[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[aquarius]

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

+1

[zumzero]

Guys like me will go down with the ship

I think we can all take comfort in this.

 

Don't be a twat.  It's not becoming.  Smart arse comments and remarks like this are easy to make and take next to no effort.  'Going down with the ship' is to be admired and not ridiculed you dumb fuck.  

I am about to contact the IRS and HMRC and will be posting all my correspondences here.  I'll simply point them to Blahgraphics contacts so they can copy and paste everyone details.  

Here's my first port of call.  Buckle up guys it's going to get interesting....

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tax-evasion/hotline.htm

[shaofis]

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

How many millions in refunds are still owed? We really don't know since Ken has lied to us time and time again about providing any sort of financial information.

[JimmyJazz]

There was 450> bitcoins that got goxxed if I recall correctly.
Ken stated that there were over $6 million in pre orders (up for debate).

So there should theoretically have only been 450 or so shortfall in refunds.
Lets say about $300,000 with an estimate of prices from the start of pre orders to the goxxing.

This leads me to the question - why has it taking so long to refund customers if the shortfall was so little in the grand scheme of things.
I have stated this before and nobody clicked on. It's my belief that Ken has used the pre order customers money to fund the 28nm full custom.
It is not uncommon at all to do use this model in the bitcoin space, however unethical it may be.

Unless of course you think their is something far more sinister going on.

[NotLambchop]

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

Another opportunity for you to invest in Active Mining. Didn't you buy more than $18k worth of Ukyo's shares alone?  Now you can buy the whole company!

[Bargraphics]

He apparently at the time convinced Bar in person that he was going to actually make this company successful

He convinced me that there was still hope for this company by "purchasing" a 55nm design that was at tape-out already. Everything to do with the 55nm I knew about prior to meeting with Ken as I had a meeting in California with People's ASIC a couple weeks prior and was contemplating purchasing the IP myself (or at least part of it with a group of other people) Since we didn't have enough money without taking pre-orders to get a 28nm rolling out I opted out and then recommended to People's ASIC that Ken might be willing to partner with them. They then reached out to Ken and by the time I met with Ken there was already a deal in the works (If you remember that's why Ken traveled to California right before my visit)

but now according to Bar its been a scam all along.

Well now, let's look at the facts as they became available.

Ken led us along saying we would have an eASIC, halted the chip, and then proceeded to make it seem like he was still making this chip

*My Visit Happens

Ken said he had been sitting around for a couple months trying to figure out the best way to proceed with the company after canceling the chip.
Ken then purchased a working 55nm design that was at tape out (4-6 weeks for mask set to be made) and opted to not produce a working 55nm chip
Ken then proceeded to say he was working on a 28nm during this time period but from my knowledge nothing ever materialized from this, which means it literally wasn't even started.

So my only conclusion is that either Ken is extremely incompetent or it's a long con. Either way it's a scam because Ken led us to believe he was competent enough to produce a chip.

Bar can you share any insight into why exactly at the time of your visit it was not a scam and now we know its a scam other than the MSD ruling, that has quite frankly been a long time coming?

Read the above,

"that has quite frankly been a long time coming?" - This is the most inaccurate statement going around. The investigation was happening but the ruling was not set in stone. Ken also led us to believe everything was fine and he was doing the necessary work to defend himself against the MSD. Obviously this is not true since the MSD came out and said he's likely going to get multiple fines and have to pay restitution for his deceitful operation.

Innocent before proven guilty in the USA and a judge agrees that he was guilty of deceitful practices. That changes things quite dramatically.

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

Why anyone would buy into a company that has "$100k in physical assets" but >$1M in potential debt is insanity... regardless of "business as usual"

I have stated this before and nobody clicked on. It's my belief that Ken has used the pre order customers money to fund the 28nm full custom.

Because your head is in the clouds and not down on earth.

Ken was essentially doing fire sales of his boards to be able to purchase more parts for board production & chips from HashFast. Your logic doesn't add up. If he had money then he wouldn't have put a lot of effort/time/money into producing the HashFast clones.

Don't let me stop you from dreaming big though!

...incoherent rage.... ....empty threats of IRS....

Even the IRS needs a good laugh every once in a while I guess. Having this nutter call them will probably be an office joke for years to come.



_______________________________________________________________________

MSD Info:

Shawn Hagerty
Investigator
Missouri Secretary of State, Securities Division
600 W. Main St., Box 1276
Jefferson City, MO  65102
573-526-3901
573-526-3124 (fax)
shawn.hagerty@sos.mo.gov

Scott Johnson
Investigator
Missouri Secretary of State, Securities Division
600 W. Main St., Box 1276
Jefferson City, MO  65102
573-751-4704
scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov

Missouri Securities Contact Information Page

Wood Law Info:

http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation
888-237-0999
1100 Main Street, Suite 1800, Kansas City, Missouri 64105
1736 E. Sunshine Street, Suite 209, Springfield, Missouri 65804

[Phildo]

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

What are these assets? It's hard to put a valuation on hardware (especially hardware that you can't sell for whatever reason). And why assign a value to bitcoins (or anything) that Ken has control of and will not give up?

