[PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela

[taseenb]

I agree it could be used short term in large scale but long term the fundamentals or supply and demand behind crypto currency do affect the value it holds. 

This doesn't make any sense to me, sorry. Adoption is not speculation: adoption doesn't have short/long terms. Once a currency is adopted by millions of people and used for large scale oil trade (billions of USD), its demand gets high. Even if its value can be traded in speculative contexts (exchanges), it's hard to destroy without massive financial efforts.

[happyminer1]

Nothing of this makes the article academic and substantiated. It just explains why you think the author doesn't have to provide proof for some of his strong (false) claims because they are suposedly well known and public.

All he says is very simple and totally true, there are plenty of links in the article for the specific stories. As for events that refer to more than 2-3 years ago, it's very well known history that you don't clearly know nothing about but can find everywhere, including in a decent history book. The desperation to reinvent reality and deny the most obvious and proved facts is quite amazing.

Links are no proof at all if they are not to reliable sources and if they don't actually say, what is claimed. I can provide you links for the most nonsensical claims.

Where is tne proof that a phone call from Colombia to Julio Borges, the chief negotiator of the opposition, stopped the months’ long process with a “No firme”?

[taseenb]

Where is tne proof that a phone call from Colombia to Julio Borges, the chief negotiator of the opposition, stopped the months’ long process with a “No firme”?

Desperately clutching at straws.

That's an irrelevant detail (the telephone call): the letter of Zapatero is the proof of the whole case (ie. US funded opposition takes order from the US: it couldn't be otherwise, they pay, they decide). Hypocrisy is out of control. The list of disasters provoked by US policies in the region is endless. Good luck with the Petro.

[happyminer1]

Where is tne proof that a phone call from Colombia to Julio Borges, the chief negotiator of the opposition, stopped the months’ long process with a “No firme”?

Desperately clutching at straws.

That's an irrelevant detail (the telephone call): the letter of Zapatero is the proof of the whole case (ie. US funded opposition takes order from the US: it couldn't be otherwise, they pay, they decide). Hypocrisy is out of control. The list of disasters provoked by US policies in the region is endless. Good luck with the Petro.

The letter of Zapatero is no proof at all that the opposition takes order from the US. Read it:

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Ex-Prime-Minister-Zapatero-Criticizes-Venezuelan-Opposition-20180207-0046.html

(The letter isn't honest either, but that's another point.)

[taseenb]

Whatever. More than that, with a third party clearly showing the lies and double game of a band of corrupted politicians (most of them are already millionaires or very rich), receiving millions of dollars from Washington (which would be illegal in many countries!), one must really believe anything. I guess that's all.

[cryptohoarders]

STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE!

[happyminer1]

Update on the (non-existing) huge sales success of the petro

Update on my update:

5.3.

Maduro declares that Venezuela is completing the protocol of 30 days of presale. The number of certified offers of intention to buy went up to 186.306. Again he doesn’t say how much was offered through these certified offers. 0,3% of the offers were in yuan. The offers were certified by a Russian company which uses the most advanced technological platform of the world. (Zeus? What technology would that be?)

http://ciudadmcy.info.ve/?p=29564
https://mundo.sputniknews.com/americalatina/201803061076781051-caracas-moneda-virtual/

[STT]

What makes you believe that somebody buying petro options with this contract will receive a discount of 40%?

Sorry 30% (not 40%), my mistake.

From the White Paper (page 21):
This first lot, which will be placed in the Pre-Sale, will have a volume of 3,400,000 Petro and will have a 30% discount on the reference price of crude oil in the Venezuelan basket. The following lots will have 5,000,000 Petro and the discount will decrease successively for each lot sold, until the last lot, of 24,000,000 Petro, which will have no discount.

1) So even a speculator might find it best to take part in a secondary market rather then directly.  

2) I believe most markets are set by the largest parties involved.  Thats why Im surprised its not possible to just buy oil with these tokens and then surely there is an immediate demand and it helps create an order book useful by business?

3) Free markets always set a price, I dont believe its possible to force a price as there is always an arbitrage effect that occurs.

1) Why? If they sell you Petros with a 40% discount on the oil barrel, and you are a speculator, you definitely want to buy (and that's why there were 170 thousand offers).

2) No, IT IS POSSIBLE to buy oil with Petros, this is the main reason of it! The national oil company PDVSA will accept Petros obviously (that's totally confirmed, and probably also other cryptos!).

