Why do people think income tax is ok?

[PrintMule]

It's funny for me to listen about big tv's as I'm quite poor. Also that bit about "tax treshhold". The only tax threshold we have is under 0 EUR, lol.

As a kid, child, after your birth - you already have to purchase an ID/Passport. Which costs money. Which is taxed. You cannot be fed with simply water or air. Again - taxed. An etc.

You cannot avoid buying things without breaking the law. Therefore - you cannot avoid tax. And even if you're living on welfare or something, you still pay the tax. And other people pay tax so that you could pay yours. There's no country without a tax. You can skip on some taxes by being a "world citizen" (which is almost impossible to become) or changing your country every X months.

Try to renounce your citizenship, whichever country you may live in. It's impossible. They got you by the balls/vulva from your birth. Google "value of life" for some info on why we are a bunch of slaves, basically.

[guybrushthreepwood]

It's funny for me to listen about big tv's as I'm quite poor. Also that bit about "tax treshhold". The only tax threshold we have is under 0 EUR, lol.

As a kid, child, after your birth - you already have to purchase an ID/Passport. Which costs money. Which is taxed. You cannot be fed with simply water or air. Again - taxed. An etc.

You cannot avoid buying things without breaking the law. Therefore - you cannot avoid tax. And even if you're living on welfare or something, you still pay the tax. And other people pay tax so that you could pay yours. There's no country without a tax. You can skip on some taxes by being a "world citizen" (which is almost impossible to become) or changing your country every X months.

Try to renounce your citizenship, whichever country you may live in. It's impossible. They got you by the balls/vulva from your birth. Google "value of life" for some info on why we are a bunch of slaves, basically.

You're being incredibly naive and close-minded. You're just assuming it's impossible and it's not. Tell me, does a child purchase a passport or do his parents purchase it? You're not even forced to pay for a passport in this country but I don't know about yours. Maybe that child grows up in a travelling community or hippie tax-resisting commune anyway. And arguing about children is ridiculous. We're talking about adults here who can make an informed decision to not pay taxes and they can. You are not forced, but maybe you feel like you are, but you can give up paying tax at any time. Move to a country where there is 0 tax if you refuse to pay or live off the earth which is your choice. Many hardcore anti-establishment types do this. Next you'll be telling me you cannot be truly vegan or anarchist. If you want live in a tent and eat wild /foraged food and make your own clothes you can, but I get it, you want a relatively comfy life so you pay your little bit of taxes, but if you want out there are several options available for you.

[PrintMule]

If you insist that you're not simply trolling, then please provide an example of "true 0% tax" country, so I can pack my suitcases.

[guybrushthreepwood]

If you insist that you're not simply trolling, then please provide an example of "true 0% tax" country, so I can pack my suitcases.

In what way would I be trolling? I hope you're not trolling. Do some research. I don't know if there's many countries that will lock you up for avoiding any taxes unless you get yourself into a situation where they are owed. Go wherever you want and eat the grass and live under the stars and you can pay no taxes and you truly will be free (but I'd check the local laws first just to be safe). You might not be comfortable sometimes but I can assure you no police with guns will be after you unless you start doing illegal shit. But my guess is you'd rather stay at home infront of the comfort of your computer and modestly-sized TV and keep paying to play The Game, right?

[bitlancr]

Go wherever you want and eat the grass and live under the stars and you can pay no taxes and you truly will be free (but I'd check the local laws first just to be safe).

OK, let's say I do that.

Now some friends of mine also decide they want to be free, and come join me under the stars.

Now some friends of friends get in on the act. We specialise - some build houses, some catch game, some forage for fruit. We start trading with each other, using rare stones as tokens of value.

We have children, and others join, our population grows.

And what point do you think the government would butt in and start demanding taxes? When would freedom become tyranny?

[Holdaaja]

Taxes suck :/

[guybrushthreepwood]

Taxes suck :/

Would they suck if they provided all the services you want or need and weren’t spent of needless wars and laundered to big business? How they're currently corruptly spent sucks, but we as a people need to change the game. It can be done but not so easily because most people are idiots who don't care nor do they want to be disturbed from their Saturday morning breakfast shows and soaps, so they just pay their taxes and get on with it.

[Carlton Banks]

Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

If you don't want your money taxed, just don't have any money! They can't tax your clothes, or your straggly beard. Well, at least not in this century. Why didn't we think of this before! Guybrush is the anarchist philosopher of the new age!

[Holdaaja]

Taxes suck :/

Would they suck if they provided all the services you want or need and weren’t spent of needless wars and laundered to big business? How they're currently corruptly spent sucks, but we as a people need to change the game. It can be done but not so easily because most people are idiots who don't care nor do they want to be disturbed from their Saturday morning breakfast shows and soaps, so they just pay their taxes and get on with it.

