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[8Bet]

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Two other pick-6 lottery games to choose from - mega crypto jackpot of over 5 BTC or 64 BCH or 595 LTC.

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[NLNico]

There has been provably fair lotteries before and one of the few ways to do it properly is indeed using a future blockhash. One example would be PevPot (doesn't run anymore though - but cached provably fair page and open-source code.)

3. Players then buy tickets for the game until the time of the draw.

Make sure that all the tickets are public and known to everyone. Otherwise you can just claim to have the winning ticket yourself. PevPot did this by using 1 public address, use TXs confirmed between blocks x and y, sort them by TX ID and make every satoshi worth 1 ticket. This way, everyone with access to the bitcoin blockchain can make the list of tickets themselves - without even visiting the site.

There are other ways to do that though, but publicizing the ticket list (and making sure people have it before the result) is a crucial part of it.

6. The lottery results (6 lottery numbers) are then randomly generated by the well-known Mersenne Twister random number generator.

You can just assign a number for each ticket entry, generate a number based on this seed (serverseed + blockhash) and compare the two. PevPot used some modulo way. But MT (with own seed input) could work too.

There is still a chance that you and the miner are colluding, withholding a block just because you don't like the winning result (and have a second chance with next block.) This probably only makes sense if the potential loss is bigger than the miner reward. So as long as the total prize is less than 12.5 BTC, you should be fine. But for this reason, PevPot added a slow calculation that took hours before we could get the result.

[8Bet]

Original post from peer review below (since only one thread per site is allowed):
8Bet.io is a player-powered crypto gambling platform about to launch a 100% return cooperative lottery. We've published a blog post describing the Provably Fair model that uses the Bitcoin blockchain for the random number generator, see here: https://8bet.io/blog/how-it-all-works/

Extract below, for convenience. We'd welcome peer reviews of this model, with any constructive criticism of this method, thoughts on possible exploits, concerns etc. Thanks!

The 8Bet Lottery results are generated as follows:

1.  At the start of the game (before any tickets are sold) a server seed is randomly generated by the server.

2. This server seed is then hashed using SHA256 and the seed hash is then published on the game for all to see. Because this hash is public from the start of the game, the original random server seed can not be modified in any way.

3. Players then buy tickets for the game until the time of the draw.

4. At the time of the draw, ticket buys are closed and the game waits for the next block to be mined on the Bitcoin blockchain. When this happens, the game takes the block hash from this next block.

5. The server seed and the block hash are then joined together and this concatenated server seed + block hash is hashed using SHA256. This hash is then used as the RNG seed for the random number generator.

6. The lottery results (6 lottery numbers) are then randomly generated by the well-known Mersenne Twister random number generator.


_____________________________________________


Thank you! Both excellent points!

Agreed that making the ticket list public prior to the draw is an important improvement to the provably fair model - so yes, we'll take this on board and add this feature to an upcoming release. As a quick first thought on this, we'd also ensure that the ticket numbers chosen on each ticket remained private (hash with salt maybe) so player privacy was maintained (ensuring an attacker couldn't link tickets together for players choosing the same lucky numbers in each draw, or some other form of anti-privacy analysis) - but it would still be indisputably provable that the numbers on the winning ticket were generated and bought prior to the draw.

Regarding miner collusion - yes, this was a concern of ours too. In fact, we had first implemented a complicated results generation model that had a list of random indexes to transactions within the next block, and generated the RNG seed from the least significant bits of the transactions at these indexes. However, we discarded this as being overly complicated to explain or for the average player to have to step through to prove. We opted for the block hash in favour of usability and ease of understanding - but your point on miner collusion possibility still needs addressing.

It would actually be interesting to calculate just how much of the global hashrate you'd have to control in order to make this sort of collusion viable, and how this would relate to the size of the jackpot - where the tipping point would be to make discarding a block feasible. We'll take this one to the whiteboard and mull it over some - as you point out, in the early stages with jackpots smaller than the block reward this sort of collusion is idiotic so less of a concern. However with time we expect jackpots to significantly exceed block rewards, so we will aim to have a solid solution for this well before then. Watch this space!

Thanks again for the great feedback!

[MarbleBoss]

If u r planning to use Bitcoin blockchain for RNG, then u should check https://www.chain-bet.com for once. They have a fantastic use case.

[JackpotRacer]

confused a bit. according to the blog  you switched to Bitcoin Cash is that correct?

and you earn nothing?

pevpot closed down and many more. why do you think you will succeed with your lottery?

any other games on the way?

good luck

[adaseb]

Thank you! Both excellent points!

Agreed that making the ticket list public prior to the draw is an important improvement to the provably fair model - so yes, we'll take this on board and add this feature to an upcoming release. As a quick first thought on this, we'd also ensure that the ticket numbers chosen on each ticket remained private (hash with salt maybe) so player privacy was maintained (ensuring an attacker couldn't link tickets together for players choosing the same lucky numbers in each draw, or some other form of anti-privacy analysis) - but it would still be indisputably provable that the numbers on the winning ticket were generated and bought prior to the draw.

