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Question: What solution would you prefer?
Unconditional income (extremely high taxation inevitable) - 174 (77.3%)
Planned economy (with full employment provided by state) - 51 (22.7%)
Total Voters: 225

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Author Topic: Technological unemployment is (almost) here  (Read 88222 times)
Biomech
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March 04, 2014, 04:41:27 PM
 #461

@Biomech, I fully agree with you about usefulness of the technology. Again, I am not a Luddite as someone may falsely think.
The problem is in the currently-dominant political system and redistribution mechanisms. Robots and automation can open new era of greatest prosperity for everyone if properly used!

Well, on this we agree. I've refrained from heckling and mocking because you seem an intelligent person. You've now given me a basis for both agreement and argumentation.

I fully agree with your statement:
Quote
The problem is in the currently-dominant political system and redistribution mechanisms.

However, you seem to be directly attacking capitalism, which is not a political system. It is rather an economic system, and it operates both in and out of the existing political paradigms. The harsh truth that most do not wish to acknowledge is that the modern system, even in nominally communist countries, is a form of corporatism. That was the name that Mussolini gave to his system, even though the party was called "fascist". We associate fascism with rampant nationalism and deliberate institutionalized hatred of a specific group. While that was how it was implemented in Nazi germany, these are not the central facets of that system.

I'll elucidate, and try to construct a logical argument as to why I think that such systems are coming to an end long before technology renders US obsolete, as it has already rendered fascism obsolete. It's just that it's a stubborn beast and hasn't finished dying.

caveat to you and those following. This is going to be long, and tl;dr is impossible

To start, I have to lay down my axioms. If not, too many of the terms I use can be misconstrued. This is necessary due to both "drift" in the vernacular and deliberate obfuscation by many hostile and interested parties.

So. Capitalism is an economic system in which property and the means of production are held by private individuals and growth is fueled by investment of capital.

Capital is tangible goods, securities against tangible goods, and currency. This can be expanded upon, but that is good enough for now.

In modern parlance, capitalism has come to be associated with corporatism and fascism. While both have capitalistic elements, they do not tolerate a great deal of free markets, which is where capitalism really shines.

I am an agorist for the most part, and I believe Bitcoin and its derivatives to be one of the coolest counter economic forces ever conceived.

The modern world is absolutely dominated by Coporatism, whereby the state allows private business, but heavily regulates it in order to foster both patronage and dependence. The modern mega corporation is entirely a creature of the state right down to being considered a 'person' at matters of law. Without the State, the mega corporation could not exist, for the state provides it with protection. Without the mega corporations, particularly banks, the modern State could not exist for it would be limited in power by how much ACTUAL capital it could obtain.

While the modern state does not, for the most part, go for the openly totalitarian route of the early 20th century, it does intrude on every aspect of human life, and it does so for totalitarian reasons. For purely political reasons, it tries to appear to be at arms length in the most intimate of our affairs. But it retains the "right" and definitely the ability, to intrude upon everything.

One of it's prime features, in varying degrees, is that it constantly foments fear of "the others". This is a fascistic element, but they have refined it from the crude "Juden Verbotten" of Hitler. He played primarily on jealousy and hatred. Those are powerful emotions, but the more modern state has figured out the most important emotion for manipulation: Fear. Fear motivates people, but it also short circuits analysis. This allows the State, and by extension it's corporate patrons, to exploit people in such a way that they beg for more. The United State Of America (that's not a typo) is the current master of this dark art, going so far as to declare perpetual war on an emotion.

Another constant feature of such rulership is to constantly pit one group against another to create internal strife, with each group crying out to the rulers to ameliorate their grievance. Which it never does, but it constructs so-called laws to make it APPEAR to do so. Every one of these laws creates more problems, deliberately in most cases, than it was supposed to solve. So then they build on that. This is a time consuming process. A thing that most people fail to grasp is that those who seek to rule do not think in terms of today and tomorrow, they think in terms of generations. While nominally, my country of birth does not have an hereditary ruling class, the truth is other than this. The same few families have dominated the political process for generations. Oh, sure, from time to time an outsider learns the game well enough to get inside, but he is either quickly marginalized (e.g. Ron Paul) or becomes captured by the system and willingly or unwittingly helps to expand it. The One Rule for those who would rule is simply this: The Rules do not apply to the Rulers. In my youth I was heavily involved in the political process, and I found one overwhelming truth: A politician wants power the way a drowning man wants air. He will do anything, no matter how vile, to get it. His only principle is the aggregation of power. It matters not to him how he gets it, what lies, frauds, or murders he must commit, who he betrays, nothing. He only cooperates with others vying for absolute power to the extent that he must to get his piece of it. The only positive thing about this is that while most of them are clever, most aren't very intellectual. They have no inkling of the world outside of their bubble, since who cares what the cattle do as long as they don't rebel.

