GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[Kupsi]

Investing in bitcoin is like jumping over a cliff in a foggy night, without seeing the other margin.  It cannot be a rational decision, only a statement of blind faith, that only fools would do.

LOL

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[nioc]

A frustrating aspect of bitcoin is that there is essentially no data about the "bitcoin economy".  Every indicator that we would need to predict the price and evaluate its investment potential is hidden by the anonymity and globality of the protocol and by the private and unregulated character of the companies.  There are practically no public audits, market statistics, open policies, ... 

Sounds like derivatives to me. 

What's in this black box?  It's AA rated, trust me.

2007

[Vlad2Vlad]

Barry is working to get the BIT listed here: http://www.otcmarkets.com/marketplaces/otcqx

Barry will deliver and I expect it to happen soon. And when it happens... To the moon 

Bingo.

I think Barry held off on the application to grab these Bitcoins from the auction so it may not be until January.

But yes, I don't get why people don't get why this and coin will create a massive spike in the price.

People would no longer need to understand the tech or secure the coins or trade on scammy exchanges.  They would simply buy Bitcoin like they would any shares of stock.  This simplicity would make Bitcoin instantly more popular with millions of investors.

Add to that $8 trillion in the US alone from IRA and 401K account which would now be able to legally buy BTC.

Do you guys think all those money managers are gonna sit and not buy any of the biggest new tech since the Internet? 

Impossible.

Even if 1% of that $8 trillion goes into Bitcoin we will easily get at least a $10,000 price.

But I think we will get a much higher price next year as hundreds of billions go into Bitcoin and quickly, as money managers and investors race to be the first ones in ahead of the big [ETF] wave.

[JorgeStolfi]

Barry is working to get the BIT listed here: http://www.otcmarkets.com/marketplaces/otcqx
Barry will deliver and I expect it to happen soon. And when it happens... To the moon  

Bingo.

That "Open Transparent and Connected"  thing looks even less transparent than SMBIT...

EDIT: Do you have a source for that claim about Barry looking at OTCMarket?

Add to that $8 trillion in the US alone from IRA and 401K account which would now be able to legally buy BTC.

Bitcoin lost ~50% of its value in 2014.  No one can (or wants to) explain why it skyrocketed in 2013 or why it crashed in 2014.  No one can give any solid argument why it should go up in the future.

Anyone who recommends people to put their retirement money into bitcoin should be thrown in jail.

[Newbie1022]

Barry is working to get the BIT listed here: http://www.otcmarkets.com/marketplaces/otcqx

Barry will deliver and I expect it to happen soon. And when it happens... To the moon 

Bingo.

I think Barry held off on the application to grab these Bitcoins from the auction so it may not be until January.

But yes, I don't get why people don't get why this and coin will create a massive spike in the price.

People would no longer need to understand the tech or secure the coins or trade on scammy exchanges.  They would simply buy Bitcoin like they would any shares of stock.  This simplicity would make Bitcoin instantly more popular with millions of investors.

Add to that $8 trillion in the US alone from IRA and 401K account which would now be able to legally buy BTC.

Do you guys think all those money managers are gonna sit and not buy any of the biggest new tech since the Internet? 

Impossible.

Even if 1% of that $8 trillion goes into Bitcoin we will easily get at least a $10,000 price.

But I think we will get a much higher price next year as hundreds of billions go into Bitcoin and quickly, as money managers and investors race to be the first ones in ahead of the big [ETF] wave.

That's less than irrational. They said in their press release and twitter feed that the coins will be distributed to the bidders that they amalgamated into the syndicate which, by the way, does not even include them. They just gathered together a bunch of "finance experts" to bid -- they just played middle man (and probably took a fee for it, too).

So, this isn't just nuts. It's Bull trolling scam artistry.

[JorgeStolfi]

[ SecondMarket ] said in their press release and twitter feed that the coins will be distributed to the bidders that they amalgamated into the syndicate which, by the way, does not even include them. They just gathered together a bunch of "finance experts" to bid -- they just played middle man (and probably took a fee for it, too).

Yes, 1% from any winning bid, IIRC.  That must be at least 150'000 USD in fees -- presumably, for a couple of days' work by a couple of people.  Not bad.

[Vlad2Vlad]

That's less than irrational. They said in their press release and twitter feed that the coins will be distributed to the bidders that they amalgamated into the syndicate which, by the way, does not even include them. They just gathered together a bunch of "finance experts" to bid -- they just played middle man (and probably took a fee for it, too).

So, this isn't just nuts. It's Bull trolling scam artistry.

