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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 381515 times)
markm
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December 25, 2013, 07:47:27 AM
 #121

Skycoin uses a protocol called Obelisk instead of PoW. Obelisk is a provably secure PoW alternative for creating fair total orderings in decentralized systems with adversarial nodes.  Obelisk was chosen over other proposals because it is provably secure and can be layered over Bitcoin's existing security model to eliminate the possibility of 51% attacks.

Please provide links to the peer-reviewed journals in which the proofs can be found.

Actually of course I mean not just to the coverpages of the journals but directly also to the papers themselves within those journals.

Also links to any confirming or refuting papers or threads of papers (after all, Harmony Christian has papers out there claiming Bell's Theorem is wrong, but digging deeper we find other people have papers claiming Christian is wrong).

Which is a problem it seems of non-peer-reviewed journals; Christian's stuff is on arXhive or whatever it calls itself, a non peer reviewed site, so the only reviews - his supporters and detractors - are just as hard to decide amongst as he is, who is right, those who agree with Christian or those who claim he himself made an elementary math error?

So please, the proof, along with good supporting reviews from real mathematicians, cryptanalysts, computer-scientists and such indicating your purported proof does in reality prove what you think/imagine that it proves...

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December 25, 2013, 07:52:48 AM
 #122

For those of you wondering HOW Skycoin is generated, it's not. The entire market cap will already exist at coin launch and the only way to get it is to buy it from the developers at the price that THEY set.

One possible distribution method is releasing a certain percentage of the coins per day onto an exchange.

Another distribution method involves people putting Bitcoin into a pot and they receive coins proportional to how many coins were put into the pot.

For people who cant read the readme, we are releasing a mining client. The Skycoin mining client mines Dodgecoin and then sells the Dodgecoin for Bitcoin and then uses the Bitcoin to buy Skycoin at the current market rate.

No matter how you spin it; You, as the developer, control 100% of the coins at launch. They still have to be purchased from you in order for anyone to obtain them and you set the initial market price at whatever you want.

Mining dogecoin to trade into Bitcoin and then to Skycoin? Why the hell would anyone want to do that?

[DOGE]: D6EBXikfCaPqcEJULsR2qzrLWyGBdYEwGv
[LTC]: LbPrmVGKnVhn6G8FFGFdthPyP1tjFucZHu
BTC: 1JpJ4tTM2ZCCLQf1jAnTmQbKMq7LGbrmQG
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December 25, 2013, 08:13:47 AM
 #123



As expected. Move along, nothing to see here.

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December 25, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
 #124

If all you can say is "Haters gona hate" just shows you not even smart enough to debate or make your case. Hence,


SCAM
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December 25, 2013, 08:48:29 AM
 #125

I think that solution have been already developed. Make a normal coin on sha256 or scrypt and let people mine coins, then you shall assign number of coins in the old coin blockchain to the number of coins in skycoin genesis block. This should be more fair than creating another scam like ripple or nxt. I think you can do method of generating priv addresses the same as in the old coin. So what you'll have to do is just type in your priv key in skycoin client.
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December 25, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
Last edit: July 05, 2017, 04:04:28 PM by skycoin
 #126

I think that solution have been already developed. Make a normal coin on sha256 or scrypt and let people mine coins, then you shall assign number of coins in the old coin blockchain to the number of coins in skycoin genesis block. This should be more fair than creating another scam like ripple or nxt. I think you can do method of generating priv addresses the same as in the old coin. So what you'll have to do is just type in your priv key in skycoin client.

Problems with mining
- in CPU coins, all coins go to people with botnets
- in GPU coins, all coins go to people with GPU farms
- in SHA256 coins, all coins go to people with ASICs
- mining gives all new coins to a small cartel of already wealthy miners
- most miners are invested in coins for the short term and not really part of the community

The vast majority of mined coins today are extremely well organized pump and dumps.

I wont address criticisms by two week old socket puppet accounts which are pumping Catcoin.  

Anyone can read the Skycoin source code and determine if Skycoin is a scam.

The exciting thing is not where the coin is today, but what it will be.

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December 25, 2013, 01:08:16 PM
 #127

I'm very interested in investing in this coin once distribution details have been announced.

Have you any idea when the distribution method will be decided?
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December 25, 2013, 01:09:04 PM
 #128

Anytime you have a group create a coin, mine all the coins, set the price for the coin, and distribute the coin, it is a a SCAM.

