[PRE-ANN][HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast

[robmillernow]

I've started @HeavycoinNews on Twitter - http://twitter.com/heavycoinnews
I also believe that people with no special hardware should have a chance to "get in the game"!

[micryon]

They can't "invest" in their own IPO, transfering from one BTC address that you have to another BTC address that you also control you lose 0, hence they are taking 0 risk in "investing" in their own IPO.

Get it now?

Umm.. yeah.. i'm agreeing with you

I was just comparing this to an IPO model where you have a set price, for a set# of coins.  My point was that.. at least in that model, once the coins are sold-out (if devs decide to buy their own ipo coins and dumped 20 BTC into let's say), that would prevent them from getting more investment from others.  hence there's a check-sum there against doing what you are saying.

[matt608]

It's better for the invested coins to be burned like they did with CounterParty so the Dev can't just re-invest them immediately into the premine diluting the investors and receiving a huge portion.  If this was changed so the coins were burned instead I would give it another look.

[keccak512]

I've started @HeavycoinNews on Twitter - http://twitter.com/heavycoinnews
I also believe that people with no special hardware should have a chance to "get in the game"!

Nice work!  1,000 HVC pre-allocated for you in the bounty phase.  I will update the bounties section listing your bitcointalk.org accountname and promised reward.

[qwertyqwerty]

Registered Heavycointalk.org

Temporary forum online at http://heavycoin.boards.net/ as sandbox. will be migrated to full forum installation pointing to above domain.

[nomisugi]

Registered Heavycointalk.org

Temporary forum online at http://heavycoin.boards.net/ as sandbox. will be migrated to full forum installation pointing to above domain.

It is a great start with getting the domain - thanks!
I just wanted to remind the bounty is for "setup and maintenance" of dedicated forum.
First person to have this up and working is awarded the bounty.

[ymer]

They can't "invest" in their own IPO, transfering from one BTC address that you have to another BTC address that you also control you lose 0, hence they are taking 0 risk in "investing" in their own IPO.

Get it now?

Umm.. yeah.. i'm agreeing with you

I was just comparing this to an IPO model where you have a set price, for a set# of coins.  My point was that.. at least in that model, once the coins are sold-out (if devs decide to buy their own ipo coins and dumped 20 BTC into let's say), that would prevent them from getting more investment from others.  hence there's a check-sum there against doing what you are saying.

The IPO has no limit, the coins don't have a set price, the investors get a proportional part of the coins depending on the total investment. So the more BTC are raised, the less coins you get per BTC invested.

Stop playing stupid.

[keccak512]

It's better for the invested coins to be burned like they did with CounterParty so the Dev can't just re-invest them immediately into the premine diluting the investors and receiving a huge portion.  If this was changed so the coins were burned instead I would give it another look.

A valid point, but why would anyone expend great development effort on a crypto-currency and then undermine their own IPO?  This is not a copy and paste coin and there are easier and better ways to cheat.

Nevertheless, no one can argue with the uncertainties, risks and conspiracies that some users will put forward on this thread.  Everyone knows that risk is an inherent part of an IPO.  But without risk, there is usually no reward.

With that in mind, the forums indicate that you were actually a NXT IPO genesis stakeholder.  You certainly did well investing into NXT in this style of IPO.  So, it seems there are some positives to it.

[micryon]

The IPO has no limit, the coins don't have a set price, the investors get a proportional part of the coins depending on the total investment. So the more BTC are raised, the less coins you get per BTC invested.

Stop playing stupid.

To clarify, i am making a comparison of this IPO with other IPOs.  Many IPOs has just a set limit, based on how much initial capital they need.  They seek venture capital/investment.. like how Ethereum IPO was supposed to work. 

I'm just saying that in that model.. you have less risk of having complete no-risk dilution.  Because the amount diluted is a set amount, based on the capital needed to start the business.

[ymer]

The IPO has no limit, the coins don't have a set price, the investors get a proportional part of the coins depending on the total investment. So the more BTC are raised, the less coins you get per BTC invested.

Stop playing stupid.

To clarify, i am making a comparison of this IPO with other IPOs.  Many IPOs has just a set limit, based on how much initial capital they need.  They seek venture capital/investment.. like how Ethereum IPO was supposed to work. 

I'm just saying that in that model.. you have less risk of having complete no-risk dilution.  Because the amount diluted is a set amount, based on the capital needed to start the business.

Well then you should not use that model to defend your position, we're talking about this coin and this IPO model, which is an obvious scam.

[MsCollec]

no cap on the btc invested, just another opportunity to screw small investors.

set a limit on the IPO and once this amount has been reached end the IPO.

[micryon]

Well then you should not use that model to defend your position, we're talking about this coin and this IPO model, which is an obvious scam.

I'm not defending any position here.. I'm not even associated with this coin.

Just making a suggestion to the devs that perhaps they should set a limit on the coin, and do a more fair IPO for sake of investors... so that it looks less like a scam.

Because yeah right now it does feel scam-ish.

[keccak512]

Well then you should not use that model to defend your position, we're talking about this coin and this IPO model, which is an obvious scam.

I'm not defending any position here.. I'm not even associated with this coin.

Just making a suggestion to the devs that perhaps they should set a limit on the coin, and do a more fair IPO for sake of investors... so that it looks less like a scam.