3) Sure, Petro will be traded in the secondary market and obviously the market will decide its price. But depending on the exchange mechanism the government will offer, its price base could actually be the oil barrel (about 60$ at the moment).

I see this discount will create a great incentive to be involved and buy the oil using Petro.  So encouraging adoption.    Of course this is arbitrage effect, a discount allowing the purchase of oil at a lower price.     Every ICO type setup does this discount to start participation and assure the community of a regular market so thats normal.

I was just arguing long term the market will set its own price by repeating these trades as it finds the oil in Venezuela cheaper relative to the market overall.   How much of a discount the market wants in order to take market in Petro purchases we will have to wait and see.  
Its possible long term the market will just keep on demanding a 30% discount in order to continue volume.   That does seem a large amount but the point is nobody can force a price, its upto Petro to be easy to use and a reliable market.   If it works out the discount will shorten so the oil supplied is paid at a higher price.  

  However it does require that oil can be supplied at this 30% discount to global oil prices.   So this is a strain on Venezuela margins and requires great efficiency from them for a success.   If they can take this strain, then maybe volume of production and sales can rise and margin discount lowers to Venezuela's benefit.
   I guess all Petro has to do in order to be a success to the Venezuela regime is provide higher liquidity with lower costs then the US dollar and sanctions are imposing.  I would guess it will still be some burden and either way Venezuela oil industry has to improve its efficiency of production to do well long term.  Crypto cant alter the situation on the ground, Saudi Arabia still has the lowest costs to production even if Venezuela has the highest proven reserves in the world.    Reserves and financially viable production are sometimes two points nowhere near each other unfortunately.

Every successful economy relies on its efficiency vs its competitors.   I see that Petro might alleviate some of the Dollar problem for Venezuela but it cant change the requirement for better business Venezuela has nationally.  I dont know how much of a discount they were already having to provide in dollar terms.
The lower oil price worldwide has put many regimes under strain, its arguably an ongoing 'tightening' effect and oil itself must compete against other viable energy options which have improved drastically such as solar power for example.   

[taseenb]

I think this project seems a lot unclear to many investors. Changing laws, erc-20 then to Nem.

Actually the western media made the project unclear (and there are many dirty political reasons and bias why this massive FUD happens). The 2 documents and the process has been pretty straightforward since the beginning.

The Petro will be based on Ethereum (ERC20) but the ICO will provide tokens on the NEM blockchain, that will be exchangeable in Petros once the network is launched. That's it.

[happyminer1]

If they can take this strain, then maybe volume of production and sales can rise and margin discount lowers to Venezuela's benefit.

This is quite unlikely. IEA, Barclays expect Venezuelan oil production to go down further. To around 1.35 million b/d in the second half of 2018 and than down to 1.1 million b/d.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/How-Far-Can-Venezuelas-Oil-Production-Fall.html

http://www.economiahoy.mx/internacional-eAm-mexico/noticias/8982130/03/18/La-crisis-en-Venezuela-destruye-su-tesoro-nacional-la-produccion-de-petroleo-caera-a-niveles-de-1940.html

[happyminer1]

I think this project seems a lot unclear to many investors. Changing laws, erc-20 then to Nem.

Actually the western media made the project unclear (and there are many dirty political reasons and bias why this massive FUD happens). The 2 documents and the process has been pretty straightforward since the beginning.

So it's the problem of the western media that only after the official launch the information in the white paper was changed from:

The Pre-sale will start on February 20,2018 and will consist of the creation and sale of an ERC20 token on the blockchain Ethereum platform.

To:

The Pre-sale will start on February 20,2018 and will consist of the creation and sale of smart-asset on the NEM blockchain platform.

The Petro will be based on Ethereum (ERC20) but the ICO will provide tokens on the NEM blockchain, that will be exchangeable in Petros once the network is launched. That's it.

Maybe. But how do you know? That's what the white paper says:

Prior to the Initial Offer, the 100 million (100,000,000) cryptoassets of the issue will be pre-mined in the Petro blocks chain. The Petro NEM blockchain token will have Petro from its own blockchain reserved to be exchanged when decided by its holders.

[taseenb]

No. Since the 20th February it has always been the same:

- The Petro will be an Ethereum token
- The ICO will sell NEM tokens that will be exchangeable when the Petro will be ready

The White Paper refers to a beta (obviously this project is very recent, announced in Dec 2017, and it's being developed in record times), so it would be normal if there are important changes.
But it hasn't changed since the pre-sale launch. It might change in the future though.

Simple: stay tuned.

[happyminer1]

No. Since the 20th February it has always been the same:

That's not true. I have the different versions of the white paper.

