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Author Topic: Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner  (Read 36799 times)
NetfetMiningCompany
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May 05, 2018, 02:12:19 AM
 #221

Cant stop evolution. ASIC are made for mining. More companies just need to get involved to make the products affordable. GPUs are crap to use for mining. Im constantly RMA'ing cards in large amounts. 7 this week alone. They ALWAYS break. Sucks if you have a big operation. What are people going to do. Fork every time a new ASIC comes out? This fight against them is unrealistic and petty. Companies need to embrace the tech, and solidify networks with better machines. The most vocal are the smaller miners. Sorry....People with money will run the industry. Dont hate a computer because a monopolizing company. You just look stupid hating an inanimate object thats just a calculator. When you can buy asics for the price/availability of GPUs, EVERYONE will use them. Anyone who is serious about mining will switch. Anyone who says they wont, are full of crap. GPUs need to be replaced. Texas Instruments are pioneers in this industry. Its funny, people talk crap about how bitcoin tech is old and useless, while GPUs are getting the same way. People are using power sucking AMD 2 series cards for mining FFS.  ASIC will be the future. All algos will have chips. Its natural computer evolution. It happens to EVERY computer. If anyone denies this fact, they are clearly not as smart as they are making themselves out to be. GPUs were a nice bandaid. Not a resolution.

what makes you think the ASIC you buy from Bitmain is any better in component quality?
You're missing one of the core feature of a crypto currency => decentralization.
ASIC might be affordable now but in few years the only ASICs manufactured will cost USD 20k => decentralization, hands down and soon you'll have only big corps controlling your crypto.

Anyone have some idea how the hell is bitmain made first ethereum asic and now for equihash,did they make some new chip that can be reprogramed?Yeah i get it that they made a lot of money last year and that can spend it on devs but i am more interested if there is new chip because it can probably be used on most algos and kill gpu mining Undecided Also good luck to those who got in on the first batch

ASICs are not reprogrammable only FPGAs are.

Things arent as decentralized as you think they are. The flaw in this argument is that people with money still own GPU warehouses, also causing this issue. All of the GPU coins have the same type of facilities as ASIC coin operations. There is literally no difference between the two. Peole with money, and the GPU mining pools own the hash. Pools literally tell people to stop mining on their pools to spread hashrate. The only issue here is a monopoly. Or just being a "cool kid" and not really understanding the issue. Do you not realize that GPU mining pools are causing the same problem? 3/4 of suprnova are GPU coins and they dominate networks. So how is suprnova different then bitmain as far as hashrate superiority?

A GPU is limited in hashing capability.  Also, there is a limit to which how many GPUs one can run in a warehouse.  storage space, cooling requirements, power, maintenance costs all add up.  
Even if a big corp owns multiple data centers they can't outrun millions of GPUs mining from a desktop/small rig
Regarding pools; they dominate networks because of the users of the pool.  But that dominance can be changed by users compared to big corps controlling stuff.

I dunno man. Hash is hash. It doesnt matter what produces it. If someone wants a specific amount, they get it. Wheather its 5, 10, a 1000 gpus. It doesnt matter. What you said just proves how obsolete GPU mining is. Its a huge drain. Hell, this will free up a lot more power since the wattage is so crazy. I dont see how anyone can see GPU mining as a positive. Especially when it comes to environmental concern. 300w vs 25 GPUs worth of power? I mean come on now.

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May 05, 2018, 02:16:15 AM
 #222

I dunno man. Hash is hash. It doesnt matter what produces it. If someone wants a specific amount, they get it. Wheather its 5, 10, a 1000 gpus. It doesnt matter. What you said just proves how obsolete GPU mining is. Its a huge drain. Hell, this will free up a lot more power since the wattage is so crazy. I dont see how anyone can see GPU mining as a positive. Especially when it comes to environmental concern. 300w vs 25 GPUs worth of power? I mean come on now.
If that's the case mine with a cellphone?  Yup agreed on GPU mining isn't positive at all in terms of power usage.
On contrary large mining farms should ideally invest in solar power harvesting.
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May 05, 2018, 02:16:46 AM
 #223