Because yeah right now it does feel scam-ish.

We appreciate your constructive feedback.  A solution still seems difficult.  Suppose we did as you say, set a price of 21.4/5000000 = 0.00000428 BTC/HVC.  How will this help?  Someone could still send 20 BTC and buy up all the HVC.

We want a good distribution of HVC across many IPO investors from different backgrounds.  We want the price determined by the free market.  We are hoping the free market will determine the distribution too and that it will be spread out.

[keccak512]

no cap on the btc invested, just another opportunity to screw small investors.

set a limit on the IPO and once this amount has been reached end the IPO.

What do you mean?  There is a limit--- only 5M HVC are offered in the IPO.  That's posted very clearly on the IPO announcement.  There's even a table showing it.

Or do you mean a limit on the amount of BTC invested?  How would that help?  Suppose we place a 20 BTC limit.  One guy can still come along and buy it all up.  I don't see any improvement here.

[keccak512]

To whoever sent the 0.2 BTC investment today (https://blockchain.info/tx/e67a8005a041981c6d6bf3b20991282b075aaa684af72788096a85dab82eb33d) please don't forget to complete your IPO registration by generating a Heavycoin keypair and posting the public key to this forum.

Also, we need to verify that you are indeed the same person who sent the investment, so please sign your Heavycoin public key using the Bitcoin address from which you sent your investment (13rw61nQ4Pb6q4Xp7fXkyAKAvRFqqQgHd5) and paste the signature here.

Thanks.

[micryon]

We appreciate your constructive feedback.  A solution still seems difficult.  Suppose we did as you say, set a price of 21.4/5000000 = 0.00000428 BTC/HVC.  How will this help?  Someone could still send 20 BTC and buy up all the HVC.

Actually it will help the perception of it.. think about it: in the fixed price model: if someone (let's say you) buy up all of the HVC premine available.  That means you won't get any more BTC from anyone else.  You take the risk of not taking anyone's money, and just paying yourself with the coins.  So others will not invest in the 10BTC, because it was all sold out.  You are out 10 BTC.

Compare that to if you let it float (like now).  Let's say that draws in 10 BTC forth of investment from others.  You could immediately dilute that without any risk, and take half the coins.  And still retain the 10 BTC from others.  That's a much bigger risk you are asking people to take.

Sure.. there's risk in everything, especially here.  But there are ways to either reduce the risk, or increase the risk.  For this investment opportunity, it seems worthwhile to wait for the last minute to invest... to see where the price is actually set at before jumping in.  But even then, you, or anyone else can come in with 100 BTC last minute , and dilute everyone down to nothing... Only difference is that the dev themselves can do this with essentially 0 risk, while still collect whatever was bought in previous to the close of funding period.


Anyways... as you say.. it's risk either way.  But this is definitely taking a bigger risk vs some other ways of funding.

This coin and everything about it does feel legit, and even if you are the one that took the lion share of premine with that 20 BTC... probably still be successful.  But just a suggestion on how this is currently perceived.

[doge94]

We will be working with devs to ensure everything will be working on launch! First pool!



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[keccak512]

We will be working with devs to ensure everything will be working on launch! First pool!

Acknowledged.  Thanks again.

[bakedrice]

I honestly don't think the devs invested in their own IPO, especially after spending so much time to develop this coin. Why wreck your own chance at launching a new potential coin fairly?

Maybe the investor wants to remain anonymous. Or maybe he wants to scare off other investors so he'll get the big pie.. Or maybe its wolong who wants to own this market?

[keccak512]

Actually it will help the perception of it.. think about it: in the fixed price model: if someone (let's say you) buy up all of the HVC premine available.  That means you won't get any more BTC from anyone else.  You take the risk of not taking anyone's money, and just paying yourself with the coins.  So others will not invest in the 10BTC, because it was all sold out.  You are out 10 BTC.

Fair point, but on the other hand, this also means that one person can easily buy the entire 5M unless we set an extremely high price, but what should that price be?  Obviously 20 BTC is out the window.  Maybe 40 BTC?  100 BTC?  We don't know.  Even for 100 BTC we'd be unhappy if someone had bought it all.  We don't want the entire IPO supply going to a single entity.  We want Heavycoin to be a success, and we believe a helpful part of that is getting a good distribution in the IPO phase.

In our IPO model someone cannot just buy up all of the HVC if they have enough money.  The worst they could do is to purchase at such a high price that it discourages everyone else.   This is probably the 20 BTC investor's strategy.  Nevertheless, in our IPO model other investors can still buy HVC and dilute this large stakeholder's stash.  The free market will decide the price and we hope that it will also provide a good distribution.

This coin and everything about it does feel legit, and even if you are the one that took the lion share of premine with that 20 BTC... probably still be successful.  But just a suggestion on how this is currently perceived.

Thanks.  We are open to suggestions on how we can improve, but we must also follow our principles and goals.  We acknowledge that ever since the 20 BTC "bomb" was dropped, we have not been doing well on achieving our distribution goal.  However, it's still early days and we think there is plenty time for that to change.

Soon everyone will find out that we devs are legit.  The only question for us is how many real IPO investors we'll have and how well the HVC will be distributed among them.