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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 379756 times)
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April 16, 2014, 07:10:25 AM
 #681

will keep watch this coin, when will this coin start?

It should start only when it is ready.
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April 16, 2014, 11:59:18 PM
 #682

will keep watch this coin, when will this coin start?

It should start only when it is ready.

+1

Bitrated user: vanlovely.
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April 17, 2014, 04:39:45 AM
 #683

Also I suspect the coder is a young teen from Hackforums (he's a bronnie and coupled with his writing style fits the demographic of an intelligent 12-14 year old scrypt kiddie from this forum)

Is that supposed to be bad?

I'd rather evaluate someone for their works than their age. Aaron Swartz was doing great work at 14. If Skycoin is a 12-14 year old, that says little more than potential to improve. It would make much more sense to criticize Skycoins slipping deadlines, or some other actual issue with the design or project than the age: thats just counterproductive (and without evidence). And really, being a bronnie wouldn't effect anything; it's not relevant.

And now onto the real issues:

So if I understand correctly, Skycoin is basically providing (in addition to a currency) tools for building a distributed reputation system. A personal block chain is a set of claims about the identity associated with your public key, and you provide a system to replicate and inspect it. The claims may have multiple signers, and the block chains of those signers may also be inspected.

This basically provides (in a distributed manner) one of the key features of Silk Road: its a way to build reputations associated with identities which you can send messages and money to.

However, users of the system (developers of software that uses these features) still have to sort out all the nasty issues: if you can make an identity with a block chain, you can make a billion of them. If trust can be built through relations, your billion clones will do very well. All of them can edit their block chains at well, and all agree with each-other while editing them, or throw them away and be replaced. I could instantly create an exchange that appears to have a long history of millions of transactions with millions of users (my clones). The moment it gets some money sent in, it can send it off into the pool, and create a new exchange with a similar history of transactions between other identities I control. You still need a robust web of trust to prevent this, and thats a hard (and non user friendly) problem to solve.

Its a nice service to expose, but I don't see any particular benefits it offers, or great uses without cross chain transactions, which likely are impossible in such a case. If you could do bonded transactions (requires cross chain transactions), of have a system for assigning trust (like a clone of Ripple, thats not so amazing) it would be more interesting.

Leveraging proof of stake by putting proof of sake in SkyCoin in your personal block chain (or signing your block chanin and putting that signature in the SkyCoin block chain) might be useful here. However, the same skycoin can can be mixed and reused to sign your next fake identity (or next million of them), so I don't see how that helps at all, unless you rely on using coins that haven't been transferred or used for trust in a long time. That however destroys fungibility and encourages handing over private keys instead of creating transactions (the value of non transferred coins would be higher): that would wreck the currency.

I just don't see whats so great about it: it doesn't solve distribution of trust or sybil attacks as far as I can tell.

I should note that I'm not saying such a system is not totally useless: if you already have a system for assigning trust, it would be a perfectly fine setup for replacing our existing SSL certificate mess for example (Each authority and sub authority gets a block chain, replicated as needed). Nothing very new there, but the libraries could be useful for that kind of thing.

Personally I find NxtCoin's Colored Coins http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/nxt-colored-coins more powerful since they are tied to the main block chain. You can have your own personal info associated with them, but you can also involve them with transactions trustlessly since they are part of the main block chain (no need for cross chain transactions). Associate those with contracts and you get a system that still doesn't solve the entirety of the exchange problem, solves more of it than personal block chains do.

I could create my own currency/block chain with NxtColored coins. I set their value to be 1 btc. I could then securely trade my colored coins for how ever many Nxt a Btc is worth at the time. I'd still need to go off chain to give real Btc for one, but it could be securely traded for someone else's colored coins that represent Btc, or Doge for example. Its not a complete solution (no cross chain transactions with existing currencies), but it effectively allows secure cross chain between all Nxt bases currencies / colored coins. Thats pretty useful, and not possible with personal block chains.