[equipoise]

...Ken also led us to believe everything was fine and he was doing the necessary work to defend himself against the MSD. Obviously this is not true since the MSD came out and said he's likely going to get multiple fines and have to pay restitution for his deceitful operation.

Ken wrote weeks before the order (or even months - I won't search it now) that he's expecting ~100000$ fine.

[JimmyJazz]

10,000,000 shares at $0.05 is $500,000
Not that big a deal.

And the chances everyone takes the deal are about zero. Maybe say 5 million shares, being generous.

[arousedrhino]

He apparently at the time convinced Bar in person that he was going to actually make this company successful

He convinced me that there was still hope for this company by "purchasing" a 55nm design that was at tape-out already. Everything to do with the 55nm I knew about prior to meeting with Ken as I had a meeting in California with People's ASIC a couple weeks prior and was contemplating purchasing the IP myself (or at least part of it with a group of other people) Since we didn't have enough money without taking pre-orders to get a 28nm rolling out I opted out and then recommended to People's ASIC that Ken might be willing to partner with them. They then reached out to Ken and by the time I met with Ken there was already a deal in the works (If you remember that's why Ken traveled to California right before my visit)

but now according to Bar its been a scam all along.

Well now, let's look at the facts as they became available.

Ken led us along saying we would have an eASIC, halted the chip, and then proceeded to make it seem like he was still making this chip

*My Visit Happens

Ken said he had been sitting around for a couple months trying to figure out the best way to proceed with the company after canceling the chip.
Ken then purchased a working 55nm design that was at tape out (4-6 weeks for mask set to be made) and opted to not produce a working 55nm chip
Ken then proceeded to say he was working on a 28nm during this time period but from my knowledge nothing ever materialized from this, which means it literally wasn't even started.

So my only conclusion is that either Ken is extremely incompetent or it's a long con. Either way it's a scam because Ken led us to believe he was competent enough to produce a chip.

Bar can you share any insight into why exactly at the time of your visit it was not a scam and now we know its a scam other than the MSD ruling, that has quite frankly been a long time coming?

Read the above,

"that has quite frankly been a long time coming?" - This is the most inaccurate statement going around. The investigation was happening but the ruling was not set in stone. Ken also led us to believe everything was fine and he was doing the necessary work to defend himself against the MSD. Obviously this is not true since the MSD came out and said he's likely going to get multiple fines and have to pay restitution for his deceitful operation.

Innocent before proven guilty in the USA and a judge agrees that he was guilty of deceitful practices. That changes things quite dramatically.

Am i the only one that things a valuation of $18k for a company with $100k in physical assets is insanity... regardless of problems...

Why anyone would buy into a company that has "$100k in physical assets" but >$1M in potential debt is insanity... regardless of "business as usual"

I have stated this before and nobody clicked on. It's my belief that Ken has used the pre order customers money to fund the 28nm full custom.

Because your head is in the clouds and not down on earth.

Ken was essentially doing fire sales of his boards to be able to purchase more parts for board production & chips from HashFast. Your logic doesn't add up. If he had money then he wouldn't have put a lot of effort/time/money into producing the HashFast clones.

Don't let me stop you from dreaming big though!

...incoherent rage.... ....empty threats of IRS....

Even the IRS needs a good laugh every once in a while I guess. Having this nutter call them will probably be an office joke for years to come.



_______________________________________________________________________

MSD Info:

Shawn Hagerty
Investigator
Missouri Secretary of State, Securities Division
600 W. Main St., Box 1276
Jefferson City, MO  65102
573-526-3901
573-526-3124 (fax)
shawn.hagerty@sos.mo.gov

Scott Johnson
Investigator
Missouri Secretary of State, Securities Division
600 W. Main St., Box 1276
Jefferson City, MO  65102
573-751-4704
scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov

Missouri Securities Contact Information Page

Wood Law Info:

http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation
888-237-0999
1100 Main Street, Suite 1800, Kansas City, Missouri 64105
1736 E. Sunshine Street, Suite 209, Springfield, Missouri 65804

Thank you for clarifying the timeline and the reasons why you thought he could still pull it off at the time.

[NotLambchop]

10,000,000 shares at $0.05 is $500,000
Not that big a deal.

And the chances everyone takes the deal are about zero. Maybe say 5 million shares, being generous.

Absolutely.  Why aren't you buying?

[Jasun7211]

Looks like someone couldn't wait for the state of MO to refund them.  Who had 400kshares to dump.   300 freakin satoshis

[wasubii]

Guys like me will go down with the ship

I think we can all take comfort in this.

 

...incoherent rage, most likely attributable to SPS

Meh

[tempestb]

Look, even if Ken pays the fine and refunds the people who want out, Ken is not allowed to then continue to have shares with folks who aren't accredited investors.  It's like running a prostitution business, getting busted once and then saying, "Well it's cool we can keep running the business this way because we paid a fine."  No, you can't.  He'll get fined again if it continues.

Only Ken said that people can stay in.  The MSD didn't say that.  They said Ken has to cease the shares activity and pay refunds.  If you stay in, Ken is still never going to be able to pay you a dividend. Not unless you become an accredited investor.  That's the law. 

