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Author Topic: Transparent mining, or What makes Nxt a 2nd generation currency  (Read 35716 times)
Come-from-Beyond
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December 09, 2013, 09:58:22 AM
Last edit: December 09, 2013, 04:20:35 PM by Come-from-Beyond
 #1

Below u'll find a short description of Nxt mining system. The description is based on text written by BCNext, I paraphrase it in my own words to protect BCNext's real identity against text style analysis (as was agreed).

I want u to pay attention to a paper titled Decentralised Currencies Are Probably Impossible But Let’s At Least Make Them Efficient.

The author writes:
Quote
To match this to the notion of “decentralised” (i.e. lacking central authority), the consensus group must be, at least, all participants in the currency. This does not present any real problem when that group is known. For example, it would be possible to define the group as “all people currently in the United States”– where the currency would be something akin to the US Dollar. Assuming the majority decide to behave honestly (as seems likely, after all, that is what happens now), then they should have no difficulty in forming consensus on who has how much money at what time. However, the most general notion of decentralisation does not admit such re-strictions. After all, in some sense, placing any such restriction simply pushes the central authority back a layer: instead of controlling the currency, the authority controls membership of the consensus group. A system like this must allow any entity to participate, and to join and leave the scheme at will. And here lies the problem. If you can never know who is in the scheme (bear in mind that knowing who is in is also a consensus problem!), then you can never get agreement.

In Nxt this problem doesn't arise coz all participants (miners) r known. This is a side-effect of 100% proof-of-stake currency. So, let's move to the most interesting part...

As u may know, Bitcoin et al. can be attacked by an entity that possesses 51% of hashing power. 2 main scenarios r possible:
1. Part of the miners leave the "legit" branch of the blockchain and start mining their own branch.
2. Someone buys/produces mining equipment and starts mining secret branch.

The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network. Let's look closer at the 1st scenario.

Yesterday the average base target was ~700%. This means that only 1/7 of all stakeholders were generating blocks, we can't say if the rest 6/7 were hit by bus or trying to fork Nxt blockchain. This is in the current Nxt implementation. BCNext is satisfied with the results shown during last 2 weeks and now is going to adjust the mining algo a little bit to make it transparent.

What does this transparency mean? It means that anyone can predict (with very high probability) who and when will generate next block(s). And this gives us superior advantages:
1. Transactions can be sent directly to the miner who will mine the next block (if he decides to reveal his location on the Internet), thus saving traffic and coming much closer to VISA/MasterCard processing volumes.
2. Blocks can be generated in advance and sent to most of the miners before they become valid (timestamp validation), thus greatly reducing rate of orphaned blocks.
3. Due to ability to predict timestamps of future blocks (rate of blocks) it becomes possible to set appropriate fees to assure quick confirmations for important transactions (without paying too much for inclusion into a block).

And the most important feature:
The network can detect which miners don't take part in block generation and act accordingly.

The last point deserves to be described with more details.

Imagine someone is going to do a "51%" attack against Nxt and he owns 90% of all coins. The adversary must stop generating blocks for legit branch coz he won't be able to compete against 100% mining power with his 90%. So he decides to "skip" his turn to generate a block. The rest 10% of the network detects this and penalizes the adversary by setting his mining power to 0 and distributing it among other miners. Now the network is back to 100% power coz everyone got 10-fold increase. The adversary can mine other branch in a secret place but it won't be able to replace the legit branch. Of course, the 2nd branch will have 100% "hashing" power tied to it as well, coz the attacker will get his 90% bumped to 100% but this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus (still not revealed).

As a 100% PoS currency Nxt is protected against a government wealthy entity that could buy/produce a lot of ASICs, with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.

So, what does make Nxt a really next-gen currency? Not those nice features like decentralized exchange, or decentralized DNS, or decentralized app store. The transparent mining algo does, and this is only the 1st part of BCNext's plan...



This is a short description. Ask questions that will help to make the description more clear.

PS: Cunicula, BCNext is waiting for ur approval on this.

Edit: BCNext pointed out that I forgot to mention Selfish Mining. Sorry. Transparent mining solves the selfish mining issue completely. Dixi.
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December 09, 2013, 10:29:33 AM
 #2


with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.


Will this affect the price?

How to define "most of the coins". Of course it shoud not be 51%, so how about 5%?
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December 09, 2013, 10:31:19 AM
 #3

I'm not sure I catch what the particular implications of that last part are. Is there a specific penalty for not mining?

Non-mining stakeholders get temporary penalty to their ability to mine.
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December 09, 2013, 10:31:42 AM
 #4

Interesting plan, but does it needed to be implemented right now? It seems that Hallmarks, introduced in the v.0.3.15, can secure the Nxt for a quite long time. And maybe right now decentralized exchange (first in history) is more important for Nxt to survive against an emerging competitors.

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December 09, 2013, 10:33:06 AM
 #5


with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.


Will this affect the price?

How to define "most of the coins". Of course it shoud not be 51%, so how about 5%?


Dunno about the price.

Most of the coins is 90%+, maybe even 99%.
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December 09, 2013, 10:35:12 AM
 #6

Interesting plan, but does it needed to be implemented right now? It seems that Hallmarks, introduced in the v.0.3.15, can secure the Nxt for a quite long time. And maybe right now decentralized exchange (first in history) is more important for Nxt to survive against an emerging competitors.

BCNext decided to implement transparent mining step-by-step. This is more important than decentralized exchange, imo. It's like quality (mining) vs quantity (exchange).
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December 09, 2013, 10:37:14 AM
 #7


with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.


Will this affect the price?

How to define "most of the coins". Of course it shoud not be 51%, so how about 5%?


Dunno about the price.

Most of the coins is 90%+, maybe even 99%.

yeah, so it is an absoultely secure network. However, I care about Nxt distribution right now. How will those 5% react?
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December 09, 2013, 10:38:27 AM
 #8

yeah, so it is an absoultely secure network. However, I care about Nxt distribution right now. How will those 5% react?

Which 5%?
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December 09, 2013, 10:40:58 AM
 #9

yeah, so it is an absoultely secure network. However, I care about Nxt distribution right now. How will those 5% react?

