{BFL} Here's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK at your Monarch!

[Unacceptable]

Sonny took care of that,you'd be surprised how "campaign contributions" can help in situations like this  

Now wouldn't that be a shocking story. "Butterfly Labs accused of bribing state and federal officials to avoid fraud prosecution"

I mean, it would certainly explain how they've managed to refine their business practices over the last two years, allowing them to stay afloat.

I need to think that such conspiracy theories are just that, however.

Or possibly...



I suppose a legitimately curious question, however, might be "Would Butterfly Labs have been able to survive to present day if it did not have an infusion of preorder funds, maintained by a refusal to issue refunds in a timely manner ?"

No shock at all,lobbyists from ALL the big corporations do it daily in Washington DC.

It's all the rage to pay off politicians to get tax loop holes, dereg's from the EPA,FDA,etc....& you too can buy a Supreme Court Justice now too !!!

It's been going on for many years,BUT it just recently has gotten way out of hand. With well over 300,000 lobbyists roaming the capital now a days...................... 

[Bitsaurus]

Apparently BFL has managed to pull of the perception of incompetence instead of shady, fraudulent hardware vendor.  If the fraud was more evident they would have folded by now.  They have professionals working there.

[LittleD]

Quote Originally Posted by IndigoInk View Post
"It's more probable that this is being doing as a result of the pressure from the class actions than anything more altruistic. By allowing the initial pre-orderers a way out via refund BFL would be removing the basis of the class action arguments."

Quote Originally posted by Inabobo/josh
"That would be credible if there was a class action lawsuit, but since there is not... you are once again spreading false information and it's getting pretty tiring, gotta say. I'm also pretty tired of you and other ascribing ulterior motives to everything that is done. We are a business and we are doing what we can to remain viable as well as provide the best service we can to our customers. I'm sorry you feel slighted, but the fact is that we are doing the best we can with what we have. There are no evil motives or backroom deals. There are no money grabs or people running off with funds/equipment. I have always tried to do right by the miners with the tools and abilities that we have at our disposal and I've always had people like you to come and crap all over what we try to do and it really ticks me off.

 Unlike most of the other mining companies, we've been around and continue to be around. We haven't gone out of business, stolen funds, not delivered equipment (even if we were late). We've gone through how many companies now that said we didn't know how to do the job and we were idiots and didn't know what we were doing and that they'd show us how it's done... and every single one of them - every one - Has run into the same problems. Not a single mining company has released a chip that was at the original specs. Many/most of them have shipped late. Several of those companies are out of business or going out of business as we speak, their customers left with nothing. Yet here we are, still here and still trying to do right by the customers and we catch all the crap.

 I am sorry that we are late, I really am. We aim to ship quality products, not pieces of crap that don't work or fall apart. Trolling aside, our 65nm hardware was rock solid, easily far and away the most robust, best designed hardware in the industry. The FPGA singles were rock solid as well, and the minirigs blew everything else out of the water. I know, we were late, yes, I know that. Yes it pains me a great deal and yes we are working on that. We never expected the volumes we had on equipment and it really screwed up the shipping on our previous generation. We didn't expect the problems we are having now with the 28nm stuff - first the metal layer of the chips, now the power issue on the boards, but we're still here and we've pretty much got everything resolved and we will be shipping (or refunding to those that want it). We aren't going out of business or disappearing in the middle of the night like most of the other ASIC companies. We are public about our identities and locations, and we invite people to stop by our facilities and take a look if they want. We are the most open ASIC company out there and we get all the flak and it gets tiring.

 Go buy from Hashfast or Cointerra if we are such a crappy company, see how well that works out for you."

[cutepuppy]

Apparently BFL has managed to pull of the perception of incompetence instead of shady, fraudulent hardware vendor.  If the fraud was more evident they would have folded by now.  They have professionals working there.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply unable to design a miner that meets the specs that they promised. Bit regardless if it is incompetence or fraud the net result to the consumer is the same.

[Henchman24]

Quote Originally Posted by IndigoInk View Post
"It's more probable that this is being doing as a result of the pressure from the class actions than anything more altruistic. By allowing the initial pre-orderers a way out via refund BFL would be removing the basis of the class action arguments."

Quote Originally posted by Inabobo/josh
"That would be credible if there was a class action lawsuit, but since there is not... you are once again spreading false information and it's getting pretty tiring, gotta say. I'm also pretty tired of you and other ascribing ulterior motives to everything that is done. We are a business and we are doing what we can to remain viable as well as provide the best service we can to our customers. I'm sorry you feel slighted, but the fact is that we are doing the best we can with what we have. There are no evil motives or backroom deals. There are no money grabs or people running off with funds/equipment. I have always tried to do right by the miners with the tools and abilities that we have at our disposal and I've always had people like you to come and crap all over what we try to do and it really ticks me off.

