[PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela

[taseenb]

Why is a private company commentating and not the UN, I thought they were stated as observers.   Its obviously not a point in favour but even with zero evidence its quite obvious elections are false when the numbers give no semblance of opposition existing.  

Better rely on facts. The opposition always participated in elections with several parties and all the candidates they wanted, apart from the election of the 31st July 2017 to elect the Constituent Assembly that they decided to boycott. They had decided to take the streets months before and started extremely violent riots with fire guns, molotovs, home-made bazookas and bombs that led to 176 deaths. Most were victims of opposition gangs, not police. On election day opposition gangs killed 2 candidates and 6 other people died (so you imagine the "democratic" climate they had created), they destroyed about 200 voting centres and threatened tens of thousands of people who wanted to vote. Despite all these efforts, 8 million people voted anyway, mostly because the violence of the opposition was unsustainable, and not necessarily because they were happy with the economic situation. The "private company" claimed they were 1 million less, like this, based on zero evidence. And even if it were true (which isn't) nothing would have changed. But it was great for the headlines: fraud!

FACT: The US have NEVER accepted any democratic electoral result in Venezuela after 1998, unless the opposition won.

The consequences of the boycott? The opposition brainwashed their electorate so much with the boycott and the "take the streets to overthrow the dictatorship" that now many don't want to vote anymore and only expect... what? Terrorism? Coup? Who are the democrats, who is the dictator, who respect the law? Ask them.

Needless to say that the government organised peace talks forever, with the mediation of former Spanish President Zapatero and others. Government and opposition met for months to find deals on many subjects but mostly on the upcoming Presidential elections. The government agreed to apply all the guarantees the opposition asked (nothing special, mostly making it easy for Venezuelans in Miami to vote and the date). And when they were ready to sign, with all the agreed conditions (a couple of months ago), the opposition decided to withdraw, under obvious US order.

Anyway people in the opposition participated anyway in the 2 local elections for governors and mayors held in 2017. Now again, for the presidentials, part of the opposition decided to boycott but others already presented a Presidential candidate: Henri Falcon.

[taseenb]

This does seem very reasonable talk through of why NEM might be superior to ETH as a backbone.   If Petro did take off then ETH really doesnt have the spare capacity to take a national currency being used to any wide extent ?

Ethereum will likely need an effort like Bitcoin's Lightning Network and Segwit or it will have growth problems in the future.

Anyway @AbrahanDLP, Treasurer of crypto assets of Venezuela, tweeted yesterday (translated into English): "The Petro blockchain will use NEM technology. The current version of NEM can make 1000 transactions per second. The new one, Catapult, developed in C++, will process up to 4000 transactions."

[taseenb]

Where as any normal free country has people calling the leader an idiot constantly and are usually right :p

By that standard, Venezuela must be a beacon of freedom in the universe. President Maduro gets heavily insulted day and night on Venezuelan TVs, newspapers and social media. He's been victim of a media-orchestrated "character assassination" for years (since elected in 2013). On international media he even gets openly threatened with his life.

I don't think this is a sign of freedom, but of an unbalanced and corrupted economic (and information) system.

All private TVs in Venezuela belong to the opposition, and most newspapers. Opposition leaders and most important sponsors also happen to be the richest (and whitest) people in the country.

Wonder why they keep losing elections despite all the money and power? This is the Venezuela you never see on US or European media. That was 19th April 2017, but i could post thousands of photos like these about endless chavistas peaceful and cheerful events around the country, totally silenced by international media.

https://i.imgur.com/Zf75K5L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y9VZ8Ez.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/u8uwOml.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Wanpybs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4QGh58w.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/F9FvDAG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yzH3w4P.jpg

Notice the average skin colour. The more chavistas the darker (or diverse) skin colour: the most unrepresented people on the media.
They show signs calling for: PEACE, NO TERRORISM, NO VIOLENCE.

These are the supporters of the supposed "dictatorship"... threatening!

[cryptoviagra]

did you order some petros mate? did you receive a refferal code that u can use for the status link on the website? what do you think about the wallet?

[taseenb]

did you order some petros mate? did you receive a refferal code that u can use for the status link on the website? what do you think about the wallet?