SKYCOIN and the NXT team are probably the same group. just trying to sucker more people. If it worked once, lets rebrand and try again.

I have managed a hedge fund before and have seen this 100 times people.

When you hear PUMP and DUMP, boiler room, shell game, it is a SCAM.


SKYCOIN and NXT are both SCAMS for suckers.


This is a MINING community not a sucker list.
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December 25, 2013, 01:20:58 PM
 #129

I think that solution have been already developed. Make a normal coin on sha256 or scrypt and let people mine coins, then you shall assign number of coins in the old coin blockchain to the number of coins in skycoin genesis block. This should be more fair than creating another scam like ripple or nxt. I think you can do method of generating priv addresses the same as in the old coin. So what you'll have to do is just type in your priv key in skycoin client.

Should Skycoin Distribute Coins Through Mining?

- in CPU coins, all coins go to people with botnets
- in GPU coins, all coins go to people with GPU farms
- in SHA256 coins, all coins go to people with ASICs

The vast majority of mined coins today are extremely well organized pump and dumps. The same trolls attacking innovative coins such as Skycoin, Nxt and Mastercoin are the people pumping Catcoin and Ripple.

THIS IS A SCAM. I WANT FREE COINS.

I will not address criticisms by people pumping Catcoin. Nor will I address personal attacks as my opinions do not reflect the opinions of the development team nor the Skycoin community.

People who understand Bitcoin and the true altcoins understand what we are trying to do with Skycoin. Skycoin is not designed for scammers and people pumping Catcoin and Sexcoin.

---

Ripple:

The fact that the user defended Ripple, means the post was an obvious troll.

I do not think Ripple was intended as a scam, but is highly questionable
- Ripple has extensive private key reuse which is known to be insecure
- Ripple has admitted to secretly selling large blocks of Ripple at below market price to wealthy investors
- Ripple's protocol is too complex to audit
- Ripple's user base controls less than 1% of Ripple
- Ripple currently relies on very small number of nodes, most of which are controlled by the issuer of Ripple
- Ripple has an extremely small free float and is easily manipulated
- Ripple's price indicate manipulation because it moves with dollar instead of with Bitcoin
- Ripple has almost no users (many fewer than Dogecoin)
- Ripple's lead developer and designer has quit company and is very adapt at jumping sinking ships

---

Nxt:

Nxt coin is a legitimate coin. The Nxt coin developers are trying to build something new. They are not just copying Litecoin and changing the name and logo to create Catcoin so they can pump and dump it.

Just because the Nxt IPO was "unfair" to people who did not receive cheap coins, does not make Nxt a scam. The Nxt IPO was very similar to the Mastercoin IPO and no one considers Mastercoin to be a scam.

---

Dodgecoin:

This is my favorite coin because it makes fun of Catcoin and the pump and dump coins that are constantly being created and promoted. Dodgecoin is a good meme and does not take itself seriously. Where as Catcoin, Sexcoin and Earthcoin are things that some people may make money on, but which will not be around in ten years.

I think NXT is a scam based on my quick analysis of their code base.  28 classes without any special libraries.

Furthermore, no peer review of source code at the same time, they are taking money from investors while alpha testing their coin.

I am however here waiting to see what you've got in terms of 'distributed consensus with adversarial attackers'.

Best of luck.

 
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December 25, 2013, 01:29:46 PM
 #130


I thought it was kind of strange how the SKY creator hinted that the 1st world doesn't need banking reform and that the coin would benefit 3rd world people unable to get loans for their farms the most.  The guy seemed very technically knowledgeable, so I can only assume he lives in a cave and has never had access to one of the 75,000 youtube videos or books on the federal reserve before.

He seemed really excited about a coin that gives loans to people though.  Is this the stealth Lloyd Blankfein coin we've all been waiting for.




RE: "...1st world doesn't need banking reform..."


Right there the OP's credibility is shot, totally shot!



For Example:
--------------
 After ten's of Trillions of dollars worth of backstops, guarantees, zero interest loans, and multi-trillion dollars worth of give-aways to the wealthy ruling elite of this world, they all got turned from busted out losers into made whole again winners. While the real winners during the crash were often turned back into losers all over again (The Shorts).

 That's called Socialism for the top 1%. And the OP seems fine with that. But not with any socialism that seeks fairness for the masses. Except of course for making certain third world peasant farmers can have access to usury loans.

