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Author Topic: Network Attack on XVG / VERGE  (Read 29438 times)
samspaces
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April 05, 2018, 11:37:23 AM
 #321

Am I right in assuming that:

The network will see the longest chain in the network with sufficient nodes as the correct one, thereby validating the low difficulty blocks on the longest chain?
That would mean that the attacker has to have a lot of full nodes up and running, with which he/she privately mines.
if just one node gets the attacker's longest chain, then it should propagate to all the other nodes. depending on the nature of the exploit, it is possible attacker doesnt have any large hashrate and is just using a single node to broadcast the blocks into the network



Seriously? Quite amazing that doesn't happen more often.
jl777B
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April 05, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
 #322

Am I right in assuming that:

The network will see the longest chain in the network with sufficient nodes as the correct one, thereby validating the low difficulty blocks on the longest chain?
That would mean that the attacker has to have a lot of full nodes up and running, with which he/she privately mines.
if just one node gets the attacker's longest chain, then it should propagate to all the other nodes. depending on the nature of the exploit, it is possible attacker doesnt have any large hashrate and is just using a single node to broadcast the blocks into the network



Seriously? Quite amazing that doesn't happen more often.
most coins dont have such an exploit available
chrysophylax
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April 05, 2018, 11:50:15 AM
 #323

Looks like 2 * 15 sec, not 15 minutes.

Very funny. Are there some sort of code review in Verge?

Newbies at this thread are Verge code reviewers

hehehe ...

Ahem!

#crysx

Dogedarkdev
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April 05, 2018, 12:16:54 PM
 #324

we were going to reduce the 2 hour drift to 15 minutes, then i brazenly chose 30 seconds. 2 * 15 is 30 seconds which is our blocktime. we decided not to go with that as blocktimes do vary a bit.

we've done a complete rewrite and will be pushing it shortly and contacting our pool ops and exchanges.

i love seeing so many people who aren't even involved in verge talking about it though ;]

_///// [$XVG] ★★★★★WE ARE ON THE VERGE ★★★★★ [MULTI-ALGO] /////_
sunc
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April 05, 2018, 12:25:46 PM
 #325

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.
BillionDollarMan
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April 05, 2018, 12:30:35 PM
 #326

rip. will this mean the end of verge?

yes

P.S. Dont worry, Verge will be announcing the name of partnership on April 16th        Grin Grin                             
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-LQoskTbqc&t=15s

Marketing and partnerships are more important than tech side, dont worry, hehe

Of course but don't forget to sell before actual announcement. Buy the rumor and sell the news as always  Grin
chrysophylax
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April 05, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
 #327

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx

ocminer (OP)
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April 05, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
Merited by maleemk (5)
 #328

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx


This is totally wrong. This exploit has been used with myriad and digibyte already and can be patched successfully

suprnova pools - reliable mining pools - #suprnova on freenet
https://www.suprnova.cc - FOLLOW us @ Twitter ! twitter.com/SuprnovaPools
Froziro
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April 05, 2018, 12:33:19 PM
 #329

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx

But how can you manipulate the blockchain?
metallicelmo
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April 05, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
 #330

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx

But how can you manipulate the blockchain?

Well really attacking a blockchain could be done with a 51% attack but you need serious mining power. This way your mining rig is faster then anyone else mining at that moment and causes you to "win" all the blocks, something like that.
jl777B
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April 05, 2018, 12:40:59 PM
 #331

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx


This is totally wrong. This exploit has been used with myriad and digibyte already and can be patched successfully
A lot of misinformation that this was a 51% hashrate attack. my understanding is that it isnt based on any massive hashrate and also that not any attempt to double spend is being made, just mining lots of blocks

you seem to know far more than anybody else here about this specific attack, can you confirm it is not based on 51%+ hashrate.
cryptotum88
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April 05, 2018, 12:42:36 PM
 #332

So this attack was basically fixed, stop adding FUD.

Now talking about important matters:

will suprnova start mining xvg/lyra again? any ETA?
coinfoundry
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April 05, 2018, 12:45:43 PM
 #333

So this attack was basically fixed, stop adding FUD.

Now talking about important matters:

will suprnova start mining xvg/lyra again? any ETA?

It was not fixed correctly. The hastily commited fix was actually causing even more problems. Stop patronizing people if you don't know what you are talking about.

