[ANN] Levelcoin - Proof of Stake / Proof of Burn Hybrid - Inflation Immune

[Legcorner]

It is a good a question. This is how it works. First, it will be very difficult to have multiple wallets to cheat the system. I will be creating personalized wallets for everyone. But even then it is very difficult. Say you had 10,000 level 1 coins that were 1 year old and you never burned them. Now lets say you sold those level 1 coins on an exchange, and bought 10,000 level 1 coins from the exchange. The wallet remembers this transaction and sets the coins you just purchased to 1 year old. If you bought 20,000 level 1 coin on the exchange, then you will have 10,000 1 year old coins and 10,000 fresh coins. I am calling this "average age debt". I've said it numerous times, if you don't balance burning with selling, then you won't be efficient. Both burning and selling on exchanges helps the ecosystem to flourish and has significant benefits over hoarding level 1 coins.

awesome

Some analysis on the whole level idea at a different coin thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422052.msg4744448#msg4744448

Interesting analysis, though I would find it more credible without intervened personal attacks on Nex creator.

Levelcoin, I wonder what your opinion on this danger of constant inflation?

this analysis does not include any of the diminishing, i think

[Level Coin]

Some analysis on the whole level idea at a different coin thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422052.msg4744448#msg4744448

Interesting analysis, though I would find it more credible without intervened personal attacks on Nex creator.

Levelcoin, I wonder what your opinion on this danger of constant inflation?

The person making the analysis points out two "fatal" flaws in the NEX prototype.

The first being that tier one coins will inflate over time. This is a flaw in NEX and not in Level coin.
Locked wallet based diminishing returns nullify any prolonged inflation, causing users to burn which in turn creates a strong deflation.

The second being that whats the point of having first tier coins when you can just hoard second tier coins.
Again this is a flaw in NEX and not in Level coin. Without LV1 coins, you will never be able to make exchanges or cash out.
At some point you have to stop burning and start selling to newcomers which helps them get started on their own burns.

[Level Coin]

GUI is being completed faster than I imagined. It is now in the cards for release.

[Snard]

GUI is being completed faster than I imagined. It is now in the cards for release.

Can you provide us a quick work-in-progress screenshot of the gui please.

[BeeFer310]

It is more profitable to immediately burn to LV2, hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved, them burn another one.
You then ride the profit from the first LV2 coin and make additional profit from the newly created LV2 coin.
The rate of decay is 1,000 in a year, 1500 in two years, 1750 in three years, 1875 in four, and so on.
This does not factor in coins generated from the LV1 made.

Are you assuming that an account has only 1000 LV1 or does the "hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved" point also works best with more than 1000 LV1?
If you are a guy who invested 1BTC then you have 150000 LV1 and if you burn all immediate you have 150 LV2 which will give him 1000 LV1 after a few days. If I read this quote right then you are recommending that this guy hold them for a year. If I understood you right, then I don’t get the point why he should not burn the next LV1 as fast as he can.

It is a good a question. This is how it works. First, it will be very difficult to have multiple wallets to cheat the system. I will be creating personalized wallets for everyone. But even then it is very difficult. Say you had 10,000 level 1 coins that were 1 year old and you never burned them. Now lets say you sold those level 1 coins on an exchange, and bought 10,000 level 1 coins from the exchange. The wallet remembers this transaction and sets the coins you just purchased to 1 year old. If you bought 20,000 level 1 coin on the exchange, then you will have 10,000 1 year old coins and 10,000 fresh coins. I am calling this "average age debt". I've said it numerous times, if you don't balance burning with selling, then you won't be efficient. Both burning and selling on exchanges helps the ecosystem to flourish and has significant benefits over hoarding level 1 coins.

If you plan to make personalized wallets what’s with anonymity and security of the participants in the network?
Do you have any ideas to make wallets created anonymous or have them on paper or something similar save for the future?

[Level Coin]

It is more profitable to immediately burn to LV2, hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved, them burn another one.
You then ride the profit from the first LV2 coin and make additional profit from the newly created LV2 coin.
The rate of decay is 1,000 in a year, 1500 in two years, 1750 in three years, 1875 in four, and so on.
This does not factor in coins generated from the LV1 made.

