[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[Jpja]

Idea to game in Counterwallet : Merkle Lotto

I don't know if this is technically possible to implement yet, but here's anyway a game I believe could be popular and fit Counterparty well.

To place a bet you pay 1 XCP and you need to specify two characters [0-9,a-f]. The XCP is put in escrow. If the next block's merkle root contains exactly one of each of your specified characters you win back all the escrowed XCPs (special case: more than one winner, they share the amount equally). The pool of escrowed XCPs contain those of everyone who participate in this game.

If no one wins at a particular block, the game continues to the next block, and so on until someone wins. The game is always open for new participants, and so the pool grows until someone wins, and the cycle starts over again.

The statistics: The merkle root is 64 characters long and exists of a set of 16 characters [0-9,a-f]. The probability of specified character appearing exactly once is : 64 * (1/16) * (15/16)^63 =~ 6.9%. The probability of both specified characters appearing exactly once is roughly 0.069^2 =~ 0.47%. If there are 10 players the probability of neither winning (i.e. game continues to next block) is (1-0.0047)^10 =~ 95.4%. If there are 20 players the prob drops to 91.0%.

The more players the larger the payout, and the more exciting it becomes.
 

I like it. The disadvantage is the time for the game to be resolved. Generally people like fast game. Maybe the 1 XCP wager should be lost if the player didn't win in the next block, so he must to put again 1 XCP to have a chance to get the jackpot. Like a slot machine..

Then I see two practical problems:
Either
1. you'd need another person to place a counterwager (as with rock-scissor-paper) - and the first person would therefore need to wait for a match
or
2. if the wager adds to a pot but you're out if you don't win on the first block, there is no reason to be the first player as in the best case you'll only win back your wager

With the game I outlined you'll eventually only win back your own wager IF (in the worst case) no one else joins, but at least you'll only lose the tiny transaction fee. If more people join it becomes more and more exciting as the pot grows.

However, I fully support one-stage games too, for the same reason as you wrote. A practical implementation can be a third-party site which always offers bets, albeit with a slight edge. E.g. you can bet 1 XCP with a 0.95% chance of winning 100 XCP. The game could be so that you win if there's a pattern such as "777" in the Merkle root. Wrap this into a nice design, and you have the world's most transparent and trustless online casino.

[1715448588]

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[JahPowerBit]

Anyone else getting this error when you try and look at asset trading. Been getting it for a couple hours now

"failoverAPI: Call failed (failed over across all servers). Method: get_market_details; Last error: undefined"

Update: Can look at a few markets but whenever I try and look at LTBCOIN/BTC (where I have a sell order), I get this error.

thanks for report. Just push a fix on github.

Thanks for the update. I was also getting that error.

There's also a little bug where sometimes the balance from a previous pair carries over to a new one when pressing the "Top Pairs" tabs. I felt pretty rich for about 1 second, and then realized it was displaying my XCP balance.

Fix pushed. Thanks.

[JahPowerBit]

Then I see two practical problems:
Either
1. you'd need another person to place a counterwager (as with rock-scissor-paper) - and the first person would therefore need to wait for a match
or
2. if the wager adds to a pot but you're out if you don't win on the first block, there is no reason to be the first player as in the best case you'll only win back your wager

With the game I outlined you'll eventually only win back your own wager IF (in the worst case) no one else joins, but at least you'll only lose the tiny transaction fee. If more people join it becomes more and more exciting as the pot grows.

You right. For this to work we should find incentive for the first player..

However, I fully support one-stage games too, for the same reason as you wrote. A practical implementation can be a third-party site which always offers bets, albeit with a slight edge. E.g. you can bet 1 XCP with a 0.95% chance of winning 100 XCP. The game could be so that you win if there's a pattern such as "777" in the Merkle root. Wrap this into a nice design, and you have the world's most transparent and trustless online casino.

I think the best solution for this, is to have a decentralised Bankroll integrated in Counterparty.
Each XCP holder could deposit some XCP in escrow in the Bankroll, and withdraw them when he wants, plus some interests generated by games.
In the future the house edge can be set by a PoS vote system.
With a Bankroll like this we can imagine a lot of games resolvable in one block.

[Anotheranonlol]

Then I see two practical problems:
Either
1. you'd need another person to place a counterwager (as with rock-scissor-paper) - and the first person would therefore need to wait for a match
or
2. if the wager adds to a pot but you're out if you don't win on the first block, there is no reason to be the first player as in the best case you'll only win back your wager

With the game I outlined you'll eventually only win back your own wager IF (in the worst case) no one else joins, but at least you'll only lose the tiny transaction fee. If more people join it becomes more and more exciting as the pot grows.

You right. For this to work we should find incentive for the first player..

However, I fully support one-stage games too, for the same reason as you wrote. A practical implementation can be a third-party site which always offers bets, albeit with a slight edge. E.g. you can bet 1 XCP with a 0.95% chance of winning 100 XCP. The game could be so that you win if there's a pattern such as "777" in the Merkle root. Wrap this into a nice design, and you have the world's most transparent and trustless online casino.

