[ANNOUNCE] paccoin a new SHA256D coin is being introduced

[oleksii777]

Tell me how will the old coins be exchanged for new ones. Will there be a mobile version of the wallet? On the computer is a very heavy purse. I hope the developers will release an updated version of the wallet.

[i8aPie]

I totally posted badcode I just noticed, typing too fast, sorry:

Code:

if (pindexNew->bnChainTrust > bnBestChainTrust && pindexNew->nHeight > nBestHeight)

Wanted to fix before anyone tried to discredit for b/s reasons.

I'm not familiar with the crypto tech, does this mean that who has the highest pile of coins gets the staking power? IE., large holder gain pos coins and such coins over write those pos of smaller coins owners?

Very likely, a large holder will get the next 1-3 block rewards corresponding to the large chunks of ( and higher-weighted) coins assigned for the POS, immediately after he/she starts staking (minting), but once rewarded, the large portions of coins will no longer be eligible for staking until next time of days or weeks of holding periord for that portion of coins to be used again. There should be less input for staking as time passed, to the point that if you (" with the other wallet") just start staking at that point, you might have a higher staking weight to get the next block.

It is a matter of chance; therefore, your chance of getting rewards immediately starting staking is much, much lower, but even if both start at the same time, there might be a time say one hour later, the one having only, say 1/10 of total coin balance of the other wallet client, would have almost the same amount of coin weight to get the next reward which you are supposed to get anyway.

It might takes longer if there are many, many higher coin-weight wallet starting the staking during the time you are in.

As you can see, the one with extremely small amount of coin most not get a reward for quite a few months but by the time, you would have much higher amount of holding-time and staking power.  

If I understand correctly, that people with big pile will have lower coins/wattage (which is fair per POS), but is the main concern like this?
1. Smaller miner starts at height 1000, he's digging away
2. Big miner finds the block at 1000 and 1001
3. Smaller miner is now mining 1001, which has been mined by the big miner
4. So the smaller miner is always doing catch up

My apologies for not being a smart person...

I think its worse than this.  I will start with I'm not a Dev, but what they are talking about appears to be visible in the explorer.

I think it appears that large Coin holders are overwriting MANY blocks.  Not allowing many mined/staked coins to count.  I once noticed my stake sometimes appears then disappears with a "generated but not accepted" flag.  I assume this may have been what was happening.

I think you can see it in the Explorer..
http://paccoinexplorer.com/

Just look at the blocks in order. At some point they get a posted block that is earlier than the previous. If the block with the older Block Number is Confirmed to the chain the chain loses ALL blocks that were after that block and already posted to the chain. 

Example, I just scrolled down the last 300 blocks..  Check these out..

2625860 came before 2625810.  Because the 2625810 was posted by a large coin holder it RESET the chain to that point.  Consequently dropping ALL blocks from the previous 2625810-2625860.

Here are the recorded blocks:

This one is the last of the orig 2625810-2625860 chain (and now block is not confirmed)
http://paccoinexplorer.com/block/000000000028c00c9e96d42aaaaad7396054f382ca29f2051fd912bc738e09be

Then 2625810 comes along and RESETS the chain back 50 BLOCKS... 
http://paccoinexplorer.com/block/e6122643109608381a8486d0fac2af9b0fbeb8212020f411dddd1a009bdedede

Seems those blocks are then lost..

Like I said, I'm no dev.  But this does appear to be a pretty big issue. 

A chain that changes isn't really a chain?

[DOGEbubble]

...

Thanks a million for the help, its working for me, just couple of more questions.

Do i need to leave my computer on all the time for the mining?

How to do backup for my wallet, what happen if my computer broke or window get corrupted.

Thanks

please check the office FAQ site: https://paccoin.net/paccoin-pos-faqs

This image file would show answers (#6) to you questions. Note that Red color words are my interpretations; not "official" release.  




 

[breakcrypto]

I totally posted badcode I just noticed, typing too fast, sorry:

Code:

if (pindexNew->bnChainTrust > bnBestChainTrust && pindexNew->nHeight > nBestHeight)

Wanted to fix before anyone tried to discredit for b/s reasons.

I'm not familiar with the crypto tech, does this mean that who has the highest pile of coins gets the staking power? IE., large holder gain pos coins and such coins over write those pos of smaller coins owners?

