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Author Topic: Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?  (Read 17152 times)
Nekrobios
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October 16, 2011, 06:31:25 AM
 #181

BitterTea, why are you still arguing with that troll from SA? He obviously doesn’t believe the BS he spouts.

I’m surprised at how incredibly susceptible many Bitcoiners still are to this.
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October 16, 2011, 06:36:30 AM
 #182

^ Feel free to debate if you like, but don't try and vilify and other someone just because you don't agree with their point of view.

personally identified addresses

BZZZT. Not Bitcoin. Try again.

The Bitcoin system itself does not care if you personally identify your address or not, or if an entire country does or not.  

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If illegal activity is described as initiation of force against another, great!

Laws would be determined by the Democratic system.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 16, 2011, 06:43:44 AM
 #183

Laws would be determined by the Democratic system.

Might makes right?

The will of the people makes law.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 16, 2011, 06:46:25 AM
 #184

The will of the people makes law.

Good men don't need rules and evil men ignore them.

Then use the Democratic system to abolish them.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 16, 2011, 06:56:16 AM
 #185

The will of the people makes law.

Good men don't need rules and evil men ignore them.

Then use the Democratic system to abolish them.

Pointless and fruitless exercise. I'll opt out thank you.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 16, 2011, 07:09:29 AM
 #186

The will of the people makes law.

Good men don't need rules and evil men ignore them.

Then use the Democratic system to abolish them.

Pointless and fruitless exercise. I'll opt out thank you.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Opting out of a pointless endeavor does not constitute doing nothing.

So what are you doing?

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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October 16, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
 #187

I have been trying to promote bitcoin a bit on facebook and other pages for the 15th october global protest...

Isn't what the protesters want, exactly down to almost the tiniest detail, what bitcoin will offer?

Or do they just want to protest?

Does anyone have tips on how to best communicate bitcoin when talking to occupy protesters?


I did not read all, so maybe someone else answered this question like this:

They are not interested because they are socialists. This means they want a central control of all resources. They want the resources allocated by some non-elected comission, not by free individuals.

They are the natural enemy of people who are interested in something like a free, uncontrolable cryptocurrency.

The lots of good people (young people who are concerned about injustice etc. in the world) in this movement do not know about this. They are blinded by idealism and instrumentalized by some sneaky socialist control freaks.

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October 16, 2011, 01:09:25 PM
 #188

I reckon if you go down to Occupy and give out a load of bitbills (and gold?) you'll get your money back later in  investments to the currency.

Did a search on youtube for 'occupy bitcoin' and got 3 vids. Opportunity!

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October 16, 2011, 03:49:41 PM
 #189

I have been trying to promote bitcoin a bit on facebook and other pages for the 15th october global protest...

Isn't what the protesters want, exactly down to almost the tiniest detail, what bitcoin will offer?

Or do they just want to protest?

Does anyone have tips on how to best communicate bitcoin when talking to occupy protesters?


I did not read all, so maybe someone else answered this question like this:

They are not interested because they are socialists. This means they want a central control of all resources. They want the resources allocated by some non-elected comission, not by free individuals.

They are the natural enemy of people who are interested in something like a free, uncontrolable cryptocurrency.

The lots of good people (young people who are concerned about injustice etc. in the world) in this movement do not know about this. They are blinded by idealism and instrumentalized by some sneaky socialist control freaks.



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October 16, 2011, 05:07:53 PM
 #190


I did not read all, so maybe someone else answered this question like this:

They are not interested because they are socialists. This means they want a central control of all resources. They want the resources allocated by some non-elected comission, not by free individuals.

They are the natural enemy of people who are interested in something like a free, uncontrolable cryptocurrency.

The lots of good people (young people who are concerned about injustice etc. in the world) in this movement do not know about this. They are blinded by idealism and instrumentalized by some sneaky socialist control freaks.


It is true that an uncontrollable cryptocurrency has a more natural appeal to moochers who want to ride on the back of society's efforts for free and who use code-words like 'violence' in a pitiful attempt to gain sympathy.

If/when the other groups get off their asses as have these protesters and actually do something it might be easier market Bitcoin it more direct ways (e.g., 'you can easily cheat on your taxes!')  In the mean time, these protesters are unlikely to have much love for the Fed and the financial institutions who control the USD so just showing them that Bitcoin exists and is useful in a tangible way should be plenty good enough.

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October 16, 2011, 05:29:54 PM
 #191


I did ...
....

... blinded by idealism and instrumentalized by some sneaky socialist control freaks.


It is true that an uncontrollable cryptocurrency has a more natural appeal to moochers who want to ride on the back of society's efforts for free and who use code-words like 'violence' in a pitiful attempt to gain sympathy.

