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Author Topic: [ANN] TopCoin [TOP] ★ Crypto Learning Center coming soon! ★ Practical toolset!  (Read 195459 times)
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amachiavellian
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February 08, 2014, 01:26:11 AM
 #1121


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




I am strapped in tight for the ride! The rest of y'all are just pansies. Sit tight, should be interesting to see which way this goes.

I'm with you, only have the 1.2m I mined.... but I'm going to hold them... worst case scenario I lose the potential $30 I could make right now... best case=top goes to $0.01 and I make $12k .... I'm willing to gamble $30 if the payoff is 400/1 or better  Cool

You never know! And that's the value in this experiment.
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February 08, 2014, 01:35:07 AM
 #1122


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




I am strapped in tight for the ride! The rest of y'all are just pansies. Sit tight, should be interesting to see which way this goes.

I'm with you, only have the 1.2m I mined.... but I'm going to hold them... worst case scenario I lose the potential $30 I could make right now... best case=top goes to $0.01 and I make $12k .... I'm willing to gamble $30 if the payoff is 400/1 or better  Cool

You never know! And that's the value in this experiment.

My point exactly, I've only got about 12 hours worth of mining invested into TOP, so if it crashes I'll be out $0.60 in power costs, $30 in potential lost trades at 4 satoshi and 12 hours worth of time I could have been mining something else at a $5 or so profit... so I'll be out $35.60 ... whoop-dee-fucking-doo! Big loss!!!  Roll Eyes ... I already made that much back off UTC  Cool

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February 08, 2014, 01:44:46 AM
 #1123

Come on guys. Let's just don't give up hope yet. This coin will rise, don't spread all the FUD to keep it down. No doubt that this coin has a chance to die in a few months time, but now it's a great chance to make profit from this! why sell low? keep it high people =)


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AxiosAmnesia
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February 08, 2014, 01:49:00 AM
 #1124

Come on guys. Let's just don't give up hope yet. This coin will rise, don't spread all the FUD to keep it down. No doubt that this coin has a chance to die in a few months time, but now it's a great chance to make profit from this! why sell low? keep it high people =)

My point exactly. Smiley
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February 08, 2014, 02:00:56 AM
 #1125

Come on guys. Let's just don't give up hope yet. This coin will rise, don't spread all the FUD to keep it down. No doubt that this coin has a chance to die in a few months time, but now it's a great chance to make profit from this! why sell low? keep it high people =)

My point exactly. Smiley

Glad to find people with a sound mind.

Who doesn't like profit??? I mean like TIPS and MOON. we all know those coins are shit. But those two coins made me 3btc from 0.4btc. Last month i had around 20mil TIPS, and I sold it for 2 satoshi LTC coz it has been dropping from 16 satoshi. And the dev also bailed on that coin. But it shot up to more than 100satoshi last week! U KNOW HOW MUCH PROFIT I LOST???  50x profit! If anyone is saying that there are just too many coins out there now and bitcoin is the only one that rewards early adopters, well you're wrong. This coin rewards early adopters and we're the earliest.

It's your choice to sell for a slight loss now or hold and earn 50x profit. It's like a lottery ticket and the odds are much much better than lottery!
Come on guys! think!


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February 08, 2014, 02:22:15 AM
 #1126

3 satoshi? This is why miners are always miners, they can never get rich. Smiley
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February 08, 2014, 02:58:26 AM
 #1127

Have submitted TOP to coinmarket cap, we should be up on there soon

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February 08, 2014, 03:14:47 AM
 #1128

Have submitted TOP to coinmarket cap, we should be up on there soon

hey topdude i agree with you man.  this is a great experiment.  we will see what will happen when the rewards goes to 1/block.  im willing to hold out and see if we get over 100 sats.  and yes lets keep it like it is and see what happens.  with that said dev has to support the coin same time.  i think the greatest threat to a coin is the dev baling out.  that alone will for sure will kill the coin.  so dev do we have your support of this coin to the end?  hope so.  best of luck to all.
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February 08, 2014, 03:40:01 AM
 #1129


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




A coworker and I was talking about this today, questioning why the quick halving and concluded it was an experiment to see what happens to a coin once 1. The payouts are extremely low after most of the coins have been mined OR 2. The coin is completely mined.  Thanks for confirming our conclusion.  I have only been in the cryptocurrency arena for 3 months, but it is interesting how cryptocurrency is suppose to be this decentralized, anonymous method of performing transactions, etc etc and everyone talks so badly about "fiat currency", BUT in order to "get rich" you must convert your cryptocurrency(for the most part) into a "fiat currency".  Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that logic?

