[NEM] ---NEM stake complaint, questions etc.---

[patmast3r]

Hello Utopianfuture, I teach Business English to Businessmen/women in Northern Italy. I am a bit shall I say anti-establishment when teaching. I have introduced
my students to cryptocurrencies and the associated benefits. They have become enthusiastic about low-energy cryptos like NXT and NEM.

Obviously we are all dissapointed to be on a refund list because of connected transactions.When the NEM stakeholder opportunity arose, myself,my friend and
8 students and all our partners reserved a stake, 20 in total.

Because they are all very busy people and because of their limited English Language abilities it was much easier for them to open NXT accounts and for me to send some to them so that they could reserve their stakes in NEM. I was paid by them in FIAT euros.

At the time I thought it was ok to do this. We all hope to be taken back off the refund list.

The Others are, nembit8 ,stigodump ,smirnofdrinker ,eddyvce ,numbed ,VKNP60 ,greatlife ,smilingatit ,mindblown ,SLIPSTER14 ,staffer ,welderman48 ,curlyheed65 ,
lazylife2014 ,cheekymonkey12 ,sticktoit ,slavedriver26 ,smoking and falseflag14.

@UP I'll let you handle this. Personally I would suggest giving them the max of 5 stakes and refund the rest.

the MAX of 5 Stakes ? U will kill NEM!!!!!!

I would also like 5 Stakes for my work colleagues bla bla bla.

Hold finally new people who really want NEM!!!! and not those here who want to enrich with NEM UNFAIR!

Now the Refunding list is here and the end of the discussions and start finally working on NEM!

So und zu dir Patmaster da du deutscher bist und ich heute nicht so die Energie habe um auf Englisch zu schreiben, habe gestern einen richtigen Schlag gemacht
Es kann doch wohl nicht wahr sein das hier seit Monaten diese Diskussionen hier geführt werden.
- Sockpuppets
- Wer ist auf der Stakeholderliste und wer nicht
- Selbstbeweihung in aller Form in dem Forum

So jetzt ist endlich seit Monaten die offizielle Stakeholderliste da und dazu auch die Refundingliste und jetzt geht der ganze Kram wieder los, gibt es nichts wichtigeres zu tun? Noch nicht mal ein Coin Symbol ist nach Monaten gefunden... alles dreht sich hier nur um die oben genannten Punkte, es geht nichts voran.
Und jetzt verweise mich nicht auf das Trello Board und Facebook auch da gibts nur immer wieder den gleichen Kram.Von mir aus kann es auch noch Monate dauern aber schließt endlich eine verdammte Sache ab und das ist jetzt dieses hier!!!
Das sind Sockpuppets oberster Güte hier!Schreiben keinen Post haben nur auf die Refunding Liste gewartet und schreiben in der gleichen Sekunde ihre Märchengeschichte!!!!!!!
Und du/ihr wollt den dann noch 5 Stakes geben- als kleine Wiedergutmachung?! Gehts noch....?! Die lachen sich doch kaputt darüber und auf diese ist geschissen!
Raus mit denen und sucht euch welche aus der Warteliste aus, aber auch da aufpassen sondern nur die nehmen die sich VOR dem Fundrasing registriert haben!
Man kann sich auch ein Stake mit 20 Leuten teilen!!!!!!!!!!! Was wollen denn jeder einzelne mit einem Stake ( ach was schreib ich die ganze Geschichte ist ja eh GELOGEN) obwohl die sich einen scheiß um Crypto kümmern. Ja klar brauchen wir neue, aber die würden sich anders geben.
Ich würde mir selbst einen Account machen und diese Ausrede mit wenig Zeit und BLA bLA BLA .... MAN MAN es darf echt nicht wahr sein beginnt endlich diese Leute das Geld zurück zu zahlen und SCHLUSS jetzt, es reicht wirklich!!!!!!!
Diesen Stake hier teile ich mit MEHREREN Leuten das habe ich vor Monaten bei einer Kneipentour mit 3 Leuten so besprochen, die damit aber nix anfangen konnten und das Bier war wichtiger...aber die bekommen es und was die damit machen is Ihre Sache... soll ich jetzt auch auf 3 zusätzliche volle Stakes beschehen oder hätte ich bescheißen sollen wenn man auf so eine Art die ganze Community VERARSCHT!

