Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9

[philipma1957]

@ op

I would love to answer your pool but your choices are very limited.

Asics are being used to attack gpu coins.

I see that as do the rest of us.

So now the equihash algo is under attack.  By maybe two different asic miners.

So the leading coin is zcash and they are dancing bobbing and weaving around do we fork or not fork.

I would say he should not decide or tell anyone what he will do.
Then when the gear from bitmain ships he should fork and make the announcement that they won’t fork a second time if new asics are made.


Then in six months when some asic builder attacks zcash2 with asic2. He should fork again saying I changed my mind.  And I now have three algos ready for any new asics attacking zcash3.

This is a war asics against gpus.

And gpus losing the war means death for all coins in the long run.  It goes far beyond zcash.

Cryptocoins best year ever was 2017 and gpus were the driving force.

Not asics.  Then in 2018 gpus were shut down by gpu builders prices got jacked asics mined coins on the sneak.

All the gpu networks grew in Jan feb mar yet not many gpus were sold.  So zcash leaders should not be standup transparent deadly  honest.  Then need to bust a move that hurts the. Users of Equihash ASICs more then your pole.

Then need to keep us guessing.

[1714957888]

1714957888

[cryptomined]

@ op

I would love to answer your pool but your choices are very limited.

Asics are being used to attack gpu coins.

I see that as do the rest of us.

So now the equihash algo is under attack.  By maybe two different asic miners.

So the leading coin is zcash and they are dancing bobbing and weaving around do we fork or not fork.

I would say he should not decide or tell anyone what he will do.
Then when the gear from bitmain ships he should fork and make the announcement that they won’t fork a second time if new asics are made.


Then in six months when some asic builder attacks zcash2 with asic2. He should fork again saying I changed my mind.  And I now have three algos ready for any new asics attacking zcash3.

This is a war asics against gpus.

And gpus losing the war means death for all coins in the long run.  It goes far beyond zcash.

Cryptocoins best year ever was 2017 and gpus were the driving force.

Not asics.  Then in 2018 gpus were shut down by gpu builders prices got jacked asics mined coins on the sneak.

All the gpu networks grew in Jan feb mar yet not many gpus were sold.  So zcash leaders should not be standup transparent deadly  honest.  Then need to bust a move that hurts the. Users of Equihash ASICs more then your pole.

Then need to keep us guessing.

Thanks for your input phil.  poll is not aimed at trying to get zec co to do anything, its aimed at letting miners know they are scum.

[philipma1957]

@ op

I would love to answer your pool but your choices are very limited.

Asics are being used to attack gpu coins.

I see that as do the rest of us.

So now the equihash algo is under attack.  By maybe two different asic miners.

So the leading coin is zcash and they are dancing bobbing and weaving around do we fork or not fork.

I would say he should not decide or tell anyone what he will do.
Then when the gear from bitmain ships he should fork and make the announcement that they won’t fork a second time if new asics are made.


Then in six months when some asic builder attacks zcash2 with asic2. He should fork again saying I changed my mind.  And I now have three algos ready for any new asics attacking zcash3.

This is a war asics against gpus.

And gpus losing the war means death for all coins in the long run.  It goes far beyond zcash.

Cryptocoins best year ever was 2017 and gpus were the driving force.

Not asics.  Then in 2018 gpus were shut down by gpu builders prices got jacked asics mined coins on the sneak.

All the gpu networks grew in Jan feb mar yet not many gpus were sold.  So zcash leaders should not be standup transparent deadly  honest.  Then need to bust a move that hurts the. Users of Equihash ASICs more then your pole.

Then need to keep us guessing.

Thanks for your input phil.  poll is not aimed at trying to get zec co to do anything, its aimed at letting miners know they are scum.

As is the attack on gpu mining  by asic builders.

The most successful year ever  2017  was on the back of gpu mining  and the asic builders attack the gear that  created that success.

 Do I think zcash is a bad coin do i think they are scum?  I did see your youtube video.  It makes a good case.  I will wait and see what zcash really does before I decide they are scum or a clever fighter of the asic attacks on them..

[gameboy366]

Bitmain has a lot money. It could be that there was deal between them behind the scenes. I do believe that Bitmain secretly funds lots of cryptocurrency projects. Once the community builds they bring the ASICs to the market. Monero earned my respect with their forking decision.

Bitmain holds the bone with their ASICs while we are treated like dogs. Only support coins that support us.

[toptek]

I believe or that's how i feel atm  > ZEC co. Has Deceived and Misled GPU Miners.
I 'm not calling it a Scam yet but do feel we were mislead and lied to all for money .