Miningcore.pro - Stress-Free, Reliable Crypto Mining. Period.
chrysophylax
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April 05, 2018, 12:49:16 PM
 #334

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx


This is totally wrong. This exploit has been used with myriad and digibyte already and can be patched successfully

Even after patching mate ...

With the right amount of hashrate and knowhow, you can force the blockchain to do it all over again.

#crysx

cryptotum88
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April 05, 2018, 12:51:32 PM
 #335

So this attack was basically fixed, stop adding FUD.

Now talking about important matters:

will suprnova start mining xvg/lyra again? any ETA?

It was not fixed correctly. The hastily commited fix was actually causing even more problems. Stop patronizing people if you don't know what you are talking about.

Ok DEV get the C++ code (that I have already briefly reviewed) and EXPLAIN to me WHY this not fix the issue and what are these "more" problems because this: "It was not fixed correctly. The hastily commited fix was actually causing even more problems" is a FUD answer.
abdulmad
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April 05, 2018, 01:07:12 PM
 #336

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx


This is totally wrong. This exploit has been used with myriad and digibyte already and can be patched successfully

Even after patching mate ...

With the right amount of hashrate and knowhow, you can force the blockchain to do it all over again.

#crysx

@crysx I thought this was just a timewarp attack, are you alluding that its an actual 51% attack or both for it to get this result ?
h1427096
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April 05, 2018, 01:25:03 PM
 #337

so, do I understand it correctly: attacker keeps all his coins? 15.600.000+?
chrysophylax
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April 05, 2018, 01:28:33 PM
 #338

Well. Will these actions help to solve the problem so that it does not arise in the future. To break the chain it became impossible and the blocks met the conditions.

Highly unlikely ...

Anyone that has enough hashpower and the knowledge to manipulate the blockchain in this way, CAN do this to almost any coin. Though I still believe that it could be miners that unwittingly set their farms to auto destruction mode and let loose.

No one can blame the devs AND expect them to be responsible for it when the hashpower is completely out of their hands. The devs only method of defense is to write code that will 'try' and combat this issue.

#crysx


This is totally wrong. This exploit has been used with myriad and digibyte already and can be patched successfully

Even after patching mate ...

With the right amount of hashrate and knowhow, you can force the blockchain to do it all over again.

#crysx

@crysx I thought this was just a timewarp attack, are you alluding that its an actual 51% attack or both for it to get this result ?


Yes ...

Both as a single attack - if it actually was a dedicated attack.

Some attack vectors can be patched out like OCMiner was saying, 51% can't.

Without going into too much specific detail, as an attack handbook would, the prcedure is relatively simple if you have the hashpower behind you.

- smash the network with MASSIVE hash skyrocketing the diff
- mine to a local wallet or local pool withholding submission of shares tot he network for a period of time with VERY LOW hashrate
- smash the network once again after your small time window to mine is done with MASSIVE hashrate again before the network has time to recover and submit ALL mined shares

Your chain will be the longest chain and is the one accepted into the network as the main chain, forcing all other chains to follow suit, which 'reorganizes' the blockchains that everyone else has to the new 'main' chain, orphaning all previously mined blocks.

Who has the developer knowledge and hashpower to do all this?

Let's blame RUSSIA again, considering they are buying most of the ASIC's available today Wink

(I was kidding with the above sentence ... Well - the blame part anyway) Tongue

#crysx

chrysophylax
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April 05, 2018, 01:29:27 PM
 #339

so, do I understand it correctly: attacker keeps all his coins? 15.600.000+?

Yes ...

It is 'his' chain that is now the main chain,so all the coins created in that chain are the 'legit' ones.

VERY rich MF now!

#crysx

Dogedarkdev
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April 05, 2018, 01:31:38 PM
 #340

So this attack was basically fixed, stop adding FUD.

Now talking about important matters:

will suprnova start mining xvg/lyra again? any ETA?

It was not fixed correctly. The hastily commited fix was actually causing even more problems. Stop patronizing people if you don't know what you are talking about.

https://github.com/vergecurrency/VERGE/commit/a3dd53f40aaedd28bd4d0fc720f034492f7ded81

actually it was committed, and is ready to roll.

_///// [$XVG] ★★★★★WE ARE ON THE VERGE ★★★★★ [MULTI-ALGO] /////_
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