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Author Topic: New Ixcoin fork -> I0coin  (Read 200357 times)
Mousepotato
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October 01, 2011, 11:49:11 PM
 #1281

I tried several deposits of i0 and ixcoins this morning.  The deposit of ixcoins directly from my wallet worked ok, but the deposits from my pool seem to be hung up.  Using block explorer they say "Not yet redeemed".  I don't get it.

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October 02, 2011, 09:54:46 AM
 #1282

Seems we have another lock up happening at block 58557.

Sure looks like it. I wish these things would be announced by the exchange.
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October 02, 2011, 11:11:43 AM
 #1283

Once again there was another double spend attempt on the exchange. The exchange closed block chain processing when it happened. As a result of these continued attacks I've had to close the exchange. As it says from the main page:
Quote
Deposits for I0Coin and Bitcoin have been suspended, along with trading. Due to low network power of the I0Coin chain over the last couple of weeks there have been attempts to do 51% double spend attacks. The exchange would stop processing the block chain when these were detected and users will have noticed this, as deposits/withdrawals were suspended while I investigate. I'd then re-open with a higher deposit confirmation limit.

Some of the double spends were successful and a total of 198 bitcoins were successfully taken from the exchange. This involved anonymous users operating over TOR depositing I0Coins, trading for bitcoins, withdrawing the bitcoins and reversing the original deposit.

Due to this loss and the risk involved in continuing to operating an exchange for a chain which has, or can easily get, an attacker with >51% of the power, I've closed the exchange. Please withdraw all bitcoins and I0Coins before 31 Oct 2011 12:00 UTC. You can reach the exchange operator at admin@bitparking.com if you have any questions. It's unfortunate that the actions of a few have to stop the exchange usage for many honest users.
The basic approach from the attacking user was to deposit about 120,000 I0Coins, sell them, withdraw the BTC then invalidate/remove the original deposit. All the successful attacks (totaling 198 bitcoins or so) were done by a user operating over TOR. The user used accounts with names like:
* youdozeek
* mooncoin
* ploti
* adolf
* mojimcheo

The bitcoin addresses that were withdraw too were:

* 13kf6BR32STEuW7FSKVbM3WNUcF6nqcP3q
* 1H3Zx5a7fTWnpt8pfZnwekQzQYb4497vWb
* 1AKxgg8jESUvooeHtNvaSQYhbPCyv7wYZF
* 1G8XACmUXoTF3FaA5bATSD3fnSR2WQXVJH
* 1PoUHcuTqoSiKupYzkQUbPHE4SwTPBT9Ht

If you were one of these users and don't believe you did a deliberate double spend, please get in touch.
worldinacoin
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October 02, 2011, 11:33:33 AM
 #1284

Is there no way to patch this problem once and for all? 
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October 02, 2011, 12:42:06 PM
 #1285

Is there no way to patch this problem once and for all? 
Stop alternate coins from starting? Smiley
Basically I'd expect this is happen to all alternate coins.
Some sooner than others.

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October 02, 2011, 01:01:16 PM
 #1286

Is there no way to patch this problem once and for all? 
Stop alternate coins from starting? Smiley
Basically I'd expect this is happen to all alternate coins.
Some sooner than others.

Some of them are 51% proof, like GG.
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October 02, 2011, 01:22:18 PM
 #1287

Maybe they should all patch and be like GG, it isn't safe to have to keep on having such 51% issues and stopping deposits and whatever.
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October 02, 2011, 01:57:29 PM
 #1288

Additionally with a working implementation to provide double spending abilities, it (the software) shall improve over time and be easily compatible with all p2p blockchains, including potentially even bitcoin blockchain if one or more individuals behind the implementation are able to accumulate enough processing power.
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October 02, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
 #1289

The withdraw function for IOC is locked up incidentally. And it might be nice to turn off the fees charged for people to withdraw their remaining funds.

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October 02, 2011, 02:08:01 PM
 #1290

From what I was reading "Some of the double spends were successful and a total of 198 bitcoins were successfully taken from the exchange. This involved anonymous users operating over TOR depositing I0Coins, trading for bitcoins, withdrawing the bitcoins and reversing the original deposit."

that's quite a large theft. Nearly a grand.