In short: I don't think all the grand claims about features possible with personal block chains are that great: personal block chains might be a fun toy for devs, but they only solve a small part of the problem (part of the tooling). Nxt offers more powerful features that do more to help implement these kinds of things. Skycoin could support colored coins though.

A modular design that allows easy code reuse for things like personal block chains is great, but I don't think the grand claims about them are warranted: focus on the core feature, the consensus algorithm. Grand claims about that are more interesting and details would be even better.
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April 17, 2014, 09:46:30 AM
 #684

Also I suspect the coder is a young teen from Hackforums (he's a bronnie and coupled with his writing style fits the demographic of an intelligent 12-14 year old scrypt kiddie from this forum)

Is that supposed to be bad?

I'd rather evaluate someone for their works than their age. Aaron Swartz was doing great work at 14. If Skycoin is a 12-14 year old, that says little more than potential to improve. It would make much more sense to criticize Skycoins slipping deadlines, or some other actual issue with the design or project than the age: thats just counterproductive (and without evidence). And really, being a bronnie wouldn't effect anything; it's not relevant.

And now onto the real issues:

So if I understand correctly, Skycoin is basically providing (in addition to a currency) tools for building a distributed reputation system. A personal block chain is a set of claims about the identity associated with your public key, and you provide a system to replicate and inspect it. The claims may have multiple signers, and the block chains of those signers may also be inspected.

This basically provides (in a distributed manner) one of the key features of Silk Road: its a way to build reputations associated with identities which you can send messages and money to.

However, users of the system (developers of software that uses these features) still have to sort out all the nasty issues: if you can make an identity with a block chain, you can make a billion of them. If trust can be built through relations, your billion clones will do very well. All of them can edit their block chains at well, and all agree with each-other while editing them, or throw them away and be replaced. I could instantly create an exchange that appears to have a long history of millions of transactions with millions of users (my clones). The moment it gets some money sent in, it can send it off into the pool, and create a new exchange with a similar history of transactions between other identities I control. You still need a robust web of trust to prevent this, and thats a hard (and non user friendly) problem to solve.

Its a nice service to expose, but I don't see any particular benefits it offers, or great uses without cross chain transactions, which likely are impossible in such a case. If you could do bonded transactions (requires cross chain transactions), of have a system for assigning trust (like a clone of Ripple, thats not so amazing) it would be more interesting.

Leveraging proof of stake by putting proof of sake in SkyCoin in your personal block chain (or signing your block chanin and putting that signature in the SkyCoin block chain) might be useful here. However, the same skycoin can can be mixed and reused to sign your next fake identity (or next million of them), so I don't see how that helps at all, unless you rely on using coins that haven't been transferred or used for trust in a long time. That however destroys fungibility and encourages handing over private keys instead of creating transactions (the value of non transferred coins would be higher): that would wreck the currency.

I just don't see whats so great about it: it doesn't solve distribution of trust or sybil attacks as far as I can tell.

I should note that I'm not saying such a system is not totally useless: if you already have a system for assigning trust, it would be a perfectly fine setup for replacing our existing SSL certificate mess for example (Each authority and sub authority gets a block chain, replicated as needed). Nothing very new there, but the libraries could be useful for that kind of thing.

Personally I find NxtCoin's Colored Coins http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/nxt-colored-coins more powerful since they are tied to the main block chain. You can have your own personal info associated with them, but you can also involve them with transactions trustlessly since they are part of the main block chain (no need for cross chain transactions). Associate those with contracts and you get a system that still doesn't solve the entirety of the exchange problem, solves more of it than personal block chains do.

I could create my own currency/block chain with NxtColored coins. I set their value to be 1 btc. I could then securely trade my colored coins for how ever many Nxt a Btc is worth at the time. I'd still need to go off chain to give real Btc for one, but it could be securely traded for someone else's colored coins that represent Btc, or Doge for example. Its not a complete solution (no cross chain transactions with existing currencies), but it effectively allows secure cross chain between all Nxt bases currencies / colored coins. Thats pretty useful, and not possible with personal block chains.