Very likely, a large holder will get the next 1-3 block rewards corresponding to the large chunks of ( and higher-weighted) coins assigned for the POS, immediately after he/she starts staking (minting), but once rewarded, the large portions of coins will no longer be eligible for staking until next time of days or weeks of holding periord for that portion of coins to be used again. There should be less input for staking as time passed, to the point that if you (" with the other wallet") just start staking at that point, you might have a higher staking weight to get the next block.

It is a matter of chance; therefore, your chance of getting rewards immediately starting staking is much, much lower, but even if both start at the same time, there might be a time say one hour later, the one having only, say 1/10 of total coin balance of the other wallet client, would have almost the same amount of coin weight to get the next reward which you are supposed to get anyway.

It might takes longer if there are many, many higher coin-weight wallet starting the staking during the time you are in.

As you can see, the one with extremely small amount of coin most not get a reward for quite a few months but by the time, you would have much higher amount of holding-time and staking power.  

If I understand correctly, that people with big pile will have lower coins/wattage (which is fair per POS), but is the main concern like this?
1. Smaller miner starts at height 1000, he's digging away
2. Big miner finds the block at 1000 and 1001
3. Smaller miner is now mining 1001, which has been mined by the big miner
4. So the smaller miner is always doing catch up

My apologies for not being a smart person...

I think its worse than this.  I will start with I'm not a Dev, but what they are talking about appears to be visible in the explorer.

I think it appears that large Coin holders are overwriting MANY blocks.  Not allowing many mined/staked coins to count.  I once noticed my stake sometimes appears then disappears with a "generated but not accepted" flag.  I assume this may have been what was happening.

I think you can see it in the Explorer..
http://paccoinexplorer.com/

Just look at the blocks in order. At some point they get a posted block that is earlier than the previous. If the block with the older Block Number is Confirmed to the chain the chain loses ALL blocks that were after that block and already posted to the chain. 

Example, I just scrolled down the last 300 blocks..  Check these out..

2625860 came before 2625810.  Because the 2625810 was posted by a large coin holder it RESET the chain to that point.  Consequently dropping ALL blocks from the previous 2625810-2625860.

Here are the recorded blocks:

This one is the last of the orig 2625810-2625860 chain (and now block is not confirmed)
http://paccoinexplorer.com/block/000000000028c00c9e96d42aaaaad7396054f382ca29f2051fd912bc738e09be

Then 2625810 comes along and RESETS the chain back 50 BLOCKS... 
http://paccoinexplorer.com/block/e6122643109608381a8486d0fac2af9b0fbeb8212020f411dddd1a009bdedede

Seems those blocks are then lost..

Like I said, I'm no dev.  But this does appear to be a pretty big issue. 

A chain that changes isn't really a chain?

TL;DR: This wallet has some major flaws and needs a hark fork to correct them.

^ This is exactly right and the problem I was explaining -- the chain is constantly forking which is a huge problem. The forks are caused by a flaw in the SetBestChain logic. PoS blocks of a lower height (aka. blocks that should be less trustworthy and rejected) are being accepted as valid and erasing valid PoW, PoS, and transactions. The net effect is that work is being lost / wasted while older PoS account are benefiting from a reduced coin supply and the ability to wipe out, in some cases, hours or work by other miners. Worse, transactions are being lost into the void. If you scan the block chain manually you can find plenty of transactions that were sent on one chain, then overwritten, and are currently sitting in the chain with 0 confirms despite being valid transactions because they were eaten on a fork. I've seen some for well over a million PAC get lost to the void -- which is a MASSIVE problem.

Compounding the issue is another flaw in the wallet which won't let you recoup those TX I noticed (I've been experimenting for a few days with it). Anyway, I'll post a change set to the two repositories on github and if it's not accepted I'll post a hard fork here for anyone who doesn't want their transactions, stake, and work subject to being overwritten and lost.

Hopefully I can get that submitted today, trying to wrap up some other work first.

[mybuddylucifer]

In that case i'm glad none of my transfer got lost in the void...

Scary stuff

[tousika]

I want you to respond properly with a horrible formula that seems to be lost

[mybuddylucifer]

I want you to respond properly with a horrible formula that seems to be lost

Could you elaborate?

