Peter R
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December 07, 2013, 06:12:38 PM |
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De-raking
If the goal is to maintain 80% of your portfolio in Bitcoin, what do you do when the price falls a lot (for a non-catastrophic reason)? If you had $80,000 in BTC and $20,000 in fiat, then the price halved, you'd now have $40,000 in BTC and it'd only be about 67% of your portfolio. Wouldn't you want to buy back enough BTC to bring the ratio back to 80/20?
Obviously there are limits to how low you'd go with this, but does this have any use or does even any rebalancing on price dips ruin the whole point of the rake/hedge?
Zang: I'm usually a big fan of your posts, but I think your de-racking idea is extremely dangerous. The whole idea of the rake is to allow you to enjoy the run-up, recover you initial investment, and emotionally detach from the bitcoins you are "letting ride." I maintained a Zen-like calmness through this crash, I think in large part due to the SSS. By now I have raked* an amount roughly equal to my initial investment, and for some reason when the price rallies or crashes the dollars gained or lost seem ephemeral. That being said, since I still earn a wage, I take 10% of the extra money I have from each pay cheque for "savings" and put this into bitcoins. This amount is now trivial compared to my long-term holdings, but I see it as a low-risk vote of confidence in the bitcoin economy. *The best way to rake, if possible, is to purchase things directly with your bitcoins.
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rpietila (OP)
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December 07, 2013, 06:21:44 PM |
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To make any significant benefit of de-raking, one or both of the following have to happen:
- Big enough rake-% to give access to more funds - Big enough de-rake-% to give enough leverage in dips.
First of them makes a terrible cut in your EV in the long run. Second is dangerous in final loss.
My gut tells that you should just keep all rakes and enjoy life.
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Peter R
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December 07, 2013, 06:26:37 PM |
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My gut tells that you should just keep all rakes and enjoy life.
+1
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canth
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December 07, 2013, 06:37:01 PM |
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To make any significant benefit of de-raking, one or both of the following have to happen:
- Big enough rake-% to give access to more funds - Big enough de-rake-% to give enough leverage in dips.
First of them makes a terrible cut in your EV in the long run. Second is dangerous in final loss.
My gut tells that you should just keep all rakes and enjoy life.
Yeah, that's probably wisest. Like most investment decisions, it really just requires the will to see it through regardless of how the investment plays out vs the expectations.
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EdsWow1
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December 07, 2013, 07:06:08 PM |
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Fantastic thread .... thank you !!
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Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschön - Merci - Cпacибo! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
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CMMPro
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December 08, 2013, 02:41:31 AM |
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De-raking
If the goal is to maintain 80% of your portfolio in Bitcoin, what do you do when the price falls a lot (for a non-catastrophic reason)? If you had $80,000 in BTC and $20,000 in fiat, then the price halved, you'd now have $40,000 in BTC and it'd only be about 67% of your portfolio. Wouldn't you want to buy back enough BTC to bring the ratio back to 80/20?
Obviously there are limits to how low you'd go with this, but does this have any use or does even any rebalancing on price dips ruin the whole point of the rake/hedge?
Zang: I'm usually a big fan of your posts, but I think your de-racking idea is extremely dangerous. The whole idea of the rake is to allow you to enjoy the run-up, recover you initial investment, and emotionally detach from the bitcoins you are "letting ride." I maintained a Zen-like calmness through this crash, I think in large part due to the SSS. By now I have raked* an amount roughly equal to my initial investment, and for some reason when the price rallies or crashes the dollars gained or lost seem ephemeral. That being said, since I still earn a wage, I take 10% of the extra money I have from each pay cheque for "savings" and put this into bitcoins. This amount is now trivial compared to my long-term holdings, but I see it as a low-risk vote of confidence in the bitcoin economy. *The best way to rake, if possible, is to purchase things directly with your bitcoins.Funny, I feel exactly the same way. I've raked enough to be playing with "found money" now and the emotion is almost completely gone. The crash in April was gut wrenching to me...too much emotion. This correction...meh.
