[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[pedrog]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

[1714733545]

1714733545

[Mutated btc]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

maybe he means the currently mined coins, and/or pay over time.
if not , then sad.

[chsados]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

maybe he means the currently mined coins, and/or pay over time.
if not , then sad.

Why would this be a good thing?  This is exactly what he is going to do (use the mined coin) - except they are not his to use for his fuck ups!  The only reason he has those boards is because of US, the investors!

[arousedrhino]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

maybe he means the currently mined coins, and/or pay over time.
if not , then sad.

Why would this be a good thing?  This is exactly what he is going to do (use the mined coin) - except they are not his to use for his fuck ups!  The only reason he has those boards is because of US, the investors!

The only reason the MSD is involved is because of US the investors. He may be incompetent but we invested in a super risky area using an unregulated currency and then when things went badly think the government will help. The whole point of BTC is to not involve the government in it, its unregulated. You knew the risks stop whining that the company is going bankrupt. The investors are just speeding up the process by involving the MSD.

All investments have risk. This was a super risky one and as such its failure should be no surprise.

[Jasun7211]

So it looked like this barge was turning the corner the last month or so and wack we get the State hitting us with this news.....that we all knew was coming.  Now that we have a farm going, and are selling product, I think it would be a shame to not see this project to some meaningful and natural end or succuess.  This is a very critical time in this company's formation, and were set to take advantage of some really bad players mistakes.   I just hope the State levys a suspended penality with criteria that Ken needs to meet in a specific duration decided by the State...or even better, ACTM shareholders that will cure the charges.  This is highly unlikely, but this peroid now is what is going to determine the company's future long term. Now that it looked like Ken was getting up after stumbling out of the gate...like most in this field, we get hit with this....understandably. ..and just hope that Mr. Kander has all and the most recent facts on the scenerio.  

[Jasun7211]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

maybe he means the currently mined coins, and/or pay over time.
if not , then sad.

Why would this be a good thing?  This is exactly what he is going to do (use the mined coin) - except they are not his to use for his fuck ups!  The only reason he has those boards is because of US, the investors!

The only reason the MSD is involved is because of US the investors. He may be incompetent but we invested in a super risky area using an unregulated currency and then when things went badly think the government will help. The whole point of BTC is to not involve the government in it, its unregulated. You knew the risks stop whining that the company is going bankrupt. The investors are just speeding up the process by involving the MSD.

All investments have risk. This was a super risky one and as such its failure should be no surprise.

I just finished a letter to Mr. Kander saying this.   Basically saying that anyone investing in bitcoin a year ago was alread a risk loving person....if you ininvested in a btc stock you were a totaly crazied lunatic...and we knew exactly what we were doing and which risks were involved...generally because we are smarter than your average lipper average driven mutual fund fixed account grandma.  Ken really couldn't mislead us too much as many of us arnt that easily led.....that's why we are here to begin with.  Also we had a few wallet addresses and boots on the ground to verify.  Using the blockchain is probably the most secure and non misleading tool the Earth has to date for clarifying things. I hope one day the authorities will learn and understand the true power and nature of the blockchain, and trust it to do it's thing.   Ironic but true.  We shall see...

[Phildo]

So it looked like this barge was turning the corner the last month or so and wack we get the State hitting us with this news.....that we all knew was coming.  Now that we have a farm going, and are selling product, I think it would be a shame to not see this project to some meaningful and natural end or succuess.  This is a very critical time in this company's formation, and were set to take advantage of some really bad players mistakes.   I just hope the State levys a suspended penality with criteria that Ken needs to meet in a specific duration decided by the State...or even better, ACTM shareholders that will cure the charges.  This is highly unlikely, but this peroid now is what is going to determine the company's future long term. Now that it looked like Ken was getting up after stumbling out of the gate...like most in this field, we get hit with this....understandably. ..and just hope that Mr. Kander has all and the most recent facts on the scenerio.  

You can't know/think/claim that the ship was turning around without knowing how much Ken gave hashfast.

