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Author Topic: Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price?  (Read 16574 times)
FNG
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September 26, 2013, 10:46:01 AM
 #41

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.
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September 26, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
 #42

Time will tell wrt to price, but rest assured this is very definitely a good thing for bitcoin. Can't put it any better than Herp.
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September 26, 2013, 11:05:13 AM
 #43

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.

Of course. Market cap of whole bitcoin market is peanuts really. Merely $1.5billion. Lots of lame no one gives a shit corpos listed on Nasdaq have much higher market cap.

Facebook has $120 billion market cap, Twitter probably half of that. Secondmarket offered early access to investors in both Facebook and Twitter.

So imagine what would few billions, which is nothing on Wall Street, mean to the Bitcoin price.

Keep in mind this fund is featured on Secondmarket, being their top investment opportunity at the moment. They even have a special Bitcoin tutorial section on their website.

This guy is a major Secondmarket shareholder and board director http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2011/11/02/secondmarket-valued-at-200-million-after-investment-by-former-facebook-exec/ and one of the guys calling the shots. Guy is super hyped when it comes to Bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJW1stK-NRI


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FNG
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September 26, 2013, 11:11:47 AM
 #44

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.

Of course. Market cap of whole bitcoin market is peanuts really. Merely $1.5billion. Lots of lame no one gives a shit corpos listed on Nasdaq have much higher market cap. Facebook has $120 billion market cap, Twitter probably half of that. Secondmarket offered early access to investors in both Facebook and Twitter.

So imagine what would few billions, which is nothing on Wall Street, mean to the Bitcoin price.

Keep in mind this fund is featured on Secondmarket, being their top investment opportunity at the moment. They even have a special Bitcoin tutorial section on their website.

This guy is a major Secondmarket shareholder and board director http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2011/11/02/secondmarket-valued-at-200-million-after-investment-by-former-facebook-exec/ and one of the guys calling the shots. Guy is super hyped when it comes to Bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJW1stK-NRI
Exactly. People trying to downplay this must not be doing basic math. Less than $15million worth of bitcoins are currently on Gox / Bitstamp combined. Sure more coins will come out at higher prices but this is a drop in the bucket to the investors secondmarket is targeting.

Should be fun to watch.
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September 26, 2013, 11:17:32 AM
 #45

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.

Of course. Market cap of whole bitcoin market is peanuts really. Merely $1.5billion. Lots of lame no one gives a shit corpos listed on Nasdaq have much higher market cap. Facebook has $120 billion market cap, Twitter probably half of that. Secondmarket offered early access to investors in both Facebook and Twitter.

So imagine what would few billions, which is nothing on Wall Street, mean to the Bitcoin price.

Keep in mind this fund is featured on Secondmarket, being their top investment opportunity at the moment. They even have a special Bitcoin tutorial section on their website.

This guy is a major Secondmarket shareholder and board director http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2011/11/02/secondmarket-valued-at-200-million-after-investment-by-former-facebook-exec/ and one of the guys calling the shots. Guy is super hyped when it comes to Bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJW1stK-NRI
Exactly. People trying to downplay this must not be doing basic math. Less than $15million worth of bitcoins are currently on Gox / Bitstamp combined. Sure more coins will come out at higher prices but this is a drop in the bucket to the investors secondmarket is targeting.

Should be fun to watch.

Angry Birds maker Rovio has a market cap of around $6-7 billion ffs Smiley People need to put this in context a bit. This is f... Angry birds we're talking about not a revolutionary payment system and store of value that can revolutionize the world. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141123/Angry-Birds-creators-float-stock-market-5-5-BILLION-puzzle-game-hits-200-million-users-month.html


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September 26, 2013, 11:19:08 AM
 #46

The big news is that secondmarket has launched "Bitcoin Investment Trust"   http://www.bitcointrust.co/    also see https://www.secondmarket.com/education/learn/bitcoin-education-center

Quote

The Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT) is a private, open-ended trust that is invested exclusively in bitcoin and derives its value solely from the price of bitcoin. It enables investors to gain exposure to the price movement of bitcoin without the challenges of buying, storing, and safekeeping bitcoins.


