[LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump)

[notthematrix]

Except I didn't.

Yes, you did. In black and white. Your denial of the obvious makes you even more dismissable.

Full quote please of what I said then please? Then explain it.

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

Also, in all places I have made very clear that I'm against it, so let's not have that one levelled against me. All I've been doing is trying to stop FUD being lapped up.

Ten pages and still no evidence of what the op implied and still a few people coming here, writing something angry, and not taking the time to look at the facts.

FUD is the ONLY wapon a secret service has..... against the masses.
those silly LEAKS.... please the only thing leaking here is DOLLARS IN TO BITCOIN!
 http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btcnCNY#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv and all OUTSIDE the US!

[notthematrix]

Bitcoin Traitors.



 We need Real Bitcoin Leadership.


 There I said it.

 I dare you to retaliate.

 In fact a quadruple dare you to do so!

 Be forewarned I don't cower like you. Nor do I back down. Nor do I waver. Nor am I a Traitor to anything at all.

 And I am tenacious as a mad 200 pound starving Rottweiler on the hunt! Got it? GOOD.


 1st: Secure Bitcoin.org = doing your jobs. Don't do that and you already proved your not up to the tasks at hand. Already you failed that too. Now this. What next?


 YOUR FIRED.



Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

WAKE UP!

Bitcoin dont move! they just change adress after trade!
So what is the point of taint tracing all coins are tainted within no time!!!!!!
there will be no new bitcoins when tainted , its like dollars with coke traces!
even worse , bitcoins cant be replaced!
The more users the more tainted , and dont forget 1 bitcoin can be hold by 100.000.000 address at the same time!
So CLEAN BITCOIN IS A ILLUSION!!!!!


The only wapon the US can use is FUD!!!!!
why THEY THE USA  FREAK OUT http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btcnCNY#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
chineese are killing the dollar!!!!!

[piotr_n]

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play the game - I have already bet all my money on it

[callem]

Satoshi would neither have proposed nor supported any form of black/red listing.

The determination of what constitutes illegal activity and enforcement thereof is in the realm of national governments, not payment systems. And certainly not a payment system that has no borders or national affiliation.

Each country has laws and mechanisms to deal with what it considers to be illegal. Bitcoin does not belong to any nation, and definitely not to any single foundation, regardless of what it calls itself.

Bitcoin belongs to its user-base alone, no one else can or should speak for it.

[ImI]

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play this game - I have already bet all my money on it

i smell cold war thinkin

[piotr_n]

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations that have been enslaving us for the last century using the weapon of a money creation monopoly.
But we have just built our own weapon and we are not giving it up! It has a power of 5PH/s, growing every day, and no WMDs they own are a thread to us anymore.
They can assassinate a person, they can genocide a nation - but they cannot break Bitcoin.

[qwk]

It is not helpful to keep this information quiet and shutting people out while asking them to use Bitcoin.

I fail to see how 2707 posts by Mike Hearn, some of them (months ago even) precisely about the issue at hand (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157130) correlate to keeping information quiet and shutting people out.

You fail to see any possible flaw whatsoever with the Bitcoin Foundation.  They do some good things and things that are not so good.  However, the cheerleaders like you make me suspicious.  I will provide an explanation (I am sure you will ignore the explanation and continue cheerleading but here it is

You again.
First of all, as you may clearly see in the above quotes I wasn't saying anything about not seeing flaws in the Foundation, but instead I was explicitly talking about the wrong assumption that the person Mike Hearn is keeping "information quiet" and that the people over at the Foundation were "shutting people out". Both assumptions lack any evidence whatsoever. Last I checked, forum access over at the Foundation was around 2 USD per month. Mike Hearn had more than 2707 posts over here at bitcointalk compared to 238 posts on the Foundation's forum.

Basically, I've proven you wrong, and now you won't admit it.

-Keeping the discussions board unavailable to the public its a major issue.  The reply that is always given is that it will cause all this noise if anyone is allowed to post.  the usual reply to that is top make them read only.  No reply is ever given to that request and people keep claiming the discussion boards are public.  The Foundation keeps claiming they are transparent when they obviously are not.  This is a failure of Jon Matonis because he is not upholding the mission of the Foundation.

Definitely, the decision to keep the Foundation's forum a "gated community" may be questioned. We had a long discussion about the pro's and con's of it, and we may yet make up our minds about wether or not we'd like to change that. I personally am opposed to "opening the gates", and now that there are already hundreds, if not thousand of posts over there that were made under the assumption that this was a private conversation, we cannot simply breach the contract and disrespect the privacy of the Foundation's members, as the OP did.

Disrespect for the privacy of others is probably opposed to the basic beliefs of a large majority of Bitcoin's strongest supporters, which is why I personally despise such an act of barbarism.