But this long view has some serious weaknesses, and so does the lust for power. They simply cannot conceive of a world in which there are not central rulers. It is unthinkable to them. Not merely an abomination to their religion, but an anomaly. The Thing That Should Not Be. Thus the technology that they use is not something they feel the need to understand. Regulate, yes, but not understand.

In the 19th and early 20th century, this did not greatly affect them. They had sufficient sway and the technology was sufficiently crude that they could still do the thing most important to rulers in maintaining their power: Control the flow of information. A few inventions put paid to that, though most have yet to figure it out. The first was the telegraph, as information could be transmitted over long distances nearly instantly. They realized the danger in that, and quickly co-opted it. But the genie was out of the bottle, and not long after, radio came about. They quickly co-opted that, but not quick enough. Ideas started getting spread to the great unwashed. Ideas that were not sanctioned by the state.

Then, unfortunately, came a great boon to the rulers. Television. It was regulated right from the start, and what went out, for the most part, was what they approved. Over time they were able to promote it as something necessary and needed. People became addicted, and programming got more and more sophisticated and more devoid of content. Especially news. Where a newspaper article was likely to be vetted, censored, and defanged, it was still somewhat in-depth. TV news consists of sound bites that don't even make internal sense, yet people depend on it. Or did.

During the time they were perfecting the TV as the perfect propaganda machine, technology marched on. Inventors invent things whether anyone likes it or not. A group of rather smart people in and out of government accidentally created the greatest weapon for freedom ever conceived: Networked computers. By the late '70s, the penetration of D'arpanet by people such as myself was commonplace. So commonplace that about a decade and a half later, they gave up and released the protocol. Shortly thereafter, a guy working at CERN came up with a file retrieval system for their internal documents, and the World Wide Web was born. It is explicitly, if not exactly, what the hackers of my generation were working towards. I think I was in the minority in seeing that. Most of the hackers of my generation were appalled by the internet, because we all thought of capitalism as the system in place, and while we were young and idealistic, most of us weren't real well educated. The Web achieved our dream of nearly free and nearly instantaneous communication of ideas across the globe, and it did it so fucking fast that it caught everyone off guard. Including the rulers. It continues to move at that pace.

Now that we can communicate without the artificial barriers of Nation and Status, we're doing so. This has raised some ugly truths, such as most people really are as complacent and dumb as the rulers hoped for, but it has also put forth the opportunity to deconstruct them. A beautiful truth is that the internets have become absolutely vital for the operation of the modern state. The will fall before the net does. Therein lies the seeds of their destruction, because we can all talk, we can think to the future, and if we adopt their attitude of the long view ALONG WITH the adaptability of the modern marketplace, they will simple become irrelevant in not that long of a time frame.

From where I sit, the next stage in that evolution is already happening. More and more of us are starting our own niche businesses through the medium of the internet. Digital currencies evolved in the marketplace in a haphazard manner prior to Bitcoin, bu the concept was already there. Linden dollars had real world value. Gold from Diablo traded for dollars and goods. Satoshi just raised the level and formalized it. The beauty of this is that even if bitcoin fails, the concept has already been proven, and like the internet, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Every day more people get involved with cryptocurrency, and thus at least begin to control their own fate.

This leads to a shadow employment. Not truly a black market, as most of what is done is not illegal. It's just off teh books. It's international in scope, and individual in practice. As more and more people adopt these ideas, the less attractive is the central government ideal of dividing the world into chunks and fighting over them. In 1980, you would never have convinced me that I would be talking to guys around the world on a device made in Taiwan, China, and Vietnam while minting a digital currency on a device made in Bulgaria and assembled in The USA. The technology has brought us together as a species to a greater degree than any time in the previous history of man. The old strategies are no longer working, since the advent of all of these means of both trade and communication.