If/when the other groups get off their asses as have these protesters and actually do something it might be easier market Bitcoin it more direct ways (e.g., 'you can easily cheat on your taxes!')  In the mean time, these protesters are unlikely to have much love for the Fed and the financial institutions who control the USD so just showing them that Bitcoin exists and is useful in a tangible way should be plenty good enough.


English is not my mother language and I did not understand the real meaning of your post. Sorry Smiley ...


"these protesters are unlikely to have much love for the Fed and the financial institutions who control the USD so just showing them that Bitcoin exists and is useful in a tangible way should be plenty good enough."

There are reports that this movement is some sort of controlled opposition. To assimilate the unsatisfied frustrated ones and use the force of their ethical demands to establish some global currency, managed by a non-elected comission. Please google and think by yourself.

Key concept of my opinion is, that the people in power do not really care, if they use capitalism, socialism or ...ism to apply their power on me and you and most of the other people.


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October 16, 2011, 05:31:30 PM
 #192

It is true that an uncontrollable cryptocurrency has a more natural appeal to moochers who want to ride on the back of society's efforts for free and who use code-words like 'violence' in a pitiful attempt to gain sympathy.

If/when the other groups get off their asses as have these protesters and actually do something it might be easier market Bitcoin it more direct ways (e.g., 'you can easily cheat on your taxes!')  In the mean time, these protesters are unlikely to have much love for the Fed and the financial institutions who control the USD so just showing them that Bitcoin exists and is useful in a tangible way should be plenty good enough.


I'm really confused. Who are the moochers?

I don't want to pay taxes, but I also don't want to rely upon government services. Unfortunately, they do not allow competition, so I have no choice.

I suppose those who refuse to pay protection money to the mafia are "moochers" too?
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October 16, 2011, 06:04:15 PM
 #193

It is true that an uncontrollable cryptocurrency has a more natural appeal to moochers who want to ride on the back of society's efforts for free and who use code-words like 'violence' in a pitiful attempt to gain sympathy.

If/when the other groups get off their asses as have these protesters and actually do something it might be easier market Bitcoin it more direct ways (e.g., 'you can easily cheat on your taxes!')  In the mean time, these protesters are unlikely to have much love for the Fed and the financial institutions who control the USD so just showing them that Bitcoin exists and is useful in a tangible way should be plenty good enough.


I'm really confused. Who are the moochers?

People who want to use the bridges, jettys, buracratic infrastructure that makes it so I don't need to shoot people who trespass on my property, etc, etc which my taxes built, but don't want to pay their fair share themselves.

I don't want to pay taxes, but I also don't want to rely upon government services. Unfortunately, they do not allow competition, so I have no choice.

And I don't want some unregulate nuclear power plant melting down in my area under some whackadoodle theory that the free market will put people out of business when they melt down enough power plants.

I suppose those who refuse to pay protection money to the mafia are "moochers" too?

No, you are supposed to have a functional justice system so you have options.  Unfortunatly, this is part of a 'society' (where the word 'socialism' comes from) and it costs money.


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October 16, 2011, 06:33:07 PM
 #194

Unfortunatly, this is part of a 'society' (where the word 'socialism' comes from) and it costs money.

Sorry, no:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Socialism

I won't deny that they have common roots, though.

And WTF is that:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=moochers&searchmode=none

Maybe this:
http://www.moocher.de/

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October 16, 2011, 08:43:24 PM
 #195

Honestly? Education. When you learn how the system works, you learn thatthere's really not much you can do about it, and though not guaranteed, the outcome will usually be good in the long run. So, maybe education, and a bit of surrender and hope.

I think using "that's how the system works as a justification is a cop-out answer that is used for justifying some pretty terrible views. None of our ancestors, from those who served under feudal lords, to the people who fought for civil rights for women and minorities, ever fully accepted "the way things are" - if they had, none of us would be as well off today as we are.

Hm, maybe? I wouldn't know. I don't go to Harvard. Just lucky to have gotten into this school (though busted my butt like crazy to get in there). My parents aren't rich, and I'm paying for the $30k a year or so that it costs pretty much entirely out of my own pocket and through loans.

While hard work + out-of-pocket/"bootstraps" stories are inspirational, but they are the exception, not the rule.

If everyone was a winner, no one would be. We either have one very skilled and driver winner with 10 not so skilled and risk adverse employee losers, or we have one somewhat lazy welfare recipient with "needs" as a winner, and 10 people working and payi g taxes as losers. I'm all for equality, I just don't think it will work, since it will naturally degenerate to communism or free-market libertalianism over time. Always has.

