NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[klee]

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

Klee, if a user had the option to send using either standard or anonymous (zerocoin like), couldn't a merchant simply deny transactions with that flag sent?  If so:

The people that hate freedom... *cough* I mean, the people that scream about anonymous transactions don't have to accept them
The people that want to send it anonymously, well, they have that option

Win/Win?

Not sure I understood your second paragraph  

The first paragraph refers to a known issue with mixers and/or I2P/Tor wallet clients (taint analysis) - the only solution is to make them compulsory to everyone...

I had an opportunity to talk with the Zero team this past summer when I was with Feathercoin. I asked if it would be possible to allow the user to toggle the option to utilize zero or send a standard transaction in the same client and they said yes.

Here's the issue I see:

Large merchant wants to accept CoinY
Large merchant is regulated somehow and can not accept CoinY because of the anonymous nature of the coin
Large merchant is able to reject any coins that are colored/tagged with anonymous feature
If customer wants to do business with large merchant, they can't toggle the anonymous option
Customer can use the same wallet to send a standard transaction to the large merchant
Customer has the option to use CoinY anonymously elsewhere

Yep, taint analysis.
Probably it is too late for NXT now too (as for ALL coins thus far)...

[klee]

So regarding anonymity BTC is worse than cash and NXT is worse than BTC...
Let's not forget that anonymity was the most popular feature people wanted for NXT in a poll or something.

[IveBeenBit]

And again about anonymous transactions.

You guys may want to go for a squeaky clean image to appease regulators, but in the words of Andreas Antonopolous, "If you can't even use your currency to buy weed, then your currency sucks."

And forgetting the black market aspects...

Wikileaks and Antiwar.com have both been investigated and persecuted due to their political stances. In fact, the ACLU is currently suing the FBI for what they did to Antiwar.com.

Suppose I would like to support either of these causes, but I don't want my name on a donor list in the FBI's hands....NXT does not allow me to do even that.

[joefox]

Re-posting my Public Service Announcement:

If you are new to Nxt and don't want to read through 926 pages of forum posts, come to the wiki:
- Learn about Nxt
- Get started
- get basic questions answered in the FAQ and common problems pages
- Learn how to set up a public node on a VPS, using laowai80's steps
- read up on the Nxt high-level API, which you can use to build apps, games, clients, utilities, and more
- find additional resources for programmers, including suggested methods for handling transactions, a PHP library, and more.
- check out the current draft version of the Nxt whitepaper, which is being built and refined by top community contributors (it's still rough, but there's lots of great content already)

Also remember there are great forums with lots of info and support for beginners. Many of the best Nxt wiki articles are based on information originally contributed here:
- The nxtcrypto.org forum
- The nextcoin.org forum

Wiki contributors pull information from these threads every day to keep the wiki up to date. You can also help contribute, or translate.

This thread is long and daunting for new folks.  Don't get frustrated -- come to the places where new folks are welcomed and pampered!

[utopianfuture]

Did you guys read the post today by Cyem regarding building an application platform on top of NXT protocol. Sound very promising to me. The arbitrary message feature offer a great deal of programming flexibility. And given TF, the network could support a great deal of applications.

I think Ethereum guys try to do the same thing, offering programming flexibility on top of its protocol. Klee, you should think about how to use this arbitrary message feature since there are  a lot of things could be done with it beside sending a simple message.    
 

[IveBeenBit]

Suppose I would like to support either of these causes, but I don't want my name on a donor list in the FBI's hands....NXT does not allow me to do even that.

Nxt does not want to add a feature that could help stop the bombing of civilian wedding parties in the Middle East, because that same feature would be exploited to facilitate the marijuana trade.

[utopianfuture]

Suppose I would like to support either of these causes, but I don't want my name on a donor list in the FBI's hands....NXT does not allow me to do even that.

Nxt does not want to add a feature that could help stop the bombing of civilian wedding parties in the Middle East, because that same feature would be exploited to facilitate the marijuana trade.

