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Author Topic: DIY FPGA Mining rig for any algorithm with fast ROI  (Read 94726 times)
xs.over
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December 02, 2018, 10:07:58 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2018, 08:56:51 PM by xs.over
 #1901

Why do you think CVP-13 would cannibalize VCU/BCU earnings? The price/performance ratio is almost the same (+/- 30%).
Because there are not that many algorithms coins that can be mined only on cvp13 and can sustain a thousand of these devices.
board based on dual arria 10  (comparable with bcu1525 by logic resources and  performance at a half price) is coming to market very soon. so bcu1525 owners are already loose 2x in terms of hash cost

Currently the most profitable algorithm on BCU makes $11 per day:
this is a tricky example because only a few hundreds fpga bords mining these algorithms atm. almost all BCU1525 units are on lyra2z bitstream with 3 bucks/day income
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December 02, 2018, 10:36:33 PM
 #1902

and looks to have an ROI of about 290-330 days in the current market.
All these profit/ROI estimations are useless. We are clearly remember advertised earnings/roi level of vcu/bcu1525 back in May-Jun, a lot of gullible people fell for those beautiful numbers and spend tons of money.
Nowadays fpga mining hardware market is flooded. vcu/bcu1525 owners barely seeing $5-6/day income, this is 2+ year roi atm. And bcu1525 profit for sure will be more and more cannibalized by cvp13, and all other upcoming fpga boards. And we are not even taking into account probability of algo forking on big altcoins
It reminds me how ASIC manufacturers advertising their new devices.
Showing current profit level, not taking into account growth of network hash rate and difficulty, which are skyrocket after the manufacturer ships thousands of brand new devices to customers. After a few months these devices barely cover electricity cost and become doorstoppers.
I want to repeat: nowadays mainly only miming hardware manufacturers and hardware resellers earn money in crypto mining  sphere.
This is a game where  miners will always lose, doesn't matter what kind of hardware: ASICs, FPGA or any other specialized hw
In near time we'll see more and more coins forks with asic, fpga resistant algos.


Don’t you come talking sense in here. /s. Trust me they don’t want to hear it or maybe they don’t want others to hear. Hmmmm. Anyway appreciate your post it’s spot on.  It’s game over except for manufacturers and their buddies. I called it out early on but it always seems to fall on deaf ears.  I bet they wish I’d just lost money tucked tail and ran.  Nope. I’m gonna make sure they get heir money’s worth from me!

BR

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
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December 02, 2018, 10:41:55 PM
 #1903


CVP-13 won't cannibalize much because most CVP owners will mine RB3 which isn't available on any other card.




which coins are on RB2,3 and 4 anyway?
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December 03, 2018, 12:04:06 AM
 #1904

https://store.mineority.io/

Mineority couldn't make it. Sorry for anyone that signed with them.

Squirrels, FPGA.land, Zetheron will be next. They are all connected.

Anyone that hasn't got their refund for the 1525's, better hurry. They all are probably bleeding out.

Too bad the little guys can't compete with Bitmain, etc. Check out the F1 FPGA miners. Clearly looks like Bitmain.

12 algos to choose from....not waiting on 1 dude to come out with a stream at double the price for a unit.
From the discord most of the BCUs got shipped, so I don't understand that sensence about refunds...

Hmmm. I'm not reading discord.  But they haven't shipped my order from June 7th yet.  Originally supposed to ship in September.  Guess I'm not part of the "most" group.


Just got my 2 BCU's.  Also ordered early in June, but opted for the waterblock version, not realizing what a delay that might cause.  So thank you Senseless, this wasn't a scam, didn't think it ever was.  I am going to say that FPGALand/Mineority/AllMine/Squirrels back and forth got very confusing.  Customers want to deal with one face, one company.
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December 03, 2018, 03:19:58 AM
 #1905

https://store.mineority.io/

Mineority couldn't make it. Sorry for anyone that signed with them.

Squirrels, FPGA.land, Zetheron will be next. They are all connected.

Anyone that hasn't got their refund for the 1525's, better hurry. They all are probably bleeding out.

Too bad the little guys can't compete with Bitmain, etc. Check out the F1 FPGA miners. Clearly looks like Bitmain.