I think the best solution for this, is to have a decentralised Bankroll integrated in Counterparty.
Each XCP holder could deposit some XCP in escrow in the Bankroll, and withdraw them when he wants, plus some interests generated by games.
In the future the house edge can be set by a PoS vote system.
With a Bankroll like this we can imagine a lot of games resolvable in one block.

Is something like a decentralised just-dice possible via counterparty? --  would be amazing
I believe they closed due to some issues with canadian legislation, making it problematic to store customers funds in centralised wallets.

[JahPowerBit]

I think the best solution for this, is to have a decentralised Bankroll integrated in Counterparty.
Each XCP holder could deposit some XCP in escrow in the Bankroll, and withdraw them when he wants, plus some interests generated by games.
In the future the house edge can be set by a PoS vote system.
With a Bankroll like this we can imagine a lot of games resolvable in one block.

Is something like a decentralised just-dice possible via counterparty? --  would be amazing

yes, it's possible. The maximum speed of games will be always 1 block (don't know if it's like this in just-dice).

I believe they closed due to some issues with canadian legislation, making it problematic to store customers funds in centralised wallets.

http://just-dice.blogspot.ca/2014/06/betting-and-depositing-disabled-on-jd.html

[Viper1]

Anyone else getting this error when you try and look at asset trading. Been getting it for a couple hours now

"failoverAPI: Call failed (failed over across all servers). Method: get_market_details; Last error: undefined"

Update: Can look at a few markets but whenever I try and look at LTBCOIN/BTC (where I have a sell order), I get this error.

thanks for report. Just push a fix on github.

Does it still need to go live? Still getting the error.

[romerun]

One way I see for trustless high speed betting is user makes his strategy to bet before the merkle root or whatever the seed is out from each block and use that as a seed to decide the result of series of bets. For example,

User should be able to say:

First bet is high, if lose, double wager and bet high, otherwise bet low. User can provide his custom seed to mix up with the merkel number for dice results

It would create similar effect to high speed betting on those centralized dice sites.

[jrmg]

Is it possible to have a password on countrwallet? 12 words is a bit to much to remember unless I make a sentence but that dosen't feel safe

soon: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterwallet/issues/291

Wow great! To use both a password and 12 words at the same time seems like decreased security in my eyes=

How that can decrease security, someone need to hack your 12 word password and also read from your mind 20 characters word? In case that can choose from settings to use one or both same time. Where even need google second auth system? If you have 12 word password and same password in your gmail and both need its out of google control and its really security?

The more players the larger the payout, and the more exciting it becomes.
 
However, I fully support one-stage games too, for the same reason as you wrote.

Some many round game is also good, because peoples like win big moneys, or what you think? Bet 1 XCP and win 100 or 1000 or even more that make many take part when pot growing enough and finally there is big pot if game is long. I dont know is that possible to make, but like "real lotto" or like some keno where numbers coming from blockchain block solving time or someway, where is really small odds to win, but game can go really long if dont find winners.

Think situation where there first have only coins from small grou, then prize pool and coin value growing slowly, but we dont have yet winner in really long round. When pot size growing enough we can see news in bitcoin sites "bet with xcp and have possibility win xxxxx $ or btc"

If one game come enough long 6month-1 or 2 year, that can make winner really rich and same time there maybe have some marketing value, maybe just in right time when normal peoples start coming interesting about bitcoins and buy also couple XCP and add one or half to lotto and pot growing even further.

[delulo]

Is it correct that someone that wants to bet with counterparty needs to trust the price feed that is supported by one person and that the outcome of the bet is executed automatically based on the provided feed?

[PhantomPhreak]

Is it correct that someone that wants to bet with counterparty needs to trust the price feed that is supported by one person and that the outcome of the bet is executed automatically based on the provided feed?

Yes, that is correct. We are, however, working on implementing support for betting on the concensus of multiple, independent oracles, too.

[PhantomPhreak]

Announcement: We've just received an initial report from Peter Todd concerning his security audit of Counterparty and the counterpartyd code. Peter Todd is an expert in Bitcoin and metacoins (like Counterparty) in particular. I'm proud to announce that he found no significant security issues. Of course, he has recommended a number of small improvements that we can and will make over the next couple of weeks. I'm just now listing all specific points on GitHub under the tag 'Peter Todd Audit', where they will be visible to all and wide-open for both discussion and implementation.

This is the second security audit that we've had performed on the protocol specification and its reference implementation. The first was completed by Sergey Demian-Lerner a few months ago, soon after which all major concerns were addressed (of course, our test coverage could always be better!). As far as I know, we are the only major Bitcoin 2.0 project to have had any formal, comprensive, expert security audits of its codebase, and now we have had not one, but two!

[SolarWindMiningCompany]

This is an unofficial pre-announcement meant to inform the Counteryparty Community about a new asset class being made available to Counterparty users...