Again all credibility shot to hell.


 One would expect a little more levelheaded statements from someone claiming to be so serious. But whatever.


 BTW that 1% socialism that the rest of us are financing for mainly the wealthy elite? Yea, it sucks.


 After wasting our time we come to learn after sifting through 9 to 10 pages of hype, plus repeated refusal to answer community questions, and having to learn of the OP's foolish belief that the 1st world DOESN'T desperately need monetary reforms to the nth degree.
OMG.

 And finally we learn that this is Ripple v0.0.02.01; meaning that the OP doesn't have the foggiest clue how to distribute this created out of thin air currency he of course reins large over. And that hardly anything is worked out, likely right down to the '...protocol called Obelisk...' which will some day be '...provable secure...'.


 Of course these 'we' people at SKY are going to solve everything that Ripple has yet to solve. Sure they are. Of course.


 After wasting my time and learning this is yet another crazed pipe-dream from a very confused person that is at least inwardly extremely confused about how the world really functions I just couldn't resist doing a bit of ripping here.


 These are serious times for serious solutions. Bitcoin and Ripple are merely two serious solutions that are works in progress. Yet the OP seems to think Bitcoin is so obviously broken that it's a hopeless cause. It's not. Not at all.

 See below for the OP's thoughts on that:


Example: On one hand the 1st world banking system doesn't need reform. But on the other hand those pesky socialist countries are a threat to bitcoin. (see below).


The OP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=360659.msg3860909#msg3860909

skycoin
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Re: Known Problems with Bitcoin
December 06, 2013, 11:30:51 PM
   
Reply with quote  #11
There are still many challenges to be resolved by the community.

Miner cartels are becoming greater threat than 51% attack.  Miners need 2 million dollars a day to pay electricity bill. When block rewards decrease miners need higher fees. Miners cant make money unless they reject low fee transactions.

Some of the greatest problems facing Bitcoin
- Governments can determine who is using Bitcoin from IP data. We are not protecting the identities of the people running the Bitcoin client.
- Argentina, Venezuela, North Korea and France will retaliate against Bitcoin users. These countries do not want citizens to have access to technologies like Bitcoin. We are not protecting the identities of the people running the Bitcoin client.

- Bitcoin only supports 8 transactions/second and Visa's network clears 20,000 transactions/second
- Bitcoin transactions are too easy to track. Bitcoin does not offer the privacy required for widespread use in many countries.

These problems are being worked on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 So what? Another freeloading anarchist ? That thinks much like the phony libertarians? And that everyone else is supposed to carry your water too? While all you clowns get off scott free (as in evading/avoiding all taxation) ? Or are taxes merely just for us 'little people? And not you privileged top 1% folk? Yea, I peg the OP to come from the top 1%, or at least raised in the top 1% clan.


  And while all of you then turn around and scream about bloody 'socialism' and how it's ruining your free-loading good times? How dare you! Grow up people. GROW UP. This is more like the shills and leeches on Cable news fronting for the ruling wealthy elite and their demands than any serious discussion on viable solutions.


 There is likely only one person behind SKY so far, and their knowledge of monetary and fiscal issues on a macro level is so lacking it is painfully apparent. Toss in the OP's head spinning thoughts and well I am left wondering if this OP has two distinct personalities that are dynamically opposed and battling each other inside the OP's head.


 So this OP figured out how to do QE~ (to infinity) from the get go just like Ripple? I don't think so.


 And now figures to be the Master of SKY while working out the particulars, and us 'little people' slaves obey whatever is determined by the OP? And us little people are to be glad of whatever does trickle down to us lucky chosen few? Again, I don't think so. In fact keep all that SKY v2.0, I don't care for any of it.


 All while at least ripple is seemingly trying to offer a tremendously valuable service with such efficiencies still unmatched to date, but obviously still struggling to hit critical mass, as well as make it easy to even fully comprehend, let alone use! Not to mention get widely distributed.



 The OP here is offering exactly what?

 To enrich himself, and dictate monetary policies through the issue of his own currency, all of it created out of thin air right from the start! Miners not required. Others will be offered a piece of the pie in the classic scam called 'trickle down'.

 And merely with a vague statement concerning fairness of said issue that shall be retained while the OP obviously is still working out the particulars.