Which 5%?

Those who owns ~ 5% of the total coins.
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December 09, 2013, 10:53:20 AM
 #10

I'm not sure I catch what the particular implications of that last part are. Is there a specific penalty for not mining?

Non-mining stakeholders get temporary penalty to their ability to mine.

Brilliant. So this system would introduce something like what mining pools have against pool hopping?
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December 09, 2013, 11:04:39 AM
 #11

yeah, so it is an absoultely secure network. However, I care about Nxt distribution right now. How will those 5% react?

Which 5%?

Those who owns ~ 5% of the total coins.


If they miss their chance to mine a block they'll be penalized. Stakeholders r supposed to protect Nxt, not just sit and wait for 1 NXT = 1,000,000 USD day.

NB: The only penalty is inability to mine blocks within some period of time. They still can decide not to bother with mining, but their "hashing" power will be distributed to those who do protect the network.
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December 09, 2013, 11:06:52 AM
 #12

I'm not sure I catch what the particular implications of that last part are. Is there a specific penalty for not mining?

Non-mining stakeholders get temporary penalty to their ability to mine.

Brilliant. So this system would introduce something like what mining pools have against pool hopping?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with pool hopping.
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December 09, 2013, 11:33:08 AM
 #13

I'm not sure I catch what the particular implications of that last part are. Is there a specific penalty for not mining?

Non-mining stakeholders get temporary penalty to their ability to mine.

Brilliant. So this system would introduce something like what mining pools have against pool hopping?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with pool hopping.

Pool-hopping is the practice of mining in a pool only during the good times, and leaving during the bad times; by so doing, a pool-hopper can get more out of the pool than the value he contributes to it, increasing his rewards at the expense of other miners.

PPLNS favors constant and/or occasional loyal pool members over pool hoppers.
http://pool-x.eu/aboutpplns

Although very different because this is POS and no new coins are created it is comparable?
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December 09, 2013, 11:35:16 AM
 #14

Although very different because this is POS and no new coins are created it is comparable?

I think no.
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December 09, 2013, 12:17:42 PM
 #15


NB: The only penalty is inability to mine blocks within some period of time. They still can decide not to bother with mining, but their "hashing" power will be distributed to those who do protect the network.

Due to the redistribution of "hashing power", is there any chance for someone who holds less than 50% attack the network?

Say, 50% of the coins are "dead" (never mining), the max of which holds 27% of total coins. Now the other 50% coins are mining, and the max holding of which is 26% of the total coins, will this 26% ( more than 50% of the redistribution power) attack the network? Is the network monitoring the maximum "alive power"? Hmm, very interesting, the dynamic PoS mining power network!

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December 09, 2013, 12:24:19 PM
 #16

yeah, so it is an absoultely secure network. However, I care about Nxt distribution right now. How will those 5% react?

Which 5%?

Those who owns ~ 5% of the total coins.


If they miss their chance to mine a block they'll be penalized. Stakeholders r supposed to protect Nxt, not just sit and wait for 1 NXT = 1,000,000 USD day.


There is still some diligent stakeholders now mining and protecting the network, so they are always richer and richer. It is different from Peercoin, which is an open and maybe a little inflation system, and the rich and poor always get richer at the same rate. But Nxt is a closed and constant coin system. It the distribution problem can't handle properly, Nxt can't get mass adoption, which does hurt the stakeholders.

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December 09, 2013, 12:26:48 PM
 #17


NB: The only penalty is inability to mine blocks within some period of time. They still can decide not to bother with mining, but their "hashing" power will be distributed to those who do protect the network.

Due to the redistribution of "hashing power", is there any chance for someone who holds less than 50% attack the network?

Say, 50% of the coins are "dead" (never mining), the max of which holds 27% of total coins. Now the other 50% coins are mining, and the max holding of which is 26% of the total coins, will this 26% ( more than 50% of the redistribution power) attack the network? Is the network monitoring the maximum "alive power"? Hmm, very interesting, the dynamic PoS mining power network!

Mm... I lost in ur numbers.
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December 09, 2013, 12:27:46 PM
 #18

It the distribution problem can't handle properly, Nxt can't get mass adoption, which does hurt the stakeholders.

So be it.
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December 09, 2013, 01:16:21 PM
 #19

It the distribution problem can't handle properly, Nxt can't get mass adoption, which does hurt the stakeholders.

So be it.
Grin
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December 09, 2013, 03:11:55 PM
 #20

This is great! You guys are doing an amazing job

Looking forward to the future of this coin

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December 09, 2013, 04:02:46 PM
 #21

Seems fair to me , but what if I'm having problems with installing the client?  or don’t want install the client for security reasons? can  I still mine with the online version?

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December 09, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
 #22

only 1/7 of stakeholders were forging?

I was about to make the following comment in the regular thread:

Quote
at the very least, the stakeholders that havent distributed at good portion of their stash yet should not forge.  At least then it would give a chance to the regular blow here to forge.

At least in the beginning here, until there is a better distribution.  I know the stability and security of the network does depend on many active forgers, but come on...

but I guess its a non-issue now
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December 09, 2013, 04:11:27 PM
 #23

"Transparent" on a closed source system. Hilarious.

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December 09, 2013, 04:16:43 PM
 #24

Amazing.  This is very slick. Ive linked to your thread here on nextcoin.org and stickied it over there.  

Also, can you define the term "stakeholder" as it pertains to just the topic in this post?  I kind of think what you really mean are just accounts with an inordinary high amount of NXT.  If not how can the system determine who the original stakeholders are?

What if a non-stakeholder buys 10M NXT, and has more than some stakeholders who have been distributing coins?  Will they get penalized for not forging?

How long does the system penalize a stakeholder by giving them 0 forging power to those who arent generating blocks?
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December 09, 2013, 04:18:51 PM
 #25

"Transparent" on a closed source system. Hilarious.

I was curious how long till u find this thread. Smiley Looking forward to see ur comments after the 3rd of January.
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December 09, 2013, 04:20:52 PM
 #26

BCNext pointed out that I forgot to mention Selfish Mining. Sorry. Transparent mining solves the selfish mining issue completely. Dixi.
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December 09, 2013, 04:21:35 PM
 #27

Seems fair to me , but what if I'm having problems with installing the client?  or don’t want install the client for security reasons? can  I still mine with the online version?