Are you assuming that an account has only 1000 LV1 or does the "hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved" point also works best with more than 1000 LV1?
If you are a guy who invested 1BTC then you have 150000 LV1 and if you burn all immediate you have 150 LV2 which will give him 1000 LV1 after a few days. If I read this quote right then you are recommending that this guy hold them for a year. If I understood you right, then I don’t get the point why he should not burn the next LV1 as fast as he can.

It is a good a question. This is how it works. First, it will be very difficult to have multiple wallets to cheat the system. I will be creating personalized wallets for everyone. But even then it is very difficult. Say you had 10,000 level 1 coins that were 1 year old and you never burned them. Now lets say you sold those level 1 coins on an exchange, and bought 10,000 level 1 coins from the exchange. The wallet remembers this transaction and sets the coins you just purchased to 1 year old. If you bought 20,000 level 1 coin on the exchange, then you will have 10,000 1 year old coins and 10,000 fresh coins. I am calling this "average age debt". I've said it numerous times, if you don't balance burning with selling, then you won't be efficient. Both burning and selling on exchanges helps the ecosystem to flourish and has significant benefits over hoarding level 1 coins.

If you plan to make personalized wallets what’s with anonymity and security of the participants in the network?
Do you have any ideas to make wallets created anonymous or have them on paper or something similar save for the future?

I was responding to an earlier post which was assuming 1,000 LV1 in the account. In this case he would be able to burn one Level 2 coin. You would not be able to burn anything else until an ROI is achieved because you would simply not have enough LV1. You understood incorrectly, I never said people should hold LV1 coins past the minimum required to burn. LV1 coins serve the purpose of being exchanged and burned. The only time you should be saving LV1 coins is when you have less than 1,000 to commit a burn. If the goal is to increase growth, then burning LV1 to LV2 immediately upon having the ability to do so is the best course of action. This is not a guideline on what MUST be done. Everyone will handle their accounts their own way, I am merely demonstrating what is best for everyone, including the economy behind it.

The anonymity is a courtesy to users. By personalized I did not mean have their name attached to it. I simply meant they will have a username/password that they create the first time they run the wallet. Once logged in they will see their specific amount of Level 1 coins which I hand placed depending on their funding amount.

[LeoC]

It is more profitable to immediately burn to LV2, hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved, them burn another one.
You then ride the profit from the first LV2 coin and make additional profit from the newly created LV2 coin.
The rate of decay is 1,000 in a year, 1500 in two years, 1750 in three years, 1875 in four, and so on.
This does not factor in coins generated from the LV1 made.

Are you assuming that an account has only 1000 LV1 or does the "hold all LV1 generated until the ROI is achieved" point also works best with more than 1000 LV1?
If you are a guy who invested 1BTC then you have 150000 LV1 and if you burn all immediate you have 150 LV2 which will give him 1000 LV1 after a few days. If I read this quote right then you are recommending that this guy hold them for a year. If I understood you right, then I don’t get the point why he should not burn the next LV1 as fast as he can.

It is a good a question. This is how it works. First, it will be very difficult to have multiple wallets to cheat the system. I will be creating personalized wallets for everyone. But even then it is very difficult. Say you had 10,000 level 1 coins that were 1 year old and you never burned them. Now lets say you sold those level 1 coins on an exchange, and bought 10,000 level 1 coins from the exchange. The wallet remembers this transaction and sets the coins you just purchased to 1 year old. If you bought 20,000 level 1 coin on the exchange, then you will have 10,000 1 year old coins and 10,000 fresh coins. I am calling this "average age debt". I've said it numerous times, if you don't balance burning with selling, then you won't be efficient. Both burning and selling on exchanges helps the ecosystem to flourish and has significant benefits over hoarding level 1 coins.

If you plan to make personalized wallets what’s with anonymity and security of the participants in the network?
Do you have any ideas to make wallets created anonymous or have them on paper or something similar save for the future?