I really don't know what you are talking about. There is a limit what you can do when all the transaction records are public.

[IveBeenBit]

I really don't know what you are talking about. There is a limit what you can do when all the transaction records are public.

I'm just trying to point out that there is more to anonymity than to enable black markets.

And I'm surprised and disappointed that it apparently needs to be spelled out to someone on a cryptocurrency forum.

[utopianfuture]

I really don't know what you are talking about. There is a limit what you can do when all the transaction records are public.

I'm just trying to point out that there is more to anonymity than to enable black markets.

And I'm surprised and disappointed that it apparently needs to be spelled out to someone on a cryptocurrency forum.

I don't know what to tell you if you think you can keep a total anonymity when you are surfing the Internet.

[ycm82]

To NXT devs and DGEX! It is very important !

First of all，
The DEVs are thinking if the price of NXT is low, people are willing to buy NXT, but it is wrong, people would buy coins when see price rising！

Beyond hope NXT team apart from the emphasis on technological innovation, to balance the market.
Importance to the functioning of markets does not mean mere marketing hype, but to NXT problem now, namely: concepts and practices that are too technical, too little market corrected, and let the market play a role this lame.
Enter the NXT the vast majority of people in this market, their basic idea NXT this market to make money, not just for the sake of NXT technology has much good.
To achieving the goal of making money, only the NXT price increases can be achieved, or how many will enter the NXT market?
We'll see on December 25 last year at around, price around 0.00012 NXT, why do so many people buy DGEX 24H turnover of more than 20 million NXT?
Now, on January 12, the trading volume was more than 1 million NXT DGEX 24H, only one in 20 of the original?

I've already told you, NXT's biggest inherent problems or birth defects, is the original shareholders ' equity is too concentrated, only solves this problem, NXT to long-term development.
If you want to solve the problem of original shareholders ' equity is too concentrated, only the NXT dollars out of the hands of original shareholders spread out that way as much as possible. In fact, this is the most important mission of DGEX trading network established by the.
However, the DGEX exchange trading volume now cut down to the floor, isn't that the NXT the greatest obstacle to development?
The most fundamental factor contributing to this phenomenon, is what I said earlier, is NXT team caused by misconceptions and the market practices.
So-called mistake means: NXT team mistakenly think only a low price would have greater acceptance of NXT, will enter the market. Changes in NXT turnover, we know how much this idea out of touch with reality!!
By wrong practices mean: NXT team's original shareholders, since trading volume was in the hands of chips to artificially suppress prices of NXT NXT currency, makes NXT cannot run more dominated by market forces.
Price of necessary interventions for NXT is useful, but the actual market and completely as is now the case out of the tightly controlled NXT price, the result is that we now wanted to see: price and volume of the NXT is dead! As mentioned earlier, this is the NXT the greatest obstacle to development!
In addition,
the now DGEX NXT and NXT with higher transaction costs are costs the outside participants in the NXT is closed, which is another big obstacle to disperse NXT! Not conducive to the long-term development of NXT!
We strongly urge the NXT team coordination and DGEX the following:
1, NXT trading fee fell to 0;
2, reducing the NXT withdraw costs to 0 or 0.05%;
3, reduce the cost of withdraw BTC.
4、Speed up  withdraw and deposit.

The Third，   
Some say that BTC took 5 years of development, we don't have to worry, slow things down. I have to tell you, this is very wrong point of view.  BTC is the first virtual currency, virtual currency to open remote, no BTC, not all virtual currency. So,BTC in 5 years. Market impossible, NXT 3、5 years, NXT no developmented within one year, NXT does not come within a year,second generation of NXT will be similar virtual currencies, even third-generation and fourth-generation currency trampled to death!