So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

I don't think in and of itself it will affect the price much. It's great news, but probably more important to other institutions considering bitcoin then the price of bitcoin itself. The last big bubble seemed more like a large number of small individual investors getting into bitcoin and wildly driving the price up. Bigger investors are more thoughtful investors and have no interest in running the price up before they get the amount of coins they want/need. Also individual investors are probably still mostly on the sidelines.

So I think no, it won't affect the price much, but I think it's a great sign and it will multiply the effect of success later down the line.

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September 26, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
 #47

This is great news. It's like the ETF but it doesn't take years to be approved. When will trading commence?

Herp
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September 26, 2013, 11:27:36 AM
 #48

The big news is that secondmarket has launched "Bitcoin Investment Trust"   http://www.bitcointrust.co/    also see https://www.secondmarket.com/education/learn/bitcoin-education-center

Quote

The Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT) is a private, open-ended trust that is invested exclusively in bitcoin and derives its value solely from the price of bitcoin. It enables investors to gain exposure to the price movement of bitcoin without the challenges of buying, storing, and safekeeping bitcoins.


So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

I don't think in and of itself it will affect the price much. It's great news, but probably more important to other institutions considering bitcoin then the price of bitcoin itself. The last big bubble seemed more like a large number of small individual investors getting into bitcoin and wildly driving the price up. Bigger investors are more thoughtful investors and have no interest in running the price up before they get the amount of coins they want/need. Also individual investors are probably still mostly on the sidelines.

So I think no, it won't affect the price much, but I think it's a great sign and it will multiply the effect of success later down the line.

Can't find the words to reply to this post. This will do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yqUpypQwGs


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crazy_rabbit
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September 26, 2013, 11:57:09 AM
 #49

The big news is that secondmarket has launched "Bitcoin Investment Trust"   http://www.bitcointrust.co/    also see https://www.secondmarket.com/education/learn/bitcoin-education-center

Quote

The Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT) is a private, open-ended trust that is invested exclusively in bitcoin and derives its value solely from the price of bitcoin. It enables investors to gain exposure to the price movement of bitcoin without the challenges of buying, storing, and safekeeping bitcoins.


So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

I don't think in and of itself it will affect the price much. It's great news, but probably more important to other institutions considering bitcoin then the price of bitcoin itself. The last big bubble seemed more like a large number of small individual investors getting into bitcoin and wildly driving the price up. Bigger investors are more thoughtful investors and have no interest in running the price up before they get the amount of coins they want/need. Also individual investors are probably still mostly on the sidelines.

So I think no, it won't affect the price much, but I think it's a great sign and it will multiply the effect of success later down the line.

Can't find the words to reply to this post. This will do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yqUpypQwGs

ha. ha. Luckily, if I'm wrong, I make more money. Can't beat them odds.

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September 26, 2013, 12:03:24 PM
 #50


Angry Birds maker Rovio has a market cap of around $6-7 billion ffs Smiley People need to put this in context a bit. This is f... Angry birds we're talking about not a revolutionary payment system and store of value that can revolutionize the world.  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141123/Angry-Birds-creators-float-stock-market-5-5-BILLION-puzzle-game-hits-200-million-users-month.html
[/quote]


angry birds is bigger than bitcoin ? Shocked

-what if angry birds gets outlawed, regulated ?
-is angry bird really anoymous ?
-will there ever be more than 21 mill angry birds ?
-only criminals are using angry birds for drugs, money laundering, etc.
-angry birds must be a ponzi scheme
-my grandma will never play angry birds
-what is the intrinsic value of an angry bird ?
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September 26, 2013, 12:22:55 PM
 #51

They will first sell their own holdings, when sold out, they have to purchase from the exchanges (it seems that they have their own mining farm)

FNG
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September 26, 2013, 12:39:24 PM
 #52

Headline for NY Times morning agenda   http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/morning-agenda-a-fund-for-bitcoins/

This news is everywhere
Herp
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September 26, 2013, 12:58:59 PM
 #53

Headline for NY Times morning agenda   http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/morning-agenda-a-fund-for-bitcoins/

This news is everywhere

Yes, of course it's everywhere. Secondmarket is like the Nasdaq of private companies and this BIT (Bitcoin Investment Trust) is their featured top offering and they advertise it as such.


