[ANN] Catcoin - 0.9.1.1 - Old thread. Locked. Please use 0.9.2 thread.

[SlimePuppy]

Pfft stuff Gravity Well, I found a better solution.

<snip>

So this is the level of conversation we are having right now?

Kuroman - you are the one that appears to be having a hearing problem.  

It is not helpful when you blame others for things you are doing.  Skillface posted a bloody cat picture - you're the one having the religious crisis.  Knock it off!  Third notice, mate...

[serje]

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that KGW was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.


Disclaimer:  This is my money, not CATs that belong in any way to development or that have been donated by anyone for any reason.

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that the Kimoto Gravity Well (KGW) was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.

Anyone?

Is this what you are looking for?

List of various Kimoto Gravity Well configurations used.
<snip>

Sorry, no - unless any of these have 10 minute or longer blocks.

Thank you though as you found more than I did.  Please post a CAT address - I'll pay 20 for the list.

Andy

Here it is
 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B

Thanks a lot!

[kuroman]

Pfft stuff Gravity Well, I found a better solution.

<snip>

So this is the level of conversation we are having right now?

Kuroman - you are the one that appears to be having a hearing problem.  

It is not helpful when you blame others for things you are doing.  Skillface posted a bloody cat picture - you're the one having the religious crisis.  Knock it off!  Third notice, mate...

So this is your factual argument(s)? this is the demonstration you have, the numbers? the math? ressorting to insults and also do I hear some threatening in your words? third notice what? go ahead and show us what are you going to do.

[SlimePuppy]

No you are not. your acts =/= that picture poeple are that naif really, not even once you've considered KGW as a legitimate solution and discussed it properly, all I saw here, #catcoin-dev #catcoin-code ##catcoin whatever is one line SMA nothing else and reserver/concerners denials of KGW! and skillface proposed double SMA but it ended at that and fell free to prove me wrong!

Enough Kuroman.  Now you are simply lying.

I have been in #catcoin-dev nearly 24/7 and the LAST THING HAPPENING is anyone fighting over their pet algo!  We have right now as I type this one dev coding a full process control system.  I'm coding a double SMA.  Etblvu1 is working on others - including a 5 tail SMA idea he had.

I told you over and over and over that your frakking KGW suggestion IS one of the options being evaluated.  I've also told you over and over that if you keep shoving it in my face I'm going to burn the damn paper and tell you to take a hike.  stop the lies, stop the FUD, stop the personal attacks or we'll bring in moderators.  Please go somewhere else, drink some tea, do some deep breathing, and LET US WORK.

[kuroman]

No you are not. your acts =/= that picture poeple are that naif really, not even once you've considered KGW as a legitimate solution and discussed it properly, all I saw here, #catcoin-dev #catcoin-code ##catcoin whatever is one line SMA nothing else and reserver/concerners denials of KGW! and skillface proposed double SMA but it ended at that and fell free to prove me wrong!

Enough Kuroman.  Now you are simply lying.

I have been in #catcoin-dev nearly 24/7 and the LAST THING HAPPENING is anyone fighting over their pet algo!  We have right now as I type this one dev coding a full process control system.  I'm coding a double SMA.  Etblvu1 is working on others - including a 5 tail SMA idea he had.

I told you over and over and over that your frakking KGW suggestion IS one of the options being evaluated.  I've also told you over and over that if you keep shoving it in my face I'm going to burn the damn paper and tell you to take a hike.  stop the lies, stop the FUD, stop the personal attacks or we'll bring in moderators.  Please go somewhere else, drink some tea, do some deep breathing, and LET US WORK.

Lying ? I am on #catcoin-dev 24/7 (not nearly but 24/7! I keep it on even when I'm away so I don't miss a thing!) and I can post the chat logs + screen shots want me to do so? (so there is no room to say I lied. So are you going to call me a liar aswell now even if I provide the definitive prove than I am not the one lyng here ?

And what about sticking to the point and bringing some decent arguments against the proposed solutions you know the one that are outside your SMA solution. and how about counter aguing what I said before?

[SlimePuppy]

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that KGW was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.


Disclaimer:  This is my money, not CATs that belong in any way to development or that have been donated by anyone for any reason.

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that the Kimoto Gravity Well (KGW) was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.