12 algos to choose from....not waiting on 1 dude to come out with a stream at double the price for a unit.
From the discord most of the BCUs got shipped, so I don't understand that sensence about refunds...

Hmmm. I'm not reading discord.  But they haven't shipped my order from June 7th yet.  Originally supposed to ship in September.  Guess I'm not part of the "most" group.


Just got my 2 BCU's.  Also ordered early in June, but opted for the waterblock version, not realizing what a delay that might cause.  So thank you Senseless, this wasn't a scam, didn't think it ever was.  I am going to say that FPGALand/Mineority/AllMine/Squirrels back and forth got very confusing.  Customers want to deal with one face, one company.

I have 4 on order with no special cooling.  It sounds like Senseless is supporting customers much better than SQRL.  I have asked several times and they are always waiting for Xilinx to ship.  Sad

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December 03, 2018, 08:01:30 AM
 #1906

same to me: card without any special cooling, not shipped yet.

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December 06, 2018, 05:11:44 PM
 #1907

https://store.mineority.io/

Mineority couldn't make it. Sorry for anyone that signed with them.

Squirrels, FPGA.land, Zetheron will be next. They are all connected.

Anyone that hasn't got their refund for the 1525's, better hurry. They all are probably bleeding out.

Too bad the little guys can't compete with Bitmain, etc. Check out the F1 FPGA miners. Clearly looks like Bitmain.

12 algos to choose from....not waiting on 1 dude to come out with a stream at double the price for a unit.
From the discord most of the BCUs got shipped, so I don't understand that sensence about refunds...

Hmmm. I'm not reading discord.  But they haven't shipped my order from June 7th yet.  Originally supposed to ship in September.  Guess I'm not part of the "most" group.


Just got my 2 BCU's.  Also ordered early in June, but opted for the waterblock version, not realizing what a delay that might cause.  So thank you Senseless, this wasn't a scam, didn't think it ever was.  I am going to say that FPGALand/Mineority/AllMine/Squirrels back and forth got very confusing.  Customers want to deal with one face, one company.

When it got shipped, did you get an email or say "Shipped" on the SQRL dashboard? Just curious...
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December 11, 2018, 04:26:25 AM
 #1908

Mine shipped today from SQRL!  I received an email with subject line: "Your order has been shipped!"

Their web site also shows shipped.  Fedex tracking shows Wednesday delivery.
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December 11, 2018, 06:45:55 AM
 #1909

and looks to have an ROI of about 290-330 days in the current market.
All these profit/ROI estimations are useless. We are clearly remember advertised earnings/roi level of vcu/bcu1525 back in May-Jun, a lot of gullible people fell for those beautiful numbers and spend tons of money.
Nowadays fpga mining hardware market is flooded. vcu/bcu1525 owners barely seeing $5-6/day income, this is 2+ year roi atm. And bcu1525 profit for sure will be more and more cannibalized by cvp13, and all other upcoming fpga boards. And we are not even taking into account probability of algo forking on big altcoins
It reminds me how ASIC manufacturers advertising their new devices.
Showing current profit level, not taking into account growth of network hash rate and difficulty, which are skyrocket after the manufacturer ships thousands of brand new devices to customers. After a few months these devices barely cover electricity cost and become doorstoppers.
I want to repeat: nowadays mainly only miming hardware manufacturers and hardware resellers earn money in crypto mining  sphere.
This is a game where  miners will always lose, doesn't matter what kind of hardware: ASICs, FPGA or any other specialized hw
In near time we'll see more and more coins forks with asic, fpga resistant algos.


SQRL did exactly this with their Acorn "Accelerator" cards.......  People have been waiting for months on their miner after being advertised figures on increased hashrate and decreased power consumption.
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December 11, 2018, 04:12:24 PM
 #1910

Why are people buying these cards? Aren't the only ones who make money the ones who develop their own bitstreams? Feels like eating very expensive leftovers.
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December 11, 2018, 06:40:59 PM
 #1911

Why are people buying these cards? Aren't the only ones who make money the ones who develop their own bitstreams? Feels like eating very expensive leftovers.

