CoinLenders, Inputs.io, Tradefortress (HACK)

[davecoin]

Coinlenders

davecoin:10.05859733:0:U

[gog1]

I wonder can depositor who made deposits posts hack (ie. Oct 26) legitimately make a fraud claim even assuming that it's a genuine theft / hack.

[HeRetiK]

I don't think it does yet make sense to sue TF. If anything it would only prolong the process of making things right and cost both you and TF money and time. Time and money which is better used in resolving this situation within the community, rather than with lawyers and lawsuits. It's been 2-3 weeks since the incident, which is a rather short timeframe to handle a situation with more than 4000 BTC disappearing. Give TF some time to find possible solutions and talk options. Should there be no proper solution for this situation at all, then legal actions are still a possibility.

Just my 2 Satoshis. I've got a few coins stuck in Coinlenders as well, which I might add to the list later on. To be honest I'm kicking myself a bit over it, but eh. Let this be a lesson in why 1) Regular banks have insurance 2) greed ruins everything (25% interest in our case, stealing 4100 BTC in the thieves case) and 3) why Bitcoin is decentralized.

Seriously, look at the past few months. Bitfloor, btct.co, Bitfunder, Coinlenders, Inputs.io... single points of failure which, guess what, failed. And that's why decentralization is important. Rabble rabble rabble

[DumbFruit]

I understand your concern, but if we just let this keep going like it is the trail is going to get colder, and the coins are going to get further out of reach as prices rise long-term.
Hopefully we'll see a correction in the Bitcoin market, but we can't rely on chance, and we can't rely on TradeFortress for a number of reasons..

1.) He lied about his age.
2.) He lied about his security measures. (There was no cold wallet.)
3.) He didn't have 2FA on his email, despite telling everyone to use 2FA.
4.) He was using Linode despite it being hacked previously.
5.) He allowed people to deposit into Inputs.io after the hack and then paid older users with the funds. (Embezzlement.)
6.) He refuses to disclose any information on his operations.
7.) He refuses to report the theft of over $1,000,000 worth of bitcoins to law enforcement.
8.) He wont listen to or consider any solutions proposed by his creditors.
9.) Even though his site was stolen from almost a month ago, he has not formulated any short term or long term plans to compensate his users that he can present openly.
10.) He's told us that his debtors are being crushed by the bitcoin exchange rate despite assuring us that he would not lend money to investors that have anything but minor exposure to exchange rate fluctuations.

Many users have told him exactly what he needs to do in order to restore faith with his creditors. He has done exactly none of those things.

[Kouye]

It is likely that this self-moderated thread is set up by a
sock-puppet of 'TradeFortress' himself, and many of the
other newbie users who expouse the genius of TF are also most
likely sock-puppets.

The OP deletes posts which call into question TF and only
retains those where one of the sock-puppets express awe at his
greatness.

Don't be an idiot people.  This kind of crap is common on
bitcointalk.org.  We've seen it and many other ploys over the
years.

Never trust a self-moderated thread.  They are almost always
scams.

============

op deleted my post in this thread.

clear TF shill.

Deleted posts show up in your mailbox.  Just re-post it from time to time when you feel like it.  By happy accident of fate, that will keep it near the bottom where more people will see your message

Just so you know, I also got a couple deleted from this thread, but I'm considering DumbFruit just wants to avoid noise in order to maintain the OP list, rather than being a shill. For now, at least.

[gotpetum]

Let's do this!

1.) Did he? I certainly didn't hear that in the interview everyone's talking about.
2.) I think there was a cold wallet, wasn't there? There were other cases where the hot wallet had to be refilled before withdraws could be processed.
3.) Eh.
4.) Eh. Lots of services were hacked previously.
5.) Maybe he wasn't really sure the extent of the theft and if it could be easily absorbed.
6.) That's scary, but why disclose it to a bunch of people threatening to sue you?
7.) Why would he? So they can arrest him for running afoul of thousands of regulations? So they can beat up a bunch of third parties in a failed attempt to track down the BTC?
8.) We don't really know if he's listening a lot. And frankly, a lot of the ideas don't event warrant acknowledgement.
9.) Yeah, the communication sucks.
10.) I think the idea is their collateral (AM) is devalued, the borrower's investments didn't work out, AND they can't buy the BTC to repay the loan. I don't think they were just shorting BTC.

I understand your concern, but if we just let this keep going like it is the trail is going to get colder, and the coins are going to get further out of reach as prices rise long-term.
Hopefully we'll see a correction in the Bitcoin market, but we can't rely on chance, and we can't rely on TradeFortress for a number of reasons..

1.) He lied about his age.
2.) He lied about his security measures. (There was no cold wallet.)
3.) He didn't have 2FA on his email, despite telling everyone to use 2FA.
4.) He was using Linode despite it being hacked previously.
5.) He allowed people to deposit into Inputs.io after the hack and then paid older users with the funds. (Embezzlement.)
6.) He refuses to disclose any information on his operations.
7.) He refuses to report the theft of over $1,000,000 worth of bitcoins to law enforcement.
8.) He wont listen to or consider any solutions proposed by his creditors.
9.) Even though his site was stolen from almost a month ago, he has not formulated any short term or long term plans to compensate his users that he can present openly.
10.) He's told us that his debtors are being crushed by the bitcoin exchange rate despite assuring us that he would not lend money to investors that have anything but minor exposure to exchange rate fluctuations.