Bitmain has a lot money. It could be that there was deal between them behind the scenes. I do believe that Bitmain secretly funds lots of cryptocurrency projects. Once the community builds they bring the ASICs to the market. Monero earned my respect with their forking decision.

Bitmain holds the bone with their ASICs while we are treated like dogs. Only support coins that support us.

it seems you have been following it and if what your saying is the case then they lied and mislead us .I was even told on another forum by the DEV that zec would stay Resistance to ASIC . when Zec started in a pass by post i can't find now , that was my main reason for mining Zec back then

Personally i supported Zcash network from beginning, but when Zocco did a statement that ASIC doesn't concern him and he wont stick to the people who help him become rich and famous. i switched my miners to RAVEN and Monero.

 That's what Ive done switch to Monero and Raven mostly Raven .

[toptek]

now there is another ASIC Zec miner 40 k sols how real it is no idea but i bet it is .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdQNfByI63c&feature=em-uploademail

15 k usd to buy it > https://asicminer.co/shop/asicminer-equihash  

Daily Return: $159.15  till they destroy the network.

and they call GPU miners greedily because we don't want a pay Asic prices which go higher and higher in price each time they come out with a new one till it's used up then they lower the price an fuck us even more .

[kemo6600]

now there is another ASIC Zec miner 40 k sols how real it is no idea but i bet it is .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdQNfByI63c&feature=em-uploademail

15 k usd to buy it > https://asicminer.co/shop/asicminer-equihash  

Daily Return: $159.15  till they destroy the network.

and they call GPU miners greedily because we don't want a pay Asic prices which go higher and higher in price each time they come out with a new one till it's used up then they lower the price an fuck us even more .

Probably it is four units  Z9

[cryptomined]

As is the attack on gpu mining  by asic builders.

The most successful year ever  2017  was on the back of gpu mining  and the asic builders attack the gear that  created that success.

 Do I think zcash is a bad coin do i think they are scum?  I did see your youtube video.  It makes a good case.  I will wait and see what zcash really does before I decide they are scum or a clever fighter of the asic attacks on them..

Yeah I totally agree with everything you say,
it was his reply tweet on March 30th that made me loose all respect for zooko:




"I'm not sure it is possible.  Also it might be undesirable, because commodity mining means miners have less at stake and don't lose much if abandon or betray the project.  Also CPU-mioning means the people making the money are botnet gangs- not the people i want to have around"

that was in response to asking him for suggestions on how to change Ethash to eliminate the asics...

at that point he literally said we were the people he didn't want around... there was no reason at that time to say that and insult those of us who have built his hashrate from day 0 testnet days....  that was a month before the asics came out... and its not like bitmain is watching those kinds of tweets... so yeah.. at that point i realized he is not someone we should want around...  that he would end up betraying us, not us betraying his network.

That tweet and reply was a few days before I posted on the forum about the potential of ZEC co. getting sued if they did not eliminate the ASICs as was previously said they would do... (which was on April; 3rd)

then the fact shawn edited his post (on April 4th)... I would like to ask him WHY he edited it.. but I can't since im banned  

that pushed me over the edge.

Bitmain has a lot money. It could be that there was deal between them behind the scenes. I do believe that Bitmain secretly funds lots of cryptocurrency projects. Once the community builds they bring the ASICs to the market. Monero earned my respect with their forking decision.

Bitmain holds the bone with their ASICs while we are treated like dogs. Only support coins that support us.

yup, we will never know as if there was collusion, ZEC co. was probably paid via z-address...

I believe or that's how i feel atm  > ZEC co. Has Deceived and Misled GPU Miners.
I 'm not calling it a Scam yet but do feel we were mislead and lied to all for money .

Bitmain has a lot money. It could be that there was deal between them behind the scenes. I do believe that Bitmain secretly funds lots of cryptocurrency projects. Once the community builds they bring the ASICs to the market. Monero earned my respect with their forking decision.

Bitmain holds the bone with their ASICs while we are treated like dogs. Only support coins that support us.

it seems you have been following it and if what your saying is the case then they lied and mislead us .I was even told on another forum by the DEV that zec would stay Resistance to ASIC . when Zec started in a pass by post i can't find now , that was my main reason for mining Zec back then

Personally i supported Zcash network from beginning, but when Zocco did a statement that ASIC doesn't concern him and he wont stick to the people who help him become rich and famous. i switched my miners to RAVEN and Monero.