Yes, u can.
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December 09, 2013, 04:25:48 PM
 #28

Also, can you define the term "stakeholder" as it pertains to just the topic in this post?  I kind of think what you really mean are just accounts with an inordinary high amount of NXT.  If not how can the system determine who the original stakeholders are?

Stakeholder = anyone who owns at least 1 smallest unit of NXT.


How long does the system penalize a stakeholder by giving them 0 forging power to those who arent generating blocks?

Details r yet to be tweaked after peer review.
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December 11, 2013, 06:31:38 PM
 #29

Really like this idea, keep em coming!
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December 11, 2013, 08:48:49 PM
 #30

I think this is a great news for the nxt coin.

But am I getting things right ? For me this sounds like a "round-robin" coin generation. Everyone will get their time slice in which he's able to mine/generate coins. If his client is not open/connected to the network, network will search another node and give it the right to mine ?

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December 11, 2013, 09:02:29 PM
 #31

I think this is a great news for the nxt coin.

But am I getting things right ? For me this sounds like a "round-robin" coin generation. Everyone will get their time slice in which he's able to mine/generate coins. If his client is not open/connected to the network, network will search another node and give it the right to mine ?

Aye, something like that.
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December 13, 2013, 06:38:04 AM
 #32

Hi All!

I'm reading.. reading.... and I'm lost: finally they allow NXT mining or not?
And if yes, then what do I need to start mining?
Account registered, exists some small amount in wallet... What next? How to enable mining / generating nxtcoins?

Thanks!

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December 13, 2013, 06:40:07 AM
 #33

Hi All!

I'm reading.. reading.... and I'm lost: finally they allow NXT mining or not?
And if yes, then what do I need to start mining?
Account registered, exists some small amount in wallet... What next? How to enable mining / generating nxtcoins?

Thanks!

Just leave ur account unlocked.
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December 13, 2013, 10:29:20 AM
 #34

Hi All!

I'm reading.. reading.... and I'm lost: finally they allow NXT mining or not?
And if yes, then what do I need to start mining?
Account registered, exists some small amount in wallet... What next? How to enable mining / generating nxtcoins?

Thanks!


If you want to mine anything at this point you'll need to shell out at least 5-6 BTC for 1mil Nxt at current rates and then also wait for network to grow to get more fees. Just like when ASICs came to Bitcoin. It's a big risky bet but also big potential rewards.

As a plus ASIC you buy today will never rise in value while Nxt might go ballistic. Or it will crash to 0 & burn in flames.  Grin Once again: it's one big gamble.
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December 13, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
 #35

Are there any specific memory requirements for the JVM if I wanna mine?
What ports I need to open on the firewalls?

+1
Where is the mining chapter in the howto Smiley?

I know, I know ppl who's too stupid to find these things out by disassembling the classes and reading the code don't deserve to mine this stuff  Cheesy.


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December 13, 2013, 11:29:18 AM
Last edit: January 13, 2014, 02:41:22 PM by superresistant
 #36

If you want to mine anything at this point you'll need to shell out at least 5-6 BTC for 1mil Nxt at current rates and then also wait for network to grow to get more fees. Just like when ASICs came to Bitcoin. It's a big risky bet but also big potential rewards.
As a plus ASIC you buy today will never rise in value while Nxt might go ballistic. Or it will crash to 0 & burn in flames.  Grin Once again: it's one big gamble.

It is very likely to go ballistic in my opinion.

Are there any specific memory requirements for the JVM if I wanna mine?
What ports I need to open on the firewalls?
+1
Where is the mining chapter in the howto Smiley?
I know, I know ppl who's too stupid to find these things out by disassembling the classes and reading the code don't deserve to mine this stuff  Cheesy.

You can set the memory parameters with command line on Java
port 7874
To mine, just put coin on the wallet and stay online.

EDIT :
- 7874 (tcp) is used for P2P communication, the http web client and API commands.  This is the only port that needs to be open to run Nxt.
- 7875 (tcp) is used for the https web client.
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December 13, 2013, 11:49:56 AM
 #37

You can set the memory parameters with command line on Java
port 7875
To mine, just put coin on the wallet and stay online.

Thanks. I know how to tune the heap sized but I'm not sure if my "-Xms256m -Xmx1024m" will be good enough. Am I need to do anything with GCs or just leave all these things alone?
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December 13, 2013, 03:29:18 PM
 #38

You can set the memory parameters with command line on Java
port 7875 7874
To mine, just put coin on the wallet and stay online.

Thanks. I know how to tune the heap sized but I'm not sure if my "-Xms256m -Xmx1024m" will be good enough. Am I need to do anything with GCs or just leave all these things alone?

you were just given incorrect info.  DO NOT open port 7875 on your router.  the p2p port is 7874.

the 2 of you guys should edit your posts to correct this
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December 21, 2013, 10:21:59 AM
 #39

Seems fair to me , but what if I'm having problems with installing the client?  or don’t want install the client for security reasons? can  I still mine with the online version?

Yes, u can.
Where is this online version?  Also is there a way to do cold storage?  I understand that means I won't generate fee coins.

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December 21, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
 #40

Where is this online version?  Also is there a way to do cold storage?  I understand that means I won't generate fee coins.

U have to find a public server that doesn't block access. I used to provide one but now it's used to host a special version with Asset Exchange.

To store coins in cold just send them to an account that u don't use. U must send at least 1 NXT to any account from cold account to reserve ur account id.
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December 21, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
 #41

Where is this online version?  Also is there a way to do cold storage?  I understand that means I won't generate fee coins.

U have to find a public server that doesn't block access. I used to provide one but now it's used to host a special version with Asset Exchange.

To store coins in cold just send them to an account that u don't use. U have to send at least 1 NXT to any account though to reserve ur account id.
So generating an address can only be done by downloading the client and running it?  And once done and Nxt recieved I can erase it?  And after to retrieve coins I simply start up the new client with same pass phrase?