So schluss jetzt gleich will ich Fußball gucken und beginnt endlich die Arbeit, ich habe meine getan und 3 evtl. UNERFAHRENE Leute zu Crypto gebracht und das obwohl ich das Thema im Freundeskreis nie anspreche aus diversen Gründen!

Ran Ran zahlt die Sockenpuppen aus und beendet das Ding jetzt hier!

I'll still answer in english so everyone can read it.
First off I'm not german you're just one of many that mistaken speaking the language with being from a country but that's just a sidenote

I do understand how things can look somewhat stalled at the moment. However even for NEM there is a "behind the scenes" and there is a lot going on.
Let me address your points one by one:

Yes now the discussion about sockpuppets is coming up again but that was planned. Did you expect everyone on the refundlist would just shut up and live with it ? We are intentionally giving people the opportunity to make their case so we don't weed out the wrong people. I was suggesting to give him 5 stakes because he can't proof they are real and we can't proof they are not. It's a compromise that I'm suggesting but UP doesn't have to go for it. Also remember that we're also the no envy movement so being that pissed about someone suggesting to give 5 stakes isn't exactly our style.

You're right we don't have a logo yet but don't tell me nothing has been finished so far because that's bullshit. This stuff takes time and there are very good reasons why they are not done yet.
For example we don't have a logo yet because not everybody is happy with the slate and we're thinking about getting some more suggestions in. However we wan't to give the designer a directive what we're searching for and we're currently writing that up.

If you're not satisfied with the speed other people are working on a project that you will gain from and have put next to nothing in then please request a refund which is also possible as of now.

Happy eastern !

[Sportfreund1488]

Mein dear friend,

if you give one of the guys here 5 stakes u will see what happens. Don´t make this mistake.

and i will follow the stakeholder list ... and have notice it.

[dasource]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

[Sportfreund1488]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

i like it. so i think also but let´s see i have a eye of this here

[aswritt]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

i like it. so i think also but let´s see i have a eye of this here

+1


is NEM turning into a scam?   For scam it is very nice to have as much stakeholders as possible, even though they are not real individuals. Wow, it is a very good advertisement to say that Nem has 4000 initial stakeholders.

Another point for scam.
Where is the real technical progress? No demo no video?


For scam it is suitable to just collect mass of greedy investors with hype. Hype with childish slogans like "we are no envy movement", hah. That is the alibi of the scam project! The alibi prevents calling the justice against sockpuppets,  you must not call egalitarian NEm because it would be ENVY !!!  ENVY, hah   bsh.

Has NEM created very genius way to get many members to be cheated?
Nem rules seem to atract people of egalitarian. They will get in to nem.
Nem rules seem to allow sockpuppets. They will get in to nem.
Nem rules seem to say "Let the little stakeholders come to me, and not hinder them, for the kingdom of movement belongs to such as these."
All will come. Some require egalitarian. To them it is said: NO ENVY!
They will shut themselves up, because they won't risk their shares. Sockpuppets are silent, they only laugh in their own hideouts.
After all this the nem train just continues until it meets the real rails.

[utopianfuture]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

While NEM fundraising central principle is still the same, there is a certain "legacy" in the initial stage of fundraising as the rules are not lay out clearly enough. I will make sure real accounts with potential contribution in the waiting list will get a share, however even the waiting list also have many sock accounts with exactly 1 post who is no better than friend accounts here.

[cupper5]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

i like it. so i think also but let´s see i have a eye of this here

+1


is NEM turning into a scam?   For scam it is very nice to have as much stakeholders as possible, even though they are not real individuals. Wow, it is a very good advertisement to say that Nem has 4000 initial stakeholders.