Cant stop evolution. ASIC are made for mining. More companies just need to get involved to make the products affordable. GPUs are crap to use for mining. Im constantly RMA'ing cards in large amounts. 7 this week alone. They ALWAYS break. Sucks if you have a big operation. What are people going to do. Fork every time a new ASIC comes out? This fight against them is unrealistic and petty. Companies need to embrace the tech, and solidify networks with better machines. The most vocal are the smaller miners. Sorry....People with money will run the industry. Dont hate a computer because a monopolizing company. You just look stupid hating an inanimate object thats just a calculator. When you can buy asics for the price/availability of GPUs, EVERYONE will use them. Anyone who is serious about mining will switch. Anyone who says they wont, are full of crap. GPUs need to be replaced. Texas Instruments are pioneers in this industry. Its funny, people talk crap about how bitcoin tech is old and useless, while GPUs are getting the same way. People are using power sucking AMD 2 series cards for mining FFS.  ASIC will be the future. All algos will have chips. Its natural computer evolution. It happens to EVERY computer. If anyone denies this fact, they are clearly not as smart as they are making themselves out to be. GPUs were a nice bandaid. Not a resolution.

what makes you think the ASIC you buy from Bitmain is any better in component quality?
You're missing one of the core feature of a crypto currency => decentralization.
ASIC might be affordable now but in few years the only ASICs manufactured will cost USD 20k => decentralization, hands down and soon you'll have only big corps controlling your crypto.

Anyone have some idea how the hell is bitmain made first ethereum asic and now for equihash,did they make some new chip that can be reprogramed?Yeah i get it that they made a lot of money last year and that can spend it on devs but i am more interested if there is new chip because it can probably be used on most algos and kill gpu mining Undecided Also good luck to those who got in on the first batch

ASICs are not reprogrammable only FPGAs are.

Things arent as decentralized as you think they are. The flaw in this argument is that people with money still own GPU warehouses, also causing this issue. All of the GPU coins have the same type of facilities as ASIC coin operations. There is literally no difference between the two. Peole with money, and the GPU mining pools own the hash. Pools literally tell people to stop mining on their pools to spread hashrate. The only issue here is a monopoly. Or just being a "cool kid" and not really understanding the issue. Do you not realize that GPU mining pools are causing the same problem? 3/4 of suprnova are GPU coins and they dominate networks. So how is suprnova different then bitmain as far as hashrate superiority?

A GPU is limited in hashing capability.  Also, there is a limit to which how many GPUs one can run in a warehouse.  storage space, cooling requirements, power, maintenance costs all add up.  
Even if a big corp owns multiple data centers they can't outrun millions of GPUs mining from a desktop/small rig
Regarding pools; they dominate networks because of the users of the pool.  But that dominance can be changed by users compared to big corps controlling stuff.



Watchew talkin' bout willis?  80 percent of people who spend 2K to build a mining rig cant spend 2K on an Asic?

Idk guy.   Bitmain isn't the only Asic producer.

Let's not be so douchey.  Cool   We're all in this together, Makaveli.


Check on pricing of the cryptonight ASIC miner.  12k was the markup price.  Now it's 2k.  If the coins didn't fork do you think they would've reduced the price?
Sure you get 220kH/s for 12k but this could also be 220kH/s for 60k?  Now how many would be able to shell out 60k if that was the only option available as an ASIC?

That's pure speculation.  I can't predict how many people would cough up 60K for an Asic.  Certainly not me.  

I don't think GPU mining will die soon, but they will be at disadvantage for some time to come, it seems.  
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May 05, 2018, 02:20:07 AM
 #224

I dunno man. Hash is hash. It doesnt matter what produces it. If someone wants a specific amount, they get it. Wheather its 5, 10, a 1000 gpus. It doesnt matter. What you said just proves how obsolete GPU mining is. Its a huge drain. Hell, this will free up a lot more power since the wattage is so crazy. I dont see how anyone can see GPU mining as a positive. Especially when it comes to environmental concern. 300w vs 25 GPUs worth of power? I mean come on now.
If that's the case mine with a cellphone?  Yup agreed on GPU mining isn't positive at all in terms of power usage.
On contrary large mining farms should ideally invest in solar power harvesting.

People do mine on cells. I did. Electroneum is geared towards it also. Its heading that way for sure. I can mine LTC with "Miner Pro" on Android. It can mine tons of coins. Useless to me. A person with a warehouse of old cells however...

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May 05, 2018, 02:24:19 AM
 #225


That's pure speculation.  I can't predict how many people would cough up 60K for an Asic.  Certainly not me.  

I don't think GPU mining will die soon, but they will be at disadvantage for some time to come, it seems.  

Bingo.  Exactly not you or me would invest is something like that.  But if they can price an ASIC at 12k (return of 1x) why not 60k (returns are 5x) and this is the only ASIC available.
But if we owned currency that could be mined with that particular ASIC who would control the mining network?

GPUs would never be priced like that.  GPUs have a wider audience and not specific to an application.