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December 21, 2013, 10:31:28 AM
 #42

So generating an address can only be done by downloading the client and running it?  And once done and Nxt recieved I can erase it?  And after to retrieve coins I simply start up the new client with same pass phrase?

Yes.
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December 21, 2013, 10:37:51 AM
 #43

Why the price is going up? I sold yesterday, now its x3 ?


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December 21, 2013, 10:39:51 AM
 #44

Why the price is going up? I sold yesterday, now its x3 ?

Anon136 published his review of Nxt mining algo.
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December 21, 2013, 10:42:51 AM
 #45

Why the price is going up? I sold yesterday, now its x3 ?

Anon136 published his review of Nxt mining algo.

Oh thanks.


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December 21, 2013, 12:01:35 PM
 #46

Does the client still mine/forge if the lock button on the account is closed or it has to stay open?

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December 21, 2013, 12:18:39 PM
 #47

Does the client still mine/forge if the lock button on the account is closed or it has to stay open?

It has to stay open. But u can close the browser.
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December 21, 2013, 11:54:24 PM
 #48

Does the client still mine/forge if the lock button on the account is closed or it has to stay open?

It has to stay open. But u can close the browser.
Where can I read about the security aspects of running it this way?

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December 23, 2013, 05:13:11 PM
 #49

Quote
The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network.

Why?

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December 23, 2013, 05:35:30 PM
 #50

Quote
The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network.

Why?

Err, because no NXTs exist outside the network. Supply of NXT is limited.
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December 23, 2013, 05:41:23 PM
 #51

Quote
The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network.

Why?

Err, because no NXTs exist outside the network. Supply of NXT is limited.

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

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December 23, 2013, 05:43:54 PM
 #52

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.
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December 23, 2013, 05:45:24 PM
 #53

I like this about Nxt:

In order to mine, you have to invest in Nxt, not in computer hardware.  
And when you sell some amount of your Nxt for Bitcoin (or whatever), you lose that amount of your ability to mine.

So it gets the usual pump-n-dump miners coming, and going.  In order to mine, they have to support the price by buying and holding.  And when they cash out, they lose their ability to mine.  So there's no jumping in and out the way multipools usually do, and the kind of disruption that causes simply doesn't happen.

It's also less unfair than the usual mining setup because it doesn't reward centralization.  If you some amount in mining Nxt, you get the same mining power per money invested as someone who invests any other amount in Nxt, where with most PoW coins you get substantially more than a fair share of blocks as you invest more money.

I like these features, but I bet P&D miners just hate 'em.  In fact, without the enthusiastic support of the "early miner" crowd, I wonder how nxt has even gotten past launch.

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December 23, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
 #54

Of course, I dislike this about Nxt: 

Closed source code.  I like the mining algorithm, but absolutely cannot run closed-source from someone who would be hard to sue, for anything that involves a substantial amount of money. 
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December 23, 2013, 05:55:24 PM
 #55

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?

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December 23, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
 #56

Of course, I dislike this about Nxt: 

Closed source code.  I like the mining algorithm, but absolutely cannot run closed-source from someone who would be hard to sue, for anything that involves a substantial amount of money. 

There are a lot of Java programmers on this board. Ask any and they will disassemble .class files, the files r not obfuscated. Ppl who say that Java binaries is closed source understand nothing in Java (well, they shouldn't).
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December 23, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
 #57

I like these features, but I bet P&D miners just hate 'em.  In fact, without the enthusiastic support of the "early miner" crowd, I wonder how nxt has even gotten past launch.

I wouldn't like to comment on this before understanding the coin but --

dgex.com

Quote from: dE_logics
How do you prove the authenticity of this site?

It maybe that the NXT author just inflated the prices (cause he's also owning the website) and took BTC for a crypto which has no value.

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December 23, 2013, 06:00:34 PM
 #58

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?

Ah, sorry, lost myself.

With transparent mining we should talk about 90% attack. 51% attack can't be conducted coz the other 49% will stick to "legit" chain. I wish I could explain this but my English is too little for that. Sad
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December 23, 2013, 07:03:11 PM
 #59

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?
Mining and owning BTC are two separate activities.  In Nxt they are not.  Assuming Nxt works as advertised double spends appear to be impossible.

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December 24, 2013, 03:37:37 AM
 #60

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

You mean there's no incentive to fork the chain?

Remember, original question is the meaning of "Outside the network".

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December 24, 2013, 03:42:23 AM
 #61

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?
Mining and owning BTC are two separate activities.  In Nxt they are not.  Assuming Nxt works as advertised double spends appear to be impossible.

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?

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December 24, 2013, 03:44:22 AM
 #62

Also can you explain 'base target'?

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December 24, 2013, 03:49:42 AM
 #63

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?
Mining and owning BTC are two separate activities.  In Nxt they are not.  Assuming Nxt works as advertised double spends appear to be impossible.

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?
If he spends them how will he mine the next blocks?

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December 24, 2013, 04:55:47 AM
 #64

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

But we were talking about 51% attacks here. You mean the mining system is such that the block chain cannot be forked?
Mining and owning BTC are two separate activities.  In Nxt they are not.  Assuming Nxt works as advertised double spends appear to be impossible.

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?
If he spends them how will he mine the next blocks?

He'll not spend them, he'll hold them and use to create a forked block chain with false transactions (double spending the transactions which resulted in 95% of coins being with him).

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December 24, 2013, 05:05:21 AM
 #65

Perhaps CfB can give an answer to that question.  I don't see how you can make a double spend with pure PoS but I'm no expert.

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December 24, 2013, 05:51:50 AM
 #66

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?

He will be able to do that.

PS: I can't get what the problem with "Outside the network". Could u paraphrase the question, please?
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December 24, 2013, 05:58:17 AM
 #67

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?

He will be able to do that.

PS: I can't get what the problem with "Outside the network". Could u paraphrase the question, please?

You said --

Quote
The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network. Let's look closer at the 1st scenario.

The 2nd scenario can be applied by someone possessing 91% or more of coins; this's similar to having a lot of 'mining equipment' or tools to mine coins. For Bitcoins it's ASIC miners, for Litecoins it's the graphics cards, for Quarks it's the CPU and for for PPcoin and NXT it's the currency themselves.