Another point for scam.
Where is the real technical progress? No demo no video?


For scam it is suitable to just collect mass of greedy investors with hype. Hype with childish slogans like "we are no envy movement", hah. That is the alibi of the scam project! The alibi prevents calling the justice against sockpuppets,  you must not call egalitarian NEm because it would be ENVY !!!  ENVY, hah   bsh.

Has NEM created very genius way to get many members to be cheated?
Nem rules seem to atract people of egalitarian. They will get in to nem.
Nem rules seem to allow sockpuppets. They will get in to nem.
Nem rules seem to say "Let the little stakeholders come to me, and not hinder them, for the kingdom of movement belongs to such as these."
All will come. Some require egalitarian. To them it is said: NO ENVY!
They will shut themselves up, because they won't risk their shares. Sockpuppets are silent, they only laugh in their own hideouts.
After all this the nem train just continues until it meets the real rails.

There's more BULLSHIT here than on Old McDonalds farm. Where do these guys come from?

[dasource]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

While NEM fundraising central principle is still the same, there is a certain "legacy" in the initial stage of fundraising as the rules are not lay out clearly enough. I will make sure real accounts with potential contribution in the waiting list will get a share, however even the waiting list also have many sock accounts with exactly 1 post who is no better than friend accounts here.

As an idea why do we not exclude anyone who has say under < 5 posts and registered before the waiting list thread? Just an idea.
I certainly do not envy your position since no matter what you do one side or the other is going to be upset.

[Sportfreund1488]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

While NEM fundraising central principle is still the same, there is a certain "legacy" in the initial stage of fundraising as the rules are not lay out clearly enough. I will make sure real accounts with potential contribution in the waiting list will get a share, however even the waiting list also have many sock accounts with exactly 1 post who is no better than friend accounts here.

New Members on the Waiting List must registred the account before the fundraising!
Stop it NOW here and if we are not 3000 where is the problem?
On the Waiting list u are right there are also very very much sockpuppets at this point NEM must close all and begin the work of the future of the Coin.

[cupper5]

My two NEMs worth......

With people on a waiting list, giving multiple stakes to a single person seems to be a recipe for disaster. If these people feel so 'precious' about the stake then let them buy them @ market rate once NEM is live. IMO zero involvement in NEM should = zero stake.

Why not make sure people on waiting list get it first, refund the rest and put the stakes left into the auction and whatever funds are gained use them for marketing of NEM.
This will do more for NEM than 5/10/15/20 stakes for someone who says he/she has bough them for someone.

While NEM fundraising central principle is still the same, there is a certain "legacy" in the initial stage of fundraising as the rules are not lay out clearly enough. I will make sure real accounts with potential contribution in the waiting list will get a share, however even the waiting list also have many sock accounts with exactly 1 post who is no better than friend accounts here.

New Members on the Waiting List must registred the account before the fundraising!
Stop it NOW here and if we are not 3000 where is the problem?
On the Waiting list u are right there are also very very much sockpuppets at this point NEM must close all and begin the work of the future of the Coin.

Lets just stick to the plan eh?     although I was surprised at two things lately.  20 spaces for wrongly accused sockpuppets seems not enough . There could be way more than that and I thought each shareholder would get at least 10% added to his amount if only 3000 s\holders from 4000 spots.

[utopianfuture]

Hello, Just read i need to speak here.
I have a group of 14 friends ( includes their partners and such). We are all on the refunding list as the accounts are connected to mine. I understand you want to limit such accounts down. Could we be limited down to 5 stakes shared between us? I can provide proof of identity for these 5 people. What would be your decision on this case? would that be ok or would something else be more ideal for you?
Thanks

Edit: to be honest, the way things are looking we would even be happy with 3. At least that is something decent to share between us.

Any idea of what your decision would be here? I need to know how much money I need to pay back to them, if we are sharing I need to work out a percentage of refund to each of them (fiat). For the record I did let UP know about this long before audit, so I really would like to know whats happening.