[wilej]

Did someone steal my coins mined since yesterday? 
They where confirmed in my wallet and then suddenly they where gone.
http://paccoinexplorer.com/address/AmxaG6CpFUQZVCSagZJjzhM83YRQA4Ekoc

[breakcrypto]

I want you to respond properly with a horrible formula that seems to be lost

I want you to respond properly with a horrible formula that seems to be lost

If you're asking for a TX that got lost, here's one:

http://paccoinexplorer.com/tx/4e87df90dd266cc5a16157391c249d095079ff4df387e9e309c88ec6e3a50935

Notice that the confirmations for the TX are positive but the block:

http://paccoinexplorer.com/block/00000000004f5e7c967228957e3b790cea178c4a7fb3d95938a3a0ed414fbef0

is 0 confirmations -- because the chain was overwritten by a PoS block with a lower height mined later.

Type: gettransaction 4e87df90dd266cc5a16157391c249d095079ff4df387e9e309c88ec6e3a50935 into the wallet and check the confirmations, it'll show 0.

That was 68,000 pac someone tried to transfer that is sitting lost in the void. It was valid and confirmed and then 'erased' but because the chain is messed up the TX will sit with 0 confirms because it was pooled from the shared mempool never to be picked up and confirmed again.

That's what is happening all over the chain write now. Clearly documented on the explorer.

[i8aPie]

Did someone steal my coins mined since yesterday? 
They where confirmed in my wallet and then suddenly they where gone.
http://paccoinexplorer.com/address/AmxaG6CpFUQZVCSagZJjzhM83YRQA4Ekoc

Yeah, I think the chain reset over them.  It's what we were discussing:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=331394.msg28186144#msg28186144

[breakcrypto]

Did someone steal my coins mined since yesterday? 
They where confirmed in my wallet and then suddenly they where gone.
http://paccoinexplorer.com/address/AmxaG6CpFUQZVCSagZJjzhM83YRQA4Ekoc

Read back a few pages, I explain what is happening to your blocks -- the chain is constantly forking due to a bug in the PoS logic and the way the SetBestChain logic is working.

[LEILO]

Hey Dev, why don't you open a PAC/USDT market on Cryptopia? There's one on Yobit. I guarantee that if you do, those waiting for the doge & litecoin markets to reopen will go to the USDT markets in the meantime and volumes & price will increase again to former levels or higher.

USDT is a awesome idea. I think he is coming out with some news this week...

[breakcrypto]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

[breakcrypto]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

Exchanges need to stop accepting PAC right now until this is corrected. They're being scammed. Someone is running this scam as quickly as possible -- luckily, it's easy to pull those wallets.

I suggest a hard fork and ban for all of the people who were dumping/double spending. If the devs REALLY want to spawn a new coin, then they need to clean this up, ban any wallets that were involved, and get the trust of the exchanges back. I've emailed all of them.

If there is no action taken shortly, ignore this coin and move along. It's in a bad state right now.

[mybuddylucifer]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

https://imgur.com/a/0KOFB

Exchanges need to stop accepting PAC right now until this is corrected. They're being scammed. Someone is running this scam as quickly as possible -- luckily, it's easy to pull those wallets.

I suggest a hard fork and ban for all of the people who were dumping/double spending. If the devs REALLY want to spawn a new coin, then they need to clean this up, ban any wallets that were involved, and get the trust of the exchanges back. I've emailed all of them.

If there is no action taken shortly, ignore this coin and move along. It's in a bad state right now.

Can they generate enough to impact the doge market value?  I'm getting worried with my doge investment since PAC>>Doge>>BTC, doge gets the first hit

[breakcrypto]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

Exchanges need to stop accepting PAC right now until this is corrected. They're being scammed. Someone is running this scam as quickly as possible -- luckily, it's easy to pull those wallets.

I suggest a hard fork and ban for all of the people who were dumping/double spending. If the devs REALLY want to spawn a new coin, then they need to clean this up, ban any wallets that were involved, and get the trust of the exchanges back. I've emailed all of them.

If there is no action taken shortly, ignore this coin and move along. It's in a bad state right now.

Can they generate enough to impact the doge market value?  I'm getting worried with my doge investment since PAC>>Doge>>BTC, doge gets the first hit

If it's not address immediately, I suspect it'll collapse the coin. I mean, it should at least. The chain is in complete disarray -- there's no stability at all.