Many users have told him exactly what he needs to do in order to restore faith with his creditors. He has done exactly none of those things.

[tvbcof]

Just so you know, I also got a couple deleted from this thread, but I'm considering DumbFruit just wants to avoid noise in order to maintain the OP list, rather than being a shill. For now, at least.

Well, he leave plenty of 'noise' in place when it is from users (or whatever) who talk about how much they want to keep supporting TF and send him even more money.  Just sayin'...

[DumbFruit]

1.) Did he? I certainly didn't hear that in the interview everyone's talking about.

Yep, his profile showed "28", he's obviously changed it now.

2.) I think there was a cold wallet, wasn't there? There were other cases where the hot wallet had to be refilled before withdraws could be processed.

If there was, not a dime worth of Coinlenders depositor's coins were in it.

5.) Maybe he wasn't really sure the extent of the theft and if it could be easily absorbed.

More likely that he wanted to get as much depositors in to pay off old debt (Ponzi scheme), but it didn't work out when the price of btc skyrocketed and a ton of people started withdrawing.
Evidence suggests that's exactly what he was doing for more than two weeks after the hack.

6.) That's scary, but why disclose it to a bunch of people threatening to sue you?

I wasn't threatening to sue him at all until after I read his last "update".

7.) Why would he? So they can arrest him for running afoul of thousands of regulations? So they can beat up a bunch of third parties in a failed attempt to track down the BTC?

Because it's the best chance of recovering the coins. Not reporting the theft isn't going to protect him from regulatory problems.

10.) I think the idea is their collateral (AM) is devalued, the borrower's investments didn't work out, AND they can't buy the BTC to repay the loan. I don't think they were just shorting BTC.

It was TradeFortress' responsibility to select loans according the the criterion that he laid out to us, the creditors. Low risk, fully covered by collateral (115%), resistant to exchange rate fluctuations, and/or the debtor is highly trusted with a long history.

He failed, and now we're suppose to just sit back and trust him while he handles default, and we need to just be happy with the answers he deigns to pass our way.

[ChaosFox]

I found an address owned by TradeFortress which contains 286.602 BTC.

https://blockchain.info/address/14nBt8WVBmJ3ichp6m3eGs3BTzmLDyYYTz
Proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=111264.msg1208642#msg1208642

I asked him to pay his debts from that money or I'd publicize this information. He laughed at me.
Why is he holding bitcoin when he's got so many people waiting for him to pay?

It's clear he does have liquid assets. He's just unwilling to spend them (Yet).

My patience is running short, and so is that of many of us screwed over by this "hack." I'm starting to change my stance over not pursuing legal action and while I comparatively had very little in, others had a lot to lose and will be more than willing to extend this to its final conclusion.

I'm curious as what were his exact words, though. Was he just shamelessly not worried about using that money to pay out his debt?

[MAbtc]

I found an address owned by TradeFortress which contains 286.602 BTC.

https://blockchain.info/address/14nBt8WVBmJ3ichp6m3eGs3BTzmLDyYYTz
Proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=111264.msg1208642#msg1208642

I asked him to pay his debts from that money or I'd publicize this information. He laughed at me.
Why is he holding bitcoin when he's got so many people waiting for him to pay?

It's clear he does have liquid assets. He's just unwilling to spend them (Yet).

My patience is running short, and so is that of many of us screwed over by this "hack." I'm starting to change my stance over not pursuing legal action and while I comparatively had very little in, others had a lot to lose and will be more than willing to extend this to its final conclusion.

I'm curious as what were his exact words, though. Was he just shamelessly not worried about using that money to pay out his debt?

Unfortunately for TradeFortress, the incredibly opaque nature of his handling this whole fiasco is only putting off the inevitable. It's beginning to look like legal action will be necessary, and will happen. I'd be surprised if some weren't already pushing for investigations at the regional level. His smugness throughout sure has not helped my attitude towards him.

[ChaosFox]

Here's a suggestion to DumbFruit: You could append to the OP of this thread any addresses with money that's confirmed to belong to TradeFortress, so we also have an approximate record of the BTC he does have.

[JTrain_51]

Nice Thread thanks for the information!

Recommend you delete those numbers around the info because now we know you copied and pasted this from wikipedia

[DumbFruit]

Here's a suggestion to DumbFruit: You could append to the OP of this thread any addresses with money that's confirmed to belong to TradeFortress, so we also have an approximate record of the BTC he does have.

How would I prove that they are TradeFortress' coins?

Recommend you delete those numbers around the info because now we know you copied and pasted this from wikipedia

Who copied what from wikipedia?

[ChaosFox]

Here's a suggestion to DumbFruit: You could append to the OP of this thread any addresses with money that's confirmed to belong to TradeFortress, so we also have an approximate record of the BTC he does have.