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December 24, 2013, 07:36:54 AM
 #68

Perhaps CfB can give an answer to that question.  I don't see how you can make a double spend with pure PoS but I'm no expert.

Oh, yes you can. And it's not that hard (for regular PoS coins, not this one).

Quote
You need to run a full node in order for the wallet to mine blocks based on PoS and it should be up always; how many people will do that? (especially when the interest rate is low)? When these coins will be made popular, 90% people will run paper wallets giving power to the hands of these 10%; thus an attack may not be that hard to do.

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December 24, 2013, 07:39:19 AM
 #69

See the question is how. Assuming an attack is 91%; suppose someone owns 95% coins, how will he not be able to create a forked chain which double spends coins?

He will be able to do that.

PS: I can't get what the problem with "Outside the network". Could u paraphrase the question, please?

You said --

Quote
The 2nd scenario can't be applied to Nxt, coz no NXTs exist outside the network. Let's look closer at the 1st scenario.

The 2nd scenario can be applied by someone possessing 91% or more of coins; this's similar to having a lot of 'mining equipment' or tools to mine coins. For Bitcoins it's ASIC miners, for Litecoins it's the graphics cards, for Quarks it's the CPU and for for PPcoin and NXT it's the currency themselves.

I meant that unlike Bitcoin et all. noone could bring extra mining power from outside.
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December 24, 2013, 07:58:28 AM
 #70

It would be very difficult to obtain over 90% of Nxt.  No more Nxt will ever be created and not very many people are selling.


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December 24, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
 #71

I know.

I was just clarifying.

So let's move on to the next question.

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December 24, 2013, 03:01:54 PM
 #72

Also can you explain 'base target'?

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December 24, 2013, 03:56:46 PM
 #73


Base target is a quotient that shows current difficulty. Each miners has a target that equals to BaseTarget*Balance.
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December 24, 2013, 05:32:12 PM
 #74


Base target is a quotient that shows current difficulty. Each miners has a target that equals to BaseTarget*Balance.

So the incentive to mining blocks is the transaction fee.

Like with regular PoS, the more coins you hold for a longer period, the more the chance of mining a block.

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December 24, 2013, 07:57:55 PM
 #75

Like with regular PoS, the more coins you hold for a longer period, the more the chance of mining a block.

No. Ur algo is flawed. BCNext used other algo.
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December 25, 2013, 04:05:20 PM
 #76

Like with regular PoS, the more coins you hold for a longer period, the more the chance of mining a block.

No. Ur algo is flawed. BCNext used other algo.

Then can someone please explain?

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December 25, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
 #77

Then can someone please explain?

Ur chance to forge a block depends on BaseTarget (which is the same for all), TimeSinceLastBlock (which is the same for all) and ur account balance:

Code:
Chance = BaseTarget * TimeSinceLastBlock * Balance
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December 26, 2013, 03:39:45 AM
 #78

Then can someone please explain?

Ur chance to forge a block depends on BaseTarget (which is the same for all), TimeSinceLastBlock (which is the same for all) and ur account balance:

Code:
Chance = BaseTarget * TimeSinceLastBlock * Balance

Ok, it does not depend on how long you old the coins.

On what basis will the difficulty increase? May large holders of the coin?

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December 26, 2013, 05:45:47 AM
 #79

The difficulty would just need to be proportional to the number of coins being used for mining.  Anyway, it doesn't probably need to adjust more than once per a long enough period for the money supply to change significantly.  The description is that the factor due to time since the last block is exponential - ie, it doubles once a minute or something like that.  So even if there's twice as many coins being used for mining, block times only get one minute shorter.   And even if 75% of the coins used for mining are taken offline, the block times would get only two minutes longer. 

There's probably no real need for difficulty to change more often than new versions of the client come out.  That said, there may be a feedback mechanism that does the difficulty changes built-in, but I wouldn't worry if there isn't.
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December 26, 2013, 08:30:57 AM
 #80

Thanks for the explanation.

Quote
Yesterday the average base target was ~700%. This means that only 1/7 of all stakeholders were generating blocks, we can't say if the rest 6/7 were hit by bus or trying to fork Nxt blockchain.

This means that with increasing difficulty, instead of reducing the probability of the low valued stake holders to mine blocks, the algorithm cuts off their chance of mining the blocks completely. Now with difficulty 700% (e.g.), only 1/7th of the total coin holders who have the maximum held coins will be able to generate a block. The algorithm cuts out the 6/7th cause they don't have enough balance.

The list of the top 1/7th holder of coins can be generated and so the future miner of the block can be predicted.

Is this correct?

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December 26, 2013, 08:36:32 AM
 #81

Is this correct?

No. Nxt forging works the same way as Bitcoin does. U can mine a block even with CPU, chance is very low, but reward is very high. In the long run everyone will get exactly the same ROI.
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December 26, 2013, 05:57:10 PM
 #82

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?
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December 26, 2013, 06:25:03 PM
 #83

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.
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December 26, 2013, 06:34:56 PM
 #84

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.

Ohh, that's one of the wrong answers.  That's just saying "not my problem" which means you have no solution.  I was actually thinking this would work until you failed to answer that.

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December 26, 2013, 06:46:18 PM
 #85

not sure if this has been asked, but if transparent miing allows the network to know who will generate the next block, then what is to keep our adversary from also finding out who it is and then DDOSing the ever living hell out that client?

If a forging node can't handle much traffic it can forge behind Tor.

Ohh, that's one of the wrong answers.  That's just saying "not my problem" which means you have no solution.  I was actually thinking this would work until you failed to answer that.

I know that u just trolling. Welcome to the box with other trolls.
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December 26, 2013, 06:48:11 PM
 #86

Nxt just flew passed Mastercoin's marketcap  Grin

As I understand it, the difference in function between Mastercoin and Nxt is that Mastercoin requires BTC to function whereas Nxt could replace BTC entirely.
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January 01, 2014, 10:01:17 PM
 #87

"Outside the network", do you mean the block chain cannot be forked?

I mean that unlike ASICs, that can be created by someone, noone can create NXT coins (which r like ASICs in PoS currency) and bring them into the system.