You are flushing all your money away if you don't take the refund.  Ken will be forced to abandon the remaining shareholders by law.

Do you think that he's going to just keep doing it?  My God...  The next investigation would be the SEC that will tear him apart and throw him in jail.  He's not going to risk that to give you a few hundred Satoshi.

The only reason Ken is saying it'll be business as usual is that, well for him it will be but not for you.  And if you don't get a refund, well then he never has to pay you anything. 

You guys are holding onto nothing.  Ken can't get around the law.  The law says he cannot have shares with you if you're not accredited.  Go get accredited if you want to stay in it.  Otherwise, you'll never get another Satoshi from Ken regardless if he suddenly appeared with a miracle chip in hand.  You get nothing.

Also, that 100k value of the company's assets means nothing.  You didn't purchase equity shares, you purchased profit shares.  They are worthless.  Without financials, you can't ever prove there were profits.

[JimmyJazz]

Can you please show me where in the ruling this is specifically stated?

[tempestb]

Which part?  You mean the "law" that exists?  It's a law.  Laws can't be broken again just because you pay a fine.  You don't get to keep speeding because you paid a speeding ticket once.

He'd be breaking the law again and again by continuing to operate the fund for unaccredited investors.  He doesn't get a free pass by paying the fine one time.

I dunno how else to explain it.  You might want to call and talk to your lawyer or maybe call the MSD youself and ask about it, they'll explain that to you.  You can pretend you're ZZ so you won't get in any trouble if you're afraid they'll come to your house and take your bike or something.

[JimmyJazz]

My understanding of it is Ken is no longer allowed to issue more shares.
He stated in his own press release through his lawyer that this would not be a problem as he would not be seeking further investment.

[SebastianJu]

Ken led us along saying we would have an eASIC, halted the chip, and then proceeded to make it seem like he was still making this chip

*My Visit Happens

Ken said he had been sitting around for a couple months trying to figure out the best way to proceed with the company after canceling the chip.
Ken then purchased a working 55nm design that was at tape out (4-6 weeks for mask set to be made) and opted to not produce a working 55nm chip
Ken then proceeded to say he was working on a 28nm during this time period but from my knowledge nothing ever materialized from this, which means it literally wasn't even started.

I cant believe the incompetence of many, if not most, bitcoin entrepreneurs. Someone from the old board said Ken halted eASIC because the speed was not fast enough for him. Then he sits around months thinking what to do? In Bitcoin economy months are similar to years in the real world.

I wonder if its really was perfectionism that led to all these wrong decisions but its a pain that someone makes stupid decisions out of his twisted mind, keep information away from shareholders so that they cant speak in it, and then run it on the wall with fullspeed.

Somehow i feel Ken deserves every fine he has to pay. I cant really feel for him. It probably would have been way different if he would be honest all the time, communicated with us, let us decide with him and so on. But it looks Bitcoin still misses that kind of entrepreneur.

[Jasun7211]

There is no official resolution until someone with offical statutory power makes a ruling, not some psuedo neo-laywer who doesn't even work for a govt agency on a bitcointalk board.  These days law is fantasy with many redundant, overlaping, contradictory, la ws....let alone the correptable officials to decide a certian way using whever slant of law they want.  So back to the speculation, and Ken just keep on truckin' man....even if the truck is in a ditch of the highway.  Just blow that airhorn if you need help.  People always get horny when they need help. ......back to the hegelian dialectic dance in here.  Can we start a hadfields and McCoys theme.... cowboys and indians would work as well.

[Bargraphics]

I have been lurking since June and decided to join today mostly because of the BS I see on this board.  I have a bunch of shares as well and truly believe in Ken.  We had a few PMs back and forth during the exchange fiascos, and considering all the chaos it was for me, I can imagine how hard it is to organize all these shareholders and shares.  There are so many moving parts in our situation that the end of Nov info release issue is a major...minor detail....amongst many more pressing issues.  While I'm a natural sceptic at heart....which I think most of us that invest in cryptos are....I truly believe that Ken has his own and our best intrests at heart.  If anyone knows of Karl Denninger, Ken has that type of background and persona, and its a good thing in the end.  As the world shifts into this new paradigm, people like Ken already recognize that they have the potential to be on the top of the new hedgemonic scales.  Why would anyone sell out/scam after this much effort, and give up so much more potential power.  I find it funny as theprice of BTC goes up in value in Fiat more people get nervous, yet isn't it Fiat that we are all escaping?  In the end if all you have   is 1BTC free and not invested in anything, we all know that one BTC will give us all the individual power we will need in buying power.  Although I don't like the fact that Ken maybe quiet about the current situation, just remeber why we all probably picked this venture to invest in in the begining, since it was one of the best looking investments along with deprived's funds and crypto-trade.....they looked the best and most viable.   The most prudent fundmanagers/owners are taking the same position as Ken.  Deprived is also holding my shares and not paying dividneds, because once you start treating shares of the same entity differently the shares automatically become non fungible.....Don't forget boys this is still very much the Wild wild west of investing.   Go with that mindset and everything will be fine.......its friday. Bring on the women!!!!!

It's hard to let go