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MoreFun
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September 26, 2013, 01:01:54 PM
 #54

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.

Of course. Market cap of whole bitcoin market is peanuts really. Merely $1.5billion. Lots of lame no one gives a shit corpos listed on Nasdaq have much higher market cap.

Facebook has $120 billion market cap, Twitter probably half of that. Secondmarket offered early access to investors in both Facebook and Twitter.

So imagine what would few billions, which is nothing on Wall Street, mean to the Bitcoin price.

Keep in mind this fund is featured on Secondmarket, being their top investment opportunity at the moment. They even have a special Bitcoin tutorial section on their website.

This guy is a major Secondmarket shareholder and board director http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2011/11/02/secondmarket-valued-at-200-million-after-investment-by-former-facebook-exec/ and one of the guys calling the shots. Guy is super hyped when it comes to Bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJW1stK-NRI

Your posts here looks like you try really hard to convience others that the price will skyrocket. Are you one of the second market guys or you just loaded yourself with coins?

Anyway, twitter is nowhere around half of FB. Around $10b in reality.

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September 26, 2013, 01:15:54 PM
 #55


Quote
Angry Birds maker Rovio has a market cap of around $6-7 billion ffs Smiley People need to put this in context a bit. This is f... Angry birds we're talking about not a revolutionary payment system and store of value that can revolutionize the world.  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141123/Angry-Birds-creators-float-stock-market-5-5-BILLION-puzzle-game-hits-200-million-users-month.html


angry birds is bigger than bitcoin ? Shocked

-what if angry birds gets outlawed, regulated ?
-is angry bird really anoymous ?
-will there ever be more than 21 mill angry birds ?
-only criminals are using angry birds for drugs, money laundering, etc.
-angry birds must be a ponzi scheme
-my grandma will never play angry birds
-what is the intrinsic value of an angry bird ?

Yeah, imagine that fu... Angry birds. Rovio is basically a one product company. They've released some pig game but Angry birds is by far the main and most important franchise.

Don't you guys think Bitcoin deserves at least half of Angry birds market cap, which would be somewhere around $3.5 billion ?Smiley

Most people don't look at the numbers and just assume big price increases can't happen in short time frame but it most certainly can and most certainly will. People wanna play it safe not risking looking like idiots for going overboard or fear of ridicule and just throw around useless "conservative" estimates. But it's the exact same mindset that prevents most people from spotting good opportunities, fearing ridicule and what others may say. Most Wall Street analysts fall into this very pattern, raising price targets after stocks already exceeded their previous price target. It's much easier to be wrong when whole pack is wrong than being wrong when everyone was right, so why risk it.


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Herp
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September 26, 2013, 01:25:48 PM
 #56

I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

What is your definition of huge? They've sold $billions worth of securities..

The bitcoin market is extremely tight..if they are able to gather as little as $20 mil it will greatly affect the price.

Of course. Market cap of whole bitcoin market is peanuts really. Merely $1.5billion. Lots of lame no one gives a shit corpos listed on Nasdaq have much higher market cap.

Facebook has $120 billion market cap, Twitter probably half of that. Secondmarket offered early access to investors in both Facebook and Twitter.

So imagine what would few billions, which is nothing on Wall Street, mean to the Bitcoin price.

Keep in mind this fund is featured on Secondmarket, being their top investment opportunity at the moment. They even have a special Bitcoin tutorial section on their website.