I think the question is:

What happens if someone has the NXT source code, creates a new genesis block and creates and entirely new NXT network, with an entirely new supply of NXT (on this second network), with a completely new block chain that is longer than the NXT one, then joins the NXT network?

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January 01, 2014, 10:13:20 PM
 #88

What happens if someone has the NXT source code, creates a new genesis block and creates and entirely new NXT network, with an entirely new supply of NXT (on this second network), with a completely new block chain that is longer than the NXT one, then joins the NXT network?

Nothing. He won't be able to catch the blocks nor able to push his own blocks/transactions.
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January 01, 2014, 10:50:20 PM
 #89

So it's closed source but as someone pointed out, it is possible to decompile that.

But as I understand it, individual 'miners' take turns approving transactions, so what prevents people from making it so that every time it is their turn to mine, they transfer coins from a wallet that doesn't belong to them to their own wallet and then approve the transaction?

Also, what kind of speed is there for confirmation time?  If you could beat litecoin's transaction time..  I think that alone would be a reason everyone would turn to Nextcoin and seems possibly doable given the unique mining system.

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January 01, 2014, 11:12:02 PM
 #90

So it's closed source but as someone pointed out, it is possible to decompile that.

Aye.


But as I understand it, individual 'miners' take turns approving transactions, so what prevents people from making it so that every time it is their turn to mine, they transfer coins from a wallet that doesn't belong to them to their own wallet and then approve the transaction?

It's impossible to take coins from someone else wallet.


Also, what kind of speed is there for confirmation time?  If you could beat litecoin's transaction time..  I think that alone would be a reason everyone would turn to Nextcoin and seems possibly doable given the unique mining system.

1 min between blocks.
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January 01, 2014, 11:43:00 PM
 #91

It's impossible to take coins from someone else wallet.

What makes it impossible?  I guess we simply won't know until the source code is released, at which point I could see someone hacking it, but sounded to me like for each transaction, potentially only one person could be confirming the transaction at a time.  If you are the only one confirming and have shady motives what prevents you from inserting fake transactions?


Still wish it was faster.. I liked a 5 second block because I want a coin that can be used for grocery store transactions with confirmation which doesn't require waiting for a minute for checkout but still very nice regarding 1 min block!  At least it's more than double litecoin's speed.

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January 01, 2014, 11:48:06 PM
 #92

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.
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January 02, 2014, 12:21:12 AM
 #93

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.

Yeah, I wanted to ask this for a while. The avarage blocks per day are somewhere below 800. Why is that?
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January 02, 2014, 07:04:13 AM
 #94

Also this post is talking about instant transaction mode: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347927.0

Could you tell me how that works?  Thanks!

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January 02, 2014, 07:08:44 AM
 #95

What makes it impossible?  I guess we simply won't know until the source code is released, at which point I could see someone hacking it, but sounded to me like for each transaction, potentially only one person could be confirming the transaction at a time.  If you are the only one confirming and have shady motives what prevents you from inserting fake transactions?


Still wish it was faster.. I liked a 5 second block because I want a coin that can be used for grocery store transactions with confirmation which doesn't require waiting for a minute for checkout but still very nice regarding 1 min block!  At least it's more than double litecoin's speed.

Sorry, I don't have time to tell u basic things. U should read more about Cryptography and Bitcoin, and then we'll continue the discussion. Ok?
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January 02, 2014, 07:10:15 AM
 #96

1 min between blocks.

what mechanism is it that causes the timing to drift? sometimes there are blocks every few seconds, sometimes every 15 mins, etc.

Yeah, I wanted to ask this for a while. The avarage blocks per day are somewhere below 800. Why is that?

Timing drifts due to stochastic nature of forging. Average blocks per day is below 800 coz of high rate of orphaned blocks.
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January 02, 2014, 07:10:44 AM
 #97

Also this post is talking about instant transaction mode: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347927.0

Could you tell me how that works?  Thanks!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0
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January 02, 2014, 03:09:11 PM
 #98

Thanks Come-from-Beyond..  yeah, reading as fast as I can about this stuff, just got into the game a couple weeks ago.  probably time to focus some energy on understanding how the actual low-level hashing works.  I'm definitely going to jump into the code when released and see if I can figure it out.

One more quick question though, as I understand it, it is possible to predict which machine(s) will be be forging the next block.  Once you know, you can DDOS them, which seems like it could cause big problems.  How much of a risk is that?

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January 02, 2014, 03:15:47 PM
 #99

One more quick question though, as I understand it, it is possible to predict which machine(s) will be be forging the next block.  Once you know, you can DDOS them, which seems like it could cause big problems.  How much of a risk is that?

CloudFlare solves this problem. U can forge using 5y-old notebook, all the traffic will be handled by 3rd party if u can't do it by urself.
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January 02, 2014, 04:10:50 PM
 #100


TF has been enabled about one day ago, but it seems that no real different from the older version from the client, of course I think the core in the client may be TF functionable. So for the average joe, how can we get some hint on TF which is working?
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January 02, 2014, 04:59:45 PM
 #101


TF has been enabled about one day ago, but it seems that no real different from the older version from the client, of course I think the core in the client may be TF functionable. So for the average joe, how can we get some hint on TF which is working?


This is partial migration.
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January 09, 2014, 09:11:41 AM
 #102

If they miss their chance to mine a block they'll be penalized. Stakeholders r supposed to protect Nxt, not just sit and wait for 1 NXT = 1,000,000 USD day.

NB: The only penalty is inability to mine blocks within some period of time. They still can decide not to bother with mining, but their "hashing" power will be distributed to those who do protect the network.

When will this penalty be implemented?
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January 09, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
 #103

If they miss their chance to mine a block they'll be penalized. Stakeholders r supposed to protect Nxt, not just sit and wait for 1 NXT = 1,000,000 USD day.

NB: The only penalty is inability to mine blocks within some period of time. They still can decide not to bother with mining, but their "hashing" power will be distributed to those who do protect the network.

When will this penalty be implemented?