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macsga
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Strange, yet attractive.
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December 08, 2013, 02:44:39 PM |
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Funny, I feel exactly the same way. I've raked enough to be playing with "found money" now and the emotion is almost completely gone.
The crash in April was gut wrenching to me...too much emotion. This correction...meh.
I never got into the trading concept in both times and I'm just grabbing my popcorn. When you're risk free; you're alright.
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Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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Zangelbert Bingledack
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December 09, 2013, 07:32:19 AM |
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Thanks for the input, gents.
I was thinking the goal was to maintain 80/20 ratio, but actually it should be to bring your holdings to this ratio on the way up, but not on the way down.
Anything else is getting into trading and should be left to advanced traders, or perhaps with a very small percentage just for fun.
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Kramerc
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December 09, 2013, 10:56:45 AM |
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Thank you a lot for this piece of advice and for this thread.
For a 1 week bitcoin novice who is trying to get as much information on bitcoin as possible, and who is looking to invest as soon as my accounts get validated, this strategy is heaven sent.
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kdrop22
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December 09, 2013, 04:47:11 PM |
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Anything else is getting into trading and should be left to advanced traders, or perhaps with a very small percentage just for fun.
I agree as long as, like you said, it is a very small percentage. I was actually trading during the crash with a very small %. I lost but still it gave me the sweet comfort of the illusion of control. I trade with 2% of my holdings as well. Helps relieve the urge to buy/sell something.
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d9000
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December 13, 2013, 05:16:25 AM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
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xDan
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December 13, 2013, 12:30:42 PM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
Did you see this,or is it not SSS-like enough for your tastes? http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/You're welcome to re-use the source.
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HODLing for the longest time. Skippin fast right around the moon. On a rocketship straight to mars. Up, up and away with my beautiful, my beautiful Bitcoin~
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d9000
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December 13, 2013, 02:13:24 PM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
Did you see this,or is it not SSS-like enough for your tastes? http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/You're welcome to re-use the source. No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed
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SlipperySlope
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December 13, 2013, 06:21:57 PM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
Did you see this,or is it not SSS-like enough for your tastes? http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/You're welcome to re-use the source. No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed Works for me! I too would like to see a delayed gains option on your inspiring SSS calculator.
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xDan
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December 13, 2013, 10:46:59 PM |
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No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed oooh, yours is prettier nice
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HODLing for the longest time. Skippin fast right around the moon. On a rocketship straight to mars. Up, up and away with my beautiful, my beautiful Bitcoin~
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bitrider
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December 14, 2013, 03:45:59 PM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
Did you see this,or is it not SSS-like enough for your tastes? http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/You're welcome to re-use the source. No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed Beautiful work. Thanks for sharing it. If you are interested in adding an additional feature, I would suggest that the "doubling" and rake be more fully variable. For example I will likely be using a more continuous withdrawal plan such that I sell 1% of BTC at each 10% increase in ATH. I'd ideally like to play with these variables as well. I am able to do that on at least one of the other calculators posted in this thread.
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d9000
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December 15, 2013, 03:28:01 AM |
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No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed oooh, yours is prettier nice Nah, it was just bootstrap.js that did most of the skinning on the UI. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I'll look into adding those features.
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Kramerc
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December 16, 2013, 08:49:01 AM |
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Excellent thread - thanks!!
I hacked together a quick Google Docs spreadsheet to play with the numbers for my own uses, and I'm in the process of creating a small website with an SSS-style calculator on it.
I'll keep you posted when it's up.
Did you see this,or is it not SSS-like enough for your tastes? http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/You're welcome to re-use the source. No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed Thank you! Already bookmarked and going to have some fun with it later!
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yenom
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December 16, 2013, 01:39:49 PM |
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No, I had not seen that one! That's what I get for skimming though page 4. Nice work, I like playing with the delayed gains option. Anyway, the one I was working on is done now too: http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/Comments/criticisms/error checking welcomed Wow what an awesome tool! Thanks! I know this is only cosmetic but could you allow an option to change the currency symbol?
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