18jL18iH96BBhwUCQn27FQp7ocodSxvJAB
twobits
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October 02, 2011, 04:41:55 PM
 #1291

Is there no way to patch this problem once and for all? 
Stop alternate coins from starting? Smiley
Basically I'd expect this is happen to all alternate coins.
Some sooner than others.

Some of them are 51% proof, like GG.

GG is not 51% proof....  it is Time Warp bug fixed is all.

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October 02, 2011, 04:46:17 PM
 #1292

Once again there was another double spend attempt on the exchange. The exchange closed block chain processing when it happened. As a result of these continued attacks I've had to close the exchange. As it says from the main page:
Quote
Deposits for I0Coin and Bitcoin have been suspended, along with trading. Due to low network power of the I0Coin chain over the last couple of weeks there have been attempts to do 51% double spend attacks. The exchange would stop processing the block chain when these were detected and users will have noticed this, as deposits/withdrawals were suspended while I investigate. I'd then re-open with a higher deposit confirmation limit.

Some of the double spends were successful and a total of 198 bitcoins were successfully taken from the exchange. This involved anonymous users operating over TOR depositing I0Coins, trading for bitcoins, withdrawing the bitcoins and reversing the original deposit.

Due to this loss and the risk involved in continuing to operating an exchange for a chain which has, or can easily get, an attacker with >51% of the power, I've closed the exchange. Please withdraw all bitcoins and I0Coins before 31 Oct 2011 12:00 UTC. You can reach the exchange operator at admin@bitparking.com if you have any questions. It's unfortunate that the actions of a few have to stop the exchange usage for many honest users.
The basic approach from the attacking user was to deposit about 120,000 I0Coins, sell them, withdraw the BTC then invalidate/remove the original deposit. All the successful attacks (totaling 198 bitcoins or so) were done by a user operating over TOR. The user used accounts with names like:
* youdozeek
* mooncoin
* ploti
* adolf
* mojimcheo

The bitcoin addresses that were withdraw too were:

* 13kf6BR32STEuW7FSKVbM3WNUcF6nqcP3q
* 1H3Zx5a7fTWnpt8pfZnwekQzQYb4497vWb
* 1AKxgg8jESUvooeHtNvaSQYhbPCyv7wYZF
* 1G8XACmUXoTF3FaA5bATSD3fnSR2WQXVJH
* 1PoUHcuTqoSiKupYzkQUbPHE4SwTPBT9Ht

If you were one of these users and don't believe you did a deliberate double spend, please get in touch.

That sucks.  Sorry to hear that happened.  Neither of those chains had the time warp issue fixed did they?   Seems proof that needs to be fixed for any chain to be viable.  That and maybe also  merged mining.   I still think the idea of multiple chains is a good one in the long run.




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October 02, 2011, 05:07:55 PM
 #1293

Some of them are 51% proof, like GG.
GG isn't in any real danger, even if it's not 51-proof.

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d.james
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October 02, 2011, 11:09:58 PM
 #1294

glad i pulled the plug on this a while ago.

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Roll me back: 1NxMkvbYn8o7kKCWPsnWR4FDvH7L9TJqGG
doublec
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October 03, 2011, 01:28:12 AM
 #1295

The withdraw function for IOC is locked up incidentally. And it might be nice to turn off the fees charged for people to withdraw their remaining funds.
Withdrawals seem to be working - what do you mean they are locked up? The exchange still has to pay a withdrawal fee, especially as the wallet gets low on funds and hits fragmented addresses, so it doesn't make sense for it to turn it off and to incur an even greater loss than it already has.
doublec
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October 03, 2011, 01:39:40 AM
 #1296

That sucks.  Sorry to hear that happened.  Neither of those chains had the time warp issue fixed did they?   Seems proof that needs to be fixed for any chain to be viable.  That and maybe also  merged mining.   I still think the idea of multiple chains is a good one in the long run.
Right, none had the time warp issue fixed. That definitely needs to be fixed on new chains to make it harder for >51% exploits. Such an attacker can still do whatever they want though, it just takes longer. Merged mining helps if it means that large number of users will start mining, making it more difficult for someone to get >51%. Or finding a trusted pool to 'centralize' things for a while until growth happens. I agree that multiple chains are still a good thing and I still hope to work on pools/exchanges as the technology improves.

