Should ANN and services threads be excluded from the merit system ?

[xtraelv]

Should ANN and services threads be excluded from the merit system ?
Or at least excluded from being shown in the displayed statistics.

It is actually sad to see this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=toptopicsat
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=toptopics

The merit system is being used to advertise threads.

I think it is disgusting that a shitcoin ANN thread like deeponion has a higher merit ranking than Bitcoin and me (Hal Finney)

[1715141981]

1715141981

[1715141981]

1715141981

[1715141981]

1715141981

[1715141981]

1715141981

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Holy shit!  I didn't realize this was happening.  I haven't ever looked at that particular merit list, and now that I have, I'd have to say that this probably shouldn't be allowed.  This definitely goes against the spirit of the merit system, and especially Theymos's suggestion that merit should be for "objectively high quality posts" (I'm quoting from memory, forgive me if I got the words wrong, but that's basically what he said).

That's just awful.  I don't quite get why people are meriting ANN threads.  Are these thread-starters getting some sort of kickback from this?  Is it to get the threads on the "most merited threads" list?  Are people just kissing ass?  I wouldn't think that would be the case, since I can't imagine all these people would throw away their merits on ass-kissing.

[xtraelv]

Holy shit!  I didn't realize this was happening.  I haven't ever looked at that particular merit list, and now that I have, I'd have to say that this probably shouldn't be allowed.  This definitely goes against the spirit of the merit system, and especially Theymos's suggestion that merit should be for "objectively high quality posts" (I'm quoting from memory, forgive me if I got the words wrong, but that's basically what he said).

That's just awful.  I don't quite get why people are meriting ANN threads.  Are these thread-starters getting some sort of kickback from this?  Is it to get the threads on the "most merited threads" list?  Are people just kissing ass?  I wouldn't think that would be the case, since I can't imagine all these people would throw away their merits on ass-kissing.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
- Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

I think that regardless of whether it is intentional or just the result of people giving merits as "likes". It is extremely disappointing to seeing ANN threads, exchanges and escrow service threads rising in the ranks of displayed top threads. If it continues to be allowed then it will drown out the non commercial threads actually worth reading.

It will also defeat a large part of the purpose of having the merit system.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It will also defeat a large part of the purpose of having the merit system.

I don't know about that--merits given to ANN threads are at least not being given to shitposters, and that stymies their attempts to rank up, which in turn decreases their shitposting paycheck and also discourages account farming.  That, IMO, is the main thing that merits were meant to combat.

But most of the shit posting is done in ANN threads to bump up the thread so it displays on the first page.

If the shitposting was quarantined to just that area, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it isn't.  The main section here (Bitcoin Discussion) has become nothing but a spam section because of signature campaign shitposters.  What I'm saying is at least those people aren't ranking up.  It would be so much worse if the merit system wasn't around.

[xtraelv]

It will also defeat a large part of the purpose of having the merit system.

I don't know about that--merits given to ANN threads are at least not being given to shitposters, and that stymies their attempts to rank up, which in turn decreases their shitposting paycheck and also discourages account farming.  That, IMO, is the main thing that merits were meant to combat.

But most of the shit posting is done in ANN threads to bump up the thread so it displays on the first page.

Part of the purpose of the merit system is to highlight good posts (which is why they are displayed on the statistics page).

Good non-commercial threads are now harder to find because the ANN threads have taken their rightful spot.

The deep onion ANN thread smerits that they received as a result of the merits received went to shitposters.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1038794





While I am disappointed that ANN threads are dominating the merit rankings - I'm pleasantly surprised that only the deeponion smerits went to shitposters.
The other ANN threads either haven't used their smerits or they were reasonably well distributed.

If the shitposting was quarantined to just that area, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it isn't.  The main section here (Bitcoin Discussion) has become nothing but a spam section because of signature campaign shitposters.  What I'm saying is at least those people aren't ranking up.  It would be so much worse if the merit system wasn't around.

Maybe you are onto something there. A dual merit system.

x amount of merits and posts to have a signature in the bounty and ann threads - those merits and posts have to be obtained in those sections of the forum.
x amount of merits and posts to have a signature in the other forum threads - those merits and posts have to be obtained in those sections of the forum.

