[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[sparta_cuss]

One of the reasons that there is not a rush of outside developers creating Counterparty add-ons...

You may not see them yet, but this statement is very incorrect. 

That is good to hear.

[1715479690]

1715479690

[1715479690]

1715479690

[1715479690]

1715479690

[nutildah]

I shudder to think how much I have spend on btc transaction fees on failed sales of xcp for btc.  Order cancel themselves especially mysteriously or the btc holders are logged out so the do not pay...  Meh.

Yeah, I agree that this is a problem.  Pissing away satoshis on mysteriously failed orders doesn't feel good.  I realize that the amounts involved are small, but multiply by X and they get bigger.

They need to be more like the real exchanges in this area. (No fees for cancelled orders). Would encourage people to make more use of the CP exchange.

[JahPowerBit]

(No fees for cancelled orders).

The only fees are miners fees for the cancel transaction.

[bbit]

PhantomPhreak - Yes, it seems like all those issues can be easily fixed with Counterparty. And yes, using BTC was part of the problem, but I only used BTC because I first tried to buy XCP (using BTC) at the market price and the order never completed, so after 3 hours I gave up and tried it using BTC instead.

 

This idea isn't going to work . CounterParty just introduced a BUTTload more complexity onto Bitcoin. People still don't even get what Bitcoin is let alone some confusing thing called Counterparty!   Plus, most of this is highly illegal. Just setting up a database for the SEC to go after ?  Good idea in general, but it will fail miserably.

[mindtomatter]

What do you think of setting up a new type of order using XCP that essentially lets anyone do a "kickstarter" style threshold-or-everyone-is-refunded asset sale order?

" I'm buying x TOKEN for y, but only once amount z is bought at the same time."

Those orders would accumulate and then excute all at once, as soon as the goal is reached. Optionally you could put a date your order expires, which is a personal "end of campaign" threshold for each person.

and it would only be possible with an XCP based instrument, so bitcoin would be out and XCP is suddenly the crowdfunding token because it can be escrowed

That would take all the trust off platforms like swarm and coinpowers, and be one of the first real uses of escrowing on the blockchain, and a damn good use for XCP - Bitcoin is the currency, and XCP is the crowdfunding/cryptofinance platform built on top.

Ok, so slight revision

the action is "I will buy A of B if C total amount of B is also purchased at the same time.  I was sent here by Z"

Z is a referrer payment address, it would get 1% or a user defined split of the tokens, which comes out of the crowdfunders side.  Basically 99% would be assigned to the sender and 1% would be assigned to the referrer, this would make it very worthwhile to run a site with a selection of campaigns that will attract investment.

So now the incentives say that an ideal crowdfunding site should have ALL the projects currently seeking funds who people will actually send money to, because they earn a little of
everyone they bring in

It is hugely expanded coverage for any but the largest crowdfunding campaign, and the cost is only 1%.  There is almost no infrastructure or financial or compliance cost because the

crowdfunding sites no longer do anything but showcase

and individuals even just on a blog can be a "Crowdfunding site" in this model

and it's (I believe) the first affiliate program built into a coin
-

Many of the problems of XCP use right now are caused by the chicken/egg of XCP being a much better currency to use (from a user experiance and cost standpoint), but few people having it and the standard way of acquiring it (for Bitcoin) is one of the clunkiest types of tx in the Counterparty system.

Soon you'll be able to open a counterwallet, send it some bitcoin, send some of the bitcoin to a Vending machine address which will send you back XCP at the days rate.  That is days or weeks away, hang tight.

[romerun]

It would help the fee issue if CP allows as many tx as possible to lump into one send.

[impulsecorp]

I posted earlier about my troubles in counterwallet.co buying XCP and then an asset using BTC (I never ended up with any XCP or the asset), but I read an article today about
Swarm so I decided to try investing my counterwallet.co BTC balance in that instead because it sounded a lot easier. I just followed the instructions on the main page of swarmcorp.com, which said "Send BTC from your counterwallet to the SWARM address" (I could have instead sent XCP to a different address if I had any XCP). I left my wallet open (it was unclear if I could close it or not for this to work) and 2 hours later I came back to my computer and now have 2 SWARMPRE in my counterwallet.co wallet. It could not have been any easier. I am not sure how Swarm was able to do that, but all the Countercoin assets should be setup that way.