Not yet but I will do it asap (or when possible) and report here my comments/experience.

[coinve]

The petro wallets finally have arrived.

What's the Petro wallet? Right: The Nano Wallet v2.1.2 with a different branding.

nem nano wallet license: https://github.com/NemProject/NanoWallet/blob/2.0/LICENSE

The MIT License (MIT)
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all
copies or substantial portions of the Software.

¿do you have any problem with that?
send a message to the NEM foundation, so they can close their software, haha!!

[coinve]

taseenb, you should write a FAQ.
and you have a better english than me anyway.

------

What happens if the Venezuelan government goes into bankruptcy? Will the so backed oil be accessible?

bankruptcy with oil, gas, gold, diamond, silver, coltan, iron, coal, thorium, titanium...? lmao.
i think a war in Venezuela is the only way that a bankruptcy could happen.
but that will stop the petrocoin continue working?

There won't be any place soon to spend your petros.

in the meantime, you can sell your petrocoins in a exchange for other cryptocoins or fiat money that you can spend.
it's the same with other cryptocoins, nothing new here, next.

And I expect nobody of us will go to Venezuela for shopping at goverment regualated food stores or paying taxes there.

it's not necessary to go to Venezuela to spend your petrocoins, that's ridiculous, read the previous answer.

So if it's backed by real oil, I don't believe they have 100 millions barrels of oil standing around ready if someone wants to change his tokens into real value.
And out in a underdeveloped oil field it's worth nothing.

Petrocoin is backed by one small oil field with +5 billion barrels of oil certified, that's 50 times more than the total of petrocoins.
Venezuela has more oil fields than that with a total of +300 billion barrels of oil certified.
if the venezuelan oil worth nothing, Why the U.S. government want it so much?
if you bought petrocoins and don't want them anymore, no problem, sell your petrocoins in a exchange, i'm sure someone will love to buy them.
if the petrocoin crash, the venezuelan goverment will return each petrocoin you have the value of a venezuelan barrel of oil in the international market using fiat money or other cryptocoins.
that's how a "commodity-backed currency" works.
that's why the venezuelan government is creating a "Treasure of crypto assets of Venezuela"

Enjoy and have a good laugh, just don't invest a penny...

if you don't like petrocoin, don't buy it, it's simple.

[STT]

if the petrocoin crash, the venezuelan goverment will return each petrocoin you have the value of a Venezuelan barrel of oil in the international market using fiat money or other cryptocoins.

That would be a big deal if true.    Almost every crypto currency gets sold off at some point though its usually because 'miners' must pay their bills so sell to market.  Here the biggest holders will just be buyers that occurred during the ICO process.    I dont know if the government will attempt to pay various bills using Petro instead of Bolivar  internationally.

bankruptcy with oil, gas, gold, diamond, silver, coltan, iron, coal, thorium, titanium...? lmao.

Its possible for bankruptcy to occur with a great many assets.   Especially if the assets require investment to extract.   The Lehmens Brothers bankruptcy is still dealing with various assets and very slowly paying back creditors still, I believe its still an active company in theory but is very much not the active or correctly working operation it was in decades previous.

That would relate to insolvency perhaps, its true the assets of Venezuela are great.   There is also the massive challenge of efficent extraction.   Every oil investor world wide knows finding oil is not the end story, it can be costly to extract and in some cases the oil can never be removed without costs exceeding possible profits and is left in ground.   This is a common scenario.
[A simple technique might be water injection into the oil field, pressure rises and later the oil and water separate above ground.   Or famously fracking is a big innovation allowing easier extraction.   It would be good to hear of some investment like this in prospect]

Companies I know of where this occurred was RDSB where it sold a 'dead' asset to CNE at a lower rate.  RDSB could not extract the oil but CNE created some innovative technique and was able to profitably extract the oil.  This oil is within Indian national borders where they lack much of a resource so it was a great sucess for them to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKaCeOznZds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoqcTaWg4Kk

I mention that example as its possible Venezuela needs alot of innovation and clever people/companies to profitably extract their oil.   This money for the ICO should really be invested into that process and it would be very much a justified project.    The fear of the more bearish commentators here is that the money received during ICO will merely be used for petty expenses and the ongoing problem of removing oil from the ground without large costs will remain and the possibility for an effective insolvency even while asset rich might occur.