People only wanting to participate in bounties and airdrops wouldn't ever need to post in the main forum.

[SFR10]

Should ANN and services threads be excluded from the merit system ?

Yes (IMO). Few users have also merited me on one of my service threads and I'm pretty sure, they meant to like it (not merit it as if it was a high quality post).
- I created a thread that covers that (#6 on the list), previously suggested by Vod.

[xtraelv]

Should ANN and services threads be excluded from the merit system ?

Yes (IMO). Few users have also merited me on one of my service threads and I'm pretty sure, they meant to like it (not merit it as if it was a high quality post).
- I created a thread that covers that (#6 on the list), previously suggested by Vod.

Yeah - it would be nice to be able to like some posts that don't necessarily deserve merit. Also smerit runs out. Infinite likes would be quite nice.

[athanz88]

Shit posting in the ANN threads is not made by the OP right? Then it does not have anything to do with the ANN of the projects, unless the project stated that they will pay money if someone do the post on the ANN thread. With or without merit system, people will always spam in ANN thread, that is the problem.

I agree with you that ANN, or other project or services thread should not be the top merited thread int this forum, they may get merits but not up to this level i believe. It is kinda sad, but the solution to this problem is kinda problematic because we are talking about controlling and directing people how to use merit (at least more) properly than giving it to thread mentioned above.

[Welsh]

Generally, I don't really endorse sending merits to announcement threads, however users can do what ever they like with the sMerit they have earned. Eventually, most of them will run out of sMerit, and this will be happening on a minuscule level. I doubt any merit source will give their merits to the average Joe announcement thread.

Shit posting in the ANN threads is not made by the OP right? Then it does not have anything to do with the ANN of the projects, unless the project stated that they will pay money if someone do the post on the ANN thread. With or without merit system, people will always spam in ANN thread, that is the problem.

Not entirely true some announcement threads bump their threads with alternate accounts when they aren't using a bumping service. A while back I found some particularly high ranked members engaging in a conversation with themselves in order to bump the thread. OP was also involved. It's not always so obvious to determine if OP is involved, but they certainly do use different methods to bump their threads.

[hugeblack]

Short answer No. Source  -------> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3443147.msg35998226#msg35998226

It's not inherently bad for someone to merit announcement threads since you might legitimately view them as particularly interesting and noteworthy. But some of those do look like a conflict of interest...

I consider getting merits on my services threads a kind of thanks from the given and an assessment of the service for everyone who wants to try it.
Perhaps the real question is whether the merit source can send merits to ANN threads?
Which has been answered here ----> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3443147.msg35889040#msg35889040

[Jet Cash]

I've stated several times that I believe that merits should not be awarded for posts in the ANN sections, In fact I believe that all TwitBook and bounty posting should not be awarded with any merit, and should not be counted for activity.

[Harlot]

Holy shit!  I didn't realize this was happening.  I haven't ever looked at that particular merit list, and now that I have, I'd have to say that this probably shouldn't be allowed.  This definitely goes against the spirit of the merit system, and especially Theymos's suggestion that merit should be for "objectively high quality posts" (I'm quoting from memory, forgive me if I got the words wrong, but that's basically what he said).

That's just awful.  I don't quite get why people are meriting ANN threads.  Are these thread-starters getting some sort of kickback from this?  Is it to get the threads on the "most merited threads" list?  Are people just kissing ass?  I wouldn't think that would be the case, since I can't imagine all these people would throw away their merits on ass-kissing.

I guess a lot of things are always happening outside of the forum. If bump bots in the forum are being sold elsewhere then most likely merits are also being sold and their means of communication is outside the forum. This is an obvious abuse as the ones giving merits usually in the first place don't give merits at normal post, then suddenly they will give high merits on ANN threads that don't actually give any kind of conrtibution to the forum. They are just here promoting their business without caring how theybare abusing the forum.

[TheBeardedBaby]

Now first thing to do is to keep an eye on those accounts receiving all those merits what they gonna do with it.

I wish to believe that they will distribute the merit to the most valuable bounty/signature participants, as it should be, but this is just too good to be true.