All that stands in the way of the inevitable collapse of the current political systems is a few generations of BELIEF in the super state. And it is really a short time frame. Prior to the 20th century, huge Empires were an aberration. Most "nations" were small. Even those who weren't didn't have a great reach. The super state probably has its origins in Rome, but its full flowering did not happen until the 20th century. It may have even been a necessary stage in human development. I won't concede that, but I'll concede the possibility. But now, in the early 21st, it is entirely obsolete. And what's more, those in power are fully aware of their obsolescence. They are fighting a desperate holding action against their own subjects. Here in the United State of America, it has become obvious to all but the dense that they are utterly in fear of their "citizens". I am 45 years old, and the difference in the overt use of military force via "police" forces is astounding. When I was a young man, a cop who gunned down a mother for giving him lip would hang. Possibly literally. Now he'll be given a pass and feted as a hero. Yet what he did will likely be on somebody's smartphone, and a few minutes later viewable 'round the world. The stark contrast between what they sell us and what they actually do is everywhere and right in the open. They pretend that they still control the information. Truth is, they cannot.

And this will be their undoing. There will come a point where the subjects realize that they outnumber the rulers AND THEIR ARMIES by such significant numbers that they need not accept the fear. They will have seen through the lenses of the smartphones of their friends, neighbors, and countrymen just exactly what the government really is: A criminal gang with a patina of legitimacy. When that happens in large numbers (not if, it's inevitable), that gang will have two choices: Bow out gracefully or go to war. Being what they are, they will choose the latter. Which likely will seal their fate and doom them to a particularly nasty page of history.

Following that, people will likely break down into smaller self supporting groups. But the 'net and it's attendant ease of commerce and communication will remain. Some groups will be more successful than others, and they will be emulated, but the central government paradigm will have been fragmented.

To get there, we need a lot of education, and a lot of preparation on the part of people who can understand the old writing on the wall "mene, mene, tekel, uparshin!" Because when a large government fails, it usually happens very fast and the majority are caught unawares. This leads to a lot of problems, and they do tend to fairly quickly establish more rulers. There is something in a large number of humans that wants to be dominated.

But I think that when this starts happening (and it already has around the peripheries) that a good number of people will opt out, start their own communities of like minded individuals, and succeed. Those people will not be displaced by robots, though they might make good use of them. And the mega corporations WILL NOT survive the death of the Imperial powers without radical reorganization. The concept of the Juridical Person will be abolished without the "governing authority", and they will have to compete on their own merits. Without the system of debt that is the current system of economics, they will shrink massively if they don't fail altogether.

Another part of this equation that bears mention is the whole open source phenomenon. People are giving away their intellectual prowess, and making a profit on the idea anyway.

In closing, I'm going to quote  a gentleman who's name I've forgotten, but his quote will be with me forever.

"I cannot predict the future, but the trends I see indicate 6 billion small businesses".  
Biomech
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March 04, 2014, 04:45:16 PM
 #462

Further, and this is something I have been hammering on since I was a child, why the FUCK are we limiting ourselves to Earth? We have the resources, we have had the technology since the late sixties,....

That is the conundrum, isn't it? Why are we limiting ourselves?

I studied aerospace engineering around the time of the fall of the Soviet Union and it was 100% clear to us then that the age of conquering space would start and we would open a new frontier. Instead, all the money went into a crazed and de-regulated banking sector which is why I ended up working for banks, helping them to "invent" all sort of "innovative products".

We squandered the peace dividend.

I reject utterly the underlying axioms of this thread, and have for longer than the internet has existed.

The fiscal-financial complex is the parasite that is eating us alive. But if we make redundant the BANK with all sort of technologies which can be build upon the blockchain concept (contracts...), I will agree with you: The boost to the economy this will cause will be so massive that this thread will look ridiculous.

But right now it looks like the state propaganda works: Occupy doesn't see centralization of power as the problem, but as a solution. The vast majority wants more of the same. As a result, this thread looks like it has merrit.

See my long ass post. I agree with you. But I also see glimmers of hope. I became aware that I was an anarchist about 15 years ago. Talking about it raised shields and eyebrows. Now people don't dismiss me out of hand, and will even argue the merits with me. Kids, especially. They come out of high school pretty much a blank slate of unthinking slogans, but the human mind didn't evolve that way. Inside those teens, as annoying as they are, is a working brain. Reaching it is often difficult, but once you do, great things happen. As has always been the case, the youth are our future. And they are comfortable with the technology that spells the death of centralization.
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March 04, 2014, 06:42:32 PM
 #463

[CUT] As has always been the case, the youth are our future. And they are comfortable with the technology that spells the death of centralization.