You're clueless - it's a fact that secondmarket was also a bidder themselves [as part of the syndicate] and will therefore, keep a portion of those Bitcoins won at the auction.

Try adding 2 plus 2....it's an amazing feeling.

[JorgeStolfi]

You're clueless - it's a fact that secondmarket was also a bidder themselves [as part of the syndicate] and will therefore, keep a portion of those Bitcoins won at the auction.

They explicitly said that they did NOT bid themselves.  Look for their statements to CoinDesk.

Doing so would be terribly unethical because they would know the bids of all the people who entered the syndicate.

Where are you getting those "facts" of yours? 

[Vlad2Vlad]

They explicitly said that they did NOT bid themselves.  Look for their statements to CoinDesk.

Doing so would be terribly unethical because they would know the bids of all the people who entered the syndicate.

Where are you getting those "facts" of yours? 

They did not bid themselves [separately] because they were also part of the syndicate bids.  Bidding separately would have been a conflict of interest because they would be bidding against the pool, their own customers. 

Pooling ~$20 million together - INCLUDING their own money is completely ethical as the bids are made with the entire pool so everyone wins their fair share should any bids succeed.

You obviously don't understand why Barry Silbert put the syndicate together in the first place.

Hint:  It wasn't to get a petty hundred grand.  lol 

[NotLambchop]

...There have been countless instances where people were skeptical and laughed at the idea of modern technology supplanting the old technology. It happens time after time.
...

What does this  have to do with Bitcoin--as "modern" as a spark gap Morse code radio in the age of smartphones?

[JorgeStolfi]

They did not bid themselves [separately] because they were also part of the syndicate bids.  Bidding separately would have been a conflict of interest because they would be bidding against the pool, their own customers. 

Pooling ~$20 million together - INCLUDING their own money is completely ethical as the bids are made with the entire pool so everyone wins their fair share should any bids succeed.

"Facts" are things that really happened.  Things that one just makes up are not facts.

Barry said that they did not enter bids of their own.  That he said so is a fact.

The syndicate members wanted more than 120'000 BTC.  It would be pointless to enter all of them in the auction, so SecondMarket picked the highest bids that until they had 50'000 BTC, and said sorry folks to the rest.  Even so, they got only 48'000 BTC, so some of the chosen members too walked away without coins.  If SM had entered the auction themselves as syndicate member or on their own, and won, those members who didn't get anything would think that SM picked their bid price after seeing theirs, so as to outbid them.  That is why any bidding by the syndicate organizer, within the syndicate or outside it, would be terribly unethical.  That is a fact too.

Perhaps SM did enter their own syndicate.  That would mean that they cheated on the other members.  I have no reason to trust Barry's honesty, but neither any reason to believe they did that.

You obviously don't understand why Barry Silbert put the syndicate together in the first place.
Hint:  It wasn't to get a petty hundred grand.  lol 

Draper bought 30'000 coins at 600 $/BTC.  Why do you think he did not want to go for everything again?  Barry pocketed 150 grand, he got ...  Lol.

Why do you think that Barry created SMBIT, or the Winkles want to create COIN?  Hint: if one has 100'000 coins, how could one sell them without crashing the price?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Why do you think that Barry created SMBIT, or the Winkles want to create COIN?  Hint: if one has 100'000 coins, how could one sell them without crashing the price?

Dude, are you shitting me?

You think the winklevoss twins are starting an ETF to be able to dump their 110,000 BTC?

Hahahaahaa.

Dude, wake up, that 110,000 BTC is used as needed liquidity to start the fund.

The twins will make billions - BILLIONS in fees alone from the ETF [AND ON TOP OF THAT] they will get to keep ALL of their Bitcoins too.  

It is their ETF fund - they get a cut of all the fees.  Imagine the number of massive buys once this fund launches.  Every mutual fund in the world will be able to legally buy BTC at that point.

I predicted last year the ETF was a done deal and I explained why.  I predicted last year ( in September) BTC would match gold price within one year and it did.  I predicted they would switch to bits and explained why.  Trust me on this ETF thing - it's gonna change everything [again].

I cannot believe so many people have no idea what this ETF really means and where Bitcoin's price is gonna go once it launches.

Next year $10,000 per Bitcoin will be considered cheap; hence the need for "bits" as the common household name when referring to Bitcoin.

Buy all you can now - BIT should go to OTC very soon (January at latest) and COIN is very close behind.

[Kupsi]

EDIT: Do you have a source for that claim about Barry looking at OTCMarket?