 That's what Ive done switch to Monero and Raven mostly Raven .

yup, it was actually mentioned a lot of times on the forum that they would just fork and eliminate any asics, however i cant find most of those posts anymore... but I was an avid user of the forum and can clearly remember being told that several times.... as I was making videos at the time so I needed to reassure my viewers that GPU mining equihash would be safe for the future...

which is why i really feel cheated by them... because I recommended them... and really feel like they are throwing us off a cliff without a care of what was said in the past...

when i tell people something based off of what I am told, i expect what i am told to be true... i have an infamous reputation to uphold...

[madnessteat]

I agree with the author. When it was necessary to maintain the ZEC network our mining farms were necessary for them. It is a pity that so goes the team which I trusted!

[badfad]

https://imgur.com/a/vzcEAR9
This is Shawn and what he said in '16

Notice how they went from "likely change algorithm" to "overwinter and sappling are set in stone, maybe at the end of 2018" .

[fanatic26]

"I'm not sure it is possible.  Also it might be undesirable, because commodity mining means miners have less at stake and don't lose much if abandon or betray the project.  Also CPU-mioning means the people making the money are botnet gangs- not the people i want to have around"

that was in response to asking him for suggestions on how to change Ethash to eliminate the asics...

at that point he literally said we were the people he didn't want around... there was no reason at that time to say that and insult those of us who have built his hashrate from day 0 testnet days....  that was a month before the asics came out... and its not like bitmain is watching those kinds of tweets... so yeah.. at that point i realized he is not someone we should want around...  that he would end up betraying us, not us betraying his network.

Talk about not being able to comprehend what someone wrote. He specifically says he doesnt want people that build illegal botnets of CPU miners around. It says nothing about the rest of the community. Somehow you are taking a totally reasonable statement and twisting it to fit your narrative. He also states it might not be a bad thing to have ASICs because they will stabilize the network. If you look at ZEC hashrate it fluctuates wildly based on profitability, because people arent supporting ZEC in particular, they just want to make money.

Also, you cant prove anywhere that they gave an ironclad guarantee to fork away from ASICs. They said they used an asic resistant algo, and would 'likely' try to keep asics away. None of what was posted was a promise, and damn sure nothing you can sue over.

I cant even call you ignorant because you are actively spinning all of the information to try and align it with this idea somehow that the zcash devs betrayed you.

[badfad]

I don't agree on one thing, ZEC always had a stable miner community, on top of that comes pool-switching.

They changed their stance on ASICs. It's nothing to sue over ofc, it's just dishonest.

[cryptomined]

https://imgur.com/a/vzcEAR9
This is Shawn and what he said in '16

Notice how they went from "likely change algorithm" to "overwinter and sappling are set in stone, maybe at the end of 2018" .

[whitebrow]

@cryptomined

What do you want to actually happen? What actions do you want ZEC to take? Do you want to postpone sappling?

ZenCash put out a very Anti ASIC statement. Would you prefer if ZEC took a similar stance?

[cryptomined]

@cryptomined

What do you want to actually happen? What actions do you want ZEC to take? Do you want to postpone sappling?

ZenCash put out a very Anti ASIC statement. Would you prefer if ZEC took a similar stance?

I don't give a F what ZEC co. does at this point.

what they should do is, yes, postpone sappling and deal with the ASIC mess right away.  Priority should be given to what they said first, which is remain ASIC resistant, alter the algo to eliminate any threat of ASICs... sappling and any other upgrade came after the statements on ASIC resistance and forking off ASICs.


but they wont do that... so again... i dont care what they end up doing.

[fanatic26]

what they should do is, yes, postpone sappling and deal with the ASIC mess right away.  Priority should be given to what they said first, which is remain ASIC resistant, alter the algo to eliminate any threat of ASICs... sappling and any other upgrade came after the statements on ASIC resistance and forking off ASICs.

Who the hell are you to decide how they prioritize their work?  First of all, there is no ASIC threat or mess. There are just ASICs, which are the natural progression of how coins are mined. ASICs are a good thing to everyone except end users that are worried about nothing more than their profits. Go mine some other shitcoins and stop posting this nonsense before someone actually takes you seriously.

[TunerDude007]

I agree with OP on everything. And yes ZEC is a company and not a decentralized project like so many others we know. Now if I was a huge mining farm and gathered many investors on the idea were going to mine zcash and we have nothing to worry because they assured us they'd be resistant. Then you bet I'd be going after them, because they the company made us a promise. Our farm did not decide to mine bitcoin with Gpu's back in the day, and that's because there was no single entity making us a promise. But now, I know who to go after for compensation as our huge investment has yet to ROI. Anyone understand that concept?

