on the price until things actually happen.

I think you're being a bit too harsh.
ActiveMining has a wonderful backstory.  There's the international intrigue -- a US company with a London mailing address ... registered in Belize -- a country of sapphire seas, coral reefs, kaleidoscopic wildlife, great Mayan history.  

--Live action News Update--  12:40 (B) 10 @ 0.00149600 ACTIVEMINING --Live Action News Update--

Sorry for the interruption, that was too popcorn-worthy.
Anyhow, there's the cast of characters -- board of directors made up entirely of the Slaughter clan:

"Active Mining Corporation (Belize) Management Team:

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO/CTO
Gerald L. Slaughter, COO/CFO
Micha Slaughter, VP Manufacturing Operations"

Then, there's the Slaughter Underground -- a bunker of Doom Kenneth has reportedly leased for this venture.

There's the magic number -- "28," and that's not all...

Update:  Total bids on BTCT: 33 BTC.  That's called U GOT TEH BAG.

[RoadStress]

How many gigahash/watt/sec do ACTM's chips produce?  Is it the same or better than Bitfury/KnC?

Why is there no Miner Protection Plan option?  HashFast and Cointerra offer one...

They will be 0Gh/s at 0W/Gh since they will fail. This gets better every day. Shares move way down and kslaughter closes the main/original thread so he can open a new Moderated one. Very very funny!

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ActiveMining has a wonderful backstory.  There's the international intrigue -- a US company with a London mailing address ... registered in Belize -- a country of sapphire seas, coral reefs, kaleidoscopic wildlife, great Mayan history.

So? It's pretty common. If you can register in places with less regulations, all the better.

I agree, but this only reinforces the overall feel that this company is doing its best (no matter how innocently and artlessly) to obviate any chance of legal recourse for its shareholders if ActM goes belly-up.  

Edit:  AAaand a 52k dump on Bitfunder @.001000

[Puppet]

Im only just looking in to this company, so bear with me.

IPO:

The 28 nm chips are not going to be particularly good. It's not a custom design (BitFury showed how than can change things a lot). And yet, custom design for 28 nm is on the way.

Today even 65nm chips provide sellers a gigantic markup. Having "bad" 28nm available at cost before almost anyone else cant be a bad thing.

While eAsic can certainly supply a lot of chips, we have no idea at what cost.

True; but you can make educated guesses based on this chart:
http://www.easic.com/Spatr7ve/website-wp1/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Managing-Risk-and-Cost-Nextreme-NEW-ASIC-to-Standard-Cell-ASIC-Migration-v056.jpg

Granted its for the previous generation, but should give us some idea. The point were traditional cell based asics become cheaper than easic's nextreme is between 300 and 900K units according to them. Lets put it at 500K for arguments sake. That would mean 500K chips from AM would cost about the same as it would cost cointerra/KNC etc (although KNC is likely using a similar process) including NRE.

500K is a pretty decent amount that represents many millions of dollars in hardware sales (and/or mining revenue).

Total market cap was simply very high for an IPO. It looked more like the price it should have if everything goes well than the price it should be for such a risky market.

I could use some help here. What is their market cap? On btct I see 7,531. Is that right? ~$1M doesnt seem all that much to me. The asic design and masksets cost more and are worth a whole lot more if they can bring this to market this year.

There seem to be no particular valuable in-house competence; you'd have to wonder what is the value of a company only outsourcing.

Fair point. OTOH, this approach does have it advantages too, the work is more likely to be done by people who have experience and a clue, even if you have to pay them a premium. Given the nature of this market, paying a premium for hiring people's skill is not something to be avoided IMO.

The selling of shares was very weirdly done. (I don't remember exactly.)

ITs addressed in their faq, and seems like a reasonable/honest mistake.


Anyway, Im seriously considering investing in this.  I just want to find out a little more on how they intend to turn chips in to miners. Who is doing the PCBs, the software etc?

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...
Anyway, Im seriously considering investing in this.  I just want to find out a little more on how they intend to turn chips in to miners. Who is doing the PCBs, the software etc?

There's a blowout sale going on right now, both exchanges.  Go!

[drawingthesun]

Crumbs, you seem obsessed with Active Mining. Why don't you ever troll Labcoin.

[Puppet]

...
Anyway, Im seriously considering investing in this.  I just want to find out a little more on how they intend to turn chips in to miners. Who is doing the PCBs, the software etc?

There's a blowout sale going on right now, both exchanges.  Go!

Thats one reason Im interested. People seem to think activemining and labcoin are like the same, and are discovering one is an obvious scam and assuming the other one will therefore be one too.

I see no resemblance whatsoever, unless anyone wants to think a company like easic is in on it too.

Another reason people seem to vote down AM/VMC is because their list prices are too high. Well they are to high, but so what, all those 28nm prices are too high. As a shareholder thats a good thing and moreover they can just mine with anything unsold at cost.

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Crumbs, you seem obsessed with Active Mining. Why don't you ever troll Labcoin.

First, let's dispatch the accusations -- I started this thread, i can't possibly be trolling it.
As far as Labcoin, i simply do not know enough to weigh in.  I try to limit my comments to things that i'm sure about.

[zefyr0s]

Crumbs, you seem obsessed with Active Mining. Why don't you ever troll Labcoin.

First, let's dispatch the accusations -- I started this thread, i can't possibly be trolling it.
As far as Labcoin, i simply do not know enough to weigh in.  I try to limit my comments to things that i'm sure about.