If you do choose to allow us 5 stakes here are 5 of our account names. If you choose to give us less you can pick and choose who you want allow back on the list. Of course you may just say none..
Moloch, Spiritas , Jack skeleton, Leonardos, Asmodeus.

I find it strange that the majority of the shit storming is coming from confirmed stakeholders.

Give me a day or two to process all the refunding requests. I will get back to you soon. Thanks for understanding.

[treviso32]

jesus no wonder the main thread is so nice and friendly... all the bitching is in here! :L i feel like iv walked into the wrong pub on the wrong side of town with the wrong skin color and the wrong clothes... gota get outa here before someone turns on me! :L :L

   lol,   yes, some serious hostility

Ok, I have been reading the comments on our most unfortunate situation.

Firstly,I consider myself VERY active at grass roots level promoting cryptocurrency and precious metals to people at various, but usually
high positions in the Business world here in Veneto on a daily basis.Not every student of mine wanted to pay for NEM stakes but the ones that did
have been talking to friends and relatives about what they are doing. They have been commenting on Bitcointalk although this is all new to
them and their English is limited.

I did not buy stakes for them. They started NXT accounts by themselves and paid me euros when I sent them coins.

If I was trying to obtain stakes all for myself then I'm sure there are a number of ways to do it without being easily noticed.

Whether we get stakes or not we will continue to do what we're doing.Some have already agreed to buy NEM when they become available.

[Jiesen]

Any news about my case ? i could check on my paypal the trans id if you need.

[utopianfuture]

Any news about my case ? i could check on my paypal the trans id if you need.

did you check the official list ? I thought you are in.

[gomei]

Any news about my case ? i could check on my paypal the trans id if you need.

did you check the official list ? I thought you are in.

hi dev,
how about the waiting list?
I can't wait to join in with folks.

[Jiesen]

Any news about my case ? i could check on my paypal the trans id if you need.

did you check the official list ? I thought you are in.

Official list ? can you post the link please i cant find it  in anycase i still see myself in the refund list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdG5HUC1jZWp1SXJYcEVGZjRCU0FJYUE#gid=0 #118 and #228

[CycleSurfer360]

My account was on the on the original stakeholders list from the beginning -- before page 80 on the original thread.  This is an account for a loved-one per UtopianFuture's own rules.  My active account is CycleSurfer while this account is CycleSurfer360.  Was there a mix-up and an accidental deletion?  At the time, there were no issues with getting a second account for those before page 80.  DaFrockBro's post below summarizes what I mean.  If I knew there was controversy with similar account names, I would have easily changed names.  I was being open and honest about this process to match UtopianFuture openness about starting NEM.

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

January 22 quote from Utopianfuture encouraging multiple buy-ins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4661493#msg4661493

1.) Are you going to PM the account passwords to all initial stakeholders? I think it'd be a good idea to compile a list (google docs) of everybody who is interested and paid the fee.

2.) How are you going to prevent multiple buyins?

3.) Make the color of the NEM logo silver/grey to emphasize the silver to gold idea.

1. I have worked out a plan. It should work well. List of stakeholders are coming soon.

2. I won't prevent multiple buy-in. It is impossible to prevent people making two- three accounts and register for them. But it won't matter much as our user bases would

be huge. Furthermore, it takes time to make multiple accounts. It takes time to manage multiple accounts. Later on you would need to provide me passwords on these

accounts. That's a lot of work already and if someone can go through all of that they have shown a lot of interest in NEM and probably deserve their stakes. And at this point,

more accounts means more development fund to NEM. So I don't see the need to prevent multiple buy-in. It is very different from someone putting 10.000 NXT in and buy 10%

stake of NEM. I very much doubt anyone can have more than 5-6 buy-ins. I hope this explanation clears the worry about double buy-in.

3. in progress.

January 28 quote from Utopianfuture stating that address checking would not be applied retroactively:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4806705#msg4806705

Also let's hear other opinions from the community.