Youth has been sold. Sorry.

I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence. -- Thomas Jefferson
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March 04, 2014, 06:58:38 PM
 #464

The modern world is absolutely dominated by Coporatism, whereby the state allows private business, but heavily regulates it in order to foster both patronage and dependence. The modern mega corporation is entirely a creature of the state right down to being considered a 'person' at matters of law. Without the State, the mega corporation could not exist, for the state provides it with protection. Without the mega corporations, particularly banks, the modern State could not exist for it would be limited in power by how much ACTUAL capital it could obtain.
Absolutely agree with you! Most countries now have some form of the crony capitalism. Laws being enacted in favor of corporations and against interest of ordinary people! Copyright and patents are good examples.

But I think that when this starts happening (and it already has around the peripheries) that a good number of people will opt out, start their own communities of like minded individuals, and succeed. Those people will not be displaced by robots, though they might make good use of them. And the mega corporations WILL NOT survive the death of the Imperial powers without radical reorganization. The concept of the Juridical Person will be abolished without the "governing authority", and they will have to compete on their own merits. Without the system of debt that is the current system of economics, they will shrink massively if they don't fail altogether.
Very likely scenario and I hope many of these communities will choose resource-based economy model.

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March 04, 2014, 09:29:15 PM
 #465

Just read interesting though that unemployment rise may be caused by investments' shift from product innovations (i.e. inventing new classes of consumer goods and services) to the process ones (improving means of production to increase output and lower labor overhead). Investing into automation and robotics becoming more profitable than say funding a flying car development.
If this is true, large corporations like Google and Apple with tons of cash in savings will put it into process innovation, producing a whole tsunami of technological unemployment. In proof, Google shareholders are not so stupid to waste a lot of money on robotics startups they have bough recently.

Quote
Here’s one possible suspect: This jobless recovery is the result of an economy now better at generating process innovation (creating cheaper, more efficient ways to make existing consumer goods and services) than what business consultant Clayton Christensen has termed “empowering innovation” (creating new consumer goods and services). For a variety of reasons — including how we educate kids and tax capital — efficiency innovations are liberating capital that’s now being mostly reinvested in still more efficiency innovation, rather than in empowering innovation as in the past. And it’s the jobs in sectors experiencing more process than product innovation, explains banker and entrepreneur Ashwin Parameswaran, that are more susceptible to automation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349927/welcome-recovery-year-five-james-pethokoukis
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March 05, 2014, 03:23:28 AM
 #466

We are discussing the future in the Dark Enlightenment thread, and the immediately following quote applies to what I wrote before (as quoted at the bottom this post) in this thread here, where I stated that you are demanding the wrong solution with your poll choices:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=5238&cpage=1#comment-425667

Quote from: esr
Quote
>There is a strain of singularity/”post-scarcity” thinking – among people I might not precisely describe as hackers, but who are definitely part of today’s internet milieu nonetheless, which holds that something like a basic income guarantee (or, as a darker alternative, welfare tied to an increasing amount of pointless make-work) will become necessary

I know. This is what we call “failure to learn from history”.

Democratic welfare states erected on any premise have an inevitable failure mode that I have elsewhere described as “Olsonian collapse”. This is on topic because it’s one of the things the DE gets right.

The particular strain of post-scarcity thinking you’re describing hasn’t figured out that the least unstable versions of a basic-income-guarantee system are despotisms and oligarchies in which the concept of political equality has been necessarily jettisoned. They should study the terminal period of the Roman Republic and learn to be more careful what they wish for.


I don't have time to read this thread to see if anyone already mentioned the recent Oxford study/research which claims 45% of all existing jobs will be gone within 20 years.

The new economy be knowledged based and mostly programmers and hitech knowledge workers (e.g. nanotech, etc). Everything will be automated, there is even a D-shape 3D printer that can print an entire house in solid, monolithic marble.

I've written about this on my blog:

http://unheresy.com

It is interesting how this relates to the dystopian future that Bitcoin creates.

Specifically Bitcoin aggregates too much to the early adopters, because the debasement ends and the mining is ASICs only.

Thus you will end up with only 0.01% with the money and the rest of society pissed off and unemployable.