But you started this thread to troll ActM. Where's your labcoin troll thread? Or your posts on their main thread?

For a while I've been concerned that whenever Lab drops or rises, so does ActM, and there's really no reason why that I can see..

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...
Anyway, Im seriously considering investing in this.  I just want to find out a little more on how they intend to turn chips in to miners. Who is doing the PCBs, the software etc?

There's a blowout sale going on right now, both exchanges.  Go!

Thats one reason Im interested. People seem to think activemining and labcoin are like the same, and are discovering one is an obvious scam and assuming the other one will therefore be one too.

I see no resemblance whatsoever, unless anyone wants to think a company like easic is in on it too.

Another reason people seem to vote down AM/VMC is because their list prices are too high. Well they are to high, but so what, all those 28nm prices are too high. As a shareholder thats a good thing and moreover they can just mine with anything unsold at cost.

I simply don't know enough about Labcoin to answer your first question, but i'll give the second one a shot.

I'm sure you agree that both Labcoin and ActM are risky bets, so the payoff -- hitting the jackpot -- has to be spectacular.  Unfortunately, for ActM, it is not.  If all the fears & concerns about ActM prove to be false and the chips are produced as promised, the company has proved itself absolutely incapable of managing PR & marketing, even when ready-made, turnkey solutions were presented to Kenneth *at zero cost as the advisory board quit in disgust*.  This is a hyper-competitive field, and bad marketing (which is unlikely to change) is as crippling as bad engineering.

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Crumbs, you seem obsessed with Active Mining. Why don't you ever troll Labcoin.

First, let's dispatch the accusations -- I started this thread, i can't possibly be trolling it.
As far as Labcoin, i simply do not know enough to weigh in.  I try to limit my comments to things that i'm sure about.

But you started this thread to troll ActM. Where's your labcoin troll thread? Or your posts on their main thread?

For a while I've been concerned that whenever Lab drops or rises, so does ActM, and there's really no reason why that I can see..

Perhaps people are waking up to the reality of investing in virtual entities, and to the notion that the wording on the exchanges claiming that nothing is real or verified, and the trades have no more footing in reality than the fairytales you used to hear as a child is more than just wording, but a grim fact?

[Puppet]

I'm sure you agree that both Labcoin and ActM are risky bets, so the payoff -- hitting the jackpot -- has to be spectacular.

I just cant see how you can compare them. Labcoin has no credibility, no proven trackrecord, nothing. Pictures of PCBs that couldnt possibly be functional PCBs.

Now IM not comparing that to AM, I dont know shit about the people behind AM either, but IM comparing it with easic and their public claims. What are the odds labcoin would bring a working asic to market and easic would fail? Zero. easic is using this chip to show off their brand new unannounced nextreme3 process. You can bet they will do anything to make it work!

 Unfortunately, for ActM, it is not.  If all the fears & concerns about ActM prove to be false and the chips are produced as promised, the company has proved itself absolutely incapable of managing PR & marketing, even when ready-made, turnkey solutions were presented to Kenneth *at zero cost as the advisory board quit in disgust*.  This is a hyper-competitive field, and bad marketing (which is unlikely to change) is as crippling as bad engineering.

No its not.  First proof of that is BFL. Second proof is Avalon.
Moreover, whatever AM sells as mining devices is icing on the cake, just mining themselves with this hardware at cost should give them a pretty darn nice ROI if they can deploy it before the end of the year.

So the only real risk I see, is turning working chips in to working miners. I guess BFL has proven how badly you can screw that up, so thats where Im looking for more info.

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I'm sure you agree that both Labcoin and ActM are risky bets, so the payoff -- hitting the jackpot -- has to be spectacular.

I just cant see how you can compare them. Labcoin has no credibility, no proven trackrecord, nothing. Pictures of PCBs that couldnt possibly be functional PCBs.

I'm not comparing them, as i tried to make clear in my last response.  I do not know enough about Labcoin.  As long as we agree that both Labcoin and ActM are risky investments, everything i said stands.

Now IM not comparing that to AM, I dont know shit about the people behind AM either, but IM comparing it with easic and their public claims. What are the odds labcoin would bring a working asic to market and easic would fail? Zero. easic is using this chip to show off their brand new unannounced nextreme3 process. You can bet they will do anything to make it work!

Unfortunately, for ActM, it is not.  If all the fears & concerns about ActM prove to be false and the chips are produced as promised, the company has proved itself absolutely incapable of managing PR & marketing, even when ready-made, turnkey solutions were presented to Kenneth *at zero cost as the advisory board quit in disgust*.  This is a hyper-competitive field, and bad marketing (which is unlikely to change) is as crippling as bad engineering.

No its not.  First proof of that is BFL. Second proof is Avalon.
Moreover, whatever AM sells as mining devices is icing on the cake, just mining themselves with this hardware at cost should give them a pretty darn nice ROI if they can deploy it before the end of the year.

So the only real risk I see, is turning working chips in to working miners. I guess BFL has proven how badly you can screw that up, so thats where Im looking for more info.

Edit after posting chart:  If you are convinced that ActM is a good bet, go for it. I would like to point out that if you haven't "invested" before making your post, you're about *twice as rich as you would have been*.

--Newsflash:



will update.  Edit: If talking to me has saved you from investing within the last 15 minutes, consider yourself *twice as rich*

[Puppet]

If you think its a better idea to buy shares after they went up and sell shares after they went down, I guess Im not interest in your investment advice.

I dont give a hoot about the current trend, Im interested in finding out about the fundamentals.