I don't think people should just delete their ix/i0 coin wallets. It's possible someone could fix the isues, re-release a client and the coins remain valid. It just requires a committed and interested developer to push things forward.
doublec
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October 03, 2011, 03:30:31 AM
 #1297

Sorry for your headache, but you still do not understand The Time Travel Exploit. The TTE and 51% attacks are not even related and have nothing to do with each other. You can fix TTE and will still be vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The only thing that solves the 51% per say is Network Hashrate.
I'm aware of this. Why do you think I'm not? There's nothing that can be done to avoid attacks by someone with greater than 50% hashrate (with current coin designs) since they can re-write the chain at will - all they need is time.
worldinacoin
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October 03, 2011, 03:50:31 AM
 #1298

Does that mean that even Bitcoin itself is vulnerable? Sad  But GG claims it is not vulnerable to the 51% vulnerability.  Can't Bitcoin implement what GG has done?

That sucks.  Sorry to hear that happened.  Neither of those chains had the time warp issue fixed did they?   Seems proof that needs to be fixed for any chain to be viable.  That and maybe also  merged mining.   I still think the idea of multiple chains is a good one in the long run.
Right, none had the time warp issue fixed. That definitely needs to be fixed on new chains to make it harder for >51% exploits. Such an attacker can still do whatever they want though, it just takes longer. Merged mining helps if it means that large number of users will start mining, making it more difficult for someone to get >51%. Or finding a trusted pool to 'centralize' things for a while until growth happens. I agree that multiple chains are still a good thing and I still hope to work on pools/exchanges as the technology improves.

I don't think people should just delete their ix/i0 coin wallets. It's possible someone could fix the isues, re-release a client and the coins remain valid. It just requires a committed and interested developer to push things forward.

@DoubleC

Sorry for your headache, but you still do not understand The Time Travel Exploit. The TTE and 51% attacks are not even related and have nothing to do with each other. You can fix TTE and will still be vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The only thing that solves the 51% per say is Network Hashrate.

Another huge fallacy.

Merged mining provides no protection for the unique exploits that exist in NMC. Merged mining will lower the threshold to less than 20% Network Hash Rate to successfully pull of a Double Spend Attack on Bitcoin. At this point in time, that is still more than 2.2 Tera Hashes /sec but don't underestimate rouge pools forming when a huge amount of BTC is on the table for the taking.

I have a feeling that when the Bitcoin community realizes that there is no real benefit for BTC and exposes BTC to some serious attacks, there will be a quick divorce.

For the record, I have no planned attacks against anyone but I am willing to bet that at block 19201 all hell breaks loose on NMC/BTC merged chain. The info has made it to all the worse places. Operators are standing by.
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October 03, 2011, 03:55:58 AM
 #1299

Does that mean that even Bitcoin itself is vulnerable? Sad  But GG claims it is not vulnerable to the 51% vulnerability.  Can't Bitcoin implement what GG has done?
Bitcoin is vulnerable to attacks involving a majority of computing power, yes. So is every other bitcoin-based chain. SolidCoin 2 claims to have solved it but there's no details on what they've done on that chain.
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October 03, 2011, 05:06:03 AM
 #1300

Thanks for the explanation, learning a lot from you guys, I guess I need to change my username Smiley


@Wisdomtool

GG is still vulnerable to 51%. If you weren't aware there were two versions of GG. GG1 and the current GG2.
Bitcoin and all of its descendents are vulnerable to 51%. No way around it.

ArtForz discovered a time stamp vulnerability in GG1 and posted it. I took it and enhanced it and was able to mine over 20,000 blocks of GG1 in less than 73 minutes with out a single orphan and without disturbing the original chain. I also discovered a vulnerability in NMC which is unique to NMC and still is. Unfortunately with myself and ArtForz discussing this in the forums other people were able to duplicate it. GG2 was relaunched and TTE was fixed. I tested it.

Rather than fix the problem the NMC Dev however concentrated on rushing out merged mining, which by the way provides no protection at all. The result of merged mining will be instead of requiring 11 Tera Hashes/sec to pull of a 51% attack on Bitcoin, it will now take less than 20% of the BTC/NMC combined chain or 2.2 TH/s, which is very doable.

The original Enhanced TTE NMC exploit is still there and merged mining will also invalidate lockins.

19201 in NMC will be the moment of truth for both BTC and NMC.
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