- The Petro will be an Ethereum token

Again: How do you know?

[sonnycrockett]

The amount of political propaganda spewed by taseenb and coinve is next level.

They're obviously puppets working for the dictatorship there. I'd just love to know how close their offices are to Maduro's in the Palacio de Miraflores.

The Petro is the biggest amateur hour in crypto. So embarrassing on so many technical, organizational and execution levels. Even these puppets have said that the Petro is something invented in record time, as if that's a good thing, when it's clearly not in the crypto space where things need to be well thought out and transparent. Clearly the Petro is just another way for Venezuela to try to bring in foreign currencies to bankroll the dictatorship for a little longer, while claiming left and right that the western media is out to get them and blah blah blah.

Really sad stuff going on in that country right now.

[taseenb]

No. Since the 20th February it has always been the same:

That's not true. I have the different versions of the white paper.

Yes, you are right. The White Paper has changed once since the 20th February.

And it was the update I already mentioned: the ICO token will be based on the NEM blockchain (which is confirmed so farr). NEM tokens will be exchangeable for Petros (presumably Ethereum ERC20, but this is not explicit in the new White Paper).

As I said earlier, this project was announced in December 2017, it's extremely young. Things can change, the Petro is under development as we discuss here, but so far we haven't had any major change since the 20th of February. So the only thing to do is: stay tuned!

[taseenb]

[NEWS] As of today the offers are as follow (according to a statement from Maduro on 5th March):

Total offers: 186.306 (from 127 countries)

41% dollars
34% Bitcoin
17.9% Ethereum
6.5% euros
0.3 yuans

It's interesting that more than 50% of the offers are in crypto. This would make Venezuela the largest (known) crypto State reserve in the world.

[taseenb]

I read a lot of confusion (and even ignorant or hysterical insults) about Venezuela and South America: this is normal, the narrative on Venezuela has been built in years of propaganda.
For those who are interested in this US aggression against Venezuela (same as Iran and Russia), its reasons and features, this documentary directed by Colombian journalist Hernando Calvo Ospina ( @hcalvoospina ), only 38 min. but contains a lot of information:

Venezuela, the hidden agenda
https://youtu.be/f1zl-k6QQj0

This is very helpful to understand the context of the Petro and some of the propaganda constructs: the media aggression, the US sanctions, the threats, why so much hate and hysteria around it? The name of Petro is no coincidence.

[asdlolciterquit]

[NEWS] As of today the offers are as follow (according to a statement from Maduro on 5th March):

Total offers: 186.306 (from 127 countries)

41% dollars
34% Bitcoin
17.9% Ethereum
6.5% euros
0.3 yuans

It's interesting that more than 50% of the offers are in crypto. This would make Venezuela the largest (known) crypto State reserve in the world.

186.306 of what? petro? if i remenber well 1 petro is 19$, so more that 3.5 million dollars has been raised!

Is this statement official? can you link it?

[taseenb]

186.306 of what? petro? if i remenber well 1 petro is 19$, so more that 3.5 million dollars has been raised!

No, 186.306 are just offers you can make on the Petro pre-sale page, without paying (you cannot buy Petros yet, need to wait at least until 20th March, beginning of public ICO). So it's likely that real payments will be lower.
The price of 1 Petro is about $60 USD (Venezuelan oil barrel price - the official price is in the Ministry of Petroleum web page). But there are discounts during the pre-sale and ICO. The total value of the offers is still unknown, but last government statements say it's around 3-4 Billion USD (again, this comes from offers, not real payments). In any case the ICO will be open until all coins (82.000.000) are sold.

Why the pre-sale offers? Because if you make an early offer you can get big discounts, up to 30% on the oil barrel price (only a small part though, see white paper).

Maduro statement on Petro offers (SPANISH): https://www.americaeconomia.com/economia-mercados/finanzas/criptomoneda-venezolana-petro-suma-mas-de-186000-ofertas-de-compras

Official Venezuelan oil barrel price (in YUAN, see bottom of the table for conversion rates): http://www.mpetromin.gob.ve/portalmenpet/secciones.php?option=view&idS=45

[happyminer1]

186.306 of what? petro? if i remenber well 1 petro is 19$, so more that 3.5 million dollars has been raised!

Why the pre-sale offers? Because if you make an early offer you can get big discounts, up to 30% on the oil barrel price (only a small part though, see white paper).

There is no guarantee whatsoever that you will get a 30% - or any - discount by making a pre-sale offer.