No ETA yet.
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January 09, 2014, 09:35:12 AM
 #104

thx
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January 12, 2014, 11:57:17 PM
 #105

understand some little. Wink

 
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January 13, 2014, 08:15:42 PM
 #106

There is an issue in the "transparent mining" that I can not see clearly: if someone hides an alternative chain, how does it identify what is the good branch and what is bad. I can not find the formula to do possible this identification...

The only thing I can think is that the two chains evolve by its side, both with their private 100% of the currency involved in the generation of each block, and it would be possible setting one fork or more of the network...  Let we can say that the network is protected of attacks, but not for forks.  I dont know what is worst...

Maybe I have not the data which is measured to determine the valid chain, I dont know if it is the greatest amount of currency, coin-age, or what...

You said: "this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus..."  But I thing that in the moment that we talk about consensus, we have the 51% problem over the table again...

One more thing: NXT
http://www.nxt.cool
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January 13, 2014, 08:17:05 PM
 #107

...You said: "this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus..."  But I thing that in the moment that we talk about consensus, we have the 51% problem over the table again...

Yes, when will we hear more of this?  It seems if it is not addressed then there is a risk?  what is the state of things in this regard now?
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January 13, 2014, 08:20:57 PM
 #108

...You said: "this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus..."  But I thing that in the moment that we talk about consensus, we have the 51% problem over the table again...

Yes, when will we hear more of this?  It seems if it is not addressed then there is a risk?  what is the state of things in this regard now?

Every node is supposed to stick to a branch where his balance is higher. Extended consensus will be described in other parts of the plan, we have to wait.
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January 13, 2014, 08:24:17 PM
 #109

NXT is not fungible. The most basic feature required for any currency.
Bitcoin is fungible to millionth.
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January 13, 2014, 08:25:12 PM
 #110

I think the 51% attack is possible in PoS with or without "transparent mining", the advantage is that in PoS it is less likely than PoW...

One more thing: NXT
http://www.nxt.cool
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January 13, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
 #111

NXT is not fungible. The most basic feature required for any currency.
Bitcoin is fungible to millionth.

 Huh
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January 13, 2014, 08:27:48 PM
 #112

I think the 51% attack is possible in PoS with or without "transparent mining", the advantage is that in PoS it is less likely than PoW...

Let's wait for the full disclosure of Transparent Mining.
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January 13, 2014, 08:29:56 PM
 #113

NXT is not fungible. The most basic feature required for any currency.
Bitcoin is fungible to millionth.

 Huh

Can you send someone 0.001 NXTCOINS?
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January 13, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
 #114

I think the 51% attack is possible in PoS with or without "transparent mining", the advantage is that in PoS it is less likely than PoW...

Let's wait for the full disclosure of Transparent Mining.

I will wait, but the forks are an important problem in transparent mining...  

One more thing: NXT
http://www.nxt.cool
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January 13, 2014, 08:34:25 PM
 #115

Can you send someone 0.001 NXTCOINS?

No. But it will be possible in a couple of months.
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January 13, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
 #116

Can you send someone 0.001 NXTCOINS?

No. But it will be possible in a couple of months.

Biggest scamcoin of all time.
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January 13, 2014, 08:45:20 PM
 #117

Biggest scamcoin of all time.

Where do u all guys come from? I'm even tired to repeat:

- Thank u for ur competent opinion.
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January 13, 2014, 08:49:47 PM
 #118

Can you send someone 0.001 NXTCOINS?

No. But it will be possible in a couple of months.
Someone sent me some nxtcoins. I see it under my transactions. But the balance is still zero.
I did only one transaction , it shows the same thing 3 times.
It has got so many problems.
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January 13, 2014, 08:51:33 PM
 #119

How did you had an exchange ready even before releasing the coin??
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January 13, 2014, 09:01:38 PM
 #120

it wasnt up until a week or so after genesis block
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January 13, 2014, 09:13:47 PM
 #121

If I have to close my client each night for example how long will I get a "temporary penalty" to mine - a few minutes, hours?  I'm worried that closing the client at night will nullify my ability to mine the next day.
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January 13, 2014, 09:28:55 PM
 #122

If I have to close my client each night for example how long will I get a "temporary penalty" to mine - a few minutes, hours?  I'm worried that closing the client at night will nullify my ability to mine the next day.

1440 blocks in current design.
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January 13, 2014, 09:59:00 PM
 #123

If I have to close my client each night for example how long will I get a "temporary penalty" to mine - a few minutes, hours?  I'm worried that closing the client at night will nullify my ability to mine the next day.

Good question, I had the same question. Thanks for addressing it CfB

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January 13, 2014, 09:59:58 PM
 #124

If I have to close my client each night for example how long will I get a "temporary penalty" to mine - a few minutes, hours?  I'm worried that closing the client at night will nullify my ability to mine the next day.

1440 blocks in current design.

So if the temporary penalty to mine is 1440 blocks (24 hours) due having an account offline then it's not really worth it (in terms of forging) to bring the account online each morning as it will never surpass the penalty time.  This might be the situation for some people who want to forge.
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January 13, 2014, 10:40:37 PM
 #125

To store coins in cold just send them to an account that u don't use. U must send at least 1 NXT to any account from cold account to reserve ur account id.

What if I don't send any NXT to some other address but create 1 or more aliases, does that count as ID-reserving transaction(s)?

theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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January 13, 2014, 10:51:17 PM
 #126

To store coins in cold just send them to an account that u don't use. U must send at least 1 NXT to any account from cold account to reserve ur account id.

What if I don't send any NXT to some other address but create 1 or more aliases, does that count as ID-reserving transaction(s)?

yes, anything that causes you to spend NXT would generate a public key on the blockchain
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January 14, 2014, 03:48:54 AM
 #127

If I have to close my client each night for example how long will I get a "temporary penalty" to mine - a few minutes, hours?  I'm worried that closing the client at night will nullify my ability to mine the next day.

1440 blocks in current design.

No way. I forged some blocks just minutes/few hours after I reconnected the PC after closing it all the night.