[xtraelv]

I agree with you that ANN, or other project or services thread should not be the top merited thread int this forum, they may get merits but not up to this level i believe. It is kinda sad, but the solution to this problem is kinda problematic because we are talking about controlling and directing people how to use merit (at least more) properly than giving it to thread mentioned above.

I wasn't suggesting directing people to not merit ANN threads or services but just turning off the functionality so ANN threads are not capable of receiving merit. Symilar to how signatures are turned off in the serious discussion forum. Merit for posts within the ANN thread should be fine as long as the post deserves it.

Alternatively just removing ANN threads from being displayed on the top merited list or a displayed on a separate list for merited advertisements.

I also don't have as much of a problem with ANN threads receiving merits than with how it is displayed on the list and the volume of merit given to what is essentially a free advertisement - my main issue is with it being displayed on top merited topics the list. It is a form of free advertising that will get abused. ANN threads and Services initial posts are essentially an advertisement.  When people find an advertisement more worthy of merit than an extremely inspiring post by one of the apostles of bitcoin - I have an issue with that. It is disrespectful.

[vphasitha01]

I've stated several times that I believe that merits should not be awarded for posts in the ANN sections, In fact I believe that all TwitBook and bounty posting should not be awarded with any merit, and should not be counted for activity.

I have already suggested that admins should not counted the posts in ANN threads as activity.

I think this is a very serious issue that is bothering almost everyone on this forum.

This is very serious issue only for Bounty Hunters and Spam Masters not for members who actually knows the value of Bitcointalk

the earlier the forum becomes easy place to learn.

"the earlier the forum becomes easy place to learn spam, gets rank up and earning money without contribute to the forum"

I don't agree with the OP regarding the post count thing, if we remove the merit requirements for ranking up will ultimately clogged the forum by shitposters with their bots and bounty reports. So they pumps the posts and rank up quickly to earn money. Earning money through bitcointalk is not the problem,but when it becomes the sole purpose without contribution or sharing anything to the forum is the problem.

I would like to share my thoughts regarding the post count thing. If someone think number of posts proportional to the learning potential, believe me it's not. If anyone really wants to learn, the best think I can say is Read Before Ask. I have an another suggestion, if we could make an amendment to the activity thing by introducing new rule that posts which are posting on the ANN threads doesn't count as activity or few number(mods can decide) of posts taken as one activity, there will be decrease of new alt creation which creates only for Bounties and ultimately less spam in the forum. So what you guys are thinking?

[DdmrDdmr]

The Ann Altcoins is the most merited section of all considering all the Merit System History (23.519 sMerits, followed by Russian Local Board with 21.473 sMerits and then Meta with 16.001).
If we narrow that down to the month of June 2018, Russian Local Board Leads with 1.959 sMerits, followed by Ann Altcoins with 1.775 sMerits and then Meta with 1.505 sMerits.
Specifically, the Ann Altcoins sMerit goes to 495 posts on 296 different threads.

The top merited Ann Altcoin threads with 20 sMerits or above during June 2018 are:

Code:

Merit	MeritThread	page_title	url
50	67	( [ANN] ) (PUNZ) - Making Crypto Great Again - Zerocoin Being Implemented	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1699708.msg40884406#msg40884406
1	67	( [ANN] ) (PUNZ) - Making Crypto Great Again - Zerocoin Being Implemented	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1699708.msg40889002#msg40889002
16	67	( [ANN] ) (PUNZ) - Making Crypto Great Again - Zerocoin Being Implemented	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1699708.msg40892511#msg40892511
10	60	[ICO] ShowMeBiz - GLOBAL VIRTUAL EXPO [Earn passive income & Become a co-owner]®	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4148382.msg38209188#msg38209188
5	60	[ICO] ShowMeBiz - GLOBAL VIRTUAL EXPO [Earn passive income & Become a co-owner]®	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4148382.msg38705695#msg38705695
15	60	[ICO] ShowMeBiz - GLOBAL VIRTUAL EXPO [Earn passive income & Become a co-owner]®	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4148382.msg39395325#msg39395325
30	60	[ICO] ShowMeBiz - GLOBAL VIRTUAL EXPO [Earn passive income & Become a co-owner]®	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4148382.msg39861027#msg39861027
50	50	[ANN][ICO]SKYFchain is the first B2R blockchain based operating platform	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2799527.msg39175145#msg39175145
20	50	[ANN][ICO] 💚💚💚World 1st AI Enabled Platform - MEFY - AIRDROP 💚💚	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4266620.msg39348248#msg39348248
30	50	[ANN][ICO] 💚💚💚World 1st AI Enabled Platform - MEFY - AIRDROP 💚💚	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4266620.msg40734924#msg40734924
2	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg40531822#msg40531822
10	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg40604109#msg40604109
2	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg40612823#msg40612823
5	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg40893683#msg40893683
2	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg40967664#msg40967664
7	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg41091826#msg41091826
4	32	[I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624935.msg41100030#msg41100030
1	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg16156239#msg16156239
1	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg38377018#msg38377018
1	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg39012427#msg39012427
1	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg39604201#msg39604201
2	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40141738#msg40141738
2	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40182151#msg40182151
17	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826
5	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40698998#msg40698998
1	31	BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40789670#msg40789670
31	31	[ANN][CROC] Official CrocodileCash Update Board [Strength in Basking]	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2326144.msg23645056#msg23645056
30	30	[ANN][ICO] KYC.legal - Blockchain identity verification	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2370568.msg34236062#msg34236062
5	29	[ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | FUNDING THE FUTURE WITH THE FUTURE OF CURRENCY	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494708.msg39178241#msg39178241
24	29	[ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | FUNDING THE FUTURE WITH THE FUTURE OF CURRENCY	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494708.msg39742336#msg39742336
23	28	[ANN] INSN Coin 🔷 POW/POS/Master Nodes/InstantTXs 🔷 18.4m Coins 🔷	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709461.msg36872545#msg36872545
5	28	[ANN] INSN Coin 🔷 POW/POS/Master Nodes/InstantTXs 🔷 18.4m Coins 🔷	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709461.msg39893446#msg39893446
20	25	[ANN] Viacoin (VIA) - Safe | Segwit | Lightning Network | Auxpow | Fast	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1840789.msg40177971#msg40177971
5	25	[ANN] Viacoin (VIA) - Safe | Segwit | Lightning Network | Auxpow | Fast	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1840789.msg40630772#msg40630772
17	24	✅ [ANN] LIGHTPAYCOIN LPC ⭐ MASTERNODES ✅ POS ⭐ MNO AND CRYPTOBRIDGE LISTED ✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4349090.msg38889872#msg38889872
1	24	✅ [ANN] LIGHTPAYCOIN LPC ⭐ MASTERNODES ✅ POS ⭐ MNO AND CRYPTOBRIDGE LISTED ✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4349090.msg39721142#msg39721142
3	24	✅ [ANN] LIGHTPAYCOIN LPC ⭐ MASTERNODES ✅ POS ⭐ MNO AND CRYPTOBRIDGE LISTED ✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4349090.msg40650686#msg40650686