We bought them 5 or 6 months ago when the return showed more promise. The problem is that they are just getting delivered now in a way down market.
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December 11, 2018, 07:11:34 PM
 #1912

And here's the crazy part they are just getting delivered and now the coin devs are doing what they can to make sure fpga's and asic's dont mine on their chains so the fpga's are going to be fighting with asic for profits
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December 12, 2018, 12:12:12 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #1913

And here's the crazy part they are just getting delivered and now the coin devs are doing what they can to make sure fpga's and asic's dont mine on their chains so the fpga's are going to be fighting with asic for profits

It's fair to say there will be more profitability challenges for FPGAs as coin developers stand up for their values.  However, I wouldn't say FPGAs will fight with ASICs for profits.  The two are simply in different spheres of influence. 

I think what will happen is that the FPGA developments will drive a further evolution of various coin projects.  There will be coin projects that adapt and overcome according to anti-FPGA/ASIC ideology and there will be coins that fail to adapt despite having the same ideology.  This will mean people will see which coin projects hold true to their word which could also affect future coin performance.  Or... the coin may perform well despite caving in to FPGA mining interests. 

Meanwhile, there could be even newer coin projects who continue to use algorithms that are known to be mined by FPGAs.  FPGAs represent a legitimate hashing capability which also equates to security and development of various coin networks.  We see this all the time with coins releasing on one ASIC/FGPA minable coin or another.

It's all good in my opinion.  CPU, GPU, FPGA, ASIC... doesn't matter.  Some people will be satisfied with one or the other.  Some satisfied with all.  Some will laugh at other people for their choices.  But if a blockchain is successful... I mean... Who cares what mining tech was used?  I don't.

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m5
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December 12, 2018, 03:13:39 PM
 #1914

And here's the crazy part they are just getting delivered and now the coin devs are doing what they can to make sure fpga's and asic's dont mine on their chains so the fpga's are going to be fighting with asic for profits
Which coins specifically are against FPGAs? For example even XMR is not entirely against FPGA. MBC for example is working on a fork against ASIC right now but is welcoming FPGAs.
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December 12, 2018, 07:24:15 PM
 #1915

You sure about XMR welcoming FPGAs?
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December 12, 2018, 08:16:36 PM
 #1916

Why do you think CVP-13 would cannibalize VCU/BCU earnings? The price/performance ratio is almost the same (+/- 30%).
Because there are not that many algorithms coins that can be mined only on cvp13 and can sustain a thousand of these devices.
board based on dual arria 10  (comparable with bcu1525 by logic resources and  performance at a half price) is coming to market very soon. so bcu1525 owners are already loose 2x in terms of hash cost

Currently the most profitable algorithm on BCU makes $11 per day:
this is a tricky example because only a few hundreds fpga bords mining these algorithms atm. almost all BCU1525 units are on lyra2z bitstream with 3 bucks/day income

https://www.nicehash.com/algorithm/lyra2z

0.007 BTC/GH/day

0.06 * 0.007 = 0.00042 btc = $1.5
$1 after power
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December 12, 2018, 09:08:47 PM
 #1917

With the completion of the allmine cryptoshell for the Bittware CVP-13 we will be getting back into bitstream development. We have 3 designs that will be released shortly from community developers, but their profitability is nothing amazing. We will start putting together our Phi2 design which will hopefully be released in the next 1-2 weeks. There is more to come, but I don't want to say what at this time.

Most of the developers don't have a lot of base code to work from. We've offered to open up our code base to them if they'd release through the shell as well as provide BCU-1525 units for completion of designs. Unfortunately, that still hasn't attracted a lot of developer attention. Many of those claiming to be fpga developers on discord have disappeared  Roll Eyes.

Why are people buying these cards? Aren't the only ones who make money the ones who develop their own bitstreams? Feels like eating very expensive leftovers.

Here's a question for you..

There are about 5000 BCU-1525 in the wild, 1000 CVP-13s coming, 500-1000 VCU-1525, BTU9Ps, various clones, etc out there.

How many units would a developer need to own themselves for it to provide the same revenue as a 5% fee from the units that are already out there (which would additionally require no up front capital investment from the developer)? Answer: about 400... Which would cost them > $1.5M.