You need to ask whether or not holding bitcoins was a better decision than every other decision to spend money/coins as this went along. We know that giving Ken was silly compared to holding, but what about the decisions Ken made as you went along. It's very likely that paying hashfast right before the price went up for miners that won't ROI and that you can't sell (again due to poor decisons) was an even bigger mistake.

By not getting financials and looking at the silver lining to the clouds without noticing that the cloud was a tornado you have let Ken waste your coins.

[Jasun7211]

So it looked like this barge was turning the corner the last month or so and wack we get the State hitting us with this news.....that we all knew was coming.  Now that we have a farm going, and are selling product, I think it would be a shame to not see this project to some meaningful and natural end or succuess.  This is a very critical time in this company's formation, and were set to take advantage of some really bad players mistakes.   I just hope the State levys a suspended penality with criteria that Ken needs to meet in a specific duration decided by the State...or even better, ACTM shareholders that will cure the charges.  This is highly unlikely, but this peroid now is what is going to determine the company's future long term. Now that it looked like Ken was getting up after stumbling out of the gate...like most in this field, we get hit with this....understandably. ..and just hope that Mr. Kander has all and the most recent facts on the scenerio.  

You can't know/think/claim that the ship was turning around without knowing how much Ken gave hashfast.

You need to ask whether or not holding bitcoins was a better decision than every other decision to spend money/coins as this went along. We know that giving Ken was silly compared to holding, but what about the decisions Ken made as you went along. It's very likely that paying hashfast right before the price went up for miners that won't ROI and that you can't sell (again due to poor decisons) was an even bigger mistake.

By not getting financials and looking at the silver lining to the clouds without noticing that the cloud was a tornado you have let Ken waste your coins.

That is just looking at one aspect of it. There are so many moving variables, both in and out of Ken's control that it is imposible to calculate some meaningful outcome We have a pretty good mining farm going, and were selling product.  Thats progress imo, and this news will just hinder that growth too.  I just don't want any what if's in the future.  The State helps clear any what ifs. Lol, but that's not how I wanted clarity.

[arousedrhino]

Ken,

-Will the company continue?

-Why is the company in a good position?

Yes, this is just a bump in the road.

is dividend on the way?

you said those who tendered to actm during bitfunder closure notice, will get the dividends when listed somewhere else, those who didn't tender will lose out on dividend.
i remember this

so pay dividend, and then list those remaining shares?

No dividend is going to be paid!

Active Mining will have to use non-investor funds to pay a fine of up to $100,000 this will have to come from
the mining account only.  The balance in the mining account will used to fund operations.

maybe he means the currently mined coins, and/or pay over time.
if not , then sad.

Why would this be a good thing?  This is exactly what he is going to do (use the mined coin) - except they are not his to use for his fuck ups!  The only reason he has those boards is because of US, the investors!

The only reason the MSD is involved is because of US the investors. He may be incompetent but we invested in a super risky area using an unregulated currency and then when things went badly think the government will help. The whole point of BTC is to not involve the government in it, its unregulated. You knew the risks stop whining that the company is going bankrupt. The investors are just speeding up the process by involving the MSD.

All investments have risk. This was a super risky one and as such its failure should be no surprise.

I just finished a letter to Mr. Kander saying this.   Basically saying that anyone investing in bitcoin a year ago was alread a risk loving person....if you ininvested in a btc stock you were a totaly crazied lunatic...and we knew exactly what we were doing and which risks were involved...generally because we are smarter than your average lipper average driven mutual fund fixed account grandma.  Ken really couldn't mislead us too much as many of us arnt that easily led.....that's why we are here to begin with.  Also we had a few wallet addresses and boots on the ground to verify.  Using the blockchain is probably the most secure and non misleading tool the Earth has to date for clarifying things. I hope one day the authorities will learn and understand the true power and nature of the blockchain, and trust it to do it's thing.   Ironic but true.  We shall see...

