[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[AM4Bitcoin]

Good Cointerra news.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389443.0

[cryptx]

Good Bitmine news:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=4543

[hephaist0s]

Good Cointerra news.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389443.0

Good Bitmine news:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=4543

My God, what if this actually works?!

[cryptx]

Cryptx,

Cointerra has been offering compensation to December orders for the delay.  I'm assuming that includes us as well.  Do you have good news for us?

We haven't received any news regarding such offer.

Our policy:

From http://www.peta-mine.co/peta-mine/

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 30 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

Adjusted to the current situation (76446 shares sold):

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 36.7 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

[Anotheranonlol]

Cryptx,

Cointerra has been offering compensation to December orders for the delay.  I'm assuming that includes us as well.  Do you have good news for us?

We haven't received any news regarding such offer.

Our policy:

From http://www.peta-mine.co/peta-mine/

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 30 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

Adjusted to the current situation (76446 shares sold):

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 36.7 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

I'm customer of cointerra and have been offered better conditions than what's offered above in your terms if shipment is late,  being angel investors of cointerra, I'd be hard pushed to imagine a situation where you would get a worse deal than end user.

[Wayne_Chang]

Cryptx,

Cointerra has been offering compensation to December orders for the delay.  I'm assuming that includes us as well.  Do you have good news for us?

We haven't received any news regarding such offer.

Our policy:

From http://www.peta-mine.co/peta-mine/

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 30 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

Adjusted to the current situation (76446 shares sold):

For example, if CryptX ultimately deploys the mine after mid January, 2014, an additional 36.7 TH/s of power will be added to the PETA-MINE completely free of charge to shareholders, and each share will be entitled to 2.88 GH/s of hash power. If the company starts deployment after mid February, 2014, it will add an additional 20% on top of the previous 20%. In that case, each share would be entitled to 3.45 GH/s of hash power.

I'm customer of cointerra and have been offered better conditions than what's offered above in your terms if shipment is late,  being angel investors of cointerra, I'd be hard pushed to imagine a situation where you would get a worse deal than end user.

Was Cointerra hidden something to PETA or PETA hidden something to shareholders?

[dhenson]

Cryptx,

It's time to renegotiate the deal with Cointerra.  At this point 20% isn't going to cut it.

[altoidmintz]

Cryptx,

It's time to renegotiate the deal with Cointerra.  At this point 20% isn't going to cut it.

...?

Bitcoin difficulty adjusts every 2016 blocks. A block is mined about every 10 minutes. This means difficulty adjusts about every 2 weeks. There are about 4 weeks in a month.
http://bitcoindifficulty.com/
Bitcoin difficulty is adjusting about +1% per adjustment. Compounded monthly, this means about +2.01% increase per month.

Gaining 20% mining power per month, we are essentially realizing a real-value gain of about 18% per month as long as the chips are delayed.

I think 20% will cut it just fine.



Now on the other hand, if we can get a better deal I'm all for it

[dhenson]

My point is that a customer purchasing 1 unit is receiving 100% bonus due to the late delivery.  We on the other hand have purchased MANY units and are only receiving an additional 20%.

The deal Cryptx struck months ago has been negated by the current situation.

That is all I'm trying to say.

[rdyoung]

Cryptx,

It's time to renegotiate the deal with Cointerra.  At this point 20% isn't going to cut it.

...?

Bitcoin difficulty adjusts every 2016 blocks. A block is mined about every 10 minutes. This means difficulty adjusts about every 2 weeks. There are about 4 weeks in a month.
http://bitcoindifficulty.com/
Bitcoin difficulty is adjusting about +1% per adjustment. Compounded monthly, this means about +2.01% increase per month.

Gaining 20% mining power per month, we are essentially realizing a real-value gain of about 18% per month as long as the chips are delayed.

I think 20% will cut it just fine.



Now on the other hand, if we can get a better deal I'm all for it

That website is way way off when it comes to next estimated difficulty.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
That one is way more accurate, and adjusts every so many blocks.

Our longterm average increase from the genesis block is 15.42% per adjustment. For easy math, lets say 15.42% every 2 weeks, thats 30.82% increase every month.
The increases as of the past year have been greater than this though. Reinvesting the 35% they are, will have them barely keeping up with difficulty, however, I do believe that it will have to level off eventually. I have no clue how large the network will be, but the larger the # the more it will take to push it higher.