This guy is a major Secondmarket shareholder and board director http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2011/11/02/secondmarket-valued-at-200-million-after-investment-by-former-facebook-exec/ and one of the guys calling the shots. Guy is super hyped when it comes to Bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJW1stK-NRI

Your posts here looks like you try really hard to convience others that the price will skyrocket. Are you one of the second market guys or you just loaded yourself with coins?

Anyway, twitter is nowhere around half of FB. Around $10b in reality.

It's merely a logical conclusion if you look at the facts and the data. I could argue same thing about people trying to downplay significance of this event using weak arguments or disinformation.

Twitter hasn't IPOed yet so we should perhaps revisit their valuation after it happens. Some speculate it's around $25 billion or so aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2013/09/twitter-announces-ipo-pricing-game.html

Quote
Just to round out the estimates, you could always apply the multiple of $130.32/user that investors are paying collectively for Linkedin and Facebook to Twitter's 240 million users (I have seen wildly varying estimates of this number with some estimates ranging up to 500 million) yields a price of close to $25 billion.  
Twitter's estimated market capitalization = $130.32 * 240 = $24.4 billion

Of course, a lot depends on the underwriter, how much they leave on the table, but I think it may end up much higher than the above figures.


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September 26, 2013, 01:30:36 PM
 #57

I would like to build a bit on what Herp said at the top of the page.

It is really important to understand that the accredited investors Second market deals with are probably not what most people imagine. If they are single investors, they are likely over the age of 75 and are of a completely different generation and mindset. For them, investing in the bitcoin space does not mean the same thing to them as it does to us. Many of them still use AOL for their internet, and barely understand email. I'm not joking. They are usually not very technically savvy at all. But they invest in concepts. They bought Apple or Microsoft because it was a new concept. They bought Amazon because it was a paradigm shift. They bought Facebook because it was a new way of doing things. But they never bought a computer, books from Amazon, or used Facebook. And they won't use bitcoins, nor do they have any interest in doing so. But they will invest in them, and invest on an order of hundreds of millions, simply because it is a game changer.

Trust funds are a different story. The guys running them are not all old-school. But they are often looking to fill a portion of their portfolios with some amount of high-risk high-return securities, and a bitcoin fund sounds pretty attractive in that space. No one wants to be running a fund and have zero exposure to the "next big thing". So I think there will be some decent inflows from trust funds.

Lastly, the mighty hedgies. Selling a high-tech basket requires you fill it with all of the good buzzwords that get your clients excited. You need "Cloud" stuff, and "virtual reality" stuff, and every other catchphrase you can. You want "Bitcoin" and "Cryptocurrency" in there too for certain. They will buy just for the words.


So honestly, I think this is a much bigger deal than anyone currently expects. The are billions of dollars sloshing around looking for a place to land that gives them a decent return in a ZIRP environment. Some of them will land here.
RationalSpeculator
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This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!


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September 26, 2013, 01:42:48 PM
 #58

The big news is that secondmarket has launched "Bitcoin Investment Trust"   http://www.bitcointrust.co/    also see https://www.secondmarket.com/education/learn/bitcoin-education-center

Quote

The Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT) is a private, open-ended trust that is invested exclusively in bitcoin and derives its value solely from the price of bitcoin. It enables investors to gain exposure to the price movement of bitcoin without the challenges of buying, storing, and safekeeping bitcoins.


So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?


This is how it works.

1. Price tenfolds when everyone thought it wouldn't happen anymore/yet.

2. After it happened ten times more people/businesses got interested and take baby steps but expect tenfolding to happen soon again.

3. go back to 1.


Where are we?
StarenseN
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September 26, 2013, 01:50:26 PM
 #59

No.

It has nothing to do with the price.

Next ?
Endgame
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September 26, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
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This is very significant news, and yes it will affect the price, both in the short term and overtime as accredited investors start taking their positions.
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