[HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in CBTC

[AcoinL.L.C]

When the price gets so low, I wonder whether it is worth the company buying back and cancelling a few shares.

Yeah... CasinoBitcoin, do you guys have any thoughts on this?

This can be tricky... some1 would suggest company is posting bad reports to manipulate the Price to buy back cheap...

They should forego dividends for a couple months and take out some shares... make the stock less volatile while also increasing future dividends

[_mr_e]

They should forego dividends for a couple months and take out some shares... make the stock less volatile while also increasing future dividends

Wow you investors don't understand do you?  Why would they forego dividends when the own 60-75% of the 30 mil shares. Getting dividends now in BTC is vastly greater than buying shares now why because this is a USD based stock because gambling is USD based like mining.  The stock will continue to go down in BTC price as BTC gains value and the USD wagered stays the same or even grows.  So at a market cap of ~2000 BTC (~$1.3 ml USD) sounds about right to me with the amount of BTC being earned per month in profit per UsD.

Do you really think if BTC hits $3000 by end of the year CBTCs market cap will be 5x what it is now because share price will remain the same, no, why because you would have to assume BTC wagered will drop by 5x in value.

I think you forgot that btc hasn't been doing any going up for quite some time.

[AcoinL.L.C]

They should forego dividends for a couple months and take out some shares... make the stock less volatile while also increasing future dividends

Wow you investors don't understand do you?  Why would they forego dividends when the own 60-75% of the 30 mil shares. Getting dividends now in BTC is vastly greater than buying shares now why because this is a USD based stock because gambling is USD based like mining.  The stock will continue to go down in BTC price as BTC gains value and the USD wagered stays the same or even grows.  So at a market cap of ~2000 BTC (~$1.3 ml USD) sounds about right to me with the amount of BTC being earned per month in profit per UsD.

Do you really think if BTC hits $3000 by end of the year CBTCs market cap will be 5x what it is now because share price will remain the same, no, why because you would have to assume BTC wagered will drop by 5x in value.

No, I don't think you understand. At all. The valuation is a bit high for what were getting currently but I think its worth it due to it's potential (more players as BTC gets more popular).

BTC has sat at the $620 mark for several weeks. Saying BTC will go to $3,000 is childish, and is not a valid reason for hoarding btc or paying dividends instead of doing something useful. CBTC is all over the place share wise, it will go from ~5500 satoshi up to 9-10k and back down, even though the BTC price stays the same. They need to buy back shares so that it doesn't swing so much, and also increase future dividends. I would like to see them cut it down to ~28-29 million shares over the course of the next month or two, would make the market a lot more stable. Would also make future payouts a little bigger making it more attractive for long term investors.

[AcoinL.L.C]

No, I don't think you understand. At all. The valuation is a bit high for what were getting currently but I think its worth it due to it's potential (more players as BTC gets more popular).

BTC has sat at the $620 mark for several weeks. Saying BTC will go to $3,000 is childish, and is not a valid reason for hoarding btc or paying dividends instead of doing something useful. CBTC is all over the place share wise, it will go from ~5500 satoshi up to 9-10k and back down, even though the BTC price stays the same. They need to buy back shares so that it doesn't swing so much, and also increase future dividends. I would like to see them cut it down to ~28-29 million shares over the course of the next month or two, would make the market a lot more stable. Would also make future payouts a little bigger making it more attractive for long term investors.

If you look the Units Outstanding   is 30,000,000 about 22% of the company was released to be traded so 6,600,000 shares.  

2013-12-18    2013-12-19 12:00    2013-12-23 12:00    closed    2157594    0    2157594    ฿0.00012000    
2013-11-12    2013-11-14 13:00    2013-11-18 13:00    closed    900000    557594    500000    ฿0.00014000    
2013-11-11    2013-11-11 13:00    2013-11-14 13:00    closed    600000    0    200000    ฿0.00013000    
2013-09-05    2013-09-10 12:00    2013-09-13 12:00    closed    3000000    0    500000    ฿0.00018000

Now if CBTC was lucky they bought some back when the guy fat fingered at Havelock and sold some 40 BTC worth of shares at discount prices, and then they should have turned them for profits.  Also CBTC ownership could be buying back at these low prices, and not telling you (not against any laws per Havelocks postings I believe as they only stated that they where releasing the 78%) - Though I highly doubt they are doing this as I would want the BTC and not CBTC shares

But to not see that BTC is the investment vehicle no matter what the price is in USD is ridiculious, most feel $3,000 bitcoins is within a few months, and maybe they are selling now to get ready, maybe they see other investments (Monero for example), but whatever it is the price per share is going to head to 1 satoshi unless BTC fails and heads to $10.

CBTC cash in was the IPO, the reason why BTC companies sell shares, unlike a place like JD was that took commission off.  So basically by buying shares you agreed to let them manage the site and business and only own a portion.  They could sell or close tomorrow and only have to return 22% of the BTC hoard, which will ultimately be needed if they stay open when the market grows.

Right now 1.5 million people own Bitcoin - this is an extremely small market with most not even using BTC to gamble with, just gamble invest with.  We are in the transfer of wealth stage, where people are selling their bitcoins for small returns to wealthy elite (See 2nd Trust accumating BTC) for futurer larger returns as we head to mass S curve adoption.