Regarding miner collusion - yes, this was a concern of ours too. In fact, we had first implemented a complicated results generation model that had a list of random indexes to transactions within the next block, and generated the RNG seed from the least significant bits of the transactions at these indexes. However, we discarded this as being overly complicated to explain or for the average player to have to step through to prove. We opted for the block hash in favour of usability and ease of understanding - but your point on miner collusion possibility still needs addressing.

It would actually be interesting to calculate just how much of the global hashrate you'd have to control in order to make this sort of collusion viable, and how this would relate to the size of the jackpot - where the tipping point would be to make discarding a block feasible. We'll take this one to the whiteboard and mull it over some - as you point out, in the early stages with jackpots smaller than the block reward this sort of collusion is idiotic so less of a concern. However with time we expect jackpots to significantly exceed block rewards, so we will aim to have a solid solution for this well before then. Watch this space!

Thanks again for the great feedback!

Don't worry about miners trying to cheat so they can win some lottery.

Yes it is possible however I don't think the pools would get together and try to cheat you guys.

Even if 1 pool tries to cheat, it highly unlikely that they would mine the specific block of the lottery.

[8Bet]

confused a bit. according to the blog  you switched to Bitcoin Cash is that correct?

Yes, we switched to Bitcoin Cash as the native playing currency for the platform - but players can still deposit in BTC, BCH, and LTC (with more coming). We had to make this change because of the Core scalability issues at the end of last year - high fees (fees many times higher than our ticket costs) and long confirmation times were a non-starter for a lottery product. We also need fast and (almost) fee-less internal movement of funds in order to achieve our goal of 100% return to players.

So BCH works as the native/internal/playing currency and the jackpot is denoted in BCH - but players have choices on deposit and withdrawal cryptos.

and you earn nothing?

Yes, the model is 100% return to players. There is no house edge, it is a zero margin lottery.
The platform is powered by players - contributors do the development, management and operations. "Marketing" is by word of mouth, players spreading the word, posting links etc. Players who aren't contributing time or awareness can opt to donate funds (default of 5% of only winning tickets), which get used for operational costs (hosting etc.) or for bounties for paid feature development.

pevpot closed down and many more. why do you think you will succeed with your lottery?

We've had a quick look at the pevpot model based on another comment on here, and 8Bet is quite different. The house-less model with a player cooperative running the platform hasn't been done before (to our knowledge) so we are treading new ground.
Ultimately the opportunity to gamble on a 100% return model with a genuine chance of winning and not being fleeced in the long run resonated with a lot of fellow gamblers (this blog post explains why: https://8bet.io/blog/gambling-today-is-flawed/) , so we are already a group of interested customers ourselves. In the long run the market will dictate if 8Bet lives or dies - if enough players find value in the 8Bet model they will "vote" with their bankrolls, instead of spending it at the usual house-edged establishments.

any other games on the way?

Yes, we're working on ways to disrupt other types of gambling too - working on models for 100% return casino games etc.
But right now, the focus is on lottery (2 games at launch) and we'll take it from there.

good luck

Thank you! If you'd like an invite to the private beta currently underway, please message me.

[8Bet]

Today's Peoples One draw had a lucky winner with 3 ball matches paying 10x!

It was only their fourth ticket ever at 8BET.io!

[8Bet]

Still in BETA but the Peoples One Lottery at 8BET.io paid out over 100% yesterday 8 March 2018

Use the private beta invite link to 8BET.io for early access - play two daily blockchain lottery draws in BTC, LTC or BCH.

[8Bet]

BOOM! Two days in a row now!

Peoples One draw #31536 has paid over 100% once again 

Give the 8Bet.io bitcoin lottery a try today - tickets 0.001 BCH to win over 10 BCH. Deposit BTC, BCH or LTC.

[JackpotRacer]

BOOM! Two days in a row now!

Peoples One draw #31536 has paid over 100% once again 

Give the 8Bet.io bitcoin lottery a try today - tickets 0.001 BCH to win over 10 BCH. Deposit BTC, BCH or LTC.

how much have been the 100% for the winner?

congrats to the winner

[8Bet]

how much have been the 100% for the winner?
congrats to the winner

It was actually a combination of fewer ball matches (not the 6-match jackpot) that resulted in total payouts for draw #31536 being more that total spent on tickets for the draw (ie. over 100% payout to players) 

Because the 8Bet.io bitcoin lottery games pay out much, much higher than regular lotteries, it is not uncommon for a number of tickets matching fewer than 6 balls in a draw to make the entire draw exceed 100% payout (you don't have to have a jackpot winner to have over 100% payout in a draw).

For example, Revolution Lotto pays:
- 3x for matching just 2 balls!! (you will find no other lottery with this crazy payout!)
- 10x for matching 3 balls

As the product has just launched, the jackpots are still low at just over 10 BCH (but growing) - however all the payouts for matching less than 6 balls are very high, so this makes these games very interesting while waiting for the big hit to come 

Give it a try, would love to hear what you think - the beta link is https://8bet.io/beta

[darenyu]

Hey 8bet,

Trying to send you a pm but you have the newbie option turned off in your profile

Profile -> Personal message options -> allow newbies to send you PMs.