How would I prove that they are TradeFortress' coins?

The address maraoz posted for example, it is reasonable to think it belongs to TradeFortress (Not enough to bring to court, but at least as a reference), along with the coins in it. It'd be tricky to confirm unless TF came and said "Yes, this is my address" and signed that message with its private key, but it's something.

[MAbtc]

Here's a suggestion to DumbFruit: You could append to the OP of this thread any addresses with money that's confirmed to belong to TradeFortress, so we also have an approximate record of the BTC he does have.

How would I prove that they are TradeFortress' coins?

I suppose proof is elusive. However, the fact that the post came from his account, and that he was collecting coins from people into it, suggests that he controls it. Does it not? Maybe I'm missing something.

[ace207]

Coinlenders

ace207:16.68791006:0:U

[manort]

Hi all,

In the light of a lack of a clear statement from TF stating his commitment to repay his depositors to the best of his ability, it is getting harder to write posts like this.

However, I always assumed it was not going to be possible for TF to be able to get all his debtors to pay him back immediately. It also makes sense to me that he would be trying to collect a significant pool before beginning to distribute. If this is the case, then I am willing to give him the room that he needs to work and be grateful that I get anything back.

Personally, I don't think that TF should be making his full accounts public just yet. It does seem that he is trying to hide his own poor judgement (single point of failure, lending to businesses with exchange risk, etc), and may be trying to hide the fact that CL might have been in trouble even before the hack given that ASICMINER shares had plummeted and his debtors had been apparently defaulting.

Even these things I can forgive as it was me who decided to invest in a business that had "this is not real" plastered all over it, run by a guy who would not reveal his true identity. I didn't expect a JP Morgan level of competence (oops).

What is getting harder to forgive is after failing to send out the mass email as promised last week, there has been no new timeline for when we can expect an accounting of the situation and, most especially, a statement that he is committed to recouping and distributing to the depositors as many bitcoins as possible. At this point, I am not expecting everything back, but every last bitcoin would help.

To TF: There is a lot of anxiety out here and this hack has created a lot of hardship for a lot of your depositors. Please respect the trust we placed in you and communicate clearly with us what is going on and what you intend to do. It is the responsible thing to do.

To other depositors and people who have relevant information about TF, Coinlenders, and the Inputs hack, I am begin to research and article which will be posted on my website bitcoinwarrior.net. If you have any information that you think should be included, please contact me at editor@bitcoinwarrior.net.

[DumbFruit]

I suppose proof is elusive. However, the fact that the post came from his account, and that he was collecting coins from people into it, suggests that he controls it. Does it not? Maybe I'm missing something.

Oh I see, sorry I hadn't looked much into it. I could also post the address that I had transferred to when I transferred into Inputs.io, if we could get enough of those addresses we could start to paint a clearer picture.
Why not?

It seems like the consensus in the community is that legal action and requesting transparency is a hindrance to TradeFortress, but if what he did was an honest mistake, then he has everything to gain by getting a third party to oversee what he's doing.
It would help him avoid mistakes, insulate him from legal action, and ease the doubts of his creditors.

He doesn't have to trust me and do everything I request to the letter, but he should at least be willing to have a civilized discussion, and be willing to answer some basic questions.

But anyway, I have some questions for TradeFortress;
1.) When did you first notice that the hot wallet was empty?

2.) How and when did you first realize your Linode administrative account was reset?

3.) Could you post the password reset logs for your Linode administrative console, and tell Linode employees that they may verify them for whoever asks?

4.) Do you have, and could you post, the logs of what the hacker did while he was logged into the Linode administrative console?

5.) Were the logins from 101.0.79.18 into your Linode administrative console, that you posted, the only time the hacker accessed it?

[halfawake]

Hello everyone.
In light of TradeFortress' abysmally inadequate update, I am planning to begin legal proceedings against him.
I am an American, so if you are also American CoinLenders depositor and want to join me in a Class Action lawsuit against TradeFortress please email me here;
USA.Legal.CoinLenders@gmail.com

Legal fees will be distributed over all who join the lawsuit. If you didn't have 10btc or more than it probably wont be worth the cost to join us, but it depends on how many people want to join.

After speaking with a lawyer two things are clear;
1.) It's going to be expensive.
2.) Most lawyers don't know anything about btc.

If you know of an honest lawyer that has some relevant experience in foreign exchange lawsuits, or some other relevant area, please let me know.

I will make sure Australian authorities have been notified of the theft.

@The Crybabies
If I deleted your post it wasn't because I necessarily disagreed, it was because it didn't add anything to the conversation. If you don't like it, go to the mountain of other threads that are inundated with useless information.

If you're serious about a lawsuit, you should post this in the Legal forum rather than leaving it buried in here.  I've got almost 5 bitcoins in Coinlenders that as of now, I'm assuming are lost forever. 

[DumbFruit]

I have emailed and called around a half a dozen lawyers, but I will make a new thread there as well. The main reason I wanted to post it here is I think it's one of the most likely places I can find other Americans that can join me in the litigation.

Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336217.new#new

Edit: I can no longer pursue a civil suit, as his debt with me has been settled.