- Eric


 

[led_lcd]

I posted earlier about my troubles in counterwallet.co buying XCP and then an asset using BTC (I never ended up with any XCP or the asset), but I read an article today about
Swarm so I decided to try investing my counterwallet.co BTC balance in that instead because it sounded a lot easier. I just followed the instructions on the main page of swarmcorp.com, which said "Send BTC from your counterwallet to the SWARM address" (I could have instead sent XCP to a different address if I had any XCP). I left my wallet open (it was unclear if I could close it or not for this to work) and 2 hours later I came back to my computer and now have 2 SWARMPRE in my counterwallet.co wallet. It could not have been any easier. I am not sure how Swarm was able to do that, but all the Countercoin assets should be setup that way.

- Eric

Thanks for the feedback Eric. For your information, you don't need to leave Counterwallet open to receive SWARMPRE.

Question for you and other people who are interested in investing in XCP. If the same process was available to you, would you take that option? The price would be advertised on a web page, like a BTC ticker. However, purchasing through such a means may incur slightly worse rate (say 5%) for the convenience and ease of transaction. There are other options to purchase XCP: DEx, centralised exchanges and between users but this would be just another option available to people.

[impulsecorp]

I actually had no real interest in investing in Swarm, I just did it as a test to see if I could at least buy some asset. Yes, if it were easier I would probably purchase more assets. I don't care that much about the exact rate. It is very hard to figure out how much I would normally be paying anyhow.

As an asset issuer, this would be a huge plus though, since it would make it much more simple for people to buy my asset. I would not even have to tell them the other more complicated ways of buying it.

- Eric

[led_lcd]

I actually had no real interest in investing in Swarm, I just did it as a test to see if I could at least buy some asset. Yes, if it were easier I would probably purchase more assets. I don't care that much about the exact rate. It is very hard to figure out how much I would normally be paying anyhow.

As an asset issuer, this would be a huge plus though, since it would make it much more simple for people to buy my asset. I would not even have to tell them the other more complicated ways of buying it.

- Eric

Thanks Eric. FYI, Swarm is using a vending machine based upon the code from Vennd (www.vennd.io).

Regards,

Jeremy.

[xnova]

Wrt to exchange confusion,  we heard you guys.  We have a single page buy/sell page design proposed that should be a major improvement. Ouziel can begin work on this as soon as he is done fixing some urgent outstanding bugs in counterwallet.

This wont address the whole problem (specifically around challenges trading when btc is involved... We are looking at protocol level enhancements to improve that)

[deliciousowl]

We are considering adding proof-of-stake voting to Counterparty. At a high level, how we see this working is where an issuer/owner of a given token could create a protocol-level 'referendum' event, which would most likely reference an external URL  (and could include a hash of that URL's content, to ensure consistency). The URL would point to a .json file with the referendum text, the voting end date, etc, as well as the possible choices (similar to how we do today with extended asset and feed info). Holders of the coin, via Counterwallet or similar, would then be able to vote on the referendum, and their vote would count in proportion to the amount of coin they hold out of the total amount created (or, in circulation). As these votes are done on-blockchain, they could then be easily tallied up, and there would be a clear audit trail for verifiability.

I'm thinking this feature would open Counterparty up to all sorts of interesting political applications, as well as faciliate organizational governance for companies that do crowdfunding on the platform.

Thoughts? If we can see enough interest in this feature, we can add it.

Yes, we need this. This is an important feature for peer-to-peer organizations, as well as multi-sig.

[Jpja]

I'm really impressed by the Counterwallet. I'm big supporter of this project, and the developers are on the right track. But as with any beta software there are things that could improve. Here's a list of things that could be done, in my opinion:

(1) When users trade with BTC there should be a clear warning that it is still beta. Especially when you want to buy BTC at market rate there's a chance the other side won't be logged in, so you'll never receive the btcpay. This happened to me in the beginning, and I thought i had lost some XCP (thankfully, I didn't). When buying XCP for BTC it can be advised to use a decentralized exchange.