Pretty sure he meant until the ROI for the lvl 2 coin, not the lvl 1 coin
Trying to make an ROI using lvl 1 coins is borderline retarded

edit: ninjad

[BeeFer310]

The anonymity is a courtesy to users. By personalized I did not mean have their name attached to it. I simply meant they will have a username/password that they create the first time they run the wallet. Once logged in they will see their specific amount of Level 1 coins which I hand placed depending on their funding amount.

ok, thanks.
What’s with the security? If everyone is having on wallet then there will be a time when someone has a lot of money within this. In BTC or other cryptos you can save something of your coins on a paper wallet or cold storage or you can split it in several wallets to secure your money from data loss or cybercrime. Is there anything possible like this with this one-per-person-wallets?

[Level Coin]

The anonymity is a courtesy to users. By personalized I did not mean have their name attached to it. I simply meant they will have a username/password that they create the first time they run the wallet. Once logged in they will see their specific amount of Level 1 coins which I hand placed depending on their funding amount.

ok, thanks.
What’s with the security? If everyone is having on wallet then there will be a time when someone has a lot of money within this. In BTC or other cryptos you can save something of your coins on a paper wallet or cold storage or you can split it in several wallets to secure your money from data loss or cybercrime. Is there anything possible like this with this one-per-person-wallets?

Level 1 and 2 coins have diminishing returns that are attached to the wallets. If you transfer these coins into a new wallet, then these diminishing returns are reset. Which is why I am personally handing out wallets one by one (for now, until I get a reliable automated system to do it properly). You can create multiple copies of this wallet. This wallet is far more secure than most wallets available, including BTC. Should someone steal your wallet, to access it they would need to input the username and password that you created upon startup the first time. As long as you had a backup somewhere and your passcode is difficult to crack, your coins will be safe. On the other hand, if someone got their hands on your BTC wallet, kiss that money goodbye. You could probably created hundreds of copies of your wallet and upload them all over the internet and your coins will still likely be intact. Thieves will have to crack both the username and password, and since these are encrypted on the wallet, its nigh impossible. You are more likely to get your e-mail account hacked into because hackers will already have the user name.

[colin012]

Interesting concept. Not sure if I trust you though. You have a very low trust rating.

[LeoC]

Interesting concept. Not sure if I trust you though. You have a very low trust rating.

Dude, click on his trust. He has ONE guy who instatagged him the moment he created this thread without any proof, simply because he created a "new account" lol.
The trust system on these forums is stupid as hell, a few individuals hold power over everyone and they will tag you for no reason if you look at them the wrong way.

[GreXX]

I just wanted to add a few additional questions. How long after release do you expect the exchange to be completed? Will it be a BTC/LTC/USD exchange? Is it already in production?

Also, will there be a quick reference stat on the website or exchange that lists the current number of L1 and L2 coins in circulation? It would obviously help valuation if this were readily available. I'm finding it really hard to come to a possible valuation or guess on market cap based on numbers i'm running.

If the initial numbers on this thread are close to the final numbers and we give a very generous estimate of the initial funding, we are looking at 40 BTC and 100 LTC. Like I said, generous compared to the current amount pledged. This would equate to

40 btc X 150,000 L1 Coins = 6 Million L1 coins.

100 ltc X 4275 L1 Coins = 427,500 L1 coins.

This would result in 6,427,500 L1 coins in the initial funding round. This obviously does not include any future Kickstarter campaign or additional funding.

IF there is a last minute mad rush and the initial funding is even double this amount, that is still only 12,855,000 L1 coins. By recent launch standards such as DOGE, MOON, and TIPS, this is an extremely low amount of coins in circulation.

On top of that, let's assume 40% of the initial offering are burned by long term investors in the currency for L2 coins.

This would create 5142000 / 1000 or 5142 L2 coins. That would then leave 7,713,000 L1 coins in circulation. The number may end up being a lot higher as far as the burn goes considering there will be no exchange at launch (as far as we know).