In the end, I guess the Foundation will have to have another discussion about read-only-access, but given the amount of uninformed trolling and the witch hunt over here, the decision against write-access for everyone was probably wise.

-As for Mike Hearn, I contacted him directly about Inputs.io and the fact that it was promoted by the administrator of this site.  I suggested he make announcements somewhere else and no longer support Bitcointalk.org because it was defrauding new users with the ads.  he told me to "go away" and hire my own programmer to fork the code.

That's another, completely unrelated matter and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. You may be right, you might also be lying, I don't know, and personally, I don't even care, since this has obviously nothing to do at all with the Foundation or Mike's role over there.

[ffssixtynine]

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play the game - I have already bet all my money on it

What on earth are you on about?! Are you on drugs?

Nothing you said there makes sense, nor does it have any relevance whatsoever for anything I've said which is asking people to take an evidence based approach and not one based on FUD, extremism and insults.

It's like arguing with religious extremists about how old the earth is!

[qwk]

Or an alternative, true, foundation?

No, no centralization please. Existing members of the BF should consider withdrawing their membership.

The opposite is probably true.
The Foundation is a tiny organization.
You want something changed over there?

Join and make change happen.

That's the way political progress happens, not uninformed rants on a pseudonymous forum like bitcointalk.org.

[ffssixtynine]

The determination of what constitutes illegal activity and enforcement thereof is in the realm of national governments, not payment systems. And certainly not a payment system that has no borders or national affiliation.

Each country has laws and mechanisms to deal with what it considers to be illegal. Bitcoin does not belong to any nation, and definitely not to any single foundation, regardless of what it calls itself.

Bitcoin belongs to its user-base alone, no one else can or should speak for it.

I agree 100% with all the above except for the very last bit.

If you don't have anyone speaking for it, it won't survive (except maybe as a black market currency). You can't pretend national governments don't exist, certainly not if you want mainstream or business adoption. At the very least you need people educating them otherwise you'd quickly get whacky and ill thought out legislation.

[qwk]

This is why we need alternative blockchains. Bitcoin is going mainstream.

Yup this is why Litecoion, in case bitcoin ever gets fucked up.

Why was I expecting that? You can't let an opportunity to hype Litecoin pass by, can you?
Nah, that's okay, but the problem is not solved by just using Litecoin.
You might actually escape blacklisting coins by chain-hopping from one alt-coin to another, though.

[ffssixtynine]

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations that have been enslaving us for the last century using the weapon of a money creation monopoly.
But we have just built our own weapon and we are not giving it up! It has a power of 5PH/s, growing every day, and no WMDs they own are a thread to us anymore.
They can assassinate a person, they can genocide a nation - but they cannot break Bitcoin.

You are absolutely mental. Tin foil hat stuff.

[OleOle]

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations, that have been enslaving us for the last century using a weapon of a monopoly of the money creation.
Today we have our weapon and we are not giving it up.

What a lot of nonsense. The Cold War was indeed a war, on many levels, and was fought by proxy all over the globe. The involvement of the USSR and the USA in Afghanistan is a case in point. So was the metaphorical throwing of movies, hamburgers and Coke over the Wall.

Don't try to spin your petty Marxist drivel that you've been enslaved by corporations, that is a sheer fabrication. Next you'll be telling us that you are the 'vanguard of the people'.

Gimme a break... sheesh.

 

[qwk]

I would not donate to an effort led by Gavin.  I do not believe that he has the mindset to lead a unique and important effort such as Bitcoin.

And you're probably right. I don't think Gavin believes that either.
That's precisely the reason for the Foundation, to take some of the burden of "leading the Bitcoin effort" from him.

[piotr_n]

Nothing you said there makes sense, nor does it have any relevance whatsoever for anything I've said which is asking people to take an evidence based approach and not one based on FUD, extremism and insults.

Evidence?  I am pretty sure that we have enough of evidence here - you are just playing stupid pretending that we don't understand what we are reading.

The leaks from your cartel's closed forum are much more than I need for an evidence - and I haven't even read through half of it..
Let's take a random quote for instance - enough of an evidence for anyone capable of using his brain:

Requiring an exchange to hand over all addresses would sort of work, but it's not ideal - we can do much better if we design systems ourselves

Suddenly it turns out that Mike Hearn is nont only a Google employee - he and his friends have ambitions to become policemen, judges and punishers at the same time.
Well thanks guys for your generous offer, but we really don't need you to take care of our coins.
Just do us a favour and get the fuck out of our sight, before you make us to throw up right on your white shoes.

[foggyb]

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations that have been enslaving us for the last century using the weapon of a money creation monopoly.
But we have just built our own weapon and we are not giving it up! It has a power of 5PH/s, growing every day, and no WMDs they own are a thread to us anymore.
They can assassinate a person, they can genocide a nation - but they cannot break Bitcoin.