Yeah, there is much for improvement.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

Then you will anger the vegan anarchists. And you don't need to be homeless.

[Sindelar1938]

Public, shared services cost money
Income tax helps fund it

[Carlton Banks]

Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

Then you will anger the vegan anarchists. And you don't need to be homeless.

Property taxes.... I think homeless is the only viable option.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

Then you will anger the vegan anarchists. And you don't need to be homeless.

Property taxes.... I think homeless is the only viable option.

Not at all.

[EvilPanda]

Public, shared services cost money
Income tax helps fund it

Not really - income tax punishes inovative and hard-working people. It's unjust, as it takes more from the ones who earn more, so it promotes equality and people are not the same. Some are smart, some are stupid, some are lazy and some aren't. Treating all people in the same way is a communist crap.

Now let me ask you where does your VAT go if you pay it? And excise tax? Health insurance? Property tax? Customs tax? Road tax? If this is not enough to fund services?

Furthermore, we additionaly pay for most services like energy, sewage, water, security, education.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Public, shared services cost money
Income tax helps fund it

Not really - income tax punishes inovative and hard-working people. It's unjust, as it takes more from the ones who earn more, so it promotes equality and people are not the same. Some are smart, some are stupid, some are lazy and some aren't. Treating all people in the same way is a communist crap.

Now let me ask you where does your VAT go if you pay it? And excise tax? Health insurance? Property tax? Customs tax? Road tax? If this is not enough to fund services?

Furthermore, we additionaly pay for most services like energy, sewage, water, security, education.

What do you mean "not really"? What he said is true. And there's an answer to your issues. Make taxes fairer. Maybe introduce a flat tax or only VAT. I don't agree with penalising the rich or punishing the poor. Everybody chips in a fair around and what they can afford and everyone benefits. Would you not mind paying taxes if you had great services and healthcare / education?

[bitlancr]

Property taxes.... I think homeless is the only viable option.

Not at all.

What do you mean "not at all?" What he said is true...

Would you not mind paying taxes if you had great services and healthcare / education?

I'd rather keep the all money I earn and pay for great services that I choose - services that I need, or services that benefit others.

Key word here is choose.

[CPascale]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Because it distracts from the fact that the truly rich aren't getting taxed on theirs.

In the US, capital gains taxes are based on income tax rate. So, if you have no earned income then your capital gains rate is zero.

It's likely this was why Mitt Romney would not disclose more of his finances from the years when he wasn't Governor of MA and his wife was ill. It would have exposed that he made millions but paid no taxes because he didn't get a W-2 or 1099.

[Duane Vick]

To assume that taxation is the only solution to the problem is akin to shutting your mind off to looking for other possible solutions.

Too many people spouting that taxes are a necessary evil and not enough saying "isn't there a better way?" I challenge everyone to think outside the box.

[hilariousandco]

To assume that taxation is the only solution to the problem is akin to shutting your mind off to looking for other possible solutions.

Too many people spouting that taxes are a necessary evil and not enough saying "isn't there a better way?" I challenge everyone to think outside the box.

I don't think people said it was the only way, but what's the better way, Mr Think Outside The Box? 

[Duane Vick]

I think you have to gradually wean off the system of taxation. America has existed longer without the 16th Amendment than with it.

People think you need taxes for roads. Not income taxes as there is a tax on fuel already. However, I would go so far as to say that businesses have a vested interest in making sure there is good access to their locations so those businesses who build and maintain access will thrive. Just look at any major mall and you will often see roads that are maintained by the mall. Home builders create the roads in their subdivisions, voluntary HOAs can maintain those roads and some do.

Police. Many people don't need them if they were to take it upon themselves to procure the means of defending their lives and property from criminals. Investigations into crimes can be conducted by insurance companies, private investigators, etc.

Prisons. Wouldn't need 90% of them if we weren't locking people up for plants. Anyone convicted of heinous crimes like murder, rape, etc., could be executed in rapid fashion instead of being warehoused for years.

Fire. In many areas, people pay to be protected by a fire department. They get a bill for it. I suspect that if there were no government-operated fire departments, private fire departments would fill the void. People can either pay them directly or take out an insurance policy on their home. Since many lenders require insurance, the vast majority of mortgaged properties would be covered against loss. Those insurance companies may opt to pay for fire protection.

and so on, and so on....

You have to take small parts of supposed government responsibilities and return it to the private market for a solution. Then you drop the tax by the associated amount of savings. Eventually, you eliminate tax altogether on citizens. Import taxes can continue to exist because companies in other nations voluntarily ship goods for imports.