Anyone?

Is this what you are looking for?

List of various Kimoto Gravity Well configurations used.
<snip>

Sorry, no - unless any of these have 10 minute or longer blocks.

Thank you though as you found more than I did.  Please post a CAT address - I'll pay 20 for the list.

Andy

Here it is
 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B

Thanks a lot!

20 CATs on the way, serje - many thanks!

Andy

[serje]

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that KGW was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.


Disclaimer:  This is my money, not CATs that belong in any way to development or that have been donated by anyone for any reason.

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that the Kimoto Gravity Well (KGW) was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.

Anyone?

Is this what you are looking for?

List of various Kimoto Gravity Well configurations used.
<snip>

Sorry, no - unless any of these have 10 minute or longer blocks.

Thank you though as you found more than I did.  Please post a CAT address - I'll pay 20 for the list.

Andy

Here it is
 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B

Thanks a lot!

20 CATs on the way, serje - many thanks!

Andy

I've got them!
Date: 2/6/2014 00:30
From: unknown
To: 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B (own address)
Credit: 20.00 CAT
Net amount: +20.00 CAT
Transaction ID: a8b2f2a5b1c95ab1a699890f2b8bfe000d9aea80979a905d1d9c7f1d59055502

[SlimePuppy]

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that KGW was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.


Disclaimer:  This is my money, not CATs that belong in any way to development or that have been donated by anyone for any reason.

50 CAT bounty for the first post that shows that the Kimoto Gravity Well (KGW) was or is used successfully in a coin with a 10 minute or longer block time.

Anyone?

Is this what you are looking for?

List of various Kimoto Gravity Well configurations used.
<snip>

Sorry, no - unless any of these have 10 minute or longer blocks.

Thank you though as you found more than I did.  Please post a CAT address - I'll pay 20 for the list.

Andy

Here it is
 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B

Thanks a lot!

20 CATs on the way, serje - many thanks!

Andy

I've got them!
Date: 2/6/2014 00:30
From: unknown
To: 9n2UVMCqbCYcMtQyqA7sba8i4cxXW1575B (own address)
Credit: 20.00 CAT
Net amount: +20.00 CAT
Transaction ID: a8b2f2a5b1c95ab1a699890f2b8bfe000d9aea80979a905d1d9c7f1d59055502

Glad you got them - thanks again.

[Nullu]

FYI, I'm pretty sure I was one of the very first to propose KGW in the original thread. I was proposing it some time before the second fork.

All of this technical data is great, but it feels like the joy's been sucked out of the room. Catcoin was fun when it started. Bring that back, and I'm on board.

[SlimePuppy]

No you are not. your acts =/= that picture poeple are that naif really, not even once you've considered KGW as a legitimate solution and discussed it properly, all I saw here, #catcoin-dev #catcoin-code ##catcoin whatever is one line SMA nothing else and reserver/concerners denials of KGW! and skillface proposed double SMA but it ended at that and fell free to prove me wrong!

Enough Kuroman.  Now you are simply lying.

I have been in #catcoin-dev nearly 24/7 and the LAST THING HAPPENING is anyone fighting over their pet algo!  We have right now as I type this one dev coding a full process control system.  I'm coding a double SMA.  Etblvu1 is working on others - including a 5 tail SMA idea he had.

I told you over and over and over that your frakking KGW suggestion IS one of the options being evaluated.  I've also told you over and over that if you keep shoving it in my face I'm going to burn the damn paper and tell you to take a hike.  stop the lies, stop the FUD, stop the personal attacks or we'll bring in moderators.  Please go somewhere else, drink some tea, do some deep breathing, and LET US WORK.

Lying ? I am #catcoin-dev 24/7 and I post the chat log + screen shots (so there is no room to say I lied. So are you going to call me a liar aswell now even if I provide the definitive prove than I am not the one lieing here ?

And what about sticking to the point and bringing some decent arguments against the proposed solutions you know the one that are outside your SMA solution.

As I said, I have never seen you in #catcoin-dev.  If you are in fact in the channel, then you are hiding behind another handle and you are not participating there.

As for your argument request, I have already told you - TWICE!  That we are working through a process.  We don't have data yet for all the solutions - we're working them as quickly as we have bodies working on them.  Here's a suggestion, instead of running your mouth here, maybe YOU could be providing testnet data for YOUR proposal the same way others are working on theirs?