Flying active nuclear weapons around 24/7 is 'not an actual war'? No, they never set off a nuke in anger (which was a stroke of luck really, and for which we should all be extremely grateful).

[ffssixtynine]

Evidence?  I am pretty sure that we have enough of evidence here - you are just playing stupid pretending that we don't understand what we are reading.

The leaks from your cartel's closed forum are much more than I need for an evidence - and I haven't even read through half of it..
Let's take a random quote for instance - enough of an evidence for anyone capable of using his brain:

That'll be the cartel that 1) I'm not a member of, 2) that you can join for the grand sum of $20 and 3) That have discussed the same issues on this very forum.

Requiring an exchange to hand over all addresses would sort of work, but it's not ideal - we can do much better if we design systems ourselves

Awesome - you've taken a quote out of context which is talking about the technical side and what's possible, and ignored absolutely everything else. You even admit you haven't read half of it, you just made up your mind.

You're a compete tin foil hat, you don't know your history, you throw around words like nazi without actually knowing what one is (and since my family was persecuted directly by them you can shove that one where the sun don't shine)... You're a crazy person!

[piotr_n]

Evidence?  I am pretty sure that we have enough of evidence here - you are just playing stupid pretending that we don't understand what we are reading.

The leaks from your cartel's closed forum are much more than I need for an evidence - and I haven't even read through half of it..
Let's take a random quote for instance - enough of an evidence for anyone capable of using his brain:

That'll be the cartel that 1) I'm not a member of, 2) that you can join for the grand sum of $20 and 3) That have discussed the same issues on this very forum.

Requiring an exchange to hand over all addresses would sort of work, but it's not ideal - we can do much better if we design systems ourselves

Awesome - you've taken a quote out of context which is talking about the technical side and what's possible, and ignored absolutely everything else. You even admit you haven't read half of it, you just made up your mind.

You're a compete tin foil hat, you don't know your history, you throw around words like nazi without actually knowing what one is (and since my family was persecuted directly by them you can shove that one where the sun don't shine)... You're a crazy person!

Yeah, yeah...
Once again, man: please, spare me your bullshit and get the fuck out of my face.

You are not bitcoin developers, nor you are representing any - you are solely the enemies of bitcoin.

[qwk]

Disrespect for the privacy of others is probably opposed to the basic beliefs of a large majority of Bitcoin's strongest supporters, which is why I personally despise such an act of barbarism.

This is the kind of stuff why people don't want to associate themselves with the Foundation.  They say they are transparent and everyone should expect their posting to be public as Jon Matonis said in another thread.  Now you are claiming it is "barbarism."  You also discuss all this "we" stuff when referencing the Foundation.  As explained to you many times you can't have mass adoption by shutting people out , calling them trolls, and all the other ridiculous stuff that comes out that Foundation at times.  

Why would the Foundation be about mass adoption at all?
I'm calling the disrespect for the privacy of others an act of barbarism, absolutely.
It's opposed to practically anything the (assumed) majority of Bitcoin users stand for.
It would make little Satoshi cry.

What's worse is calling this invasion of my privacy "LEAKED", willingly seeking the association with and thereby diminishing admirable efforts like Wikileaks or Edward Snowden's deeds.

All this for boosting the OP's ego, who did not even think for a moment about actually looking at what he "leaked" and falsely assumed that this was relevant, new information, which, as proven in this thread, it wasn't.

The rest of your reply is more of your Foundation shilling.

The Foundation Shilling, cool name for an Altcoin

Seriously, call me a shill as you will, I joined the Foundation mostly to help pay Gavin's salary.
I think that's a worthy cause, just the same as I thought a donation to bitcointalk.org was, or my efforts for transcriptions of LetsTalkBitcoin, or my bounty for m-of-n-escrow, and the list goes on...
I have yet to see anything like donating to a worthy cause from you.


(edited a few times because of f*** up quotes and stuff, sorry)

[corebob]

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations, that have been enslaving us for the last century using a weapon of a monopoly of the money creation.
Today we have our weapon and we are not giving it up.

What a lot of nonsense. The Cold War was indeed a war, on many levels, and was fought by proxy all over the globe. The involvement of the USSR and the USA in Afghanistan is a case in point. So was the metaphorical throwing of movies, hamburgers and Coke over the Wall.

Don't try to spin your petty Marxist drivel that you've been enslaved by corporations, that is a sheer fabrication. Next you'll be telling us that you are the 'vanguard of the people'.

Gimme a break... sheesh.

 

I believe he does have a point about corporations.
The IT giants, among others, have paid a pretty penny to get their own clown elected for president