Thank you. Its even more ironic that they expect the government to help out when the invested using a currency not backed by the government in an insanely risky investment environment. Really makes you wonder what these people think about BTC. Do they think the government should back it?

If BTC was now worth $1 would they still want the BTC back or the USD refund the MSD is forcing Ken to offer?
You bet they would want the refund, they only want whats best for their bottom line.

You can't have non regulation and regulation at the same time, thats not how it works. Any company has a risk at failing. I just wish we would give Ken even with his shortcoming a chance to succeed or completely fail. He has made many many many mistakes but in the end this MSD investigation makes it more difficult for his to potentially succeed. A 1 year investment is very short in terms of real world investments.

Startups fail all the time due to incompetent management and those shareholders take the loss. Its a risk and when investing you accept that risk.

[bigdude]

I would like to Ask Ken one question.

Ken, how are you feeling about how you have performed for your investors so far?

[Phildo]

So it looked like this barge was turning the corner the last month or so and wack we get the State hitting us with this news.....that we all knew was coming.  Now that we have a farm going, and are selling product, I think it would be a shame to not see this project to some meaningful and natural end or succuess.  This is a very critical time in this company's formation, and were set to take advantage of some really bad players mistakes.   I just hope the State levys a suspended penality with criteria that Ken needs to meet in a specific duration decided by the State...or even better, ACTM shareholders that will cure the charges.  This is highly unlikely, but this peroid now is what is going to determine the company's future long term. Now that it looked like Ken was getting up after stumbling out of the gate...like most in this field, we get hit with this....understandably. ..and just hope that Mr. Kander has all and the most recent facts on the scenerio.  

You can't know/think/claim that the ship was turning around without knowing how much Ken gave hashfast.

You need to ask whether or not holding bitcoins was a better decision than every other decision to spend money/coins as this went along. We know that giving Ken was silly compared to holding, but what about the decisions Ken made as you went along. It's very likely that paying hashfast right before the price went up for miners that won't ROI and that you can't sell (again due to poor decisons) was an even bigger mistake.

By not getting financials and looking at the silver lining to the clouds without noticing that the cloud was a tornado you have let Ken waste your coins.

That is just looking at one aspect of it. There are so many moving variables, both in and out of Ken's control that it is imposible to calculate some meaningful outcome We have a pretty good mining farm going, and were selling product.  Thats progress imo, and this news will just hinder that growth too.  I just don't want any what if's in the future.  The State helps clear any what ifs. Lol, but that's not how I wanted clarity.

It might be backwards progress. If the mining farm will never create more bitcoins than you could have bought the day you bought the cards it is backwards progress. if you don't turn a profit selling the cards it's backwards progress. I don't understand how you can be happy about the mining farm without knowing how much was spent on it.

I would think that by now bitcoin investors would have learned that spending money doesn't mean great news.

[arousedrhino]

So it looked like this barge was turning the corner the last month or so and wack we get the State hitting us with this news.....that we all knew was coming.  Now that we have a farm going, and are selling product, I think it would be a shame to not see this project to some meaningful and natural end or succuess.  This is a very critical time in this company's formation, and were set to take advantage of some really bad players mistakes.   I just hope the State levys a suspended penality with criteria that Ken needs to meet in a specific duration decided by the State...or even better, ACTM shareholders that will cure the charges.  This is highly unlikely, but this peroid now is what is going to determine the company's future long term. Now that it looked like Ken was getting up after stumbling out of the gate...like most in this field, we get hit with this....understandably. ..and just hope that Mr. Kander has all and the most recent facts on the scenerio.  

You can't know/think/claim that the ship was turning around without knowing how much Ken gave hashfast.

You need to ask whether or not holding bitcoins was a better decision than every other decision to spend money/coins as this went along. We know that giving Ken was silly compared to holding, but what about the decisions Ken made as you went along. It's very likely that paying hashfast right before the price went up for miners that won't ROI and that you can't sell (again due to poor decisons) was an even bigger mistake.