I don't have any more time to waste with you, Kuroman.  I have to get back to work.  I don't have day-care skills, sorry for my shortcomings.

Andy

[kuroman]

No you are not. your acts =/= that picture poeple are that naif really, not even once you've considered KGW as a legitimate solution and discussed it properly, all I saw here, #catcoin-dev #catcoin-code ##catcoin whatever is one line SMA nothing else and reserver/concerners denials of KGW! and skillface proposed double SMA but it ended at that and fell free to prove me wrong!

Enough Kuroman.  Now you are simply lying.

I have been in #catcoin-dev nearly 24/7 and the LAST THING HAPPENING is anyone fighting over their pet algo!  We have right now as I type this one dev coding a full process control system.  I'm coding a double SMA.  Etblvu1 is working on others - including a 5 tail SMA idea he had.

I told you over and over and over that your frakking KGW suggestion IS one of the options being evaluated.  I've also told you over and over that if you keep shoving it in my face I'm going to burn the damn paper and tell you to take a hike.  stop the lies, stop the FUD, stop the personal attacks or we'll bring in moderators.  Please go somewhere else, drink some tea, do some deep breathing, and LET US WORK.

Lying ? I am #catcoin-dev 24/7 and I post the chat log + screen shots (so there is no room to say I lied. So are you going to call me a liar aswell now even if I provide the definitive prove than I am not the one lieing here ?

And what about sticking to the point and bringing some decent arguments against the proposed solutions you know the one that are outside your SMA solution.

As I said, I have never seen you in #catcoin-dev.  If you are in fact in the channel, then you are hiding behind another handle and you are not participating there.

As for your argument request, I have already told you - TWICE!  That we are working through a process.  We don't have data yet for all the solutions - we're working them as quickly as we have bodies working on them.  Here's a suggestion, instead of running your mouth here, maybe YOU could be providing testnet data for YOUR proposal the same way others are working on theirs?

I don't have any more time to waste with you, Kuroman.  I have to get back to work.  I don't have day-care skills, sorry for my shortcomings.

Andy

I am hiding under another handle and I'm not participating to any of the conversations and I said this before and a couple of times and I stated my reasons and One of this reasons is being demonstrated right now!, people moves easly from a respect based conversation based on arguments facts and numbers to insults and threats once they are out of arguments, also if I recall correctly I was called a liar just a few poste before what happened to that? And if you see me rising my ton a bit it is because I am well aware of the current situation and I'll leave it at that.

FYI, I'm pretty sure I was one of the very first to propose KGW in the original thread. I was proposing it some time before the second fork.

All of this technical data is great, but it feels like the joy's been sucked out of the room. Catcoin was fun when it started. Bring that back, and I'm on board.

Exactly, and I think you were the first person to propose it If I remember correctly.

[Nullu]

Maybe I was the first to propose it. Anyway, I either way I wish my proposal was given more serious consideration at the time. There are interesting ideas coming out of Catcoin, but they are new and untested ideas, and every fork is skinning this Cat until eventually there's going to be nothing left.

This has no longer become a thread about Catcoin. It's a technical debate about difficulty readjustments. As interesting as that may be, this isn't the kind of thing that attracts new hash to the network. The price is dropping because interest is dropping. The biggest flaw in the coin is that it's just trying to do too much. It has a great name, and it still fetches a good price, all things considered.

KGW, and just move on. I know people have put a lot of hard work into this, and I would love to see it used in a new, different project, but this instability is extremely bad for Catcoin. I used to be a huge supporter of it, but I can hardly bring myself to read these debates anymore.

[SlimePuppy]

Community - this sucks - I agree 100%.

Unfortunately, the fear/uncertainty/doubt posts are spinning faster than I can squash them.  This is a current snap-shot of development work being done right now and list of folks performing that work.  If I missed anyone, please add to the list, or let me know and I'll update this.

Blaksmith (professional programmer/control systems expert/pool operator) is working on variations of his commercial control systems code and feeding it live data.  He's also working with folks from two other pools to better stabilize the pool network during our fast block periods.