[8Bet]

Trying to send you a pm but you have the newbie option turned off in your profile

Ok, changed. PM away! 

[8Bet]

The jackpot has just gone over 11 BCH (+1.26 BTC)

Use the 8BET beta link to get past the waitlist.

[Bitinity]

BOOM! Two days in a row now!

Peoples One draw #31536 has paid over 100% once again 

Give the 8Bet.io bitcoin lottery a try today - tickets 0.001 BCH to win over 10 BCH. Deposit BTC, BCH or LTC.

Where can I find the winning bet history of previous drawn lottery?
By the way, your lottery reminds me for dustlottery on jackpotracer (the game has gone unfortunately) but yours is only being drawn once every 24 hours?
Isn't it too long time too wait? I think you can make it as instant lottery like what dustlottery had long time ago.

[JackpotRacer]

BOOM! Two days in a row now!

Peoples One draw #31536 has paid over 100% once again 

Give the 8Bet.io bitcoin lottery a try today - tickets 0.001 BCH to win over 10 BCH. Deposit BTC, BCH or LTC.

Where can I find the winning bet history of previous drawn lottery?
By the way, your lottery reminds me for dustlottery on jackpotracer (the game has gone unfortunately) but yours is only being drawn once every 24 hours?
Isn't it too long time too wait? I think you can make it as instant lottery like what dustlottery had long time ago.

good catch and thank you for the kind words. as soon we have a dev we will be back (just for info)

[8Bet]

Where can I find the winning bet history of previous drawn lottery?

Once you sign in, go to History on the sidebar to see the full history (balls drawn) for all previous draws, together with the provably fair info to verify the draw if you so wish - seed (private until draw), seed hash (always public), Bitcoin block number (first block after draw closed), Bitcoin block hash (used for the blockchain part of the random number generation for the draw) - see the provably fair description.

We are also planning to add verifiable info about all tickets bought for a draw (based on other discussions in this thread) including stats about winnings/draw - this needs to be done in a cryptographically secure way to protect the privacy of players (for example, so that outside parties cannot link tickets together based on player number choices to associate all tickets bought by the same players, or to combine this with crypto blockchain analysis to associate players with real-world identities). We take privacy very seriously so we are spending the requisite time on making sure it is bulletproof, and not susceptible to an analysis attack.

... only being drawn once every 24 hours? Isn't it too long time too wait? I think you can make it as instant lottery like what dustlottery had long time ago.

These first two games draw daily (12 hours apart), and you can buy tickets for upcoming draws several days in advance - for when you want to play your lucky numbers or quick pick, fire and forget. The system will then email/text you after each draw, letting you know if/what you hit. So not really aimed for the instant game market.

There is a project on the roadmap for more instant games that will draw every Bitcoin block, but there are at least a few more major releases (combined a few weeks) before that starts active development. We'll keep you posted!

[BTCevo]

I just checked your site and I saw you have 2 games which is people one and revolution, so what is the different about it? There is only different in bet per tickets that you submit. And how can we checked that it is provably fair?
And about the payment, it is pay through bch? Can't be on other coin?
And btw I do not understand about the 3 tiers that you split it, non players can get the bonus too just by participate when someone hit the jackpot?

[8Bet]

I just checked your site and I saw you have 2 games which is people one and revolution, so what is the different about it? There is only different in bet per tickets that you submit.

On the home page you can see the two games side by side with the comparison - basically Revolution Lotto costs more but pays higher for 2-5 ball matches (eg. matching 2 balls on Revolution pays 3x while matching 2 on People's One pays 1.25x). Both games of course return a total of 100%

And how can we checked that it is provably fair?

We've outlined the process in this provably fair post. Basically, if you want to validate/prove that a draw was fair, you can follow the same steps yourself (using your own or other non-8Bet code) and you will get the same ball results. You only need two tools - a SHA256 hash implementation, and a Mersenne Twister RNG. Perhaps we will post some links to publicly accepted independent implementations of these, but any that you choose should work just as well.

And about the payment, it is pay through bch? Can't be on other coin?

Deposits can be BTC, BCH or LTC - with more coming. Any particular coins that you would like to see on there ?

And btw I do not understand about the 3 tiers that you split it, non players can get the bonus too just by participate when someone hit the jackpot?

The 3 tiers of the 100% return (pasting the Revolution Lotto payouts below) break down as follows:

  Non-jackpot game returns 69.0%  [ this is the return from the payouts for matching 2-5 balls ]
  Jackpot stakers get 8.3%    [ this is returned to all players staking the jackpot ]
  Jackpot rollover gets 22.7%    [ this is the amount rolled over to grow the next jackpot, if nobody wins ]
  TOTAL RETURN = 100.0%

Regarding you question on non players - yes, every player that has an active stake at the time of the draw still gets paid the staking share, even if they don't have any tickets in the current draw. The staking payout is collected from all tickets bought and then distributed in proportion to all players based on their stakes.