[cvsea]

what they should do is, yes, postpone sappling and deal with the ASIC mess right away.  Priority should be given to what they said first, which is remain ASIC resistant, alter the algo to eliminate any threat of ASICs... sappling and any other upgrade came after the statements on ASIC resistance and forking off ASICs.

Who the hell are you to decide how they prioritize their work?  First of all, there is no ASIC threat or mess. There are just ASICs, which are the natural progression of how coins are mined. ASICs are a good thing to everyone except end users that are worried about nothing more than their profits. Go mine some other shitcoins and stop posting this nonsense before someone actually takes you seriously.

I'm sorry to tell you this but you are missing the point.
We're not talking about the advantages of asic vs gpu or whether the devs have a right to do what they wish or not or about what to do first.
It's simple really. They said from the beginning they will not allow asiscs on their chain. Nobody can deny this. End of story.

[Za1n]

what they should do is, yes, postpone sappling and deal with the ASIC mess right away.  Priority should be given to what they said first, which is remain ASIC resistant, alter the algo to eliminate any threat of ASICs... sappling and any other upgrade came after the statements on ASIC resistance and forking off ASICs.

Who the hell are you to decide how they prioritize their work?  First of all, there is no ASIC threat or mess. There are just ASICs, which are the natural progression of how coins are mined. ASICs are a good thing to everyone except end users that are worried about nothing more than their profits. Go mine some other shitcoins and stop posting this nonsense before someone actually takes you seriously.

ASICs in their current implementation are not a good thing. I would agree with you in that they would be no different then GPUs but with one exception, currently publicly available ASICs are provided only by one company Bitmain.

We already seen what they did back with Bitcoin and their ASIC boost software giving their own miners a secret advantage (until discovered) over even the hardware they sell off to the public. They have also included kill switch code in their hardware in the past, of course they spin it as it is good "in case someones miner(s) are stolen they can remotely deactivate them", but just the existence of such a feature should be alarming.

No matter what your views this is not leading at all to decentralization of the network and in fact is going more back to centralizing it in the hands of one hardware provider. If there were several ASIC manufacturers who made available and sold new hardware without restrictions or secret access, similar to the GPU manufactures, than yes ASICs would really be no different than GPU mining.

The thing GPU mining offers is that it truly helps to decentralize the mining network as even though we will always have differences of scale regardless of ASIC or GPU, at least the GPU route lets home miners have a foot in the door. With ASICs you have several hurdles to overcome, first you need to be even able to acquire them, you need to keep up with the queen's race game as new hardware is routinely released, you need to often pre-order them months in advance, and often you need to scale up to even make it worthwhile. All these things make ASICs available to far fewer people, thus further reducing the number of miners, or essentially reducing the decentralization of the mining network.

[Za1n]

@ op

I would love to answer your pool but your choices are very limited.

Asics are being used to attack gpu coins.

I see that as do the rest of us.

So now the equihash algo is under attack.  By maybe two different asic miners.

So the leading coin is zcash and they are dancing bobbing and weaving around do we fork or not fork.

I would say he should not decide or tell anyone what he will do.
Then when the gear from bitmain ships he should fork and make the announcement that they won’t fork a second time if new asics are made.


Then in six months when some asic builder attacks zcash2 with asic2. He should fork again saying I changed my mind.  And I now have three algos ready for any new asics attacking zcash3.

This is a war asics against gpus.

And gpus losing the war means death for all coins in the long run.  It goes far beyond zcash.

Cryptocoins best year ever was 2017 and gpus were the driving force.

Not asics.  Then in 2018 gpus were shut down by gpu builders prices got jacked asics mined coins on the sneak.

All the gpu networks grew in Jan feb mar yet not many gpus were sold.  So zcash leaders should not be standup transparent deadly  honest.  Then need to bust a move that hurts the. Users of Equihash ASICs more then your pole.

Then need to keep us guessing.

I am going with Phil on this one, in that my biggest beef with all this is that Zcash was launched as an ASIC resistant coin but the very first ASIC threat that comes along they decide to punt claiming it's a lost cause. Really? They haven't even tried yet.

Sure, they may fork and a new ASIC gets released, but to Bitmain this isn't a free ride. They will need to invest time, money, and effort into developing a new ASIC, so after a point they are going to tire chasing after coins that fork away from them. So not, I do not believe beating ASICs is a lost cause, but it does require some amount of effort from the dev team to fork away and from the community to support the new ASIC resistant fork.