I'm working on two variations of 2-tail SMA with damping and a limit.

etblvu1 is modeling a number of SMA options, including his 5-tail system and the gravity well.

Zerodrama is working through our code and working out ways to integrate proposed solutions into our codebase so we can move options to the testnets.  (That's when we'll have pro/con data for the community...)  Unfortunately, while some think solutions can just 'drop into' our code, this is not the case.  Sorry about that.

Maverick's getting married.  

Jonhhy_non and the rest of the marketing team are expanding CAT awareness and finding more opportunities for CAT - like this:
http://petscoin.com/home.html

SOME of this work is happening in the #catcoin-dev channel.  Some is happening in another channel, via email, and via 1-1 conversations on and off IRC.


Anyone that says we're not making good progress, or that thinks there are any 'solution wars' happening is just plain incorrect.  Period.

Back to work...

[Nullu]

I can certainly see development is in full swing, and I wouldn't in any way wish to deter people from continuing that. My only point is, it has felt like for some time now that Cat is in maintenance mode. Fear, uncertainty and doubt is to be expected, and I would stress that I do still have a stake in Catcoin, so I do still have faith in it. I'm concerned for all the right reasons.

[SlimePuppy]

I can certainly see development is in full swing, and I wouldn't in any way wish to deter people from continuing that. My only point is, it has felt like for some time now that Cat is in maintenance mode. Fear, uncertainty and doubt is to be expected, and I would stress that I do still have a stake in Catcoin, so I do still have faith in it. I'm concerned for all the right reasons.

Nullu - that's the point I'm trying to make here but I'm just plain getting run over.  We simply cannot 'just' implement any idea - whether a brand new one or one that works for other coins - because we are not a 30 second coin or a 6 minute coin (we need to test and confirm), and because it's more complex than just dropping in a block of code and pressing the 'compile' button.

Keep in mind - I keep saying it but it's just as true today as it was three days ago - the dev rolled-out CAT and then left.  We started having problems within days of release.  The first fork was rushed to keep cat alive.  The second fork came in conjunction with forming a new dev team, building testnets, creating the ability to compile all the wallets we need, finding, coding and testing options, and STILL we didn't have enough time to more than a partial fix.  This is the first code release with a Mac wallet!  Hell, none of us were involved in the original release - when Hozer identified himself as a 'code archaeologist' he wasn't kidding!  We're having to reinvent EVERYTHING here!  I'm working 14 hour days on CAT - others are as well, while juggling jobs, kids, and getting married.  

Bloody hell everyone - CAT's still alive and has been getting better and better from the start.  Take a bitch-break, let us work, and know that your pet suggestion WILL get a proper vetting and you and the community WILL get a full view of results.

Thanks in advance.

[kalus]

Kalus, I was with you until the end.  There have been exactly TWO forks.  Please do not join the FUD bandwagon...

Incorrect.

there was one fork, then coinium forked the coin a second time during the relaunch with a 51%, which is what necessitated a new wallet.

What you call the second fork is the third fork.  look at the wallet versions.  

what we are proposing here is the 4th fork.  this is what is shaking the confidence of the investors:  the fork happy coin, and the bickering development team.

note:  i'm being charitable and not even counting the first "caturday" fork, conducted unilaterally before the second and third fork were even attempted.

Fork makes cat big and strong.

again, don't rush into yet another fork.  this is not the way to solve the problem.  as stated since BEFORE the first fork was attempted, the problem has always been the artificially high price of catcoin.  we will not be able to maintain this value no matter what algorithm we choose. 

[kuroman]

I can certainly see development is in full swing, and I wouldn't in any way wish to deter people from continuing that. My only point is, it has felt like for some time now that Cat is in maintenance mode. Fear, uncertainty and doubt is to be expected, and I would stress that I do still have a stake in Catcoin, so I do still have faith in it. I'm concerned for all the right reasons.

Nullu - that's the point I'm trying to make here but I'm just plain getting run over.  We simply cannot 'just' implement any idea - whether a brand new one or one that works for other coins - because we are not a 30 second coin or a 6 minute coin (we need to test and confirm), and because it's more complex than just dropping in a block of code and pressing the 'compile' button.