So, they can make a $1.5M investment and have the same revenue as not making ANY investment but just releasing their code. What would you do? I'm quite sure only an insane person would spend $1.5M to make the same amount of money as not spending $1.5M.


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December 12, 2018, 11:04:02 PM
Last edit: December 12, 2018, 11:17:30 PM by tsik
 #1918

With the completion of the allmine cryptoshell for the Bittware CVP-13 we will be getting back into bitstream development. We have 3 designs that will be released shortly from community developers, but their profitability is nothing amazing. We will start putting together our Phi2 design which will hopefully be released in the next 1-2 weeks. There is more to come, but I don't want to say what at this time.

Most of the developers don't have a lot of base code to work from. We've offered to open up our code base to them if they'd release through the shell as well as provide BCU-1525 units for completion of designs. Unfortunately, that still hasn't attracted a lot of developer attention. Many of those claiming to be fpga developers on discord have disappeared  Roll Eyes.

Why are people buying these cards? Aren't the only ones who make money the ones who develop their own bitstreams? Feels like eating very expensive leftovers.

Here's a question for you..

There are about 5000 BCU-1525 in the wild, 1000 CVP-13s coming, 500-1000 VCU-1525, BTU9Ps, various clones, etc out there.

How many units would a developer need to own themselves for it to provide the same revenue as a 5% fee from the units that are already out there (which would additionally require no up front capital investment from the developer)? Answer: about 400... Which would cost them > $1.5M.

So, they can make a $1.5M investment and have the same revenue as not making ANY investment but just releasing their code. What would you do? I'm quite sure only an insane person would spend $1.5M to make the same amount of money as not spending $1.5M.



What about private bitstreams? Wouldn't it be more profitable to just release the code?
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December 12, 2018, 11:18:36 PM
 #1919

With the completion of the allmine cryptoshell for the Bittware CVP-13 we will be getting back into bitstream development. We have 3 designs that will be released shortly from community developers, but their profitability is nothing amazing. We will start putting together our Phi2 design which will hopefully be released in the next 1-2 weeks. There is more to come, but I don't want to say what at this time.

Most of the developers don't have a lot of base code to work from. We've offered to open up our code base to them if they'd release through the shell as well as provide BCU-1525 units for completion of designs. Unfortunately, that still hasn't attracted a lot of developer attention. Many of those claiming to be fpga developers on discord have disappeared  Roll Eyes.

Why are people buying these cards? Aren't the only ones who make money the ones who develop their own bitstreams? Feels like eating very expensive leftovers.

Here's a question for you..

There are about 5000 BCU-1525 in the wild, 1000 CVP-13s coming, 500-1000 VCU-1525, BTU9Ps, various clones, etc out there.

How many units would a developer need to own themselves for it to provide the same revenue as a 5% fee from the units that are already out there (which would additionally require no up front capital investment from the developer)? Answer: about 400... Which would cost them > $1.5M.

So, they can make a $1.5M investment and have the same revenue as not making ANY investment but just releasing their code. What would you do? I'm quite sure only an insane person would spend $1.5M to make the same amount of money as not spending $1.5M.



What about private bitstreams? Wouldn't it be more profitable to just release the code?

It depends on how much was over-paid for the private bitstreams, but in most cases, yes, it would be more profitable to just release the code. The person buying the bitstream doesn't know if someone else will invent the same and take their earnings before they've recovered. The developer has to trust the person who bought it won't try to resell it and cut the developer out. The person who buys it isn't sure if the developer will sell it to others.

Seems like a risky proposition all around versus releasing it and being sure they'll get some fee % of the mining.

A lot of what people have been talking about regarding this has been fud. Some is truth or at least based on truth. Obviously larger customers have been trying to acquire 'private bitstreams'; wouldn't you if you were them? But, I'm not sure they fully appreciate the situation of how much they'd have to pay to get that 'privately'. Some are buying 'private' bitstreams that are sold to many of these customers, all of them thinking they're the only one  Roll Eyes.

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December 12, 2018, 11:26:13 PM
 #1920

Thanks for a lengthy explanation.
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