CoinLenders, Inputs.io, Tradefortress (HACK)

[windywinter]

I just noticed that windywinter claims to have gotten 100% refund of his CL balance on november 7th.
I got curious to why he got a refund when no one else to my knowledge has.

Now, there are a few things that might explain this.
- Maybe windywinter mistook/mistyped CL balance with inputs.io balance or something.
- He's close friend with TF.
- He requested the refund early enough, before TF had realized that he just could not refund everyone who requests it.

So, windywinter, if you don't mind answering my questions, it would be great!

1) Can you confirm that you actually mean CL balance, and not inputs.io balance?
2) Are you close friend with TF or do you have any other reason to get "special treatment"?
3) You made the post on Nov. 7th, which still was quite early in this whole process, when did TF send the transaction?

I just got my full balance in CL out (over 20 BTC). Although transaction hasn't been confirmed yet, I now declare that TF has earned my full trust.

A PM is sent to windywinter requesting him to have a look on this post.

I was a little busy during the recent 3 days so I stopped following the news regarding to CL. And I'm not a native English speaker so I'll skip everything in this thread and jump directly to answer these questions addressed to me. If there were anything else I should know please brief me later and I'll happy to add my opinion.

1. Yes, I mean CL balance. I do not use inputs.io except for deposit and withdraws on CL.
2. I think I haven't got the right to regard myself as a friend of TF's. Actually, I know little about TF except that he was active on this forum and a lot of people trusted him. I even do not know his nationality before this incident.  If there were any reasons for me to get a "special treatment", I believe they are beyond my knowledge.
3. TF sent the transaction (a0f289b2e8b2d2f255aef460f5e77459c4f75dbba03db213f1f0ead0e8ce1c3d) on Nov. 7th and it got confirmed 2 days later.

Actually, there is a little more details I'd like to add. I got 26.04301688 BTC at the moment I sent the request and 2 withdraws of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC which never show up in inputs.io account. TF sent me 27.54 BTC and I took it as "full amount". TF sent the transaction on Nov. 7th, however, because he sent some other transactions that day without fees and those transactions' output were used as inputs for this transaction, this transaction stayed unconfirmed for a long time, which is enough for blockchain.info to delete it from their database. So TF sent another transaction of 26.04301688 BTC on Nov. 9th. When I asked about the 2 missing withdraws, TF said those coins would come back to my CL account in the coming days with the CL update. I think this means that CL will restore to normal and continue to operate.

Well, the end of my story is that those unconfirmed inputs of the first transaction (27.54 BTC) got confirmed first and caused a double spending on the 2nd transaction (26.04301688 BTC), and the first transaction got confirmed a short while later. So I got 27.54 BTC in the end, which I still regard as "full amount".

If there's anything more you would like to know, please send a PM. I'll still be a little busy in the coming few days but I'll find the time to answer them.

[windywinter]

I just noticed that windywinter claims to have gotten 100% refund of his CL balance on november 7th.
I got curious to why he got a refund when no one else to my knowledge has.

Now, there are a few things that might explain this.
- Maybe windywinter mistook/mistyped CL balance with inputs.io balance or something.
- He's close friend with TF.
- He requested the refund early enough, before TF had realized that he just could not refund everyone who requests it.

So, windywinter, if you don't mind answering my questions, it would be great!

1) Can you confirm that you actually mean CL balance, and not inputs.io balance?
2) Are you close friend with TF or do you have any other reason to get "special treatment"?
3) You made the post on Nov. 7th, which still was quite early in this whole process, when did TF send the transaction?

I just got my full balance in CL out (over 20 BTC). Although transaction hasn't been confirmed yet, I now declare that TF has earned my full trust.

A PM is sent to windywinter requesting him to have a look on this post.

1) CL balance.
2) No. I believe I had zero communication with windywinter prior to this.
3) The payment was made before it was decided to delay withdrawals instead of using limited funds to do first come first serve.

Well. It took me half an hour to write my previous post and in the mean time TF posted another post, so I think I'll have to add something more.

Actually I have contacted TF once before this incident. At that time inputs.io was suffering DDoS and one of my withdraw from CL got missing.

[ninjaboon]

12 NOV 2013 update:
ninjaboon:75.23241838:0:U

[mccoyspace]

Contrats to Windywinter. I'm glad you received coins.
I put my request in via email on Nov 6 and received a template 'please wait' email.
So there was some ad hoc actions going on from the get-go.

