NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[pinarello]

J-L, CfB


Can you give any estimation what will be the cost for further development and maintianing of the NXT network/year?

Purely from DEV point of view.

Could you make such estimation please?

Pin

Maybe above is lost in the board noise, but is someone on it?

Pin

[S3MKi]

Thank u.

I'll contact all these guys, everyone will get 100K. I hope everybody agrees that this is a good decision.

Let's make a poll!

Just kiddin

I am NOT

[Come-from-Beyond]

Dont know about the amount CfB... for example yeuye000 already received 200K, others din't receive a thing. I thought we agreed up on 50, 30, 20

altough for desktop clients the winners shoul'd get more as it is indeed important but that is just my opinion. I think it is no solution or any good to throw 100K to people for unfinisched product, if they bail they are gonne.

Pin

Client soft is the weakest point of Nxt, we should fund development. Today u pay 20K instead of 100K and tomorrow ur saved 80K becomes a useless set of bits.

Btw, where could I get a link to Ola's client?

[pinarello]

Thank u.

I'll contact all these guys, everyone will get 100K. I hope everybody agrees that this is a good decision.

Let's make a poll!

Just kiddin

I am NOT

Ok now we can laugh about it but in the future... If this goes on one moment it will block the decision making and daily working of NXT.

oh this is a major flaw... NXT: 12088507821025750338

Pin

[pinarello]

the aliases can be transferred to another account?

Not yet, in the future yes.

Pin

[smartwart]

ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear that there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets-polls" is different category as "best button color-polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:
- min. permitted Account Deposit
- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)
- poll duration (Blocks)
- Voting Fee

Voting Models
- 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }
- 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}
- 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...

[Come-from-Beyond]

general options:
- min. permitted Account Deposit
- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)
- poll duration (Blocks)
- Voting Fee

Voting Models
- 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }
- 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}
- 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

These 2 points can be written in poll description. It's up to the poll creator how to interpret the result. He can filter received votes and use any voting model.

Voting results don't lead to actions, so anyone can use any interpretation.

[Forobitcoins]

the aliases can be transferred to another account?

Not yet, in the future yes.

Pin

thank you

[markus1000]

i still think 1 nxt = 1 vote is the best solution. we dont want to have a situation where people can create new accounts to have a bigger voting power than before.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Smaragda asked me to tell about my virtual² currency ran on top of Nxt blockchain and AM. Well, I'm launching a coin. It will be mined by GPUs (single SHA256 algo). It's just a proof-of-concept, but soon we could see a lot of altcoins based on this concept. Client soft will be written in HTML+CSS+JS.

[landomata]

Just want to throw something in the discussion.

Now that AM is here and other functions like voting are coming clients are being made (even the very basic ones), wouldn't it be a good idea to lower fees on that rather quickly?

I feel that adoption of Nxt will be far better served by use than by lower prices of Nxt so people can get thousands and thousands.

The value of anything is determined by it's usefulness anyway.

So, if for instance, if AM would cost 0,01 Nxt for a message, even someone with one Nxt from the faucet would be able to get some actual use out of his Nxt (100 messages for FREE, WOO! )

Also, we might be seeing transactions go up, although I see that with the current block creation times, that may also create irritation at this moment?

My main point however is to look to fee lowering as a way to throw Nxt more open in the future instead of the market price. The fees are what determine how much use you can get out of one Nxt, thus determining the value of that Nxt?

Good idea of just plain idiocy?

I AGREE 100%   ...this must be done on PRIORITY basis....0.01 message fee should be done.

We have to balance low fees vs. people forging. I think it may be too early to decrease the fee. For example, if the fee is 0.01 NXT (= $0.0004) someone would have to forge 2500 min. transactions (which would be thousands of blocks) to make $1.

If traffic increased 10-100x to compensate, of course that will be better. So the question is, will lowering fees right now increase traffic by 10-100x? Otherwise many people will stop forging and the network will be more susceptible to an attack.

its all the same thing....guy send 1 msg == 1 nxt or guy send 100 msg == 1 Nxt....fee amount generated is the same....but utility value increases for the guy who is now using the service on a regular basis.

[smartwart]

i still think 1 nxt = 1 vote is the best solution. we dont want to have a situation where people can create new accounts to have a bigger voting power than before.

Please try this point of view:      1NXT = 1Vote   vs.  1NXT = 0.5Vote.

For "1Account = 1Vote", if you create a lot of accounts you will get:

1Account = 1Vote  is the same as 1NXT = 0.5Vote but in addition 1NXT fee to have a valid account

This helps the economic system because any movement of NXT is good!
Increasing Voting Power leads to increasing NXT flow.
And now you have increased your voting power you have decreased your forging power.
That leads to the next NXT flow ;-)

Another point would be under aspect of Forging Pools and Transparent Forging, but this is for later...

[pinarello]

Smaragda asked me to tell about my virtual² currency ran on top of Nxt blockchain and AM. Well, I'm launching a coin. It will be mined by GPUs (single SHA256 algo). It's just a proof-of-concept, but soon we could see a lot of altcoins based on this concept. Client soft will be written in HTML+CSS+JS.

is there a link or thread?

Pin

[marcus03]

Just want to throw something in the discussion.

Now that AM is here and other functions like voting are coming clients are being made (even the very basic ones), wouldn't it be a good idea to lower fees on that rather quickly?

I feel that adoption of Nxt will be far better served by use than by lower prices of Nxt so people can get thousands and thousands.