 Unlike most of the other mining companies, we've been around and continue to be around. We haven't gone out of business, stolen funds, not delivered equipment (even if we were late). We've gone through how many companies now that said we didn't know how to do the job and we were idiots and didn't know what we were doing and that they'd show us how it's done... and every single one of them - every one - Has run into the same problems. Not a single mining company has released a chip that was at the original specs. Many/most of them have shipped late. Several of those companies are out of business or going out of business as we speak, their customers left with nothing. Yet here we are, still here and still trying to do right by the customers and we catch all the crap.

 I am sorry that we are late, I really am. We aim to ship quality products, not pieces of crap that don't work or fall apart. Trolling aside, our 65nm hardware was rock solid, easily far and away the most robust, best designed hardware in the industry. The FPGA singles were rock solid as well, and the minirigs blew everything else out of the water. I know, we were late, yes, I know that. Yes it pains me a great deal and yes we are working on that. We never expected the volumes we had on equipment and it really screwed up the shipping on our previous generation. We didn't expect the problems we are having now with the 28nm stuff - first the metal layer of the chips, now the power issue on the boards, but we're still here and we've pretty much got everything resolved and we will be shipping (or refunding to those that want it). We aren't going out of business or disappearing in the middle of the night like most of the other ASIC companies. We are public about our identities and locations, and we invite people to stop by our facilities and take a look if they want. We are the most open ASIC company out there and we get all the flak and it gets tiring.

 Go buy from Hashfast or Cointerra if we are such a crappy company, see how well that works out for you."

Might not fall on deaf ears if you greedy fuckers hadn't continued to take orders from the clueless.  Cry us a fucking river, Josh.

[DrG]

Apparently BFL has managed to pull of the perception of incompetence instead of shady, fraudulent hardware vendor.  If the fraud was more evident they would have folded by now.  They have professionals working there.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply unable to design a miner that meets the specs that they promised. Bit regardless if it is incompetence or fraud the net result to the consumer is the same.

It's not the same. If it's complete incompetence then BFL really has not made any hardware and they are not contributing to the network and making the difficulty rise.

If it's fraud, they are using the funds to either buy hardware from other companies or secretly mine on their customers hardware (something they have admitted to in court).  In this case they would be enriching themselves, and if the customer had other miners then they would actually be stealing even more profits from their customers.  Avalon did this and mined on their customers hardware when they were the only ASIC game in town.  Not only did they make profits, they punished their customers who had GPU and FPGA farms.

Don't be so naive.

[k9quaint]

Apparently BFL has managed to pull of the perception of incompetence instead of shady, fraudulent hardware vendor.  If the fraud was more evident they would have folded by now.  They have professionals working there.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply unable to design a miner that meets the specs that they promised. Bit regardless if it is incompetence or fraud the net result to the consumer is the same.

It's not the same. If it's complete incompetence then BFL really has not made any hardware and they are not contributing to the network and making the difficulty rise.

If it's fraud, they are using the funds to either buy hardware from other companies or secretly mine on their customers hardware (something they have admitted to in court).  In this case they would be enriching themselves, and if the customer had other miners then they would actually be stealing even more profits from their customers.  Avalon did this and mined on their customers hardware when they were the only ASIC game in town.  Not only did they make profits, they punished their customers who had GPU and FPGA farms.

Don't be so naive.

Ever notice how the people who defend BFL have posts counts in the single digits? 

Name:   cutepuppy
Posts:   8
Activity:   8
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   July 21, 2014, 01:43:09 AM
Last Active:   July 23, 2014, 01:51:45 AM

[Xian01]

Ever notice how the people who defend BFL have posts counts in the single digits? 
Name:   cutepuppy
Posts:   8
Activity:   8
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   July 21, 2014, 01:43:09 AM
Last Active:   July 23, 2014, 01:51:45 AM

It's sad because it's either

a) Sock-puppet / Shill
b) Newbie customer who doesn't know any better when dealing with Butterfly Labs

[-ck]

Ever notice how the people who defend BFL have posts counts in the single digits? 

Name:   cutepuppy
Posts:   8
Activity:   8
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   July 21, 2014, 01:43:09 AM
Last Active:   July 23, 2014, 01:51:45 AM

Not true, there are multiple digit post counts from employees of BFL that defend them.

[k9quaint]

Ever notice how the people who defend BFL have posts counts in the single digits? 

Name:   cutepuppy
Posts:   8
Activity:   8
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   July 21, 2014, 01:43:09 AM
Last Active:   July 23, 2014, 01:51:45 AM

Not true, there are multiple digit post counts from employees of BFL that defend them.

True. The jury may still be out as to whether they are people, but there are certainly forum accounts that match that description. 

[Xian01]

The jury may still be out as to whether they are people

Are you suggesting they might, in fact, be meat popsicles ?