Luckily I don't think that will be the outcome. Instead an altcoin will soon destroy this perceived monopoly and the world will be saved from this dystopia. But not if the Bitcoiners have their way, such as blocking me from replying further to that above linked thread (or was the entire thread locked?).



P.S. I can't vote for the poll, because it doesn't include the choice, "Minanarchy where the unemployed have to retrain or live in poverty". Of course, we will need to be charitable and provide food via private charities.

Both of the choices for the poll can't possibly be sustained (wasting human resources always leads to failure and death). They are eugenics outcomes. See Ted Turner's (CNN) Georgia Guidestones inscriptions for where that leads you.

You socialists go on with your myopia. History shows where you ALWAYS end up.

unheresy.com - Prodigiously Elucidating the Profoundly ObtuseTHIS FORUM ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE
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March 05, 2014, 04:49:53 AM
 #467

I can't vote for the poll, because it doesn't include the choice, "Minanarchy where the unemployed have to retrain or live in poverty". Of course, we will need to be charitable and provide food via private charities.
I can admit there will be few enclosed communities for elite and engineers with meritocracy and minimum govt, but NEVER in large countries. When most people will start understanding what is happening, social unrest, revolutions and civil wars will fire around the world very quickly. The elite will try to save their asses by escaping into highly secured areas, while "have nots" will confiscate all means of production and switch to planned economy with redistribution of the wealth by public authority (or, in some traditionalist societies, neo-luddites may destroy all automation and downshift to simpler lifestyle).

You socialists go on with your myopia. History shows where you ALWAYS end up.
Now the history may turn around and show the ass to the insane right-wingers! Extreme radicals (both left and right) cannot keep power during the long time as history shows!
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March 05, 2014, 04:53:34 AM
 #468

I can't vote for the poll, because it doesn't include the choice, "Minanarchy where the unemployed have to retrain or live in poverty". Of course, we will need to be charitable and provide food via private charities.
I can admit there will be few enclosed communities for elite and engineers with meritocracy and minimum govt, but NEVER in large countries. When most people will start understanding what is happening, social unrest, revolutions and civil wars will fire around the world very quickly. The elite will try to save their asses by escaping into highly secured areas, while "have nots" will confiscate all means of production and switch to planned economy with redistribution of the wealth by public authority (or, in some traditionalist societies, neo-luddites may destroy all automation and downshift to simpler lifestyle).

Again, I think you are focusing on the wrong problem. Large countries ARE the problem. Work toward decentralization, and the rest gets solved organically.
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March 05, 2014, 05:01:34 AM
 #469

The point was made long ago the OP can't see his own shortcomings.
I have my personal position regarding this problem and you won't convince to change my mind with this market-fanatic heresy. Offer constructive solutions, then we can speak.
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March 05, 2014, 05:01:59 AM
 #470

Wtf. both questions are from the same side of the old coin.

The point was made long ago the OP can't see his own shortcomings. I wish i had deleted all my conversations in this tread its so pointless. its a non issue. 

Nah, never forget we're playing to an audience. If you don't persuade the OP, or at least make him think, then there are others. Observers.

Plus I don't think Giantdragon is a stupid man. It's never pointless unless you're just mentally masturbating.
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March 05, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
 #471

Large countries ARE the problem. Work toward decentralization, and the rest gets solved organically.
Decentralization is good, however it is completely distinct with anarcho-capitalism that some users try to advocate in this thread. Decentralized communities can choose any model, even resource-based economy.
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March 05, 2014, 05:20:29 AM
 #472

Large countries ARE the problem. Work toward decentralization, and the rest gets solved organically.
Decentralization is good, however it is completely distinct with anarcho-capitalism that some users try to advocate in this thread. Decentralized communities can choose any model, even resource-based economy.

I don't believe I've ever stated otherwise. However, anarcho capitalism IS a resource based economy.

In point of provable fact, the only way any socialist/communist system can work is in a small, enclosed system wherein all members are volunteers and agreeable to the system. For them to get on with the outside world, they'll have to trade at market. This is fine. There are many ways humans can organize themselves, and anyone with "all the answers" is straight up lying.

Coercion absolutely must be delegitimized, else the current trends will just continue. Basically, the anarchists won't get fooled again by the corporatist system. But even the most outspoken of us can't predict the future accurately. We can model it. And we are.
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March 05, 2014, 09:19:44 AM
 #473

The point was made long ago the OP can't see his own shortcomings.
I have my personal position regarding this problem and you won't convince to change my mind with this market-fanatic heresy. Offer constructive solutions, then we can speak.

