Technological unemployment is (almost) here

[anu]

No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.

I am not telling solely about corporations, but rather about capitalist system as a whole. Economic depressions, wars, hunger etc all create the victims displayed on your image!

It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power. Don't worry, being Fabians in all but name, they share your goals. I am just trying to tell you: Be careful what you wish. It may come true.

[giantdragon]

It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.

Nobody in his sanity will expel engineers, doctors, scientists!

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power.

I never supported "fiscal-financial complex"! My political views are close to Resource Based Economy so you should study what it is before make such assumption!

[anu]

It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.

Nobody in his sanity will expel engineers, doctors, scientists!

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power.

I never supported "fiscal-financial complex"! My political views are close to Resource Based Economy so you should study what it is before make such assumption!

It is entirely clear to me what your wishes are and that you are an idealist. Do you seriously think this is enough? Just look at Occupy - all they ever achieved was to be useful idiots for TPTB. Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign? You should know the drill: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The Fabians* will simply assimilate you, if you are lucky. That is where my "assumptions" are coming from.

There exist ways to crack this system open. Satoshi pointed a way to get into the trenches. In essence: We need to walk away from it. This is the weakness.


* I call them Fabians, because that is what they are in all but name. Strictly speaking, Fabians are a brand of British Socialists only.

[giantdragon]

Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign?

I repeat 1000th time - personally, I support full employment solution instead of BIG (unconditional income for idling)!

[anu]

Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign?

I repeat 1000th time - personally, I support full employment solution instead of BIG (unconditional income for idling)!

Oh, right, sorry, my bad. You want to employ people even though by definition there is no work - remember, the premise is tech unemployment. You should apply with Krugman. He likes this kind of Keynesianism.

[giantdragon]

You want to employ people even though by definition there is no work

There always will be some work, however it can have no economic value in the capitalist system but nevertheless useful for the humanity (e.g. improvement of the environment, fundamental science, child and elderly care).

[dogechode]

I think eventually, in the distant future, technology will reach a point where all of our basic needs (food, water, clothing, etc) can be provided at such low cost/effort by automated processes that do not require human workers, and thus that a system will evolve where everyone receives a basic subsistence of goods. Then people will do "work" to earn currency or a similar form of bartering in order to purchase luxury items. That is honestly where I see things going eventually but we are talking about in hundreds of years at a bare minimum. Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

[giantdragon]

Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

Don't forget that technology advances by an exponential curve, so it can happen much sooner than you think!

[dogechode]

Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.

[kjj]

Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

Don't forget that technology advances by an exponential curve, so it can happen much sooner than you think!

I'm almost positive that the logistic curve has already been linked in this thread.

[giantdragon]

Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.

Exponential growth of the computation power have been observed since electromechanical tabulators era, so even if Moore's law will fail something other will probably take its place!

Interesting chart:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/PPTMooresLawai.jpg

[anu]

Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.

Exponential growth of the computation power have been observed since electromechanical tabulators era, so even if Moore's law will fail something other will probably take its place!

As soon as you are talking Singularity (with a capital "S"), the discussion is ended. When it happens, all plans fly out of the window. Whatever the rules are then, they are make by the SI, not by your Central Soviet.

[giantdragon]

As soon as you are talking Singularity (with a capital "S"), the discussion is ended. When it happens, all plans fly out of the window. Whatever the rules are then, they are make by the SI, not by your Central Soviet.

About singularity you are right, but I never told I like Soviet Union's political model. Planned economy ≠ USSR. Resource Based Economy is also a form of planned economy, but there are no "Central Soviet"!

[kjj]

Resource Based Economy is also a form of planned economy, but there are no "Central Soviet"!

There was a time when Animal Farm was required reading in a lot of places...

[aminorex]

I think eventually, in the distant future, technology will reach a point where all of our basic needs (food, water, clothing, etc) can be provided at such low cost/effort by automated processes that do not require human workers... Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen ...

It could happen in as little as 5 years if it were approached systematically.  But it won't.  Even so, unemployment will rise dramatically, as it has already been doing for the past decade or so.  There is little to be gained by hiring a person.  It's much easier and more efficient to just adapt your business model to do without workers.  Employees who are clever enough to be useful are also a threat.

[thedarklight]

Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:

I can change the word "Collectivist" to "Capitalist" and post the same image!

No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.

The only company that ever killed substantial numbers of people on their own accord was AFAIK the East India Company. And that company grew so big and ugly that it turned into a government. But even they killed orders of magnitude fewer people than collectivists like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or the Holy Inquisition.

Tell that to tabacco companies, soft drink companies and others.

[deisik]

Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:

I can change the word "Collectivist" to "Capitalist" and post the same image!

No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.

The only company that ever killed substantial numbers of people on their own accord was AFAIK the East India Company. And that company grew so big and ugly that it turned into a government. But even they killed orders of magnitude fewer people than collectivists like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or the Holy Inquisition.

Tell that to tabacco companies, soft drink companies and others.

Tradeoffs everywhere! Just don't kill your customers too fast...

[anu]

Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:

I can change the word "Collectivist" to "Capitalist" and post the same image!

No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.

The only company that ever killed substantial numbers of people on their own accord was AFAIK the East India Company. And that company grew so big and ugly that it turned into a government. But even they killed orders of magnitude fewer people than collectivists like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or the Holy Inquisition.

Tell that to tabacco companies, soft drink companies and others.

You really think selling tobacco, coca based lemonade or pink slime is the moral equivalent to the Killing Fields?

[giantdragon]

You really think selling tobacco, coca based lemonade or pink slime is the moral equivalent to the Killing Fields?

And selling drones, missiles, bombers, private army services etc is considered moral by your point of view?!

[dogechode]

And what does any of this have to do with so-called "technological unemployment" lol?