So your options are 1) sell you shares you bought and be happy with the BTC you will have 2) Look at the investment into CBTC and other Havelock Stocks as a USD only type investment where BTC was just your methods of transmission  - This is the way CBTC presents their reports

Your not making any sense? Bitcoin is not the investment vehicle for this whatsoever. The vehicle is the success of CBTC. Bitcoin is simply the currency medium. And Saying $3,000 per BTC in a few months is absolutely ridiculous, they need to operate based on current situations, not predicting a future that no one can guess.

They need to buy back more shares so that the price isn't flying all over the place, when BTC is at the same price, CBTC should not be flunctuating between 5-10k satoshi

[chinchs]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

[runam0k]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

[casinobitco]

Hi Folks - Good conversation / debate in here. We will have some comprehensive feedback on share buy-back, and divs, early next week!

[chinchs]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

[AcoinL.L.C]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

[chinchs]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

[AcoinL.L.C]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

[chinchs]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

if that happens, this will be pumped and dumped

[AcoinL.L.C]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

if that happens, this will be pumped and dumped

I would suggest you don't purchase anything related to securities, whether that be in fiat or bitcoin, or anything else for that matter. Buying back shares makes it harder to be pumped and dumped. The stock is being pumped and dumped as is, and has been for a while.

[chinchs]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

if that happens, this will be pumped and dumped

I would suggest you don't purchase anything related to securities, whether that be in fiat or bitcoin, or anything else for that matter. Buying back shares makes it harder to be pumped and dumped. The stock is being pumped and dumped as is, and has been for a while.

Looks like you don't know what happens when nobody want to buy shares at 15k-20k for 70-80 sat dividens... good look with your pump strategy

[freemarketaussie]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

if that happens, this will be pumped and dumped

I would suggest you don't purchase anything related to securities, whether that be in fiat or bitcoin, or anything else for that matter. Buying back shares makes it harder to be pumped and dumped. The stock is being pumped and dumped as is, and has been for a while.

Looks like you don't know what happens when nobody want to buy shares at 15k-20k for 70-80 sat dividens... good look with your pump strategy

Why not suggest investors use their dividends to buy shares, which will remove some shares from the market which would support the price

[NotLambchop]

...
Why not suggest investors use their dividends to buy shares don't try to sell their shares, which will remove some shares from the market which would support the price

...that works too

[AcoinL.L.C]

They don't "HAVE" to buy anything... if they want, they can, but they already have the money from IPO and don't need anything else to run the site. The only thing that may push them to manipulate the value its a new IPO.

They own shares too, no?  Using divs to buy back and cancel shares would benefit all shareholders equally.

Doing that, they will be risking all, it would be wise to keep a reserve or invest in another thing.

Your not making any sense. How are they risking anything by buying back shares instead of paying dividends? There was what, 20-25BTC in dividends last month. Lets put that into perspective:

Current ask prices:
65-6600 satoshi

Lets say they buy back, 20BTC worth of shares. Thats 2,000,000,000 satoshis

2,000,000,000 / 6550 = 305,343 shares. Given, there are only ~15,000 shares available in that price range. It would effectively buy up all the sell orders back until its in the ~10-15k satoshi per share range. Would also make the stock a lot more stable, as the "weaker hands" would be out of a good chunk of shares.

This allows people to sell their shares for BTC at a fair price, increases share value, increases future dividends per share, and makes the stock much more stable (Going from 5k-10k satoshi isn't good.). I fail to see why they wouldn't do this.

Your argument looks like from someone who want to dump his shares... what happens if they buyback shares and they have negative results for the next 6 months? how they will face it? if that happens the value will less tan 1k and this will die. But lets work on your point of view. they buy back shares, now the share cost 15k, so you have to pay 15k to get 70-80 sat per month (%0.5 per month). The cost of the share doesn't impact the dividends, dividens come from casino results, share could cost 100 sat, but if the result of the month give 1000 BTC you would get more than the cost of the share).

Actually, I purchased a few at ~11k satoshi, and than I purchased a larger chunk at closer to 5k satoshi. Im not looking to sell anytime soon. And negative consequences? There is no possible way there could be negative consequences. At worst you miss 1 dividend payment that is ~1-2% of your total investment. Boohoo. And you clearly don't have any clue what you are talking about. Price goes up, dividends go up (Less shares = each dividend gives more BTC per share).

Buying back shares is basically a way of rewarding long term investors, while also pleasing short term investors by giving basically guaranteed buy orders at reasonable rates.

They should try and get the # of shares down 1-2 million shares over the next couple months.

if that happens, this will be pumped and dumped

I would suggest you don't purchase anything related to securities, whether that be in fiat or bitcoin, or anything else for that matter. Buying back shares makes it harder to be pumped and dumped. The stock is being pumped and dumped as is, and has been for a while.

Looks like you don't know what happens when nobody want to buy shares at 15k-20k for 70-80 sat dividens... good look with your pump strategy

Looks like you still have no clue what your talking about. With a reduction of shares the dividend would go up accordingly, you would be getting more dividend per share. If people want to sell cheaper than 15-20k (as they will), they can. If CBTC uses the dividend funds to buy back shares for a few months, there will always be buy orders for those with sell orders. People can keep selling at 10k, 15k etc, and they will be eaten up. The value of each share goes up every time a share is taken out of of the equation.

[AcoinL.L.C]

When does the monthly report come out (just curious)?

[AllInBit]

When does the monthly report come out (just curious)?

  It's usually posted by the 5th of the month.

[casinobitcoin]

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