3	24	✅ [ANN] LIGHTPAYCOIN LPC ⭐ MASTERNODES ✅ POS ⭐ MNO AND CRYPTOBRIDGE LISTED ✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4349090.msg40997947#msg40997947
20	23	🚀 [ANN] ColossusXT (COLX) Private | Instant | Sustainable | Mandatory Update v5	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2141880.msg21423587#msg21423587
3	23	🚀 [ANN] ColossusXT (COLX) Private | Instant | Sustainable | Mandatory Update v5	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2141880.msg40336552#msg40336552
2	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg39413253#msg39413253
5	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg39458791#msg39458791
10	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg40071076#msg40071076
4	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg40229878#msg40229878
1	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg40231055#msg40231055
1	23	⚡ [ANN] DeepOnion ONION ⚡⚡ SAFEGUARD YOUR FILES with DeepOnion DeepVault ⚡⚡	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2683530.msg40356338#msg40356338
5	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg39238948#msg39238948
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg39517283#msg39517283
2	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg39592511#msg39592511
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg39707725#msg39707725
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40283464#msg40283464
2	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40381079#msg40381079
2	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40506977#msg40506977
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40507451#msg40507451
2	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40625737#msg40625737
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg40975592#msg40975592
4	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg41051154#msg41051154
1	23	[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg41119651#msg41119651
20	21	👽 [ANN][BIS]Bismuth - New Language, Free DAPPs, Cryptopia, HEAT	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1896497.msg39025811#msg39025811
1	21	👽 [ANN][BIS]Bismuth - New Language, Free DAPPs, Cryptopia, HEAT	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1896497.msg39593473#msg39593473
16	21	[ANN]⚡⚡🔐[PRiVCY]🔐⚡⚡[3rd Airdrop - Starts 23th June]✅[PoW/POS]✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4503790.msg40546622#msg40546622
2	21	[ANN]⚡⚡🔐[PRiVCY]🔐⚡⚡[3rd Airdrop - Starts 23th June]✅[PoW/POS]✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4503790.msg40596974#msg40596974
1	21	[ANN]⚡⚡🔐[PRiVCY]🔐⚡⚡[3rd Airdrop - Starts 23th June]✅[PoW/POS]✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4503790.msg40610275#msg40610275
1	21	[ANN]⚡⚡🔐[PRiVCY]🔐⚡⚡[3rd Airdrop - Starts 23th June]✅[PoW/POS]✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4503790.msg40891964#msg40891964
1	21	[ANN]⚡⚡🔐[PRiVCY]🔐⚡⚡[3rd Airdrop - Starts 23th June]✅[PoW/POS]✅	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4503790.msg40934364#msg40934364
20	20	[XLTCG] Version 2.0 switch to DPOS/POW Hybrid since 12.04.2016 | X13 | Multipool	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1195867.msg17937821#msg17937821
20	20	BUBBLE || HOLY $H+T! ! ! MickGhee can DApp -- p2p exchange 20% complete.~demo	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1348538.msg39678091#msg39678091
10	20	[ANN]Spectrecoin[XSPEC] TOR+OBFS4, Ring Sig, Stealth!	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2103301.msg39314848#msg39314848
10	20	[ANN]Spectrecoin[XSPEC] TOR+OBFS4, Ring Sig, Stealth!	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2103301.msg39960117#msg39960117
3	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39169705#msg39169705
1	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39388194#msg39388194
3	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39448086#msg39448086
2	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39616106#msg39616106
2	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39756799#msg39756799
4	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg39916643#msg39916643
3	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg40002008#msg40002008
2	20	[ANN][BWK] BULWARK | NO ICO | Masternodes | Accelerated PoW | Seesaw PoS/MN	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2499481.msg40405103#msg40405103
20	20	[ANN] CargoX.io - Ocean Freight Logistics on Blockchain - Pilot in Q2 2018!	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2619373.msg40018389#msg40018389
10	20	[PRE-ANN][MANO] Masternode Foundation [Pre-Sale][Bounties]	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4328146.msg40606343#msg40606343
10	20	[PRE-ANN][MANO] Masternode Foundation [Pre-Sale][Bounties]	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4328146.msg40611994#msg40611994