People do mine on cells. I did. Electroneum is geared towards it also. Its heading that way for sure. I can mine LTC with "Miner Pro" on Android. It can mine tons of coins. Useless to me. A person with a warehouse of old cells however...

Those users are paid out from a pre-mined set?  Once that's over what's it for mobile mining?
NetfetMiningCompany
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May 05, 2018, 02:29:34 AM
 #226


That's pure speculation.  I can't predict how many people would cough up 60K for an Asic.  Certainly not me.  

I don't think GPU mining will die soon, but they will be at disadvantage for some time to come, it seems.  

Bingo.  Exactly not you or me would invest is something like that.  But if they can price an ASIC at 12k (return of 1x) why not 60k (returns are 5x) and this is the only ASIC available.
But if we owned currency that could be mined with that particular ASIC who would control the mining network?

GPUs would never be priced like that.  GPUs have a wider audience and not specific to an application.


People do mine on cells. I did. Electroneum is geared towards it also. Its heading that way for sure. I can mine LTC with "Miner Pro" on Android. It can mine tons of coins. Useless to me. A person with a warehouse of old cells however...

Those users are paid out from a pre-mined set?  Once that's over what's it for mobile mining?

I couldnt predict the future for ya. The app i mentioned has a lot of different algorithms and it actually mines. My only point is that its possible. If a person can make money from it, they will do it. Even if it takes stringing along a 100 cells. All electroneum will do is introduce the possibility to a plethora of new developers who are ignorant of crypto. Whos to say after that.

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May 05, 2018, 02:44:17 AM
 #227

I think we are seeing that Bitmain is finally achieving massive economies of scale. Having said that, I'm blown away at the performance, wattage, and price. Seems like it should be far more expensive but nonetheless, I bought one because you have to--my gpus are already paid off so if I sell off three to finance it, big deal.
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May 05, 2018, 03:16:47 AM
 #228

And this surprises none as everyone pretty much suspected and called it that Equihash was next.  Would guess that the next most profitable algo after Equihash is next on the block and probably already being mined by Bitmain.
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May 05, 2018, 03:29:53 AM
 #229

And this surprises none as everyone pretty much suspected and called it that Equihash was next.  Would guess that the next most profitable algo after Equihash is next on the block and probably already being mined by Bitmain.

Bet its NeoScrypt or Lyra

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May 05, 2018, 03:32:53 AM
 #230

something is just odd about this. let me elaborate.

the E3 is priced at 2000-2400. it mines like a 6 card rig and costs about the same as one

this new z9 is like 12 grand in GPUs but only priced at 2k? if bitmain sold 12k in gpu's they would be asking at least 9-10k for it

sooo what gives? are they just expecting a fork? at current this thing is what? a 45 day ROI which is something i have never seen since i have been in crypto. did this ever exist years back?

the price to performance just seems out of line

You will only ROI in 45 days if you are the only one to use this asic
Don't forget that at the moment you turn on your asic, 9.999 anothers Asics are turning on to  Grin

even if you do this the ROI is miles ahead of anything else on the market

i don't understand why some of you are trying to break down the oh no it's not 45 days it's like 70-90 when either argument reaches the same conclusion. they have one miner with an ROI lightyears above anything else out there on their site or GPU land. it doesn't make sense. something is missing from the equation. either they expect dev. forks or they expect a dump and massive difficulty increase and or prices are going to rise on this asic before launch.

what searing points out above was basically the elaborated version of my full thought process

I'm not defending this crap, people will not have ROI ins 45 days or even 70-90
About the price, who knows?
We are talking about bitmain, not a good company

Don`t forget Bitmain are building a huge farm on US and they will mine with the best asics, and then they will sell to trolls over and over

i agree. bitmain is basically the poster child of centralization. i think we all know they own a HUGE amount of bcash but they likely own a fking ton of bitcoin and litecoin as well. their business model seems very straight forward to me. keep prices of said coins high enough to be profitable. sell asics. reap massive profits. difficulty goes up, rinse and repeat with the next gen. this can be done as far to the future as i can look. all they have to do is make sure coin prices rise accordingly. with the billions in profit they rake in and the float on coins like bitcoin so small. i mean between them, the twins and what's been lost how many are really left to float?  
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May 05, 2018, 03:33:44 AM
 #231

And this surprises none as everyone pretty much suspected and called it that Equihash was next.  Would guess that the next most profitable algo after Equihash is next on the block and probably already being mined by Bitmain.

Bet its NeoScrypt or Lyra

x2
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May 05, 2018, 06:17:38 AM
 #232

In what case it is centralization to use Bitmain's ASICs?
There are still no masternodes in coins like BTCP, so why mining system will get centralized??