I think he is speaking about the penalty when you send NxT to a new account.
Closing and opening client has no penalty.
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January 14, 2014, 06:44:46 AM
 #128

So if the temporary penalty to mine is 1440 blocks (24 hours) due having an account offline then it's not really worth it (in terms of forging) to bring the account online each morning as it will never surpass the penalty time.  This might be the situation for some people who want to forge.

Such people will lease their forging power to "pools".
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January 14, 2014, 06:45:37 AM
 #129

No way. I forged some blocks just minutes/few hours after I reconnected the PC after closing it all the night.

I think he is speaking about the penalty when you send NxT to a new account.
Closing and opening client has no penalty.

If u miss ur turn to forge a block u'll be penalized.
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January 14, 2014, 04:16:42 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2014, 04:46:07 PM by BitAddict
 #130

No way. I forged some blocks just minutes/few hours after I reconnected the PC after closing it all the night.

I think he is speaking about the penalty when you send NxT to a new account.
Closing and opening client has no penalty.

If u miss ur turn to forge a block u'll be penalized.

I didn't know about that :/
So it will be added in the future with TF
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January 16, 2014, 06:56:49 PM
 #131

Can you send someone 0.001 NXTCOINS?

No. But it will be possible in a couple of months.
4 digits planned? Or variable?

No way. I forged some blocks just minutes/few hours after I reconnected the PC after closing it all the night.

I think he is speaking about the penalty when you send NxT to a new account.
Closing and opening client has no penalty.

If u miss ur turn to forge a block u'll be penalized.
Mmm, 99.9999%-to-forge-next-block-target = "your turn" or something like this? And lowforgers'll extremely rare could be penalized in that case (almost never catch up to 90%+ before shutting down)?
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January 16, 2014, 07:22:02 PM
 #132

4 digits planned? Or variable?

No idea yet.


Mmm, 99.9999%-to-forge-next-block-target = "your turn" or something like this? And lowforgers'll extremely rare could be penalized in that case (almost never catch up to 90%+ before shutting down)?

What do u mean?
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January 17, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
 #133

I think, I understood. There'll be multiple 100%+ chances to forge a block for many different forgers at differernt timestamps in future, but network topology + forks'es successes'll decide a winner. Right?

And if winner'll be same forger as predicted at first place (predicted for sender), TF'll get 1 confirmation to last unconfirmed txs almost instantly. If not, senders'll have to wait some more time rebroadcasting.
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January 17, 2014, 09:38:38 AM
 #134

I think, I understood. There'll be multiple 100%+ chances to forge a block for many different forgers at differernt timestamps in future, but network topology + forks'es successes'll decide a winner. Right?

And if winner''ll be same forger as predicted at first place, TF'll get 1 confirmation to last unconfirmed txs almost instantly. If not, senders'll have to wait some more time rebroadcasting.

Aye
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January 27, 2014, 05:31:08 AM
 #135

with transparent forging, could a block forger choose to not send ANY transactions except its own, a block chock full of only his own transactions, and do so for free while completely ignoring everyone elses transactions?
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January 27, 2014, 09:48:35 AM
 #136

I think yes, but he also can include other unconfirmed transactions and get their fees. Why ignore money?
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January 27, 2014, 02:57:30 PM
 #137

just do be a dick.  we all know people like. that.  network disruption
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January 28, 2014, 02:11:24 PM
 #138

with transparent forging, could a block forger choose to not send ANY transactions except its own, a block chock full of only his own transactions, and do so for free while completely ignoring everyone elses transactions?

Yes, feel free to include only ur own transactions or none at all.
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January 28, 2014, 02:49:55 PM
 #139

with transparent forging, could a block forger choose to not send ANY transactions except its own, a block chock full of only his own transactions, and do so for free while completely ignoring everyone elses transactions?

Yes, feel free to include only ur own transactions or none at all.

am I the only one who doesnt like this?
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January 28, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
 #140

dumb question:

Can I forge a block,when port 7874 is closed on my router?
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January 28, 2014, 02:59:27 PM
 #141

with transparent forging, could a block forger choose to not send ANY transactions except its own, a block chock full of only his own transactions, and do so for free while completely ignoring everyone elses transactions?

Yes, feel free to include only ur own transactions or none at all.

am I the only one who doesnt like this?

The secret is that in the future each block will be forged by 2-3 accounts and they will have to compete. U will notice that ur blocks become orphaned too often if u include only ur transactions.
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January 28, 2014, 03:29:03 PM
 #142

dumb question:

Can I forge a block,when port 7874 is closed on my router?
I am successfully forging behind NAT and rooter without any port forwarding. Dunno if port is specially closed.
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January 28, 2014, 03:48:07 PM
 #143

dumb question:

Can I forge a block,when port 7874 is closed on my router?
I am successfully forging behind NAT and rooter without any port forwarding. Dunno if port is specially closed.

I wouldnt see why it would specifically be open.  all this means is that no peers can create connections to you - all connections you have are ones that you originate, first out to your wellknownpeers, and then to the peers they tell you about.
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January 28, 2014, 03:55:59 PM
 #144

Another dumb question with video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FTzBjy_8Q

Is it EXACTLY how forging works?
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January 28, 2014, 04:33:49 PM
 #145

dumb question:

Can I forge a block,when port 7874 is closed on my router?
I am successfully forging behind NAT and rooter without any port forwarding. Dunno if port is specially closed.

I wouldnt see why it would specifically be open.  all this means is that no peers can create connections to you - all connections you have are ones that you originate, first out to your wellknownpeers, and then to the peers they tell you about.
Yes, i think if you can connect to others 7874 port then you can forge.
Is it EXACTLY how forging works?
Well, yes, but of course that presentation is somewhat simplified and there are more technical details.
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January 28, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
 #146

dumb question:

Can I forge a block,when port 7874 is closed on my router?
I am successfully forging behind NAT and rooter without any port forwarding. Dunno if port is specially closed.

I wouldnt see why it would specifically be open.  all this means is that no peers can create connections to you - all connections you have are ones that you originate, first out to your wellknownpeers, and then to the peers they tell you about.
Yes, i think if you can connect to others 7874 port then you can forge.
Is it EXACTLY how forging works?
Well, yes, but of course that presentation is somewhat simplified and there are more technical details.

Starik, could please check your configuration of port 7874 at