Keep in mind - I keep saying it but it's just as true today as it was three days ago - the dev rolled-out CAT and then left.  We started having problems within days of release.  The first fork was rushed to keep cat alive.  The second fork came in conjunction with forming a new dev team, building testnets, creating the ability to compile all the wallets we need, finding, coding and testing options, and STILL we didn't have enough time to more than a partial fix.  This is the first code release with a Mac wallet!  Hell, none of us were involved in the original release - when Hozer identified himself as a 'code archaeologist' he wasn't kidding!  We're having to reinvent EVERYTHING here!  I'm working 14 hour days on CAT - others are as well, while juggling jobs, kids, and getting married.  

Bloody hell everyone - CAT's still alive and has been getting better and better from the start.  Take a bitch-break, let us work, and know that your pet suggestion WILL get a proper vetting and you and the community WILL get a full view of results.

Thanks in advance.

Bitch-break......pet solution
if only you've bothered to read some of other people replies instead of having wrong assumptions (reading doesn't take much......)

-Why are you (and others who are supporting KGW) so obstinate about KGW?
No I'm not obstinate about it because I want this solution implemented over other solutions no matter what, this is totally wrong! I've posted and kept posting alternative possible solutions, but since these solutions and any other proposed solution are just a plain theory and not faced to all the real world variables we don't know for sure that they will work and how much they'll break before fixing something (aka look at current solution that was supposed to work and was tested on the testnet ( this is not to disregard the test net, and Thanks to the person who invested in a VPS for it) and had been simulated over and over again which as explained above not enough to simulate real world conditions) this is the opposite of KGW, KGW is implemented in real coins and it works! this is why I believe it's the solution to solve the current critical situation (urgent) and this solution will give us the opportunity to work out our own solution with no stress and time constraint, and this is what I'm obstinated about, it's to have a solid plan and proceed in steady steps as I've said before rather than just rushing another fix which might just make matter even worse than they are

the rest of your reply was also answered in that same post.

[SlimePuppy]

Kalus, I was with you until the end.  There have been exactly TWO forks.  Please do not join the FUD bandwagon...

Incorrect.

there was one fork, then coinium forked the coin a second time during the relaunch with a 51%, which is what necessitated a new wallet.

What you call the second fork is the third fork.  look at the wallet versions.  

what we are proposing here is the 4th fork.  this is what is shaking the confidence of the investors:  the fork happy coin, and the bickering development team.

note:  i'm being charitable and not even counting the first "caturday" fork, conducted unilaterally before the second and third fork were even attempted.

What I'm counting as a fork is a hard-fork implemented by the developers.  I know we have had exactly two of them because it's in the code - we had an initial release, the first fork that reset the diff and the 2nd fork (in the source code as "fork2code").

There WAS NO CATURDAY fork.  That was one of the ways a very, very frustrated Hozer attempted to get the community to ACT to fix a problem!  He simply put code in his GIT - there was no fork!

Here - check the code yourself - the fork blocks are identified in main.cpp starting on line 1112:

https://github.com/CatcoinOfficial/CatcoinRelease

Code:

 int64 nTargetTimespanLocal = 0;
    int64 nIntervalLocal = 0;
    int forkBlock = 20290 - 1;
    int fork2Block = 21346;
    if(fTestNet){
        forkBlock = -1;
	fork2Block = 36;

The release started with block 0 (nIntervalLocal = 0).  The first fork happened at 20290, and last week's fork 2 was at 21346.

Yes, I am aware the from day 1 there were pool errors and temporary 51% miscues.  Three pool operators have found a problem in the way their pools are configured that limited connections and they have changed their settings to keep that from happening in future.  That's the point of Blaksmith's work that I outlined in my dev team update up a few posts.

A new wallet is required every time the code changes.  I am aware of only three wallets - the release (missing a windows DLL file and catcoin.conf), a wallet update with the same code but with the windows DLL properly linked) (NOT A FORK!)(V0.8.7.0), then the block 20290 wallet release (V0.8.8.0), then the block 21346  wallet release that I was a part of (V0.8.9.0)

[madoka]

again, don't rush into yet another fork.  this is not the way to solve the problem.  as stated since BEFORE the first fork was attempted, the problem has always been the artificially high price of catcoin.  we will not be able to maintain this value no matter what algorithm we choose. 

you know if that encourage investors 

[SlimePuppy]