[mybuddylucifer]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

https://imgur.com/a/0KOFB

Exchanges need to stop accepting PAC right now until this is corrected. They're being scammed. Someone is running this scam as quickly as possible -- luckily, it's easy to pull those wallets.

I suggest a hard fork and ban for all of the people who were dumping/double spending. If the devs REALLY want to spawn a new coin, then they need to clean this up, ban any wallets that were involved, and get the trust of the exchanges back. I've emailed all of them.

If there is no action taken shortly, ignore this coin and move along. It's in a bad state right now.

Can they generate enough to impact the doge market value?  I'm getting worried with my doge investment since PAC>>Doge>>BTC, doge gets the first hit

If it's not address immediately, I suspect it'll collapse the coin. I mean, it should at least. The chain is in complete disarray -- there's no stability at all.

Please let us know if the devs or exchanges posted any response to your email.  Much appreciated!

[breakcrypto]

Everyone should go look at the chain right now, it's bouncing around like mad. I've just watch it reset multiple times. If you scan the debug log for SetBestChain you'll see it flipping forward and then back -- go check, don't take my word for it.

I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but if so, you're being scammed. Double spends are completely possible by a trust attack -- just like a 51% attack. In case you were curious, yes, that's the SAME way a 51% works. Run the chain up a certain height, flip it back, erase the TX, run the chain forward, flip it back, etc.

People are playing with the chain I think.

I've seen the same thing on Unify Coin's chain 5 months back when it just switched to POS but that coin's chain has long stabilized. Nothing on Paccoins source code has changed. And there's over 400 connections so it can't be because of lack of stakers. Are people staking part of the time instead of 24/7?

It looks intentional to me. As soon as I made that post, the frequency increased dramatically. You can see it on the explorer in the last few hours, the PoS blocks are reverting several minutes constantly. The chain goes a few steps forward and then flips back a few moments later -- it's barely budged in the last 2 hours.

I'll give the devs a little bit more than then I'm hard forking it and I'll post the code. Trying to close out work for the day. I have a source tree with the needed changes but I haven't had time to post it to git. I'll fork from the repo so it's easy for everyone to see the changes. I'm also going to bump the protocol version from 60070 to 60080 so it'll disconnect bad clients.

If the new fork takes; I'm going to ban the suspect wallets unless everyone is staunchly opposed. Voice your opinion or I'm just going to stick with my plans. I'm happy to let the previous devs handle this (no idea who they are though and their discord is down) but if not, I'll do it. I can also setup a new coin and reverse merge it if other want. Dash / dagger coins are easy enough to spin up too.

I hate scammers -- they make the crypto market shit. I remember this crap from years ago and had hoped it was gone. But when there's money to be made there'll always be some asshole trying to take if from others.

Thoughts?

P.S. I can only do this part time, but I'm happy to help when I can. I definitely have time to patch this bug  -- since I've already done it, lol.

[Jaycee_nl]

@Breakcrypto: what can i do, or where should I look to get evidence that you are not spreading FUD?
So far i heard of no problems. And even if there were: the new chain will start very soon.

[breakcrypto]

@Breakcrypto: what can i do, or where should I look to get evidence that you are not spreading FUD?
So far i heard of no problems. And even if there were: the new chain will start very soon.

Look at the explorer, it's all over there or any of my previous posts. I documented it all there. Set the blockexplorer ( http://paccoinexplorer.com/ ) to 100 last posts. Look at the block heights. Here's a screenshot I just took off the explorer:

(Block height: 2626477 rolls back to 2626415 -- time reverts and the last 62 blocks 'disappear').

See how the height and time goes backwards, that's someone forking the chain and rolling it back (if it were done with hashing power, that'd be a 51% attack). It's a glitch in the trust logic. You can verify that, as I've explained a few pages back, by opening up your debug.log (if you're on linux use:

Code:

tail -f /[datadir]/debug.log | grep SetBestChain

That'll output the chain updates. The height should always go up, but it doesn't. When it flips backwards, look at the trust score and the hash value. You'll notice it's a full hash which indicates a PoS block (you can paste the block hash into the explorer to see it on the web if you want), and you'll notice the height went down but the trust value went up -- that's the flaw in SetBestChain.

Posting the fork now, I'll compile it and post links if anyone wants them. If not, to each their own. I'd like PAC to succeed again but not like this.

And from now until March is just letting scammers scam. If that's what people want, have at it. It's not what I want from from the crypto world though.