Just looking at these numbers and how many coins will be generated each week and burned, I have no idea how to determine a possible valuation or market cap on this coin. I imagine this will be very hard to gauge without up to the minute accurate numbers on L1 and L2 coins in circulation. Even then, it seems like it would be hard to comprehend a valuation. Say someone buys 5000 or 100,000 L1 coins on the exchange and burns them all. How does this impact the overall market cap and valuation of the coin? Do we see constant swings in price? Or does it just trend upward for several months until we get to an averaged consistent fluctuation and burn / earn ratio?

[Level Coin]

I just wanted to add a few additional questions. How long after release do you expect the exchange to be completed? Will it be a BTC/LTC/USD exchange? Is it already in production?

Also, will there be a quick reference stat on the website or exchange that lists the current number of L1 and L2 coins in circulation? It would obviously help valuation if this were readily available. I'm finding it really hard to come to a possible valuation or guess on market cap based on numbers i'm running.

If the initial numbers on this thread are close to the final numbers and we give a very generous estimate of the initial funding, we are looking at 40 BTC and 100 LTC. Like I said, generous compared to the current amount pledged. This would equate to

40 btc X 150,000 L1 Coins = 6 Million L1 coins.

100 ltc X 4275 L1 Coins = 427,500 L1 coins.

This would result in 6,427,500 L1 coins in the initial funding round. This obviously does not include any future Kickstarter campaign or additional funding.

IF there is a last minute mad rush and the initial funding is even double this amount, that is still only 12,855,000 L1 coins. By recent launch standards such as DOGE, MOON, and TIPS, this is an extremely low amount of coins in circulation.

On top of that, let's assume 40% of the initial offering are burned by long term investors in the currency for L2 coins.

This would create 5142000 / 1000 or 5142 L2 coins. That would then leave 7,713,000 L1 coins in circulation. The number may end up being a lot higher as far as the burn goes considering there will be no exchange at launch (as far as we know).

Just looking at these numbers and how many coins will be generated each week and burned, I have no idea how to determine a possible valuation or market cap on this coin. I imagine this will be very hard to gauge without up to the minute accurate numbers on L1 and L2 coins in circulation. Even then, it seems like it would be hard to comprehend a valuation. Say someone buys 5000 or 100,000 L1 coins on the exchange and burns them all. How does this impact the overall market cap and valuation of the coin? Do we see constant swings in price? Or does it just trend upward for several months until we get to an averaged consistent fluctuation and burn / earn ratio?

The exchange will be worked on post release, only a basic foundation is laid out at the moment.
There is no cap on the coins, and I agree they will likely be hard to come by in the first couple of years, which is why I continuously let people know that founders will receive a distinct advantage.
Market valuation will be based entirely on level 1 coins since these are the only marketable resource. If someone commits a burn, the market cap drops.
This is a good thing as it will keep the market cap from ballooning. The lower the market cap, the higher the chance for profit.
As for the rest, there really is no telling what the market will do. The likely event is that there will be an uptrend in either large spikes or in a zig zag motion.
People will be able to forego the burning process and buy and sell solely level 1 coins, just like any other currency, if they so choose.
The point of this coin was to create a niche for every type of personality, while at the same time making it profitable for all of them.

This gives me the idea of implement a top 50 holders list onto the website showing only addresses, with the ability to sort it by LV1 owned, LV2 owned, Total LV1/hour

[northranger79510]

I am really on the fence about investing......-__-Levelcoin seems so genuine about development of his coin but so many unanswered/dodged questions about the existence of coin/developer.

[GreXX]

Level Coin,

I noticed that you are planning a 2 week beta period for founders after the initial funding phase. How will the initial funds be generated? I'm just wondering how you would be generating funds for a Kickstarter campaign once the blockchain is created. I'm not the most well versed on the intricacies of the blockchains, but if it is possible to generate new L1 currency for those who pledge on the Kickstarter, would it be possible to implement a system for the founders wherein they could increase their initial investment up to the 1 BTC cap during the 2 week beta period?

For instance, I pledge 2 ltc now and become a founder. The beta starts and I feel very confident in the coin, can I during the beta pledge more money prior to the end of the beta? The 1 btc cap could still be a good cutoff for initial investors. Maybe offer additional buy-ins at only 1.25x the Kickstarter values or even just offer them at 1x as we would still be getting a head start on the market.