It is on page 76 now so we better be quick. My proposition :

• Keep fee as is, or add a fixed amount for every x pages to ensure growth of project

but

• Add rule that promotion elsewhere (FB, Twiter, G+) must be made by an account that has been registered & active since Jan 01 at least

Fee should not change in a radical way, people will be upset
but promoting with original (and older than the project) social media accounts can hinder sockpuppets

I believe, you have to allow new account to ask for a spot, new user is good! but what we need to do is make it harder for sockpuppet to get more share. That will increase fairness, it is impossible to be 100% fair anyway.

We should welcome new users. Just try to figure out how to reduce sochpuppet accounts. I think we should implement sending address check.

Do we still want memes ? any suggestions for "promote NEM" condition changes ? I think we still need some promotional efforts, most people sent in money.

At the least, for now, if you do not want to affect the job you have already done in the past and do want not frustrate people that already paid. Maybe imposing promotion only for new accounts would reduce the futur non desirable account. For now it would be a good way to promote NEM. I believe. Acting reoactively might be difficult to administrate.

There will be no new rule applied retroactively.

January 29 edit of terms in signup thread stating address checking would not be applied retroactively to page 81:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4592223#msg4592223

"How to join after page 80. Two ways

1. Pay a fee to join in
    
    Send 300 NXT to the address      14343293611098709683
    Send 0.03 BTC to the address    1Lk5Paws9T1YpoSeLeZT7ZeSQKW7UNq4TJ

Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "


January 29 Quote from Utopian future establishing the cutoff for address checking as page 80:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4809186#msg4809186

Thanks for all who support NEM. This post is page 80 cut-off. Please check the front page because a counter- sockpuppet measure has been introduced.

" Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "

In addition, meme promotion for stake spot is temporarily stopped. But remember that NEM still love memes.

[patmast3r]

My account was on the on the original stakeholders list from the beginning -- before page 80 on the original thread.  This is an account for a loved-one per UtopianFuture's own rules.  My active account is CycleSurfer while this account is CycleSurfer360.  Was there a mix-up and an accidental deletion?  At the time, there were no issues with getting a second account for those before page 80.  DaFrockBro's post below summarizes what I mean.  If I knew there was controversy with similar account names, I would have easily changed names.  I was being open and honest about this process to match UtopianFuture openness about starting NEM.

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

January 22 quote from Utopianfuture encouraging multiple buy-ins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4661493#msg4661493

1.) Are you going to PM the account passwords to all initial stakeholders? I think it'd be a good idea to compile a list (google docs) of everybody who is interested and paid the fee.

2.) How are you going to prevent multiple buyins?

3.) Make the color of the NEM logo silver/grey to emphasize the silver to gold idea.

1. I have worked out a plan. It should work well. List of stakeholders are coming soon.

2. I won't prevent multiple buy-in. It is impossible to prevent people making two- three accounts and register for them. But it won't matter much as our user bases would

be huge. Furthermore, it takes time to make multiple accounts. It takes time to manage multiple accounts. Later on you would need to provide me passwords on these

accounts. That's a lot of work already and if someone can go through all of that they have shown a lot of interest in NEM and probably deserve their stakes. And at this point,

more accounts means more development fund to NEM. So I don't see the need to prevent multiple buy-in. It is very different from someone putting 10.000 NXT in and buy 10%

stake of NEM. I very much doubt anyone can have more than 5-6 buy-ins. I hope this explanation clears the worry about double buy-in.

3. in progress.

January 28 quote from Utopianfuture stating that address checking would not be applied retroactively:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4806705#msg4806705

Also let's hear other opinions from the community.

It is on page 76 now so we better be quick. My proposition :

• Keep fee as is, or add a fixed amount for every x pages to ensure growth of project

but

• Add rule that promotion elsewhere (FB, Twiter, G+) must be made by an account that has been registered & active since Jan 01 at least

Fee should not change in a radical way, people will be upset
but promoting with original (and older than the project) social media accounts can hinder sockpuppets

I believe, you have to allow new account to ask for a spot, new user is good! but what we need to do is make it harder for sockpuppet to get more share. That will increase fairness, it is impossible to be 100% fair anyway.