[coinve]

STT
- Lehman Brothers is a country?
- Do you know how many foreign oil companies and which ones are right now extracting oil in Venezuela?

[STT]

I state Lehmans just because from a layman's view, it was one of the largest bankruptcys ever so probably does relate to a global economy in some way.   A great many parts of Lehmans were profitable and highly valued assets many continue on today.  Similarly Venezuela has many jewels to its credit, I think the people should always be placed as the most valuable resource in a country personally but in plain assets nobody should dispute the great wealth of Venezuela.
  The revenue of Lehmans was 19 billion apparently and that is on a similar scale to recent Venezuela oil revenue estimates.   There is other business done but its mostly the prospect of oil that pays government bills I think hence the name of this crypto token.

https://i.imgur.com/o6uOesqg.png
https://i.imgur.com/woaSlM9.jpg

Do you know how many foreign oil companies and which ones are right now extracting oil in Venezuela?

A great many and with a rising number I hope.   I think open investment is the best chance of raising oil production as needed.  The best use of crypto anywhere is in supplying capital where its most needed.  I have also read troubles of company assets being forcibly seized which is unfortunate for any private enterprise and discourages large scale investment which might be required.  Without investment and without a perfect case scenario of easy extraction, oil barrels per day produced profitably with a lower overall global market price naturally falls.

As one of the worlds largest resources, Venezuela faces the problem that as it increases production it also probably sees a lower price per barrel.  So there is the constant throttle of efficiency which must be achieved together with any oil production, I personally think private enterprise achieves this efficiency best perhaps with government oversight.   Crypto is all private innovation made available to world markets to utilise, there must be technology world wide that could be used in Venezuela and is not being currently employed to its best use.   A free enterprise zone would be a good idea to kickstart areas of growth in Venezula, free from the usual restrictions that might occur.

[coinve]

STT
seriously??
SERiOUSLY BRO?

Venezuela has an oil reserve of +300 billion barrels of oil certified.
that's the first reserve of oil in the world.
source wikipedia

Venezuela certified recently +1500 tons of gold reserve.
but they said it could be more than that, they are talking about +8900 tons of gold reserve.
Venezuela could become the second reserve of gold in the world.
news in spanish

“Hasta el momento, tenemos certificadas 1500 toneladas de oro en el Arco Minero del Orinoco, pero si llegáramos a certificar todas las zonas, tendríamos más de 8900 toneladas de oro; eso nos convertiría en el segundo país con más reservas de oro en el mundo”, dijo el ministro Victor Cano.

petrocoin backed, done, next.

if you don't like petrocoin, don't buy, it's simple.

[cryptoviagra]

https://www.coindesk.com/us-lawmaker-presses-treasury-department-on-venezuelas-petro-sale/


The USA acting up once again, potentially loosing billions of dollars + dollars value with Petro I feel like they are trying to justify a maybe futur invasion in Venezuela just like in Irak (Sadam hussein) and Libya (Muammar Khadafi)...

[happyminer1]

Why is a private company commentating and not the UN, I thought they were stated as observers.

The private company is commentating because they were responsible for the electronic voting system and they didn't want to get blamed for the fraud. If you read there statement you will see that they carefully try to explain why and how a fraud can happen even with a electronic voting system like theirs.

https://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-statement-on-the-recent-constituent-assembly-election-in-venezuela/

There were no observers from the UN, OAS, EU, the Carter Center ... but only a selected bunch of people sympathetic with the regime. (No, no hundreds of international observers.)

[SeksiStarlord]

Lol Petro is no oil backed cryptocurrency, its a big shitcoin launched by venezuela. I honestly would not touch it, there are plenty other coins or tokens which are a bigger investment opportunity. The fundamentals here are not given for me, please try to convince me if you think I am wrong.

[happyminer1]

Why is a private company commentating and not the UN, I thought they were stated as observers.   Its obviously not a point in favour but even with zero evidence its quite obvious elections are false when the numbers give no semblance of opposition existing.  