[rdyoung]

My point is that a customer purchasing 1 unit is receiving 100% bonus due to the late delivery.  We on the other hand have purchased MANY units and are only receiving an additional 20%.

The deal Cryptx struck months ago has been negated by the current situation.

That is all I'm trying to say.

We don't know the exact details of their contract with cointerra. We should also consider that they are getting chips not fully functional plug and play hardware. They are likely paying a lot less per hash than the "public".

[dhenson]

We don't know the exact details of their contract with cointerra. We should also consider that they are getting chips not fully functional plug and play hardware. They are likely paying a lot less per hash than the "public".

What is your point exactly?  That we should be happy with the 20% deal when others are doubling what they purchased?  If anything, raw chips would be cheaper for Cointerra to make concessions on... no build costs, no additional materials etc.

The fact that we aren't going after a better deal is what is concerning me.

[rdyoung]

We don't know the exact details of their contract with cointerra. We should also consider that they are getting chips not fully functional plug and play hardware. They are likely paying a lot less per hash than the "public".

What is your point exactly?  That we should be happy with the 20% deal when others are doubling what they purchased?  If anything, raw chips would be cheaper for Cointerra to make concessions on... no build costs, no additional materials etc.

The fact that we aren't going after a better deal is what is concerning me.

My point is that exactly. We DO NOT KNOW whats going on behind the scenes. To me, the same guarantees that they are providing to the public where a lot of orders are likely people buying "money machines", wouldn't necessarily apply to orders on the scale of petamine.

Why are you looking for info that may not apply? According to cointerra they are on schedule. Petamine will likely get their first delivery of chips in january.

[dhenson]

Up until this point, I have been very happy with how things have been going.  In fact,  I have been a PETAMINE supporter since day one.

This issue however stinks to me.  Either we are too close to Cointerra to demand equal compensation, or something else is going on that we don't know about.

Simply saying that we should be happy with 20% just doesn't fly.

[altoidmintz]

That website is way way off when it comes to next estimated difficulty.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
That one is way more accurate, and adjusts every so many blocks.

Our longterm average increase from the genesis block is 15.42% per adjustment. For easy math, lets say 15.42% every 2 weeks, thats 30.82% increase every month.
The increases as of the past year have been greater than this though. Reinvesting the 35% they are, will have them barely keeping up with difficulty, however, I do believe that it will have to level off eventually. I have no clue how large the network will be, but the larger the # the more it will take to push it higher.

If the site you mention, which I know nothing about, is accurate, then this does present a real problem. Using a long term average is not useful for prediction of next month, but using data from Nov and Dec at the site you mention we can expect an adjustment per month of 40%+. That would indicate a real-value loss of 20%+ per month, and these values do compound over time.

While I think it is unrealistic for us to pursue a 100% compensation arrangement, including the fact that we do not know the details of that contract as rdyoung mentions, I do think we should pursue protection from loss of real value. Perhaps we can argue for treatment only half as good as this other person received, obtaining 50% compensation.

While I do not think any renegotiation will happen realistically, and while I think PETA is a good value at .05 regardless, as I said before I would be all the more pleased if we can leverage this situation into an improved deal.

[rdyoung]

Up until this point, I have been very happy with how things have been going.  In fact,  I have been a PETAMINE supporter since day one.

This issue however stinks to me.  Either we are too close to Cointerra to demand equal compensation, or something else is going on that we don't know about.

Simply saying that we should be happy with 20% just doesn't fly.

I am not saying that we should be happy. But its not the 20% thats a big deal, its the % reinvested to keep up with difficulty that really matters. And again, it looks like cointerra is about on schedule, so the % of extra power is perhaps a moot point at the moment.

I only recently jumped in on shares when they moved to havelock. I plan on increasing my # of shares as funds allow.
Again, We DO NOT KNOW the fine details of the deal petamine cut with cointerra. If cointerra is offering extra hashing power to the end user, perhaps they will step up and ship extra chips to petamine if they dont meet deadline. Again, WE DO NOT KNOW

[rdyoung]

That website is way way off when it comes to next estimated difficulty.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
That one is way more accurate, and adjusts every so many blocks.