By not getting financials and looking at the silver lining to the clouds without noticing that the cloud was a tornado you have let Ken waste your coins.

That is just looking at one aspect of it. There are so many moving variables, both in and out of Ken's control that it is imposible to calculate some meaningful outcome We have a pretty good mining farm going, and were selling product.  Thats progress imo, and this news will just hinder that growth too.  I just don't want any what if's in the future.  The State helps clear any what ifs. Lol, but that's not how I wanted clarity.

It might be backwards progress. If the mining farm will never create more bitcoins than you could have bought the day you bought the cards it is backwards progress. if you don't turn a profit selling the cards it's backwards progress. I don't understand how you can be happy about the mining farm without knowing how much was spent on it.

I would think that by now bitcoin investors would have learned that spending money doesn't mean great news.

The reason to be happy is its the first tangible progress Ken actually made towards making this company a success. We finally have a mining farm and shares are tradable again. Thats more progress made  in the last couple months  than in the entire history of the company. Its not amazing progress but progress nonetheless.

Yes it might not have been the profitable position but we don't know without financials. I would like to see financials as well but given the MSD investigation I can see why Ken would withhold that information in order to provide them less information for the investigation. We may have killed all hopes for a financial report until this investigation subsides since Ken has been told by his lawyer to provide the MSD as little info as possible.

Involving legal authorities forces Ken to hold his cards even closer to his chest which results in us knowing less about the company people complain and the feedback loop repeats. Its an unfortunate cycle.

[Jasun7211]

[quote author=RoadStress link=topic=4http://m.youtube.com/results?q=fast%20hash&sm=3ttp://m.youtube.com/results?q=fast%20hash&sm=3thttp://m.youtube.com/results?q=fast%20hash&sm=3tp://m.youtube.com/results?q=fast%20hash&sm=32370.msg7121817#msg7121817 date=1401859864]

Thank you. Its even more ironic that they expect the government to help out when the invested using a currency not backed by the government in an insanely risky investment environment. Really makes you wonder what these people think about BTC. Do they think the government should back it?

If BTC was now worth $1 would they still want the BTC back or the USD refund the MSD is forcing Ken to offer?
You bet they would want the refund, they only want whats best for their bottom line.

You can't have non regulation and regulation at the same time, thats not how it works. Any company has a risk at failing. I just wish we would give Ken even with his shortcoming a chance to succeed or completely fail. He has made many many many mistakes but in the end this MSD investigation makes it more difficult for his to potentially succeed. A 1 year investment is very short in terms of real world investments.

Startups fail all the time due to incompetent management and those shareholders take the loss. Its a risk and when investing you accept that risk.

IF IF IF. This is not an IF issue. IF ken had a working chip by now the company wouldn't be in this position. IF ken didn't screw things over numerous times the company wouldn't be in this position. And the list can go on. But the IFs didn't happened so why speculate? Let's just deal with what we have and stop assuming things.

Give ken a change to succeed? Now? He had more than 1 year to work things out, but all he did was buy overpriced third-party miners. That's it! He didn't accomplished anything else. He wasn't even able to fix the damn website, not to mention that he was afraid of working with Bitpay and he managed to lose over 400BTC to MtGOX. The man is simply incompetent and it was clear from the start. Now that we know about his past failed companies it's obvious that he can't manage anything. WHY do you have such blind faith in ken? WHY?

That is just looking at one aspect of it. There are so many moving variables, both in and out of Ken's control that it is imposible to calculate some meaningful outcome We have a pretty good mining farm going, and were selling product.  Thats progress imo, and this news will just hinder that growth too.  I just don't want any what if's in the future.  The State helps clear any what ifs. Lol, but that's not how I wanted clarity.

I wouldn't call 100TH/s a pretty good mining farm considering that this company raised ~20k BTC. There are private farms that are mining with ~100TH without an IPO. So nothing special there. As for selling products I'm afraid that you aren't selling any products. Do you know how many boards have been sold in total? How many are selling per week? You don't because ken isn't sharing anything (under NDA!) so you are just assuming things.