In short: I don't think all the grand claims about features possible with personal block chains are that great: personal block chains might be a fun toy for devs, but they only solve a small part of the problem (part of the tooling). Nxt offers more powerful features that do more to help implement these kinds of things. Skycoin could support colored coins though.

A modular design that allows easy code reuse for things like personal block chains is great, but I don't think the grand claims about them are warranted: focus on the core feature, the consensus algorithm. Grand claims about that are more interesting and details would be even better.

>or have a system for assigning trust (like a clone of Ripple, thats not so amazing) it would be more interesting.

Yes. You could implement Ripple (the old original Ripple, not the new Ripple) on top of it. The important thing is making it easier for developers to build new stuff and creating a system where this stuff is exposed and interoperable while developers experiment.

As you pointed out, messaging and identity are very important. If you can message an address, it means they can give you newly generated addresses for each transaction. You can send the amount to 5 addresses instead of 1 address with change. It increases privacy, security and you get a transaction receipt from the person.

>This basically provides (in a distributed manner) one of the key features of Silk Road: its a way to build reputations associated with identities which you can send messages and money to.

Yes. Merchants could post things they have for sale in their personal blockchains. It would form a distributed market.

>In short: I don't think all the grand claims about features possible with personal block chains are that great: personal block chains might be a fun toy for devs, but they only solve a small part of the problem (part of the tooling).

Yes, this is incremental. However, crytocurrencies need these tools to advance to the next stage of development. These tools and standards are the TCP of the crytocurrency movement. They are the building blocks for the next stage and for applications that have not been imagined yet.

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April 17, 2014, 10:22:20 AM
 #685

i can't believe i have only just found out about this coin now. I'm in!

Interested.

Fuck Mt.Gox! Fuck Mintpal! Fuck Bter! FUCK kyc! Protect yourself use MGW! SUPERNET!
Recommended ASSET ->InstantDex : Lead Dev Jl777 (decentralized multi currency instant exchange)
Recommended ASSET -> Jinn : Lead Dev Come-from-Beyond (ternary processors!)
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
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April 17, 2014, 12:25:00 PM
 #686

I am in happy to beta test.
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April 17, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
 #687

Very interesting project. It seems there are lots of work to do  to get where the devs want. It will be a long shot and take years. I suggest that you can start to build a community first by launching the coins at a good point and let the community help your guys. You can't do every thing your selves.
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April 17, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
 #688

+1. A project worthy to follow.
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April 18, 2014, 01:05:39 PM
 #689

IPO Security Measures:

We made the final changes to the deterministic wallet generation. Final security preparations for the IPO are beginning.

Recently, hackers have been targeting coin IPOs for attack. We are generating the private keys for the IPO addresses offline, from a computer that has not been connected to the internet and then moving the addresses via USB drive in 1 million coin batches.

We are taking measures to proxy the server authorizing the IPO transactions to prevent identification of the server. The server will have all incoming ports firewalled and will only allow outgoing connections to specific IP addresses on specific ports. The Bitcoin received will be immediately distributed to the project teams and the rest will be placed into cold storage in paper wallet addresses generated by a computer not attached to the internet.

How the IPO Will Work:

1 million coins (1%) will be sold for 50k in Bitcoin.

The objective of the initial  IPO is to get coins in the hands of as many people as possible.

The IPO will work as following.
- A person will generate a Skycoin address (to receive coins to), they will input the address into a form.
-  They will receive a Bitcoin address (address to send coins to). They will send coins to the address.
- If the IPO is over subscribed, coins which could not participate in the IPO will be sent back to the address.

People have suggested that Coinbase does not work well with receiving coins back to one of the addresses they were sent from. Therefore we may also need a return address if this is the case.

The number of Bitcoin per person that may participate in the IPO may be capped.