Our longterm average increase from the genesis block is 15.42% per adjustment. For easy math, lets say 15.42% every 2 weeks, thats 30.82% increase every month.
The increases as of the past year have been greater than this though. Reinvesting the 35% they are, will have them barely keeping up with difficulty, however, I do believe that it will have to level off eventually. I have no clue how large the network will be, but the larger the # the more it will take to push it higher.

If the site you mention, which I know nothing about, is accurate, then this does present a real problem. Using a long term average is not useful for prediction of next month, but using data from Nov and Dec at the site you mention we can expect an adjustment per month of 40%+. That would indicate a real-value loss of 20%+ per month, and these values do compound over time.

While I think it is unrealistic for us to pursue a 100% compensation arrangement, including the fact that we do not know the details of that contract as rdyoung mentions, I do think we should pursue protection from loss of real value. Perhaps we can argue for treatment only half as good as this other person received, obtaining 50% compensation.

While I do not think anything will happen realistically, and while I think PETA is a good value at .05 regardless, as I said before I would be all the more pleased if we can leverage this situation into an improved deal.

I am using the longterm average because thats how I read data. The more info the better. We could cut everything out pre asic, but those increases wont affect the #s that much, so there is no need. We can't assume anything in the short term based on previous months, this is why I am looking at the long term average.
Changes in difficulty are likely tied to ship dates from the asic manufacturers. So if cointerra meets their deadline for jan batches, we will likely see a larger increase in feb as these machines are brought online.

Again, from a statistical standpoint, this parabolic rise can not continue. I am not saying it will stop tomorrow, but it will have to slow eventually.
Look at it like this. Assuming 10phs where we are equals 1.5billion in difficulty, to increase the difficulty to 3billion, IE 100% increase will require 10phs more of hardware coming online, if all the chips were cointerras 500ghs chips, 10,000 chips would need to come online. And this doesnt account for all of the older gens of hardware that are being made obsolete with every increase, nor the hardware that is likely dieing or being pointed at altcoins.

[altoidmintz]

I am using the longterm average because thats how I read data. The more info the better. We could cut everything out pre asic, but those increases wont affect the #s that much, so there is no need.

Again, from a statistical standpoint, this parabolic rise can not continue. I am not saying it will stop tomorrow, but it will have to slow eventually.
Look at it like this. Assuming 10phs where we are equals 1.5billion in difficulty, to increase the difficulty to 3billion, IE 100% increase will require 10phs more of hardware coming online, if all the chips were cointerras 500ghs chips, 10,000 chips would need to come online. And this doesnt account for all of the older gens of hardware that are being made obsolete with every increase, nor the hardware that is likely dieing or being pointed at altcoins.

In what way does this alter my conclusion?

[rdyoung]

I am using the longterm average because thats how I read data. The more info the better. We could cut everything out pre asic, but those increases wont affect the #s that much, so there is no need.

Again, from a statistical standpoint, this parabolic rise can not continue. I am not saying it will stop tomorrow, but it will have to slow eventually.
Look at it like this. Assuming 10phs where we are equals 1.5billion in difficulty, to increase the difficulty to 3billion, IE 100% increase will require 10phs more of hardware coming online, if all the chips were cointerras 500ghs chips, 10,000 chips would need to come online. And this doesnt account for all of the older gens of hardware that are being made obsolete with every increase, nor the hardware that is likely dieing or being pointed at altcoins.

In what way does this alter my conclusion?

Its info for your brain to chew on.
My main point being 2 fold I guess. 1) Why were you basing your math on a site that is claiming a 1% increase when its doubled in the past 3 months? 2) The "compensation agreement", isn't that important for a couple of reasons, a) they are on schedule, and b) Its the reinvest that matters to keep with difficulty.

1 last thing.
http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

[Raitzi]

Is it just me or do you think electricity cost of 0.45$/kWh is quite big?
It says it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjI5bgsiFJAidFBsclpVM0FSdFZNalRGNnVlc0VxSGc&usp=drive_web#gid=1

I myself pay about 0.14-0.16$/kwh in Finland.