[Xrim]

I also put in a request on the 7th stating that I wished to recive my funds on CL. I was denied and got the standard email reply.

/X

[xan_The_Dragon]

Update,
It appears he refilled the cl balance
Quote from: TradeFortress on November 08, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: InwardContour on November 08, 2013, 12:37:53 AM
this is what i thought from the beginning. it was clear that some funds were still able to be moved out of inputs.io for quite some time after "the hack." TF continuing to accept deposits while letting others (and himself) cash out, and this goes on for weeks until the pyramid collapses? TF deserves a scammer tag unquestionably.
No. I haven't moved coins out of Inputs personally. The coins I did "move out" are (i) routine signature ad payments, (ii) wallet refill of coinchat/coinlenders, (iii) CL associated payments and (iv) coins moved to reduce hot pocket amount that are now being used to repay users.

Everyone who was aware of the hack previous to the public announcement were not Inputs users.
coinlenders might get there balance

[C10H15N]

I wouldn't count on it though.

While staying in contact is  laudable, I do not believe TF is being entirely forthcoming with how bad the situation really is.  Expect the worst, hope for the best, and if you have to be surprised, be surprised you get anything back at all.

Don't get me wrong.  I am a business man and a retail investor. I don't hate TF, I am disappointed.  He is bright, articulate, driven, and arrogant - good qualities in an entrepreneur.  He could have been the Warren Buffet of Bitcoin, instead it looks like he's going to be the Bernie Madoff. 

[MAbtc]

I wouldn't count on it though.

While staying in contact is  laudable, I do not believe TF is being entirely forthcoming with how bad the situation really is.  Expect the worst, hope for the best, and if you have to be surprised, be surprised you get anything back at all.

Don't get me wrong.  I am a business man and a retail investor. I don't hate TF, I am disappointed.  He is bright, articulate, driven, and arrogant - good qualities in an entrepreneur.  He could have been the Warren Buffet of Bitcoin, instead it looks like he's going to be the Bernie Madoff.  

Indeed, the lack of details and the cryptic nature of disclosures, and the subtle shadiness of now implementing an ID verification policy when name/ID was never required to use inputs.io..... this doesn't look good. I really feel for people who are now forced to choose between receiving a % of their money and giving their ID up to a possible scammer who has also shown himself incapable of keeping data secure. And CoinLenders? My goodness..... this looks to become a shitstorm, I think. I am so sorry to all affected.

[stenkross]

This might be a clue:

Quote from reddit on nov. 7'th:

Someone in another thread was saying there was someone who sold over 4000BTC bitcoins all at once below market value.
Might be a good place to start the investigation.

The annoying part is, when I read it I immediately knew that I have also seen that comment that vortexas is refering to!
And now when I try looking/searching/browsing for it I cannot bloody find it.

Anyone good at searching on reddit is welcome to give it a try.

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q2law/inputsio_hacked_and_shutdown_4100_btc_stolen/cd8ov7g

[stenkross]

Ok, I found the reddit link I was talking about earlier: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q2le2/psa_if_you_have_any_mtgox_usd_left_this_is_a/

Basically they say that a ~4k sell wall was put up on Mt. Gox. about 5 days ago.
I'm not sure how that matches up with the movement of our coins on the blockchain. Is there even a theoretical possibility that it could be our coins?

Is it possible to contact Mt. Gox, and see if they "own" that public key? Of course, they must not discolse the person behind it, just a simple yes/no if they have the private key behind the known public key.
This is probably a longshot though ...

[dwdoc]

Ok, I found the reddit link I was talking about earlier: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q2le2/psa_if_you_have_any_mtgox_usd_left_this_is_a/

Basically they say that a ~4k sell wall was put up on Mt. Gox. about 5 days ago.
I'm not sure how that matches up with the movement of our coins on the blockchain. Is there even a theoretical possibility that it could be our coins?

Is it possible to contact Mt. Gox, and see if they "own" that public key? Of course, they must not discolse the person behind it, just a simple yes/no if they have the private key behind the known public key.
This is probably a longshot though ...

I emailed Mark Karpeles the CEO of MtGox on 11/7/13 about this.