 Sounds vaguely familiar and similar to so called public central banks in the western world. lol. But hey, it's a giant leap from 1913 (hint).


 I am done with this one.


 The OP had a good set of lines and features for a primer, and to attract much attention.

 But from everything so far it's apparent this isn't what it first seemed to be. Too bad. It was obviously an interesting concept but isn't even remotely in alpha staging yet. Nor forming up to be a palatable delight.
 
 And about the bitcoin shortcomings: Don't be too sure about what you stated OP. I seriously doubt that Bitcoin will fail at meeting marketplace demands once things start rapidly advancing. But yes, it's not the most advanced, nor the most secure, nor not yet ready for prime time. Okay. But I have supreme confidence in the team behind Bitcoin where the rubber meets the road. They are some of the true 'Best & Brightest', not the phony financial hucksters and scammers in the City of London and Manhatten N.Y.

 I can't say the same about SKY v2.0 though. Or didn't the OP know that there has already been a failed Skycoin v1.0?



Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!


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December 25, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
 #131

If the majority of Skycoin holders feel that they are being "taxed", they can vote against all funding for all programs. In which case the inflation falls to 0%. Both Skycoin holders and the people running Obelisk servers can collectively veto the inflation or "tax".
Thanks.
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December 25, 2013, 08:29:59 PM
Last edit: December 26, 2013, 02:03:04 AM by skycoin
 #132


I think NXT is a scam based on my quick analysis of their code base.  28 classes without any special libraries.

Furthermore, no peer review of source code at the same time, they are taking money from investors while alpha testing their coin.

I am however here waiting to see what you've got in terms of 'distributed consensus with adversarial attackers'.

Best of luck.

Not having cryptography libraries is a problem for Nxt. I have to re-examine Nxt.

These are the Skycoin libraries for the blockchain parser, including the libsec256k1 library
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/tree/master/src/lib

This is the blockchain implementation
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/tree/master/src/coin

In particular
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/address.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/crypto.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/blockchain.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/transactions.go

Notice the elegance and simplicity of the code compared to Bitcoin.

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December 25, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
 #133

How many developers are involved in Skycoin?
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December 25, 2013, 09:02:20 PM
 #134

Are you guys still in need of a logo improvement?

My Graphic Design Service / Portfolio: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=330240.0
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December 26, 2013, 06:26:54 PM
 #135

how do I become a beta tester?
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December 26, 2013, 06:33:21 PM
 #136

Send me all the skycoins and I will distribute them fairly.... Through an exchange  Wink

Syscoin has the best of Bitcoin and Ethereum in one place, it's merge mined with Bitcoin so it is plugged into Bitcoin's ecosystem and takes full advantage of it's POW while rewarding Bitcoin miners with Syscoin
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December 26, 2013, 10:03:33 PM
 #137

is there any official website for skycoin?
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December 26, 2013, 10:11:56 PM
 #138


I think NXT is a scam based on my quick analysis of their code base.  28 classes without any special libraries.

Furthermore, no peer review of source code at the same time, they are taking money from investors while alpha testing their coin.

I am however here waiting to see what you've got in terms of 'distributed consensus with adversarial attackers'.

Best of luck.

Not having cryptography libraries is a problem for Nxt. I have to re-examine Nxt.

These are the Skycoin libraries for the blockchain parser, including the libsec256k1 library
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/tree/master/src/lib

This is the blockchain implementation
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/tree/master/src/coin

In particular
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/address.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/crypto.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/blockchain.go
https://github.com/skycoin/skycoin/blob/master/src/coin/transactions.go

Notice the elegance and simplicity of the code compared to Bitcoin.

Certainly looks very clean compared to Bitcoin sources.

Also,  at least you made an effort with the address.  NXT just uses numbers.  Who knows if they have checksums in those numbers!

Anyway, best of luck here.

Still waiting for you to describe how you are going to do the 'distributed consensus'.

 
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December 26, 2013, 10:21:37 PM
 #139

I think that solution have been already developed. Make a normal coin on sha256 or scrypt and let people mine coins, then you shall assign number of coins in the old coin blockchain to the number of coins in skycoin genesis block. This should be more fair than creating another scam like ripple or nxt. I think you can do method of generating priv addresses the same as in the old coin. So what you'll have to do is just type in your priv key in skycoin client.