Anywho...I mined for 2 days, got MILLIONs of coins and well, sold some, bought some cheap, sold them again and waiting.  I still have MILLIONs and will wait to see how this plays out.  As an experiment, I think the Dev should stand his ground and let it play out as well.  As he mentioned, it will be a learning lesson for all cryptocurrency.
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February 08, 2014, 03:44:16 AM
 #1130

This is an experiment I am willing to take risks and be part of.
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February 08, 2014, 04:10:11 AM
 #1131

Current Block    16976

304 block left to be halved again.
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February 08, 2014, 04:10:34 AM
 #1132


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




The market cap is vital cause it is a determination of how much supply exists. I already explained this in a previous post, supply is not just how much is produced, it's how much exists in the MARKET. This is not food products or electronics. Coins in existence do not perish. Mined supply going down doesn't matter much if there's already a certain amount in the market.

Look, anyone who's taken econ 101 will know how this plays out without some sort of change (be it different bonus structures or a change in the smallest block awards). If you guys continue to be stubborn that's fine. I'll just sell now and buy back when it goes down to 1-2 satoshi and you guys realize you need to make the changes. See you at the bottom!
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February 08, 2014, 04:25:14 AM
 #1133


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




The market cap is vital cause it is a determination of how much supply exists. I already explained this in a previous post, supply is not just how much is produced, it's how much exists in the MARKET. This is not food products or electronics. Coins in existence do not perish. Mined supply going down doesn't matter much if there's already a certain amount in the market.

Look, anyone who's taken econ 101 will know how this plays out without some sort of change (be it different bonus structures or a change in the smallest block awards). If you guys continue to be stubborn that's fine. I'll just sell now and buy back when it goes down to 1-2 satoshi and you guys realize you need to make the changes. See you at the bottom!

Sorry that I did not see any of your previous post, but what is your stance?  That the coin will die if the Dev does not change the reward from 1 coin per block?  Sell now and buy back @ 1 - 2 sat?  What then? Hold until the price rises?
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February 08, 2014, 04:35:03 AM
 #1134


Man I hate repeating myself. Do the math. I have shown in previous posts if topcoin has the market cap of DOGE at 1 coin per block it can only sustain 800kh/s. Anyone can 51% it if they wanted

Its not really about the market cap in this situation, because the amount of new coins that will be getting minted is almost none.

Also this is a experimental coin to see what really will happen. Most cryptos eventually will be reduced to 1 or less. We are just speeding up the process.

My personal view is that it will be fine, and the price will go up enough to still give a return to those who remain mining.




The market cap is vital cause it is a determination of how much supply exists. I already explained this in a previous post, supply is not just how much is produced, it's how much exists in the MARKET. This is not food products or electronics. Coins in existence do not perish. Mined supply going down doesn't matter much if there's already a certain amount in the market.

Look, anyone who's taken econ 101 will know how this plays out without some sort of change (be it different bonus structures or a change in the smallest block awards). If you guys continue to be stubborn that's fine. I'll just sell now and buy back when it goes down to 1-2 satoshi and you guys realize you need to make the changes. See you at the bottom!

Sorry that I did not see any of your previous post, but what is your stance?  That the coin will die if the Dev does not change the reward from 1 coin per block?  Sell now and buy back @ 1 - 2 sat?  What then? Hold until the price rises?

I'm going to copy paste what I've written and the math I used:

What makes a coin valuable? Supply and demand. How much supply is there already of TOP? Just over 9 billion. How much demand is there for TOP? Not particularly much right now. This isn't food or even electronics. When coins are produced, they generally stay forever. Sure a small amount gets lost from people who lost their wallets etc, but it's not that significant a quantity. Functionally, coins stay forever. What does this mean for TOP? It means that it doesn't particularly matter that it will be really hard to mine more later, there's already so much that the supply is extremely large. In fact, we are already basically at the point that mining barely matters at all. By the next halving, it will be practically pointless to mine without an extreme hash drop.

So why is this unique for TOP? Because it reaches max supply quickly, and effectively stabilizes at that supply. The real question is will demand rise? Because of the stability of supply for TOP, any demand increases will not be diluted by inflation, what you see is effectively what you get in terms of TOP, it's very nature is deflationary if you get in past a certain point. Does price HAVE to rise? Not at all, demand could drop and we could see prices fall to 1 satoshi even or worthless (this will likely happen if hash rate goes too far down, people will have less faith in the security of the coin since 51% attacks will be easier). Could it rise? Sure, if demand rises then prices will go up proportional to demand, since there's no inflationary pressure.

The point is, TOP is designed so that if it gets a lot of hype, prices will rise very quickly. If there is no hype, it will likely die just as quickly because the hash rate will drop below a point where anybody is willing to trust the coin anymore. Effectively, in 1 week we will know what will happen to TOP.

I actually have a huge problem with one of the designs of top. The drop to 1 coin/block makes it so that it's almost guarranteed to die in 2 months time. Lets take a look at what miners expect in a coin to keep mining it:

In general, you are looking at a minimum of $40/day for a 5Mh/S rig. (I'm being conservative, plenty of coins give more than this, but it's what is the reasonable minimum).

So when TOP goes down to 1 coin/block, it generates 1440 coins per day. Lets say we want a network hash of 200Mh/S in order to stay at a level where the coin is still trustworthy (even though that's still quite risky). If that's the case, then 5/200 or 1/40 of 1440 must be worth $40 for people to mine. So each coin will have to be worth $0.9.