We should welcome new users. Just try to figure out how to reduce sochpuppet accounts. I think we should implement sending address check.

Do we still want memes ? any suggestions for "promote NEM" condition changes ? I think we still need some promotional efforts, most people sent in money.

At the least, for now, if you do not want to affect the job you have already done in the past and do want not frustrate people that already paid. Maybe imposing promotion only for new accounts would reduce the futur non desirable account. For now it would be a good way to promote NEM. I believe. Acting reoactively might be difficult to administrate.

There will be no new rule applied retroactively.

January 29 edit of terms in signup thread stating address checking would not be applied retroactively to page 81:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4592223#msg4592223

"How to join after page 80. Two ways

1. Pay a fee to join in
    
    Send 300 NXT to the address      14343293611098709683
    Send 0.03 BTC to the address    1Lk5Paws9T1YpoSeLeZT7ZeSQKW7UNq4TJ

Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "


January 29 Quote from Utopian future establishing the cutoff for address checking as page 80:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4809186#msg4809186

Thanks for all who support NEM. This post is page 80 cut-off. Please check the front page because a counter- sockpuppet measure has been introduced.

" Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "

In addition, meme promotion for stake spot is temporarily stopped. But remember that NEM still love memes.

@UP: you wanna take this ? Seems like you put him on the refundlist.

[mattadc]

-snip-

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

January 22 quote from Utopianfuture encouraging multiple buy-ins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4661493#msg4661493

1.) Are you going to PM the account passwords to all initial stakeholders? I think it'd be a good idea to compile a list (google docs) of everybody who is interested and paid the fee.

2.) How are you going to prevent multiple buyins?

3.) Make the color of the NEM logo silver/grey to emphasize the silver to gold idea.

1. I have worked out a plan. It should work well. List of stakeholders are coming soon.

2. I won't prevent multiple buy-in. It is impossible to prevent people making two- three accounts and register for them. But it won't matter much as our user bases would

be huge. Furthermore, it takes time to make multiple accounts. It takes time to manage multiple accounts. Later on you would need to provide me passwords on these

accounts. That's a lot of work already and if someone can go through all of that they have shown a lot of interest in NEM and probably deserve their stakes. And at this point,

more accounts means more development fund to NEM. So I don't see the need to prevent multiple buy-in. It is very different from someone putting 10.000 NXT in and buy 10%

stake of NEM. I very much doubt anyone can have more than 5-6 buy-ins. I hope this explanation clears the worry about double buy-in.

3. in progress.

-snip-

Looks like there have not been understood English words like "prevent", "impossible", "probably", "doubt" ...

Somehow those have been translated as "encouraging"

[CycleSurfer360]

"Encouraging" multiple buy-ins?  No, UtopianFuture wasn't doing that.  But allowing two, especially for a loved-one account? -- then yes.  This account has been on all the confirmed lists in the past from the beginning up to the one prior to this final one.    

I only reserved two -- one on CycleSurfer for me and one CycleSurfer360 that represents a loved-one account.  But no one can prove I am telling the truth just as no one can prove the likely probability that all humans on pages 1-80 have more than two accounts.  My complaint is getting dinged for being open and honest about the process while others are sitting happy with more than two accounts and NEM stakes.

More importantly, both accounts were on the first 20 pages of the original thread during the Klone NXT movement with posts on Reddit to show for it -- this is when (I believe) UtopianFuture was not worried about multiple accounts but wanted interest.  I hope UtopianFuture considers this.

EDIT:  Here is the link to the document showing both accounts on thread pages 1-9.
NEM ongoing stakeholder list at end of page 85 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdDZ0amZpM00wQXhrR2lJM3pCOGRhNFE#gid=0; huge file 1379 stakeholders at the end of page 85.