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Question: Should BitBet refund snackman's 10 BTC? (and all other victims' losses)
Yes - 212 (74.6%)
No - 72 (25.4%)
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Author Topic: BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC)  (Read 58146 times)
snackman (OP)
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November 21, 2013, 07:28:08 AM
 #61


I'd argue that your regular presence in the BitBet IRC for 10 months or more associates you more than the average user.


It isn't BitBet IRC, it is #bitcoin-assets. The BitBet people just hang out there...

Fair enough - the point is that they are "The BitBet people".

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November 21, 2013, 07:30:34 AM
 #62

I'm also confused by this. Double spending is not a concern, with proper precaution (see this reddit thread). Rudimentary game theory makes it abundantly clear that I wasn't attempting to double spend a losing bet.


Also double spending is like, super easy when you don't include a tx fee. I do it quite often when the network won't pick up a transaction I need confirmed fast.

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November 21, 2013, 07:34:05 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2013, 07:51:21 AM by snackman
 #63

I'm also confused by this. Double spending is not a concern, with proper precaution (see this reddit thread). Rudimentary game theory makes it abundantly clear that I wasn't attempting to double spend a losing bet.


Also double spending is like, super easy when you don't include a tx fee. I do it quite often when the network won't pick up a transaction I need confirmed fast.

with proper precaution (see this reddit thread).

Are you associated with them, too?
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#bitcoin-assets IRC log:
18:30:37 mircea_popescu: in other news, atruk made a blog.
18:30:38 mircea_popescu: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/

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November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM
 #64

If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.
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November 21, 2013, 07:49:54 AM
 #65

Please direct all further refund requests to BitBet's authorized refund handling agent, Mr. David Thorne, esq.

Oh fuck, I lol'd.
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BitBet IRC chat logs, 4/26/2013:
16:16:26 davout: my intelligence is limited, but i do have enough to see when taking a step back is needed
as is davout.

I registered on these forums in 2010, before 98% of the users around here.
So... if I follow your "reasoning" you can associate me with whatever scam took place since then, right?



I'm a little confused here, didn't he bet before the bet closed?  How does a transaction delay retroactively affect the time he placed his bet?
I'm also confused by this. Double spending is not a concern, with proper precaution (see this reddit thread). Rudimentary game theory makes it abundantly clear that I wasn't attempting to double spend a losing bet.

Apples, oranges.
If BB used your unconfirmed TX output in the bet payout it'd be retarded because one scammer could fuck with the validity of the complete payout (a in "for everyone", not only for his winnings).


So the correct course of action for you is :
 - Think,
 - Understand the why of the policy,
 - Get over it,
 - Pay more attention next time

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November 21, 2013, 08:44:31 AM
 #66

Failing to use tx fees is mooching. Using a (notoriously inept) "service" that fails to use tx fees is also mooching. Placing a bet when the resolution is imminent is dangerous. Doing so without a tx fee is suicidal. The rules governing this possibility are in BitBet's FAQ.

It is unfortunate that you deemed it alright to wager your BTC with a service whose guidelines you had not read, and before you had grasped the concepts of transactions and confirmations in the first place. That you made these choices, however, is not anybody else's concern.

You are a cold-hearted *erk. Guy lost 10k dollars! I'm on his side and he is fully right! Anyways, the problem is that Bitcoin-qt sometimes asks and sometimes doesn't ask for tx fee? So how can it be forced? I don't see that option.

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November 21, 2013, 08:48:29 AM
 #67

So how can it be forced? I don't see that option.

Read the fucking thread, the guy did not use Bitcoin-qt.

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November 21, 2013, 08:52:07 AM
 #68

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

You have my full support. I'm linking this on Reddit already and Tweeted about it. Such behaviour of betting sites is outrageous, they should loose their reputation and credibility!

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November 21, 2013, 08:55:37 AM
 #69

I'm a little confused here, didn't he bet before the bet closed?  How does a transaction delay retroactively affect the time he placed his bet?

No, he did not bet before the bet closed. He did some gymnastics which he imagines should count. They don't.

Roughly equivalent would be the guy going to the insurance company after his house burned down and saying "but you know, I rubbed my nose right before the fire started, CLEARLY!!!! that means I was going to pay you the premium, I should be covered!"

And then being told he's nuts, and just sticking to his story, repeating it again and again, as if that did anything. As if life is some sort of contest of who stuffs his ears tighter and yells "no u" for longer.

However, this isn't fiat world run by daddy government, where even the last subhuman piece of shit retard is guaranteed survival irrespective of any practical consideration, strictly on the basis that he may vote, and so he may call customer support and abuse the staff with impunity, and then call 911 because his hamburger wasn't well done enough or whatever.