Anyway,
Hope NXT team know as soon as possible and immediately began to address the above issues: NXT team days in hands of original shareholders not to use chips to artificially suppress prices of NXT, more market power of the dominant NXT run, so NXT price and volume came alive again, volume was in the hands of original shareholders NXT spread in Canadian dollars as soon as possible. In this way, NXT to the healthy and stable development.
Thanks!
=========================================================================================================================
希望NXT团队除了重视技术创新之外，也要兼顾市场运作。
重视市场运作不等于单纯的市场炒作，而是要把现在NXT存在的问题，即：过于重视技术、轻视市场的观念和做法纠正过来，让市场这条瘸脚发挥作用。
进入NXT这个市场的绝大多数人，他们的根本想法其实是想在NXT这一市场赚钱，而不是单纯为了NXT的技术有多好。
要想实现赚钱这一目标，就只有NXT的价格上涨才能实现，否则有多少人会进入NXT市场？
我们来看看，去年12月25号左右时，NXT价格在0.00012左右，为什么那么多人疯狂的买入，DGEX的24H成交量2000多万 NXT？
现在，1月12日，DGEX的24H成交量为什么才100多万NXT，只有原来的20分之一？
我早说过了，NXT最大的硬伤或说先天缺陷，就是原始股东股权太集中，只有解决了这个问题，NXT才能有长远的发展。
如果要解决原始股东股权太集中的问题，就只有让NXT币尽快从原始股东手中尽量多的分散出去这一途径。其实，这也是DGEX交易网设立的最重要使命。
但是，现在DGEX交易网的交易量缩到了地板上，这难道不是NXT发展的最大障碍吗？
造成这一现象的最根本原因，就是我前面说的，是NXT团队对于市场的错误认识和做法造成的。
所谓的错误认识是指：NXT团队错误的认为只有低价才会有更多人接受NXT，才会进入这一市场。看看NXT成交量的变化，我们就知道这一想法有多么的脱离现实！！
所谓的错误做法是指：NXT团队的原始大股东，利用自已手中的天量NXT币筹码来人为的压制NXT的价格，使NXT的价格无法更多的由市场的力量主导运行。
对NXT价格必要的干预是有益的，但象现在这样脱离市场实际的、完全的死死控制住NXT的价格，其结果就是我们现在最不愿看到的：NXT的价格和成交量已经死了！正如前面所述，这正是NXT发展的最大障碍！
另外，现在DGEX较高的NXT交易费和NXT提现费用，是把NXT参与者拒之于门外，这是分散持有NXT的另一大障碍！不利于NXT的长远发展！
我们强烈要求NXT团队和DGEX协调以下事项：
1、把NXT提现费用降为0 ；
2、把NXT交易费用降为0.05%或0；
3、降低BTC提现费用。
4、提升提现和充值速度
有人说BTC的发展用了5年时间，我们不用着急，慢慢发展。我要告诉你，这是非常错误的观点。BTC是第一个虚拟货币、是虚拟货币的开天僻地者，没有BTC就没有所有的虚拟币。所以，BTC用了5年时间。市场不可能给NXT3、5年时间，一年之内NXT发展不起来，NXT就会被同类的第二代虚拟货币、甚至于第三代、第四代货币踩死！
希望NXT团队尽快认识并立即开始解决以上问题：NXT团队原始大股东不要再利用手中的天量NXT币筹码来人为的压制NXT的价格，让更多的市场力量主导NXT的运行，从而让NXT的价格和成交量再次活跃起来，让原始大股东手中的天量NXT币尽快的分散开来。这样，NXT才能健康稳定的发展。

==========================================================================================

[kunibopl]

the anonymity feature is important of course.
I have to admit, I thought NXT could be anonymous through mixing services.
but now I realize with BTC it's easier to do that.
what is the developers opinion on that crucial point?

[IveBeenBit]

I don't know what to tell you if you think you can keep a total anonymity when you are surfing the Internet.

Why the straw man? I never said anything about total anonymity while internet surfing.

I am arguing for the importance in privacy while transferring wealth. The Zerocoin people figured out how to do it within a bitcoin-like system, so it's theoretically possible and not that hard. This is already settled.