BTC: 13xhPuVUQRczkxdX6F9FBYREdemBMn7UPx
BTCP: b1NyaHebmoD8oSJwLpCABe8XyPktkL3nJdE
LTC: LVhDnj23hgignWzEdqG78d5uasY5RDtnya
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May 05, 2018, 06:39:54 AM
 #233

I wonder why they have built an ASIC so quickly for Equihash.

It was introduced in Nov 2016 unlike ETH which came out in 2015.

I think since it requires slightly less memory it made it easy to make an ASIC for. Since these days most GPUs can mine Equihash, no matter how much GDDR they contain.

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May 05, 2018, 06:45:48 AM
 #234

i wonder who will buy those asics? people saw already what happened with cryptonigh asics..
is they want to repeat this situation? I'm sure the some batches of those equihash miners are already in work, this will bring bitmain a lot of profits, but they mine quietly,  but now time has come to earn some money on fresh customers by selling them used asics.. weird.. I hope fork will bring those asics down!
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May 05, 2018, 07:22:25 AM
 #235

i wonder who will buy those asics? people saw already what happened with cryptonigh asics..
is they want to repeat this situation? I'm sure the some batches of those equihash miners are already in work, this will bring bitmain a lot of profits, but they mine quietly,  but now time has come to earn some money on fresh customers by selling them used asics.. weird.. I hope fork will bring those asics down!
Why not buy them when already main equihash coin wont do nothing to fight those asics(zec)?They are masive improvment when it comes to making mining more efficient and those who buy in on the first batch of any bitmain asics(except cryptoknight)are always making nice $ return or fast roi
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May 05, 2018, 08:29:41 AM
 #236

i wonder who will buy those asics? people saw already what happened with cryptonigh asics..

Already rich people like McAfee who want to turn crypto into a corporate's game. Not home users that's for sure.

On the cryptonight thing, do we know if these coins like BTCP or BitcoinGold gonna fork? Zcash won't be doing it, as devs already told us.




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May 05, 2018, 08:54:56 AM
 #237

bitmain kill us

every day they do new ASIC

 that will kill our GPUS

and make the mining not profitable

so what we will with our rigs

all coin team must do hard fork to kill bitmain

 
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May 05, 2018, 10:33:41 AM
 #238

bitmain kill us

every day they do new ASIC

 that will kill our GPUS

and make the mining not profitable

so what we will with our rigs

all coin team must do hard fork to kill bitmain

 

This will never happen. You are better than those of the miners who bought asics? They have the same rights. I'm against asics, too, but it's a reality that needs to be recognized. Not cry? Buy yourself an asic or look for another algorithm to stay in this business. Money never gets easy.
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May 05, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
 #239

i wonder who will buy those asics? people saw already what happened with cryptonigh asics..
is they want to repeat this situation? I'm sure the some batches of those equihash miners are already in work, this will bring bitmain a lot of profits, but they mine quietly,  but now time has come to earn some money on fresh customers by selling them used asics.. weird.. I hope fork will bring those asics down!
Why not buy them when already main equihash coin wont do nothing to fight those asics(zec)?They are masive improvment when it comes to making mining more efficient and those who buy in on the first batch of any bitmain asics(except cryptoknight)are always making nice $ return or fast roi

It is not true, D3 was a disaster in ROI and returns. D3 was the worst miner that Bitmain do, and was overselled till X11 network dump.

Cheers W_M
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May 05, 2018, 01:42:27 PM
 #240

ZEC will be killed by shitmain.
GPUminers,welcome to XZC,

why fight against ASIC,i have GPU ,i can choose which coin to mine ,for current profit ,or for future.
if i buy a ASIC machine, when shitmain  manufacture more machines,or the coin dump,i have nothing todo,just look at the devaluation of the machine,and cannot return of investment.

Funnily enough, Equihash is still extremely profitable right now   Grin

And will remain profitable on GPUs 'till at least somewhere in July and more likely August, given the current total network hashrate vs. how much this miner will introduce at normal Bitmain batch sizes.

Remember, not shipping 'till late JUNE - but probably will kill GPU mining over time, unlike the E3 for Equihash that BARELY matches what a current well-tuned GPU rig can manage.


Not sure what you mean by barely matching, a 7 GPU Nvidia Rig using 3x the power hashes at best about 3k/sols a second, this thing says to be 300W @ 10k/sols

He said E3 , the antminer that mines EtHash ... You're talking about the Z9 that mines Equihash ... I think him saying the E3 mining equihash through you off

Whoops, missed that.

...and it's absolutely right on that regarding the E3, that's part of the reason I didn't buy an E3
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