What did you think of my post of the RoboCoin ATM competing with a person sitting next to the ATM trading with lower fees?

You gave no comment. While I think he found a creative way to be more competitive than the robot most pity the robot owner who is absent and just leaves his robot there. Most think the robot has the rights to trade at higher fees and the creative human doesn't.

What do you think?
I'm completely down with the hustler. My only gripe is I didn't think of it first!
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March 05, 2014, 09:51:30 AM
 #474

Coercion absolutely must be delegitimized, else the current trends will just continue.

I totally agree with you. This is the real paradigm shift to create a better society.




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March 05, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
 #475

Coercion absolutely must be delegitimized, else the current trends will just continue.

I totally agree with you. This is the real paradigm shift to create a better society.

It is not a question of delegitimizing coercion. I'd rather say, it is a question of substituting more overt forms of coercion with other, less overt and subtler forms, as it has always been through history... Cool

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March 05, 2014, 02:43:04 PM
 #476

However, anarcho capitalism IS a resource based economy.
Not even close to it!

Quote
The term resource-based economy is used by the Venus Project to describe a hypothetical economic system in which, goods, services, and information are free. Fresco's system argues that the earth is abundant with resources and that our current practice of distributing resources through a price system method is irrelevant and counterproductive to our survival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project

What did you think of my post of the RoboCoin ATM competing with a person sitting next to the ATM trading with lower fees?

You gave no comment. While I think he found a creative way to be more competitive than the robot most pity the robot owner who is absent and just leaves his robot there. Most think the robot has the rights to trade at higher fees and the creative human doesn't.

What do you think?
Read my previous messages, I wrote many times that new jobs WILL appear, but the problem is their quantity comparing to the destroyed ones.
Regarding this concrete example - human sitting near Bitcoin ATM can be useful for a short time while customers will learn how to use it.
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March 07, 2014, 09:58:36 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2014, 10:09:03 PM by giantdragon
 #477

Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, today admitted that technologically-driven inequality will be number one problem for democratic countries in the future.
He offered standards solutions like supporting startups and more education, among them also interesting thing:

Quote
Finally, there are upper limits to the number of people who can hold advanced STEM jobs. Those who lose out will need government assistance. Schmidt argued that society needs a “safety net” for those who lose their jobs so they can “at least live somewhere and have healthcare.”

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/07/googles-schmidt-says-inequality-will-be-number-one-issue-for-democracies/

My personal opinion: after attacks on shuttle buses, Google and other tech company directors really worried about consequences for them that will be if simply ignoring unemployed (like some fools write here "let them to starve"). 1917-like revolution means for them total loss of all assets and possibly personal repressions, therefore I won't wonder if capitalists will be the most active supporters to implement wealth redistribution schemes.
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March 07, 2014, 11:51:35 PM
 #478

You can keep the existing mechanism (political and economic) and ponder unconditional income, or planned economy, or you can stop having old ideas and define a new mechanism, to ensure that there is a net benefit from technology.  

Some random examples of how the existing mechanism is used to maintain wealth inequality is perpetuated are:
The meme that an Idea can be a property right and must be enforced by the law.
The meme that properties given by nature for the benefit of evolution of life, like water and land belong to the entities that claimed them first.  
The meme that education is not free, and is a corporate for profit right.
The meme that people will stop buying food and other necessities if they become relatively less expensive.
Totally agree with your 4 arguments. Nevertheless, socialist planned economy (or more advanced variant - Resource Based Economy) rejects all the ways to maintain inequality you have mentioned.
kjj
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March 08, 2014, 01:31:23 AM
 #479

Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, today admitted that technologically-driven inequality will be number one problem for democratic countries in the future.

Very interesting usage of that word.  Allow me to suggest a different sentence, a less dishonest one:

Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, today uttered his unqualified opinion that technologically-driven inequality will be number one problem for democratic countries in the future.

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I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
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March 08, 2014, 02:26:22 AM
 #480

Can you say that in another way I am not sure understand.
...
A socialist planned economy rejects the idea of inequality and the idea of intellectual property and perpetual growth, land ownership and servitude?
I personally support RBE which from the political economy spectrum can be classified as a form of socialist planned economy (however it is completely different from Stalin/Mao version).
If you have studied The Venus Project ideas you should know that the variant I have quoted above is true.
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