Better rely on facts.

Yes, on facts. Not your compilations of government propaganda. Your tactic: Instead of exchanging arguments on the topic at hand you start long rants with additional unsubstantiated claims. I so far tried to back up my claims, but that's no help against your propaganda tactic.

They had decided to take the streets months before and started extremely violent riots with fire guns, molotovs, home-made bazookas and bombs that led to 176 deaths. Most were victims of opposition gangs, not police.

This is the story of the government propaganda. Opposition demonstrations started peacefully, but were violently suppressed. Independent observers agree that there was excessive use of force against protests:

Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained. There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/venezuela/

The "private company" claimed they were 1 million less, like this, based on zero evidence.

They have the evidence. As many whistle blowers they don't share it with the general public.

Government and opposition met for months to find deals on many subjects but mostly on the upcoming Presidential elections. The government agreed to apply all the guarantees the opposition asked (nothing special, mostly making it easy for Venezuelans in Miami to vote and the date).

If you compare the proposal of the opposition with the one signed by the government you will see that there are many things the opposition (reasonably) asked for which were not accepted by the government.

And when they were ready to sign, with all the agreed conditions (a couple of months ago), the opposition decided to withdraw, under obvious US order.

Pure left wing conspiracy theory without any basis in facts.

[coinve]

happyminer, nobody is reading your boring and long offtopic.
your comments won't stop petro (ptr).

Lol Petro is no oil backed cryptocurrency, its a big shitcoin launched by venezuela. I honestly would not touch it, there are plenty other coins or tokens which are a bigger investment opportunity. The fundamentals here are not given for me, please try to convince me if you think I am wrong.

if you don't like it, don't buy it, it's simple.
nobody will try to convince you, nobody cares.
your comments won't stop petro (ptr).

[happyminer1]

The petro wallets finally have arrived.

What's the Petro wallet? Right: The Nano Wallet v2.1.2 with a different branding.

nem nano wallet license: https://github.com/NemProject/NanoWallet/blob/2.0/LICENSE

¿do you have any problem with that?
send a message to the NEM foundation, so they can close their software, haha!!

No legal problem at this point. It's just an indication of the level of technical competence.

[cryptoviagra]

Lol Petro is no oil backed cryptocurrency, its a big shitcoin launched by venezuela. I honestly would not touch it, there are plenty other coins or tokens which are a bigger investment opportunity. The fundamentals here are not given for me, please try to convince me if you think I am wrong.

Mate stick to BTG from $400 to $62....I see you comment alot on this topic but only negative thngs lol...why you here? probably FOMO!!!

[happyminer1]

if the petrocoin crash, the venezuelan goverment will return each petrocoin you have the value of a Venezuelan barrel of oil in the international market using fiat money or other cryptocoins.

That would be a big deal if true.

But it isn't. If you read through the official documents (presidential decrees, white paper, contract, as I did) you will see there is no mention at all of such a promise.

bankruptcy with oil, gas, gold, diamond, silver, coltan, iron, coal, thorium, titanium...? lmao.

Its possible for bankruptcy to occur with a great many assets.   Especially if the assets require investment to extract.   The Lehmens Brothers bankruptcy is still dealing with various assets and very slowly paying back creditors still, I believe its still an active company in theory but is very much not the active or correctly working operation it was in decades previous.

That would relate to insolvency perhaps, its true the assets of Venezuela are great.   There is also the massive challenge of efficent extraction.   Every oil investor world wide knows finding oil is not the end story, it can be costly to extract and in some cases the oil can never be removed without costs exceeding possible profits and is left in ground.   This is a common scenario.

You are correct: A country can become insolvent and default on its debts even if it has huge natural assets. And natural assets are of not much value as long they are not extracted.

[taseenb]

The "private company" claimed they were 1 million less, like this, based on zero evidence.

They have the evidence. As many whistle blowers they don't share it with the general public.

This is the one of the most ridiculous things you've written so far, it proves you have no idea what you're talking about. "Whistle blowers" publish evidence of wrongdoing: it's the definition of whistle blower. They had no access to the data, therefore they had no evidence of anything (and obviously never showed any).

Sorry man, your arguments are always more desperate.