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Author Topic: Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price?  (Read 16572 times)
cypherdoc
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September 26, 2013, 05:48:11 PM
 #81

where the hell is the prospectus?
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Herp
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September 26, 2013, 05:55:57 PM
 #82


Quote
Initially, each BIT share will represent 0.1 bitcoins, but the trust will not generate any income and will regularly sell/distribute bitcoins to pay for on-going expenses, so the amount of bitcoin represented by each share will gradually decline over time.


Thank you captain Obvious. The trust has a maintenance fee it has to cover. So what's your point?

The trust will keep buying bitcoin and selling new shares along the way. The 17,800 bitcoins they currently have will sell like hotcakes in no time and they'll have to buy more Bitcoins to meet shareholder demand. Trust uses same model as the famous GLD ETF http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/.


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Herp
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September 26, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
 #83

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/


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cypherdoc
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September 26, 2013, 06:03:24 PM
 #84

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.
Herp
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September 26, 2013, 06:07:12 PM
 #85

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.


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cypherdoc
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September 26, 2013, 06:09:02 PM
 #86

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggests that it won't.
rolling
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September 26, 2013, 06:10:12 PM
 #87

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

You will have to re-read it then.  Each share represents .1 BTC (diluted by expenses). If they want to keep selling shares, they will have to keep buying coin.
StarenseN
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September 26, 2013, 06:12:43 PM
 #88

So it's clear now that it had no effect. Bitadam failed again isn't it ?
Herp
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September 26, 2013, 06:14:25 PM
 #89

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

So what you're saying is that a respectable platform like SecondMarket would mislead investors in such crude ugly fashion? You can't be serious. The trust will be audited regularly and will operate under SEC scrutiny. They will have to disclose all the bitcoin purchases in detail and show proof the bitcoins exist.


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rolling
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September 26, 2013, 06:15:50 PM
 #90

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

No it's a trust that holds bitcoin:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust
Quote
trust noun \ˈtrəst\
: belief that someone or something is reliable, good, honest, effective, etc.

: an arrangement in which someone's property or money is legally held or managed by someone else or by an organization (such as a bank) for usually a set period of time

: an organization that results from the creation of a trust
cypherdoc
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September 26, 2013, 06:18:00 PM
 #91

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

So what you're saying is that a respectable platform like SecondMarket would mislead investors in such crude ugly fashion? You can't be serious. The trust will be audited regularly and will operate under SEC scrutiny. They will have to disclose all the bitcoin purchases in detail and show proof the bitcoins exist.

maybe.  who knows.

simply point me to a reference that specifically says they will be purchasing additional BTC during the lifetime of the Trust.
Herp
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September 26, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
 #92

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote
"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a private fund".


Care to embarrass yourself some more?


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Herp
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September 26, 2013, 06:28:20 PM
 #93

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote
"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a provide fund".


Care to embarrass yourself some more?

Please embarrass me by explaining the difference between an ETF and a Trust.

An ETF, short for Exchange Trade Fund, is listed on a stock exchange. This one is a private fund. It's similar to GLD ETF in the way it operates except that it's private, not available to mom and pops.


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Herp
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September 26, 2013, 06:33:02 PM
 #94

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases.  but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote
"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a provide fund".


Care to embarrass yourself some more?

Please embarrass me by explaining the difference between an ETF and a Trust.

An ETF, short for Exchange Trade Fund, is listed on a stock exchange. This one is a private fund. It's similar to GLD ETF in the way it operates except that it's private, not available to mom and pops.

So they allow special people to trade in and out of the trust on their own private 'exchange' for special people.

If by special people you mean wealthy investors then answer is yes.


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Adrian-x
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September 26, 2013, 06:38:17 PM
 #95

So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

No! It will have little to no effect. Would you invest only to have your investment devalued by 2% each year and further pay a 1.5% to move in and out?

What may have an effect are the people who educate themselves about Bitcoin and the EFT, the resulting XBT demand could be visible in 6-8 weeks from now.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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September 26, 2013, 06:46:50 PM
 #96

IMO the new major investors into bitcoin are going to try to suppress the price on the exchanges.
That's if they aren't already doing it, but I haven't seen any signs yet.
They will buy coins directly from ASIC miners and early adopters, at a negociated price.
Since the negociated price will be somehow related to the price on the exchanges, the best tactic
would be to suppress the price (pump down with minimal costs), in order to get better direct deals.

Sometimes, if it looks too bullish, it's actually bearish
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September 26, 2013, 06:50:39 PM
 #97

I think I've made my poin... er, embarrassed myself enough. Wink

I think you should be embarrassed for misleading people.  The trust is really just holding Bitcoin for a fee.  In March 2014 they will allow investors to trade shares with each other but the size of the trust will only grow larger if they buy more Bitcoin. It's not a derivative investment. To say that they will not buy more Bitcoin once they sell all of the shares backed by the Bitcoin they already bought is wrong and by not admitting your fault, you are misleading readers of this thread, some of which might think you know what you're talking about.
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September 26, 2013, 06:57:30 PM
 #98

Please embarrass me by explaining the difference between an ETF and a Trust.

The SPDR Gold ETF is, in fact, a Trust. In fact, most (if not all) ETF's are Trusts. That just means that the issuer owns the underlying shares on behalf of the trusts unit holders (ie, shareholders).
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September 26, 2013, 06:57:55 PM
 #99

Read these: http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/second-market-second-act-sec-ruling.html

http://betabeat.com/2013/04/layoffs-at-secondmarket-barry-silbert/

They let you know what Secondmarket is really about.

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September 26, 2013, 06:58:29 PM
 #100

So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

No! It will have little to no effect. Would you invest only to have your investment devalued by 2% each year and further pay a 1.5% to move in and out?

What may have an effect are people who educate themselves about the EFT and Bitcoin that we can expect in 6-8 weeks from now.


This is not an investment for small players but for those seeking high liquidity and hassle free investing. People not familiar with technicalities of Bitcoin can get that for 2%/year and some one time fees.

Say you get a 200-300% return on investment/year. Would you really care about a 2% fee/year? Won't make much of a dent even on a 20-30% return/year. Most investors have no issue with this model and find it acceptable.


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