The value of anything is determined by it's usefulness anyway.

So, if for instance, if AM would cost 0,01 Nxt for a message, even someone with one Nxt from the faucet would be able to get some actual use out of his Nxt (100 messages for FREE, WOO! )

Also, we might be seeing transactions go up, although I see that with the current block creation times, that may also create irritation at this moment?

My main point however is to look to fee lowering as a way to throw Nxt more open in the future instead of the market price. The fees are what determine how much use you can get out of one Nxt, thus determining the value of that Nxt?

Good idea of just plain idiocy?

I AGREE 100%   ...this must be done on PRIORITY basis....0.01 message fee should be done.

Is the minimum fee currently hard coded in the core?

Shouldn't it automatically adjust, so that we don't run into problem with different core version in the network that have different minimal fees?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Smaragda asked me to tell about my virtual² currency ran on top of Nxt blockchain and AM. Well, I'm launching a coin. It will be mined by GPUs (single SHA256 algo). It's just a proof-of-concept, but soon we could see a lot of altcoins based on this concept. Client soft will be written in HTML+CSS+JS.

is there a link or thread?

Pin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=415580.0

[mcjavar]

Smaragda asked me to tell about my virtual² currency ran on top of Nxt blockchain and AM. Well, I'm launching a coin. It will be mined by GPUs (single SHA256 algo). It's just a proof-of-concept, but soon we could see a lot of altcoins based on this concept. Client soft will be written in HTML+CSS+JS.

is there a link or thread?

Pin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=415580.0

it`s in eastern-chinese ffs!

[getfun12345]

Nxt Client for Android -- Arbitrary Message, chat system -- Updated 2014.1.15

New features:
Arbitrary Messages
You can send messages to other and view all messages of your account.
http://bbyk.sinaapp.com/temp/chat.jpg

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,797.0.html

[pandaisftw]

Just want to throw something in the discussion.

Now that AM is here and other functions like voting are coming clients are being made (even the very basic ones), wouldn't it be a good idea to lower fees on that rather quickly?

I feel that adoption of Nxt will be far better served by use than by lower prices of Nxt so people can get thousands and thousands.

The value of anything is determined by it's usefulness anyway.

So, if for instance, if AM would cost 0,01 Nxt for a message, even someone with one Nxt from the faucet would be able to get some actual use out of his Nxt (100 messages for FREE, WOO! )

Also, we might be seeing transactions go up, although I see that with the current block creation times, that may also create irritation at this moment?

My main point however is to look to fee lowering as a way to throw Nxt more open in the future instead of the market price. The fees are what determine how much use you can get out of one Nxt, thus determining the value of that Nxt?

Good idea of just plain idiocy?

I AGREE 100%   ...this must be done on PRIORITY basis....0.01 message fee should be done.

We have to balance low fees vs. people forging. I think it may be too early to decrease the fee. For example, if the fee is 0.01 NXT (= $0.0004) someone would have to forge 2500 min. transactions (which would be thousands of blocks) to make $1.

If traffic increased 10-100x to compensate, of course that will be better. So the question is, will lowering fees right now increase traffic by 10-100x? Otherwise many people will stop forging and the network will be more susceptible to an attack.

its all the same thing....guy send 1 msg == 1 nxt or guy send 100 msg == 1 Nxt....fee amount generated is the same....but utility value increases for the guy who is now using the service on a regular basis.

Yes, that's what I am saying. If, by lowering fees, we see a large increase in transactions, then it will be worth it to lower fees. The question is, will we see that large of an increase right now? If not, then it may be too early to do so.

i still think 1 nxt = 1 vote is the best solution. we dont want to have a situation where people can create new accounts to have a bigger voting power than before.

Please try this point of view:      1NXT = 1Vote   vs.  1NXT = 0.5Vote.

For "1Account = 1Vote", if you create a lot of accounts you will get:

1Account = 1Vote  is the same as 1NXT = 0.5Vote but in addition 1NXT fee to have a valid account

This helps the economic system because any movement of NXT is good!
Increasing Voting Power leads to increasing NXT flow.
And now you have increased your voting power you have decreased your forging power.
That leads to the next NXT flow ;-)

Another point would be under aspect of Forging Pools and Transparent Forging, but this is for later...

Still, the voting by account has a large problem.

Take for example, stakeholder A with 1mil NXT and stakeholder B with 100 NXT. In order to increase their voting power to the fullest, they both will want to separate their account into many smaller ones with 1 NXT each.

For stakeholder A, initially making a new account will cost him 1/1000000 in fees, or 0.0001% of his holdings. The next account will take 1/999998 of his holdings, and so on.
For stakeholder B, initially making a new account will cost him 1/100 in fees, or 1% of his holdings. The next account will take 1/98 of his holdings, and so on.

So we can see that the small guy ends up paying more, percentage-wise, of his holdings just to maximize his voting power. This is why, imo, 1 NXT = 1 vote is the only fair way.

[pinarello]

Smaragda asked me to tell about my virtual² currency ran on top of Nxt blockchain and AM. Well, I'm launching a coin. It will be mined by GPUs (single SHA256 algo). It's just a proof-of-concept, but soon we could see a lot of altcoins based on this concept. Client soft will be written in HTML+CSS+JS.

is there a link or thread?

Pin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=415580.0

 

Care to translate it somewhere in the future?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Care to translate it somewhere in the future?

I'll do it when finish. I'm going to take part in AM contest.