You don't vote here, not by headcount anyway. This is Bitcoin - which is to say a republic not a democracy, which is to say Sparta - run by MP & co, where you either know what you're doing, learn what you're doing, or get lost.

Consequently, fuckwits that clearly don't know what they're doing get told so, and if instead of humbly accepting they were stupid, eating up their punishment - their punishment - and becoming better doobies for the future they "revolt" and "organize boycotts" in their own head and so on and so forth the result is strictly more punishment, mostly in the form of public humiliation and mockery.

Don't be this retard starting the thread here, or any other one of the long string of retards that ran into a well made service - a very well made service - with a headful of mistaken assumptions and got trampled into mush to date. Be the smart guy that learns what Bitcoin is, and what crypto means, and how blockchains work, and why they work that way, and what the WoT is, and why it's important, and what identity is, and why that's important, and what business is, and how it works, and how it works that way, and why it has to work that way and so on and so forth.

That's what I'm here doing, hundreds of hours a month, on MPOE's dime, telling you the whys and wherefores of all that so that you collectively, the "community" of retards congregated on retardstalk, the retard forum inhabited by retards, may become over time less retarded and who knows, maybe even productive, useful members of the actual Bitcoin community. One in ten would already be a grand victory at the rate we're going.

One in ten. Look through my two year long posting history for fucks sake, look at all the idiots that knew better than me on the strength of Dunning–Kruger's affliction. There's a crowd each month, and then they disappear and a new crowd takes over. Exactly the same stupidity, under new names, sputtered by new people, identical to the old. Follow their histories, write a book. Don't be the mayfly that lives out its illusion for a summer, don't be the blade of grass to be replaced by an identical blade of grass every time a goat comes by and snips it. Use that noggin, be a human being already.

You want to know what the biggest obstacle is? The braindamaged, boneheaded assumption of every fuckwit that heard about Bitcoin a month ago, or a week ago, or whenever the last time fiat went down against it was, who now imagines he knows what everything is. That's what's keeping you all poor and irrelevant, not the fact that others were here first, not the fact that you didn't hear about it back when people mined it on their desktop. None of that, it's not something external, it's something quite internal: your mistaken assumptions, chief among which that you matter, and chief among which that you know shit you haven't the first clue about. Get rid of these!

Be the guy that LISTENS when MP says to him "Is this your first time? Well so then start small". Don't be the guy that SAYS "sounds like a fine plan" but then DOESN'T DO IT! Because you think you know better. You don't know better.

Bitcoin is a contest of wits. The fate of the witless is this: anger, frustration, failure. Don't be that guy.

If you want bitbet to end; make a better competitor. otherwise deal with it

Yeah, like that fractool guy.

Quote
Sep 07 19:23:55 <mircea_popescu>   yes yes, i get you, "the people" know, which is to say the various "different identities" of whatever random trolls, and you'll make a better communist version of bitbet with 0% fees and direct access to the definitive truths.

I'm also confused by this. Double spending is not a concern, with proper precaution (see this reddit thread). Rudimentary game theory makes it abundantly clear that I wasn't attempting to double spend a losing bet.

You're not confused, you're just one of the scummy fucks that imagines interested blindness is a valuable argument to bring. Bonus points for having quoted reddit as some sort of source, lmao. Meanwhile back at Reality Ranch:

Quote
Nov 21 00:46:20 <mircea_popescu>   Before Sen. Jerry Moran (R-Kan.) addressed his colleagues about Bitcoin Tuesday, he did what any person in power who's a little confused about a complicated should do.
Nov 21 00:46:20 <mircea_popescu>   He went to the experts. Specifically, he went to Reddit's r/Bitcoin to ask them what the fuss was about.
Nov 21 00:46:21 <mircea_popescu>   ahahahaha
Nov 21 00:46:25 <mircea_popescu>   o.m.f.g.
Nov 21 00:46:31 <pankkake>   this is gold
Nov 21 00:46:37 <mircea_popescu>   this is like... almost better than bitcointalk
Nov 21 00:46:49 <mircea_popescu>   Those redditors, as redditors are wont to do, offered a mixed bag of responses. Some were flippant, some mistook him for Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.),
Nov 21 00:46:53 <mircea_popescu>   totally. they're the experts.
Nov 21 00:47:24 <nubbins`>   couple of morans
Nov 21 00:47:41 <nubbins`>   http://moranswithsigns.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/moran-sign.jpg
Nov 21 00:49:00 *   iamnot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
Nov 21 00:52:08 <assbot>   [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] 1435 @ 0.001045 = 1.4996 BTC [-]
Nov 21 00:54:04 <thestringpuller>   lol what would you expect from reddit?