Is this possible? No way in hell. That would put the market cap of TOP at 10 Billion USD. Unless top becomes as powerful as bitcoin, it will never reach that price.

Lets look at it from a different angle. What if TOP reaches the market cap of DOGE at $50 million. Then each TOP will be worth roughly 0.45 cents. In this case, all the TOP generated per day at 1 coin/block will be worth about $6.5. That means the network hash IN THE EVENT that TOP gets to be as popular as DOGE, is going to be at most 800Kh/S, which is obviously disasterous.

Both of these point to the same conclusion. In a couple more block halvings, what we will see is that the dev will choose to hard fork the coin to fix this issue. The current system is a death sentence for the coin no matter what happens.

I think this coin can survive and has a chance to do really well (That's why I hold the coin myself). But crypto requires a network to survive and this coin was built to fail if you keep the 1 coin minimum.

I did the math already, to retain a decent number of miners, you have to have rewards be no less than the equivalent of 10,000 coins per block. It can be through bonuses, or transaction fees or whatever. Point is, that's how much would keep enough miners in the game to prevent a 51% attack.
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February 08, 2014, 04:51:09 AM
 #1135

From an economics and longevity standpoint, your math, assumptions and conclusions are respectable.  Unfortunately, I do not believe the Dev(I do not want to speak for him, just my opinion) shares the same thought process, especially to publicly call the coin experimental.  Good, bad or indifferent, that is the case and with the 2 day halving, it will not take long to see how this plays out.  BTW....I could only wish the price hits .45 cent!  I would go to work and tell EVERYONE to fuck off!...lol
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February 08, 2014, 04:57:02 AM
 #1136

From an economics and longevity standpoint, your math, assumptions and conclusions are respectable.  Unfortunately, I do not believe the Dev(I do not want to speak for him, just my opinion) shares the same thought process, especially to publicly call the coin experimental.  Good, bad or indifferent, that is the case and with the 2 day halving, it will not take long to see how this plays out.  BTW....I could only wish the price hits .45 cent!  I would go to work and tell EVERYONE to fuck off!...lol

It's so easy to save this coin though! Two day halving is fine, and you can preserve the experiment. All you have to do is is set the minimum at 10,000 or even 5,000 might be enough.

Look, bitcoin is 21 million max. TOP is 11 billion, it's almost 500 times more coins than bitcoin. Given that BTC is a 10 minute block time, this is like having bitcoin having a block reward of 0.04. What do you think would happen to the hashrate of BTC then and that's the granddaddy of all crypto we're talking.

TOP stands no chance at keeping miners without changes to the structure. I'll buy back when the dev realizes the inevitability of the cold hard math.
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February 08, 2014, 05:00:20 AM
 #1137


So when TOP goes down to 1 coin/block, it generates 1440 coins per day.

30 sec blocks, so It generates 2880 blocks per day. so 24 will be 10 blocks, and 1 will be a 100 bock.

so 2855 1 coin blocks = 2855
+ 24 10 coin blocks = 240
+ 1 x 100 = 100
--------------------
Total per day:3095 + transaction fees. So Lets predict 3200 coins per day


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February 08, 2014, 05:02:31 AM
 #1138


So when TOP goes down to 1 coin/block, it generates 1440 coins per day.

30 sec blocks, so It generates 2880 blocks per day. so 24 will be 10 blocks, and 1 will be a 100 bock.

so 2855 1 coin blocks = 2855
+ 24 10 coin blocks = 240
+ 1 x 100 = 100
--------------------
Total per day:3095 + transaction fees. So Lets predict 3200 coins per day



Yes you are correct, I made an error. So by that math if TOP gets $50 mill market cap  or 0.45 cents per coin, then we can only sustain a hash rate of about 1600KH/s. That is still too low.
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February 08, 2014, 05:06:20 AM
 #1139

I am liking the positive attitudes from some of the posters here. Topcoin has an experimental distribution, and it should be embraced.

I continue to give away my coins to friends and realtives, getting them to spread the word and the coin. It is up to the large holders to ensure the coin receives a fair distribution throughout the user base. And as long as they keep selling low, there will be plenty of people ready to buy up those tops.
atheistftwins
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February 08, 2014, 05:11:19 AM
 #1140

I am liking the positive attitudes from some of the posters here. Topcoin has an experimental distribution, and it should be embraced.

I continue to give away my coins to friends and realtives, getting them to spread the word and the coin. It is up to the large holders to ensure the coin receives a fair distribution throughout the user base. And as long as they keep selling low, there will be plenty of people ready to buy up those tops.

I agree, I think it is a great coin and a wonderful experiment that the crypto community needs to have. But I also think it has a flaw that is quickly predictable and can be easily fixed without changing the essence of the experiment. I do not believe that it dramatically changes the coin to make the minimum block reward higher, it's still very very low compared to the 11 billion that is released initially.
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