We have a special firm doing bot detection, browser fingerprinting based upon IP address, ad network tracking and browser metadata. If a user is suspected of being a bot or multiple participation, we reserve the right to ban their participation from the IPO. We highly recommend using an unproxied internet connection, on a residential network on a computer with a web history.

After the IPO, the balances received by Skycoin addresses during the IPO will be published, so that  people have information on the distribution of coins in the IPO. The Bitcoin addresses will not be published, to protect user privacy.

After the IPO, all logs on the server will be nuked by overwriting the disc multiple times with random data.

We have had several people who want to buy out the whole IPO allotment, so the IPO will probably be over subscribed. An alternative to a fixed valuation IPO is an auction, but the downside is that early investors will benefit less from appreciation and the coin will be more concentrated in the hands of a small number of wealthy people.

Conditions for the IPO:

The IPO will not begin until the wallet is working for the majority of people. We will not start the IPO if people on OSX cannot run the wallet.

The IPO will not begin until there are wallet binaries for each platform. We are giving a few coins to developers to help test the network on different operating system and help fix any bugs.

Post-IPO

After the IPO, you will be able to check balances, send and receive coins on the main blockchain. Exchanges will be able to begin trading Skycoin.

However, there is still work to be done. We need a blockchain history library that parses the blockchain and gets account histories (for the block explorer) and we need to work on Obelisk and the wallet is still under heavy development.

We are saving each address and all account balances hourly. In the event of an attack, major security breach or major changes to the blockchain, we are taking measures to ensure that we have the data required to restore account balances and minimize disruption.

Finishing the remaining components of the mesh network before July is likely to push Obelisk and security related improvements back by a few months, but will greatly improve coin adaption.

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April 18, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
 #690

1 million coins (1%) will be sold for 50k in Bitcoin.

hm.
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April 18, 2014, 01:51:39 PM
 #691

Do we even know how mining on this coin will work yet?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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April 18, 2014, 02:02:34 PM
 #692

1 million coins (1%) will be sold for 50k in Bitcoin.

hm.

there are three explanations for me regarding that IPO

1.) most likely: you guys smoked too much crack

2.) you want to troll this community

3.) you guys are working for google to set up their own cryptocurrency - then I do not understand why you need so much money

edit: is it a language thing? - you want 50k Dollar in Bitcoins?
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April 18, 2014, 03:33:20 PM
 #693

So this puts it as July launch date?
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April 18, 2014, 03:37:42 PM
 #694

Do we even know how mining on this coin will work yet?

There is no mining.
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April 18, 2014, 04:17:47 PM
 #695

you want 50k BTC for 1% of the coin leading to a 5000000 Marketcap (five-million bitcoins)
or
you want 50k$ in BTC for 1% of the coin leading to 5000000$ Marketcap (five-million USD)

Both sound ridiculous, is there a typo?

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April 18, 2014, 04:20:29 PM
 #696

1 million coins (1%) will be sold for 50k in Bitcoin.

So from an investors point of view, we'd need to believe in a $5m valuation at launch. That's almost top ten territory, market cap wise.

What's the plan for distributing the remaining 99%?
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April 18, 2014, 04:25:47 PM
 #697

Do we even know how mining on this coin will work yet?

There is no mining.

Ok, the "new coin generation". How does it work?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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April 18, 2014, 04:29:48 PM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 04:47:55 PM by CryptoFinanceUK
 #698

Do we even know how mining on this coin will work yet?

There is no mining.

Ok, the "new coin generation". How does it work?

It sounds like there'll be 100 million coins created by the developers. We know that 1% of these will be issued via an IPO. I think we're waiting to find out the specifics of when / how the remaining 99% will be distributed.
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April 18, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
 #699

Has anyone review the source code?
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April 18, 2014, 05:05:08 PM
 #700

you want 50k BTC for 1% of the coin leading to a 5000000 Marketcap (five-million bitcoins)
or
you want 50k$ in BTC for 1% of the coin leading to 5000000$ Marketcap (five-million USD)

Both sound ridiculous, is there a typo?

+1

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