Dwdoc, Nov 07 13:51 (JST):
The online wallet service Inputs.io was hacked recently for 4100btc.
There was a recent sale of $1million btc for 266.90 each at your exchange. Probably a coincidence but please take note of the identity of the seller in case you are contacted by investigators. Thanks.

[DumbFruit]

The 4000btc sell mentioned here;

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q2le2/psa_if_you_have_any_mtgox_usd_left_this_is_a/

Would have to match this, in order for them to be our coins (Correct me if I'm wrong.);

http://blockchain.info/tx/d9fd404d60cc65e77a0ab460524d112f1a851430ed431b5aa6840bdf9c42355f

2013-11-07 20:01:02

A Mt.Gox employee should be able to tell us if they recieved bitcoins from that transaction very quickly.

[tvbcof]

Uh.. Mt.Gox, employee, very quickly .. in the same sentence ? Only if a Mt.Gox employee fucked up everything very quickly, otherwise you might be thinking about some other service.

That is one complaint I've not had against Mt. Gox.  They've handled everything except my wire quickly.  Even the 'we expect several weeks' lie came quite rapidly.

I also would not expect Mt. Gox to blather about the identity of the 4k BTC customer to jerk-offs on bitcointalk.org.  I would, however, expect them to cooperate with the Australian police quickly and completely.  So TF's non-sense reason for not reporting the crime is even more laughable.  Anyone who believes that is a complete chump, and those who profess to believe it are probably sorry-ass sock puppets.

[dwdoc]

The 4000btc sell mentioned here;

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q2le2/psa_if_you_have_any_mtgox_usd_left_this_is_a/

Would have to match this, in order for them to be our coins (Correct me if I'm wrong.);

http://blockchain.info/tx/d9fd404d60cc65e77a0ab460524d112f1a851430ed431b5aa6840bdf9c42355f

2013-11-07 20:01:02

A Mt.Gox employee should be able to tell us if they recieved bitcoins from that transaction very quickly.

I sent that blockchain information to MtGox and added it to my warning about the stolen coins preceding the 11/6/13 $1 million sale of bitcoins for the 266.90 ask price.
I don't think they will release the information to us but they might file it away somewhere in case there is an investigation.

[manort]

While staying in contact is  laudable, I do not believe TF is being entirely forthcoming with how bad the situation really is.  Expect the worst, hope for the best, and if you have to be surprised, be surprised you get anything back at all.

I agree that all we can do is hope for the best.

[drinkmorecoffee]

I've tried to contact the support e-mail at CoinLenders but have received no response as of yet.  The problem is, in an effort to keep some hold on my anonymity, I signed up with an e-mail address from hidemyass, which I didn't realize until just a couple days ago only works as an inbox.  That is, I can't send a note from that address, I can only receive e-mails sent there.

So I guess I have two questions.

1) Some of you are talking about requesting refunds from CL, but I see no mechanism to do this beyond the support e-mail.  Further, TradeFortress has remarked this weekend that everyone will receive a mass e-mail and to just sit tight.  Are you guys sitting tight and waiting for him to contact you or is there another method of contact that I'm missing?

2) Am I screwed because I can't e-mail directly from the address I used to set up the account initially?  

[ChrisJ]

0.2996BTC Inputs.io no response to my email.

I have to say that the system of payouts is very confusing. We were told if we should only email support if we had more than 1 BTC, which has left those with less wondering what to do.

The Coindesk article was also not helpful as at the bottom it seems to imply that those less than 1 BTC can expect a full payout.

[DumbFruit]

0.2996BTC Inputs.io no response to my email.

Updated to here.

Thanks dwdoc for getting that email out so soon, I feel bad for blowing it off even though it probably is just a coincidence.

ChrisJ, you will probably get most of your deposit back.

TradeFortress, thank you for clarifying what was going on with WindyWinter. (Please send me some GPG signed documentation!)

drinkmorecoffee, yep we are mostly just waiting at this point. Ever been bungee jumping? We're at that moment just after the cord breaks.

[dwdoc]

The current tallies suggest the amount stored at inputs.io was a pittance compared to coinlenders.  If TF couldn't afford to fully reimburse the inputs accounts it bodes ill for prospects at coinlenders.

[DumbFruit]

I just put all the data into an excel spreadsheet. (Should have done that from the outset.)
Precisely 20 bitcoins have been reimbursed to Inputs.io users, according to the limited data that was given to me. Which means nothing, but I was surprised.