Now if the features announced have replicas, and moved on to a discussion on features usage or technical ground, some posts in the thread could have some interest and be awarded merit with no issue. It’s when unorthodox abuse takes place hidden amongst these often mega-threads that one wonders if that is the reason why Ann Altcoin is the most awarded section/subsection of all (second place in June).

For example, from the list above we’ve got:
16 sMerits for:

YES
LET"S MAKE PUNZ"S GREAT AGAIN

WOw you guys still have wallet cool. Lets get this going!

The 60 sMerits on ‘[ICO] ShowMeBiz - GLOBAL VIRTUAL EXPO [Earn passive income & Become a co-owner]®’ have already been tagged by actmyname for merit abuse last week.
The 50 sMerits on ‘[ANN][ICO]SKYFchain is the first B2R blockchain based operating platform’ were also tagged by actmyname for merit abuse last week.

The ‘[ANN][ICO] 💚💚💚World 1st AI Enabled Platform - MEFY - AIRDROP 💚💚’ thread awards 20 sMerits for “Any idea when this moves to the next period. We are in prime movers and heading for brain gain.” (I think the thread is locked, since I cannot quote the post).
Another 30 have been awarded for “Personally, I see that the team is doing a great job, giving us new opportunities in the health system”.

And that is just grabbing the first few from the above list. All in all, it seems as if merit abuse seems to hide in the forest of large Ann threads, and it may be adding to quite a bit more than we think. Perhaps it is proportionally larger than in other threads, thus boosting its position on rankings.

[TheHas]

Am I the only one that is more surprised about the amount of merit going to threads talking about merit? Seems a bit circular.

I'd rather see merit going to threads about coins. That's kind of the point of the forum.

[athanz88]

Am I the only one that is more surprised about the amount of merit going to threads talking about merit? Seems a bit circular.

I'd rather see merit going to threads about coins. That's kind of the point of the forum.

Well, merit is for a worthy and meritorious post, it does not have to bound to a particular theme, whether it is about merit or about coins. The problem is,the OP of ANN or other services thread got a lot of merits from a post that does not contain anything valuable rather than describing their project or services which is not meritorious at all. Above posts already mentioned too that there are merits given for rather a low quality post which is not the best use of merit.

The point of the forum is to be a best place to talk about bitcoin and cryptocurrency, not about advertising some services with false use of one of forum's system.

[LoyceV]

This definitely goes against the spirit of the merit system, and especially Theymos's suggestion that merit should be for "objectively high quality posts"

It does go against everything Merit stands for, but I don't think you can prevent that. One way or another, Merit will also be some sort of a popularity contest. Assuming equal quality, a more popular thread is read more often than a less popular thread, and thus more people can Merit it. When it comes to ANN threads, the large number of users outweigh many better threads with less users. Unfortunatley, "free money" threads are much more popular than interesting technical discussions.

I don't quite get why people are meriting ANN threads.

Any bag holder has a financial incentive to lure other people in.

Are these thread-starters getting some sort of kickback from this?  Is it to get the threads on the "most merited threads" list?  Are people just kissing ass?

I think the more interesting question is: will this be sustainable?
Theymos already said Merit trading will eventually be a very small and expensive part of the Merit economy. The spammers will run out of their airdropped sMerit, and won't earn new ones. So let's take Deeponion as an example, because I only know that name from being a signature campaign paying many spammers.
The top 10 Merit awards came from:
dreamhouse (30)
ermaxinc (27)
monocolor (25)
cryptodv (20)
doothewop (16)
seddik (15)
Morchid (12)
vinc3 (11)
mo (10)
fisheater (10)
Total: 176 Merit.
In the past 120 days, only cryptodv, Morchid and fisheater have received Merit on their own. Their total is 10 Merit (1, 2 and 7 each). That means that those 10 users combined, would have at most 5 new sMerit to use.

To summarize: They gave away 176 Merit to this thread since introduction, and earned 5 new sMerit in the past 120 days.
My conclusion: this phenomenon will die out once they run out of sMerit.

[seoincorporation]

I guess a lot of things are always happening outside of the forum. If bump bots in the forum are being sold elsewhere then most likely merits are also being sold and their means of communication is outside the forum. This is an obvious abuse as the ones giving merits usually in the first place don't give merits at normal post, then suddenly they will give high merits on ANN threads that don't actually give any kind of conrtibution to the forum. They are just here promoting their business without caring how theybare abusing the forum.

Yes, in fact, digging about the forum in other platform's I've come to realize that the merits are being sold by an average amount of $5 in some telegram groups (mostly Russians) called: "Bitcointalk Accounts". Also, they are selling accounts from Newbies in $5 to Full Member, in $150... This is amazing how important to own a High-rank account is getting "outside", seems pretty awesome to me. Besides, most of the accounts "for sale" are, probably, hacked ones (the high-rank ones are probably being robbed in front of our own eyes), or maybe they are just scam. Whatever it is, when something has a value, it will end in the black market....

To summarize: They gave away 176 Merit to this thread since introduction, and earned 5 new sMerit in the past 120 days.
My conclusion: this phenomenon will die out once they run out of sMerit.

I hope you're right. But, given the hacking-selling accounts and the merit "store" it seems like a long-time tumor.
Nevertheless, I would like to be mistaken about this.