[Searing]

The jury may still be out as to whether they are people

Are you suggesting they might, in fact, be meat popsicles ?

well they obviously are "soul less" puppets of BFL ....brainwashed! (the horror)

Searing

[grn]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

[Searing]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

[grn]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

[DrG]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

Their exit strategy happened last week back in March 2013 when they kept saying they would have the miners shipping "next week" - not the infamous two weeks.  They continued to get orders even though they kept promising to ship, and then they started a very slow trickle of miners.  I think they were surprised at what they were able to get away with and then went for the Prestige - the Monarch.  Again I am amazed that place has not seen some form of attack considering all the angry mobs.

[grn]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

Their exit strategy happened last week back in March 2013 when they kept saying they would have the miners shipping "next week" - not the infamous two weeks.  They continued to get orders even though they kept promising to ship, and then they started a very slow trickle of miners.  I think they were surprised at what they were able to get away with and then went for the Prestige - the Monarch.  Again I am amazed that place has not seen some form of attack considering all the angry mobs.

I would love to own one of these miners! somebody got one to sell? USD name your price and i will take your monarch today

[Unacceptable]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

Their exit strategy happened last week back in March 2013 when they kept saying they would have the miners shipping "next week" - not the infamous two weeks.  They continued to get orders even though they kept promising to ship, and then they started a very slow trickle of miners.  I think they were surprised at what they were able to get away with and then went for the Prestige - the Monarch.  Again I am amazed that place has not seen some form of attack considering all the angry mobs.

I would love to own one of these miners! somebody got one to sell? USD name your price and i will take your monarch today

   BFL has not shipped any miners,BUT...if you were to get into Eclipse Mining Consortium's datacenter...you could get a few in a backpack & walk away

But again,they're less than 400GH ATM & probably will be for quite sometime    

Looking like BFL ain't shipping this month,probably not Aug,maybe Sept/Oct  

[grn]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

Their exit strategy happened last week back in March 2013 when they kept saying they would have the miners shipping "next week" - not the infamous two weeks.  They continued to get orders even though they kept promising to ship, and then they started a very slow trickle of miners.  I think they were surprised at what they were able to get away with and then went for the Prestige - the Monarch.  Again I am amazed that place has not seen some form of attack considering all the angry mobs.

I would love to own one of these miners! somebody got one to sell? USD name your price and i will take your monarch today

   BFL has not shipped any miners,BUT...if you were to get into Eclipse Mining Consortium's datacenter...you could get a few in a backpack & walk away

But again,they're less than 400GH ATM & probably will be for quite sometime    

Looking like BFL ain't shipping this month,probably not Aug,maybe Sept/Oct  

How do you know the hashrate? inside information?  If you want your money back look at pools,other than emc, get the ag involved and do your due dilligence

[Unacceptable]

I've been watching this trainwreck for a while wondering why you people don't collaborate on chapter 7 proceedings against bfl or take direct legal action. Posting on a forum will get youu nowhere.

my .02

it has all been tried done..;people won in small claims court could not collect so they went to class action suit..someone posted that if they go thru all the steps to a trial it would start in jan of 2016.....FTC/BBB/county attorney/etc ..all in my experience went no place (so far)

so basically BFL is getting away with it....I still expect them to go bankrupt and slip out with their EMC pool and personal assets/miners intact....
the BFL corp will go bankrupt with fines or settle class action...BFL imho is circling the wagons

but yeah no enforcement of regulations in the USA anymore...Gov't just wants to settle for cash...and the company in question does so by being
allowed to admit no wrongdoing (look at us banks all officers got off no one went to jail) and same with class action suit 1/2 will go to law firm
so they imho will settle long before trial....

anyway another corp win 1 people users lose 0... so it goes

Searing

From the angle of someone not involved i have learned a lot on this thread. bcp has been alluding to something that he/she knows you people need to take on bfl before its too late. looks to me like their exit strategy is close

Their exit strategy happened last week back in March 2013 when they kept saying they would have the miners shipping "next week" - not the infamous two weeks.  They continued to get orders even though they kept promising to ship, and then they started a very slow trickle of miners.  I think they were surprised at what they were able to get away with and then went for the Prestige - the Monarch.  Again I am amazed that place has not seen some form of attack considering all the angry mobs.

I would love to own one of these miners! somebody got one to sell? USD name your price and i will take your monarch today

   BFL has not shipped any miners,BUT...if you were to get into Eclipse Mining Consortium's datacenter...you could get a few in a backpack & walk away

But again,they're less than 400GH ATM & probably will be for quite sometime    

Looking like BFL ain't shipping this month,probably not Aug,maybe Sept/Oct  

How do you know the hashrate? inside information?  If you want your money back look at pools,other than emc, get the ag involved and do your due dilligence

Uh,no,Josh has stated several times that the under performing miners will be used by them to give hashrate to early preorder holders.RIIGGHHHT 

They will be hosting them at EMC,therein why I said arrange a visit & get em