(2) The GUI for trading can be more intuitive. I know you are working on this, and I look forward to the update. Personally I like the GUI at bter.com. You can click on a price in the order book and it fills in the trade form automatically. Click on your balance and it fills out quantity. Buy and sell forms are side by side are on the same page. In counterwallet you could do the same, i.e. on the first page only select asset #1 and asset #2, but not specifying which ones to buy and sell.

(3) When an order matches, the user should immediately get a notice. E.g. "Order Matched. Pending Block Confirmation". Real time feedback is very important for most users.

(4) Dust amounts on escrows accumulate. It would be good to view this amount under "My Account Balances" and redeem it by one click.

(5) The passphrase can be tricky to enter for children, dyslectics, and non-native English speakers. Maybe there should be an option to display the characters when entering it? Personally I'd also like have the option to enter the passphrase in a more compact encoded format. This could be displayed under "Show option" (not on front page to avoid confusion) and have characters grouped ("10420e3b0" => "104 20e 3b0") to make it easier to type manually.

Other than that, I can just say that the Counterwallet is awesome. The system for betting is excellent.

[mindtomatter]

(2) The GUI for trading can be more intuitive. I know you are working on this, and I look forward to the update. Personally I like the GUI at bter.com. You can click on a price in the order book and it fills in the trade form automatically. Click on your balance and it fills out quantity. Buy and sell forms are side by side are on the same page. In counterwallet you could do the same, i.e. on the first page only select asset #1 and asset #2, but not specifying which ones to buy and sell.

(3) When an order matches, the user should immediately get a notice. E.g. "Order Matched. Pending Block Confirmation". Real time feedback is very important for most users.

(4) Dust amounts on escrows accumulate. It would be good to view this amount under "My Account Balances" and redeem it by one click.

These specific points I want to strongly echo, 100% agree.

[PhantomPhreak]

(2) The GUI for trading can be more intuitive. I know you are working on this, and I look forward to the update. Personally I like the GUI at bter.com. You can click on a price in the order book and it fills in the trade form automatically. Click on your balance and it fills out quantity. Buy and sell forms are side by side are on the same page. In counterwallet you could do the same, i.e. on the first page only select asset #1 and asset #2, but not specifying which ones to buy and sell.

(3) When an order matches, the user should immediately get a notice. E.g. "Order Matched. Pending Block Confirmation". Real time feedback is very important for most users.

(4) Dust amounts on escrows accumulate. It would be good to view this amount under "My Account Balances" and redeem it by one click.

These specific points I want to strongly echo, 100% agree.

Yes, very good points. All of those problems now have GitHub Issues, and we'll fix them as soon as possible. Thanks!

[IamNotSure]

(4) Dust amounts on escrows accumulate. It would be good to view this amount under "My Account Balances" and redeem it by one click.

These specific points I want to strongly echo, 100% agree.

Yes, very good points. All of those problems now have GitHub Issues, and we'll fix them as soon as possible. Thanks!

An automatic integration of a coinsweeper-like function would be dope !

[mr smith]

Hi,
Looked at your video the trade time was measured by blocks !
Erm simplify > can you not use a clock / 24hrs ect 

[mindtomatter]

Hi,
Looked at your video the trade time was measured by blocks !
Erm simplify > can you not use a clock / 24hrs ect 

No.  There is no bitcoin clock, only the bitcoin blockchain which has a variance that ranges from seconds between blocks to over an hour.   Lacking a clock, you have to count blocks.  It's not exact, but it's real and its decentralized.

[deliciousowl]

Hi,
Looked at your video the trade time was measured by blocks !
Erm simplify > can you not use a clock / 24hrs ect 

No.  There is no bitcoin clock, only the bitcoin blockchain which has a variance that ranges from seconds between blocks to over an hour.   Lacking a clock, you have to count blocks.  It's not exact, but it's real and its decentralized.

Maybe something like "estimated time" may be possible, at least in days.. But I'm not even sure how accurate that would be.

[Matt Y]

I agree that a rough time estimation may be better.