Being in the top 10 at Eligius until this event happened.....I'll take it for now, it was pretty good and moving albiet at a slower than advertised clip, pretty steadily in the right direction, and thank God for that farm, because if it wern't for that thing hashing away, there wouldn't be a buffer to pay expenses for thus state hold up.  I'm not exactly proud of the situation, but it worked to our favor to have it going this long.

As for selling product. Just watch the video Vince made.  The products were gaining a little trackion....then wack..http://m.youtube.com/results?q=fast%20hash&sm=3

We finally have a mining farm and shares are tradable again. Thats more progress made  in the last couple months  than in the entire history of the company. Its not amazing progress but progress nonetheless.

By this logic it would mean that if you will see a financial report in 1 year it means that things are moving. Maybe in 5 years you will have your own chip which was the reason this company started...
[/quote]

[bigdude]

Looks like almost no buyers left on cryptotrade now.

Last chance to get some btc out of this mess

[funkymunky]

Please no sarcastic answers, I think the majority of us aren't in the mood...


What exactly has changed?


We knew there was an ongoing MSD investigation, this has now been concluded which in my eyes is good news and only a fine levied.

Surely this puts us in a better position than before as we don't have that dark cloud over us?



We knew about Kens "old" businesses, these have been bought up time and time again throughout the course of this endeavour.



I honestly don't understand how one sensationalist news article has managed to bring the price down so low, whereby the position hasn't actually changed all that much the past few days.


Is there something extremely obvious that I'm missing in all of this? 

[bigdude]

Please no sarcastic answers, I think the majority of us aren't in the mood...


What exactly has changed?


We knew there was an ongoing MSD investigation, this has now been concluded which in my eyes is good news and only a fine levied.

Surely this puts us in a better position than before as we don't have that dark cloud over us?



We knew about Kens "old" businesses, these have been bought up time and time again throughout the course of this endeavour.



I honestly don't understand how one sensationalist news article has managed to bring the price down so low, whereby the position hasn't actually changed all that much the past few days.


Is there something extremely obvious that I'm missing in all of this? 

Yes, it is all over

[funkymunky]

Yes, it is all over

If you don't mind expanding on that, that would be great.

[funkymunky]

Thank you for actually taking the time to reply properly Kokoarm.

At present there are ~300 coins in the mining address a 50/50 split at current value covers the cost of the maximum fine and dividends (which I for one am not interested in yet).
I cannot imagine the fine being immediate though.


More importantly though do you have any references to the fact that Hashfast will be using Peppermining and not ActM?


I just want to see the impartial truth and bigger picture, not just rely on the mob mentality clearly visible here.

Thank you

There is no money left is why its over. Just read what ken said - the mining funds will pay the fine and what is left will be to fund future development. So that means we have 60 coins left. Ah but Ken also told refund customers that mined coins will pay their refunds. So we are totally broke now. And HashFast our last chance are going with PepperMinimg not us. Kens rep is the reason for that, he is too much risk even for them. Finally Ken doesnt want this company to succeed and he never has because he has enough coin in his personal wallet to make his life very comfortable.

[kleeck]

There is no money left is why its over. Just read what ken said - the mining funds will pay the fine and what is left will be to fund future development. So that means we have 60 coins left. Ah but Ken also told refund customers that mined coins will pay their refunds. So we are totally broke now. And HashFast our last chance are going with PepperMinimg not us. Kens rep is the reason for that, he is too much risk even for them. Finally Ken doesnt want this company to succeed and he never has because he has enough coin in his personal wallet to make his life very comfortable.

Can you provide sources for any of your reasons/points?

[funkymunky]

Can you provide sources for any of your reasons/points?

HF/Pepper Mining - http://hashfast.com/announcing-our-partnership-with-pepper-mining/

"Posted on 05/09/2014 05/12/2014 by Eduardo deCastro

Update: 12-May-2014"

This is old and pre Bankruptcy proceedings.


The rest is your opinion and not fact.