Just a thought / suggestion.

[LeoC]

I am really on the fence about investing......-__-Levelcoin seems so genuine about development of his coin but so many unanswered/dodged questions about the existence of coin/developer.

Don't worry bro, you got two days left to make a choice lol.
I've heard him talk over Skype and I got three things out of it.
One, he's old. Two, he's very smart. Three, he sounds genuinely excited about his ideas.
Maybe you can speak to him if he ever gets back online.

[Level Coin]

Level Coin,

I noticed that you are planning a 2 week beta period for founders after the initial funding phase. How will the initial funds be generated? I'm just wondering how you would be generating funds for a Kickstarter campaign once the blockchain is created. I'm not the most well versed on the intricacies of the blockchains, but if it is possible to generate new L1 currency for those who pledge on the Kickstarter, would it be possible to implement a system for the founders wherein they could increase their initial investment up to the 1 BTC cap during the 2 week beta period?

For instance, I pledge 2 ltc now and become a founder. The beta starts and I feel very confident in the coin, can I during the beta pledge more money prior to the end of the beta? The 1 btc cap could still be a good cutoff for initial investors. Maybe offer additional buy-ins at only 1.25x the Kickstarter values or even just offer them at 1x as we would still be getting a head start on the market.

Just a thought / suggestion.

The founder rates are set in stone. 1.5x for pre-beta, and 1.0 post-beta. It would be unfair to change it this late into the project. The initial funds will be generated on the genesis block once I have tallied how much Level 1 coin each person has purchased. The Kickstarter will have 3 reward tiers. 100 slots for $100 USD each, 50 slots for $500 USD and 10 slots for $1,000 USD. The level 1 required to fill exactly the entire Kickstarter total will also be generated on the genesis block. Should there be any leftover Level 1 coins due to the reward slots not being filled up, these coins will be used for giveaways, bounties, and generally will be given back to the community. The whole process can be monitored via the blockchain, I will not be keeping any of these coins. There is still time to buy into the 1.5x pre-beta rate.

[Snard]

GUI is being completed faster than I imagined. It is now in the cards for release.

Can you provide us a quick work-in-progress screenshot of the gui please.

[GreXX]

Level Coin,

I noticed that you are planning a 2 week beta period for founders after the initial funding phase. How will the initial funds be generated? I'm just wondering how you would be generating funds for a Kickstarter campaign once the blockchain is created. I'm not the most well versed on the intricacies of the blockchains, but if it is possible to generate new L1 currency for those who pledge on the Kickstarter, would it be possible to implement a system for the founders wherein they could increase their initial investment up to the 1 BTC cap during the 2 week beta period?

For instance, I pledge 2 ltc now and become a founder. The beta starts and I feel very confident in the coin, can I during the beta pledge more money prior to the end of the beta? The 1 btc cap could still be a good cutoff for initial investors. Maybe offer additional buy-ins at only 1.25x the Kickstarter values or even just offer them at 1x as we would still be getting a head start on the market.

Just a thought / suggestion.

The founder rates are set in stone. 1.5x for pre-beta, and 1.0 post-beta. It would be unfair to change it this late into the project. The initial funds will be generated on the genesis block once I have tallied how much Level 1 coin each person has purchased. The Kickstarter will have 3 reward tiers. 100 slots for $100 USD each, 50 slots for $500 USD and 10 slots for $1,000 USD. The level 1 required to fill exactly the entire Kickstarter total will also be generated on the genesis block. Should there be any leftover Level 1 coins due to the reward slots not being filled up, these coins will be used for giveaways, bounties, and generally will be given back to the community. The whole process can be monitored via the blockchain, I will not be keeping any of these coins. There is still time to buy into the 1.5x pre-beta rate.

Can you tell us how much will be rewarded per level for the Kickstarter campaign? For instance how many level 1 coins for each $100, $500, and $1,000 pledge?

[northranger79510]

LevelCoin, will you be releasing the software on Feb1st as well as the coins?