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-ceo-barry-silbert-talks-big-picture-vision-bitcoin-investment-trust/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/with-a-bitcoin-etf-risk-isn-t-virtual-1410120108
(Search google for the link, and you'll be able to read the whole article.)

[farfiman]

.......
But yes, I don't get why people don't get why this and coin will create a massive spike in the price.

People would no longer need to understand the tech or secure the coins or trade on scammy exchanges.  They would simply buy Bitcoin like they would any shares of stock.  This simplicity would make Bitcoin instantly more popular with millions of investors.

Add to that $8 trillion in the US alone from IRA and 401K account which would now be able to legally buy BTC.

Do you guys think all those money managers are gonna sit and not buy any of the biggest new tech since the Internet? 

Impossible.

Even if 1% of that $8 trillion goes into Bitcoin we will easily get at least a $10,000 price.

But I think we will get a much higher price next year as hundreds of billions go into Bitcoin and quickly, as money managers and investors race to be the first ones in ahead of the big [ETF] wave.

Apparently most people don't think this will happen, hence the current price.

[BitAddict]

596 XBT bought yesterday

Nice to see investors keep buying, even after the auction.

[Slaphead]

Draper bought 30'000 coins at 600 $/BTC.  Why do you think he did not want to go for everything again?

He had some very competitive bidders to compete with according to this article.

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-syndicate-bidders-real-winners-bitcoin-auction/

O’Connor said the drop in auction participation is no indication of more bearish attitudes, as bidders needed to place competitive bids to edge out the competition.

He concluded:

“I think you had a lot of very serious folks come to the table that had a strong interest in participating and are very bullish on bitcoin in general. That I think is a very serious statement to say.”

[JorgeStolfi]

EDIT: Do you have a source for that claim about Barry looking at OTCMarket?

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-ceo-barry-silbert-talks-big-picture-vision-bitcoin-investment-trust/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/with-a-bitcoin-etf-risk-isn-t-virtual-1410120108
(Search google for the link, and you'll be able to read the whole article.)

Thanks!  

Note that the first article was written in March, when the BTC price chart did not look as bad as it does now.

"This summer" is already gone. Did they open that bitcoin exchange?

According to the first article, only those SMBIT customers who have held shares for more than 12 months will be allowed to offer them for sale on OTCQX.  As people buy those shares, SMBIT will NOT buy more BTC.  

At best, I see the following effects of the OTCQX offering on the BTC market:

(1) when those old clients opt to sell their SMBIT shares on OTCQX instead of liquidating them, SMBIT will not have to sell the corresponding BTC.  It is not clear whether the people who buy at OTCQX will be able to liquidate them at SMBIT immediately, or whether they too will have to wait for one year before doing so.

(2) if the general public rushes to buy SMBIT shares on OTCQX, so that the shares sell at a premium over their face value, other large investors will want to buy shares from SMBIT (which will cause them to buy BTC) in order to sell them on OTCQX.  However those big investors will have to wait for one year before doing so.

I cannot imagine why someone would want to put their money into such a trap. But I cannot imagine why someone would invest in bitcoin either.  Oh well.

The Winkles presented a talk at the Money 20/20 conference recently.  Did you see the reviews?

And I sill would like to know whether that alleged letter from the SEC to SMBIT indeed exists, and what it says.

[Kupsi]

"This summer" is already gone. Did they open that bitcoin exchange?

No.

The Winkles presented a talk at the Money 20/20 conference recently.  Did you see the reviews?

Yes, it was a bad presentation.

And I sill would like to know whether that alleged letter from the SEC to SMBIT indeed exists, and what it says.

Me too. This is the latest tweets from Barry regarding the BIT:

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/530175117939056640
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/532381475900227584

[FPCN]

596 XBT bought yesterday

Good to hear that.

[cr1776]

Draper bought 30'000 coins at 600 $/BTC.  Why do you think he did not want to go for everything again?

He had some very competitive bidders to compete with according to this article.

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-syndicate-bidders-real-winners-bitcoin-auction/

O’Connor said the drop in auction participation is no indication of more bearish attitudes, as bidders needed to place competitive bids to edge out the competition.

He concluded:

“I think you had a lot of very serious folks come to the table that had a strong interest in participating and are very bullish on bitcoin in general. That I think is a very serious statement to say.”

I think the "drop in auction participation" is also inaccurate (not your statement, but the reports of it in the news).  Second Market had a syndicate of 104 people (http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-syndicate-bidders-real-winners-bitcoin-auction/) so since they count that as one buyer, it changes the statistics dramatically.