Reddit is possibly the only place on the web with an even higher concentration of stupid than here. And since we're on this: #bitcoin-assets is not "BitBet irc", #bitcoin-assets is where people representing a majority of Bitcoins in circulation hang out. That place is where the law of the land comes from, that's where the future is drawn up. When MP doesn't want Bitcoin over 100, it's that irc chan where he first says something. When people want Bitcoin over 500 it's that chan where they come and ask if it's okay. When MtGox's slaughter is decided that's where it's first hinted at, and generally, everything that you find about a week after on Reddit was pre-announced a week or a month in advance on #bitcoin-assets.

You'd better LURK there for a while, and read the logs every day for six months to a year before you even say anything about anything. Show some respect to your betters --and make no mistake about it: the people there ARE your betters.

You should return the coins to all affected users and change your ridiculous policy.

To quote MP,

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Since we’re doing “I would likes”, here’s mine : I would like to fuck your wife (due to you being an idiot). If you don’t have one (which’d be unfortunate but perhaps not unexplainable) please get married asap. I expect to receive this wife of yours at the following address : 1wilfulstupidityrules1337, and let me point out to you that by failing to inform me of the vital information of whether you’re married or not and also failing to provide tits in time you’re now to gtfo.

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November 21, 2013, 08:58:00 AM
 #70

My involvement is basically that there was a group of idiots derping in this thread and I joined the fray. Why?

Seems that we're having only one lone idiot here, and that's you. Do you see how many people are against you?

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November 21, 2013, 09:00:42 AM
 #71

Seems that we're having only one lone idiot here, and that's you. Do you see how many people are against you?

Who asked you anything? Speak when spoken to, fuckwit.

@davout I love it how they quote rettardit as the source of the method to avoid doublespends that Satoshi Dice pioneered.

You know, the MPEx Satoshi Dice.

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November 21, 2013, 10:00:39 AM
 #72

I believe 100%

Go make a religion or something

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November 21, 2013, 11:42:00 AM
 #73

Seems that we're having only one lone idiot here, and that's you. Do you see how many people are against you?

Who asked you anything? Speak when spoken to, fuckwit.

@davout I love it how they quote rettardit as the source of the method to avoid doublespends that Satoshi Dice pioneered.

You know, the MPEx Satoshi Dice.

MPOE-PR just likes irritating people. Common sense be damned. 
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November 21, 2013, 11:46:43 AM
 #74

I had a similar issue. Was 0.20 btc , but it sucks anyway.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341881.0

Gl snackman.
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November 21, 2013, 02:20:04 PM
 #75

So this dude's bitcoin arrived too late to be included in the bet, but is being kept as if it had made it in the bet and lost?

For shame.  Shame shame shame.

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November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM
 #76

If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.

The service is GAMBLING.  GAMBLING is risky.  When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets.  Why?

Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings.  This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers.  The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.   

This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq. 

You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

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November 21, 2013, 02:22:27 PM
 #77

The service is GAMBLING.  GAMBLING is risky.

Keeping my 10 BTC is STEALING. STEALING is wrong.

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November 21, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
 #78

Keeping my 10 BTC is STEALING. STEALING is wrong.

"Would you download a car?"

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November 21, 2013, 02:29:05 PM
 #79

The service is GAMBLING.  GAMBLING is risky.

Keeping my 10 BTC is STEALING. STEALING is wrong.

Sending $9,000 to a random gambling site without reading the rules is stupid.  Blaming others is childish.

Stealing is going in the night while you sleep and breaking into a safe. 

This is you gouging out your eyes and running into a casino and slapping down $9,000 on a roullete machine and then demanding your money back because you didn't know how it worked.


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November 21, 2013, 02:33:25 PM
 #80

If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.

The service is GAMBLING.  GAMBLING is risky.  When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets.  Why?

Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings.  This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers.  The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.   

This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq. 

You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

This could be solved easily I think . Their rules could include this for ex: all bets entered 30 minutes before bet outcome is known will be cancelled and refunded with a 1%.
Is it? I'm not an expert on betting, correct me if I'm wrong.
But seems like they prefer to steal the money.

and FAQ says:

http://bitbet.us/faq/#152
What if I bet after the bet has been satisfied, but before it is actually closed?
Your bet will be refunded, minus BitBet's 1% fee.

Our bets were done BEFORE the bet was closed.
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