The SolarWind Mining Company (SWMC) has been working on building a Hashing EXchange (HEX) for the past several months. SWMC expects to have the official launch of the SWMC-HEX sometime between mid September and late November. SWMC will be offering preorders for Bitcoin mining hash power via Counterparty through an asset called SWMCHEX.


About the SWMCHEX asset:


     One SWMCHEX is equal to one GHS, and a total of 5 PH/s (5,000,000 SWMCHEX) have been issued with 4,000,000 SWMCHEX being sold at ~85¢/GHS. Bitcoin earnings from mining will be paid via Counterparty's built in dividend feature. SWMC-HEX is making the first 1,000,000 SWMCHEX (1 PH/s) available now and there will be a 10% bonus to purchasers. So, if you purchase 100 SWMCHEX you'll actually receive 110 GHS!! The additional 1,000,000 SWMCHEX will be used for bonuses, giveaways, bounties, to cover variances in the exchange rate of BTC or are to be sold before launch.


     Be one of the first 500 purchasers of at least 100 GHS and you'll be eligible to win 1 TH/s worth of SWMCHEX!!


Some of the major features of the SWMC-HEX:


     Tradable Mining Power which can be bought our sold at a price you determine


     Instant ROI Calculation based on you buy price allows you to estimate how long it will take for your purchased hashing power to mine enough currency to reach your targeted ROI, at what price you must sell hashing power you own to obtain ROI or what combination of both mining time and sell price will achieve ROI for you... By using the Instant ROI Calculation you will be empowered to make the right decision on your mining purchases and the tool so you never have to buy to high, sell to low or to soon to reach ROI ever again...


     Our hosted miningware will be utilizing Immersion Cooling to increase efficiency and protect the miningware from heat damage and extending its usability


     SWMC's miningware will be Fabricated by the SWMC using open source hardware PCBs specifically designed to work with any cryptocurrency mining chip, making the SWMC-HEX capable of scaling up mining power very quickly using the most cost effective hashing power available at any given time


     SWMC believes that large mining operations should help protect the Decentralized Nature of Bitcoin's Hashing Network, so,.. The SolarWind Mining Company will make it possible for owners of hashing power on the SWMC-HEX to point that hashing power to any mining pool that they wish, essentially the same way that they would control a physical miner in their own possession.


     A "Create Your Own Mining Pool" feature which can be used for solo mining or for creating a mining pool that others can join for crowdfunding, group buys, investments, savings accounts, retirement funds, etc,..  etc,..  etc,..


     Miningware hosted in a US location with 5.5¢ kw/h electricity

[delulo]

Is it correct that someone that wants to bet with counterparty needs to trust the price feed that is supported by one person and that the outcome of the bet is executed automatically based on the provided feed?

Yes, that is correct. We are, however, working on implementing support for betting on the concensus of multiple, independent oracles, too.

Thanks for your answer.
What is an INDEPENDENT oracle? Sounds interesting but who is providing it?

[nutildah]

Is it correct that someone that wants to bet with counterparty needs to trust the price feed that is supported by one person and that the outcome of the bet is executed automatically based on the provided feed?

Yes, that is correct. We are, however, working on implementing support for betting on the concensus of multiple, independent oracles, too.

Thanks for your answer.
What is an INDEPENDENT oracle? Sounds interesting but who is providing it?

I also had a similar question.

ESPN.com has some pretty reliable feeds when it comes to sports outcomes.. is it possible to use some central commercial authority to generate feeds? What about Wikipedia? -- oh wait, bad idea..

I can't actually access the feature using my native IP but will experiment in the future.

[jaybny]

hi page 459, how are you? im about to start an asset on counter-party. any advice?  RTFM is all i can think off.

[PhantomPhreak]

Is it correct that someone that wants to bet with counterparty needs to trust the price feed that is supported by one person and that the outcome of the bet is executed automatically based on the provided feed?

Yes, that is correct. We are, however, working on implementing support for betting on the concensus of multiple, independent oracles, too.

Thanks for your answer.
What is an INDEPENDENT oracle? Sounds interesting but who is providing it?

I also had a similar question.

ESPN.com has some pretty reliable feeds when it comes to sports outcomes.. is it possible to use some central commercial authority to generate feeds? What about Wikipedia? -- oh wait, bad idea..

I can't actually access the feature using my native IP but will experiment in the future.

By 'independent', I meant independent from each other and independent from Countertparty.

To use ESPN feeds, someone currently has to translate that that data into the Counterparty broadcasts.

[Spratan]

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

"Overstock has already held extensive discussions with a company called CounterParty, which offers software that could help drive such a cryptosecurity..."

[mailmansDOGE]

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

"Overstock has already held extensive discussions with a company called CounterParty, which offers software that could help drive such a cryptosecurity..."

Good to see that overstock has more big plans

[coinburgers]

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

"Overstock has already held extensive discussions with a company called CounterParty, which offers software that could help drive such a cryptosecurity..."

Good to see that overstock has more big plans

Wow!

Reddit thread: Overstock Hopes to Issue Shares on Bitcoin with Counterparty
Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8108163

edit: updated links

[BitThink]

Great news. Will see how they handle the legal issues.