Problems with mining
- in CPU coins, all coins go to people with botnets
- in GPU coins, all coins go to people with GPU farms
- in SHA256 coins, all coins go to people with ASICs
- mining gives all new coins to a small cartel of already wealthy miners
- most miners are invested in coins for the short term and not really part of the community

The vast majority of mined coins today are extremely well organized pump and dumps.

THIS IS A SCAM. I WANT FREE COINS.

I wont address criticisms by two week old socket puppet accounts which are pumping Catcoin.  

Anyone can read the Skycoin source code and determine if Skycoin is a scam.

The exciting thing is not where the coin is today, but what it will be.

You get it.  There is nothing to do about the recent flood of "crypto-currency experts" in the holidays Wink

skycoin (OP)
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December 27, 2013, 01:28:09 PM
Last edit: December 27, 2013, 01:44:52 PM by skycoin
 #140


Certainly looks very clean compared to Bitcoin sources.

Also,  at least you made an effort with the address.  NXT just uses numbers.  Who knows if they have checksums in those numbers!

Still waiting for you to describe how you are going to do the 'distributed consensus'.


Overview of Obelisk: Distributed Consensus

In Obelisk, each person runs their own Obelisk nodes. Each node has a set of trust relationships with other nodes. Each node has a list of servers it "trusts". A new node can be initialized by randomly choosing a few dozen existing nodes to trust, with only two or three of the nodes being nodes run by trusted institutions or persons.

Servers publish "blocks" every 5 seconds. Blocks are sequential and it is detected when a node backdate a block or retroactively change an already published block. It uses a very secure linked time stamping scheme.  The block publishing creates a "public broadcast channel" and that is the key primitive in the Obelisk protocol.

In Ripple, clients can cheat or fail to obey the protocol and it cant be detected. Consensus protocols only work if all nodes obey the protocol, which is a bad assumption if there are financial incentives to cheat.

Skycoin solves this by having Obelisk nodes publish both their decisions and the data needed to reconstruct the decisions. Obelisk nodes receive blocks from other nodes, time stamp them and include the time stamps in their blocks. We can audit servers for causal violations.

Obelisk nodes publish enough information for 3rd parties to replicate their internal state. During an audit a 3rd party can reconstruct the internal state and simulate decisions of a particular Obelisk node and will produce the same successor block as what the server published, if the server is in fact obeying the protocol.

If a node cheats, other nodes will sever their trust relationship with it. You can create a proof that a node cheated and it give it other node and they can verify it. If the node is colluding or something something strange, that is not provably wrong, it can be detected because decisions are public and people running nodes can make decisions about their trust relationships with the colluding nodes.

Obelisk is a very simple protocol. Obelisk is designed to be simple to allow  security properties to be easily modeled with mathematics and simulation.

Alternative Uses for Obelisk:

With a well defined state machine and scripting language, Obelisk may in in the future support OT style digital contacts off the block chain which can be executed between counter parties. Each counter party would be an Obelisk node with its own independent block chain.

However, right now are extremely focused on a version of Obelisk specialized for blockchain consensus.

Open Problems.

When Skycoin development began, there were two open problems with Obelisk. The first problem was proving the identity of a node without key reuse. Key reuse introduces timing side channel attacks and weakens the crpytographic security of Skycoin. In our security audits we found that attacks on the identity infrastructure for Obelisk nodes would be significantly easier than attacks on the Skycoin blockchain and transaction infrastructure.
 
It was not until last week that we had a solution to avoid key reuse in the identity protocol. We have a very good solution now, that meets our standards for elegance and cryptographic security.

The second problem, is that consensus protocols need to take into account netsplits. If connectivity is severed between two sub-graphs of the network, it breaks some of the assumptions when the networks remerge. We like the assumption that a block is consensus is final once it has been reached because it eliminates double spending. However, if two subgraphs come to different irreversible consensus results during a netsplit, it is problematic. Either the fork must become permanent or consensus is not in-fact irreversible.

The netsplit problem is not unique to Skycoin and is actually much worse in Bitcoin. There are netsplit based attacks on Bitcoin that allow double spending. The ability to selectively control the peers a node can connect to, enables very specific and highly targeted attacks that Bitcoin does not even attempt to address. This attacks require control of hardware at the ISP level and we have not seen them yet, so they are still theoretical.

Skycoin has a preliminary solution to the network split problem.  However, it is not high on our priority list right now.

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