NXT needs a similar functionality.

the anonymity feature is important of course.
I have to admit, I thought NXT could be anonymous through mixing services.
but now I realize with BTC it's easier to do that.
what is the developers opinion on that crucial point?

I too would like to hear if the main developers consider this a priority.

[lr127]

64-bit encryption is only used for accounts that have no public key and haven't done any transactions. It is recommended to make public key and do at least one transaction. Send someone some NXT, buy an alias, basically I think any proactive usage of the account gives 256 bit protection

Can anyone explain this in more detail? Or maybe it has already been discussed somewhere.
How the presence of a transaction affect the strength of encription? And encription for what?
Account ID is hash of public key which is function of private key (secret phrase).

Code:

Curve25519.keygen(publicKey, null, MessageDigest.getInstance("SHA-256").digest(secretPhrase.getBytes("UTF-8")));
//publicKey - output
byte[] publicKeyHash = MessageDigest.getInstance("SHA-256").digest(publicKey);
BigInteger bigInteger = new BigInteger(1, new byte[]{publicKeyHash[7], publicKeyHash[6], publicKeyHash[5], 
                                          publicKeyHash[4], publicKeyHash[3], publicKeyHash[2], publicKeyHash[1], publicKeyHash[0]});
//bigInteger - is account id

If you don't have Transaction you don't have stored Account ID in NRS "database".
But how does it affect the existence of the account (as pair the private key-public id)?

[ycm82]

HI, everyone, I opened the blog, dedicated to NXT in development and expansion of China's domestic and BTC, let us witness the NXT, BTC virtual

currency and other large developments！
Welcome to visit！
HI,各位，我开通了新浪博客和微博，致力于推动NXT以及BTC在中国国内的发展壮大，让我们共同见证NXT、BTC以及其他虚拟币的大发展。
http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/2236331454
http://weibo.com/u/2236331454

[bitcoinpaul]

I don't know what to tell you if you think you can keep a total anonymity when you are surfing the Internet.

Why the straw man? I never said anything about total anonymity while internet surfing.

I am arguing for the importance in privacy while transferring wealth. The Zerocoin people figured out how to do it within a bitcoin-like system, so it's theoretically possible and not that hard. This is already settled.

NXT needs a similar functionality.

+1

the anonymity feature is important of course.
I have to admit, I thought NXT could be anonymous through mixing services.
but now I realize with BTC it's easier to do that.
what is the developers opinion on that crucial point?

I too would like to hear if the main developers consider this a priority.

+1

[pandaisftw]

While anonymity may be important, it's not so important it should be prioritized above everything else. Bitcoin has survived 5 years without zerocoin features, so obviously it's not like cryptocurrencies will die if they don't implement it right away. We should be concentrating our efforts on features everyone will need to use, not just a few fringe cases.

Wasn't a decentralized mixing service planned anyways? Send coins to mixer, coins come out on other end to your never-used-account or destination - sounds pretty anonymous to me.

[Brilliantrocket]

And I thought 2% premine was bad.

[utopianfuture]

And I thought 2% premine was bad.

Go buy some clone coins. We are real bad

[PeercoinEnthusiast]

And I thought 2% premine was bad.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=414442.msg4497694#msg4497694

"Why isn't anyone making something that's actually, you know, different from bitcoin? And don't bring up that NXT scamcoin. "

Priceless! Welcome to the thread.

[jonchoo]

Just wanted to shamelessly link to an NXT animation I made (originally in this thread) :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=410976.0
https://googledrive.com/host/0B8BV8lKoG3cUNmlhZ0Ezb1ZJMFU/Nxtcoin%20If%20you%20find%20this%20image%20useful%20please%20donate%20BTC%201P5Dc5W3w5CmKfSyjy582qQHoBs6NyVgdS%20%20or%20LTC%20LQxW6GyBNXpPe4U1K2mXQHzRFbVTfrXGvp.gif