I would rather there be no winners and no losers than a few winners and a ton of losers, but I genuinely care for my fellow human beings. I also don't believe in this "lazy welfare recipient" meme; welfare is not some glorious thing. People want to be productive, nobody likes feeling useless. The best solution you can have for this is to offer a bunch of "public works" programs to allow them to take on jobs that make them feel productive while they are in-between full-time public service jobs or private industry careers, Of course there will be freeloaders - that happens, but it is far more better to deal with a few freeloaders than demean ourselves as a species as cast those who cannot get work, are too disabled, or are too depressed to be motivated to the side like trash instead of taking care of them and leaving open opportunities for them to improve themselves.

Finance doesn't actually suck money off labor. It sucks money off debtors and investors. Human resources sucks money off labor. I don't know if human capital management degrees are free-market capitalists.
Likewise i can say the same about you. You didn't learn something that led you into supporting socialist-democratic principles, you just saw that some people had things you didn't, got jealous, and wanting to have what they have succumbed to your greedy nature. Everything in the world is done for selfish greedy reasons, even if the reason is so that you can feel good and smug about yourself.

I'm not jealous at all, I'm reasonably well off, since I was born into a well off family.
Maybe what you could more accurately accuse me of is "feeling guilty". People like you and I have been lucky to have many opportunities available to us. Hell, I haven't even had to pay for my college education. I'm very thankful for all this.
I also know that not everyone in the world, hell, not even in this country has had even close to the chances I have. I am also aware that many of the things I buy, including clothes and even food, are products created or retrieved by slaves. My anger at the "rich" comes from the fact that I know that the ratio of 'labor/work' they do compared to the laborers at the bottom is much different than the ratio of pay they both receive.
Also, finance very much does suck money off labor: it may not be directly; but it still does. It's similar to what I said above. Debtors/investors are actually laborers often, too.
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October 16, 2011, 08:53:15 PM
 #196

The strong are rewarded and the weak are left to subsistence or death. Man isn't just this way; nature is in general. I embrace nature and it seems many do here. The determined and strong ones who strive for forced equality will find themselves achieving the same power they once hated; creating a fresh elite.

It's an endless cycle. True equality will only be achieved by rewarding strength and allowing all to become strong. If your preference is happiness and sustainable life, this is all you can reasonably strive for.

"Dare to liberate your mind, from all things, old and new."
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October 16, 2011, 09:09:49 PM
 #197

The strong are rewarded and the weak are left to subsistence or death. Man isn't just this way; nature is in general. I embrace nature and it seems many do here. The determined and strong ones who strive for forced equality will find themselves achieving the same power they once hated; creating a fresh elite.

It's an endless cycle. True equality will only be achieved by rewarding strength and allowing all to become strong. If your preference is happiness and sustainable life, this is all you can reasonably strive for.

We are the most advanced species on this planet. We don't have to accept that nature - the mere fact that we can identify it as a problem and possible solutions to it means we are more than capable as a species of rising above that nature.
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October 16, 2011, 09:20:16 PM
 #198

The strong are rewarded and the weak are left to subsistence or death. Man isn't just this way; nature is in general. I embrace nature and it seems many do here. The determined and strong ones who strive for forced equality will find themselves achieving the same power they once hated; creating a fresh elite.

It's an endless cycle. True equality will only be achieved by rewarding strength and allowing all to become strong. If your preference is happiness and sustainable life, this is all you can reasonably strive for.

We are the most advanced species on this planet. We don't have to accept that nature - the mere fact that we can identify it as a problem and possible solutions to it means we are more than capable as a species of rising above that nature.

Have you found the problem or are you just recognizing the symptoms? That is the real question.

"Dare to liberate your mind, from all things, old and new."
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October 16, 2011, 10:53:52 PM
 #199

The strong are rewarded and the weak are left to subsistence or death. Man isn't just this way; nature is in general. I embrace nature and it seems many do here. The determined and strong ones who strive for forced equality will find themselves achieving the same power they once hated; creating a fresh elite.

It's an endless cycle. True equality will only be achieved by rewarding strength and allowing all to become strong. If your preference is happiness and sustainable life, this is all you can reasonably strive for.

We are the most advanced species on this planet. We don't have to accept that nature - the mere fact that we can identify it as a problem and possible solutions to it means we are more than capable as a species of rising above that nature.

Have you found the problem or are you just recognizing the symptoms? That is the real question.

Microorganisms are the most advanced species on the planet. You would die without them. They have existed for hundreds of millions of years and will outlive us. They can live for thousands of years and even survive interplanetary travel hitchhiking on a rock. One of them can kill you or your whole species.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 16, 2011, 11:23:39 PM
 #200

I think using "that's how the system works as a justification is a cop-out answer that is used for justifying some pretty terrible views. None of our ancestors, from those who served under feudal lords, to the people who fought for civil rights for women and minorities, ever fully accepted "the way things are" - if they had, none of us would be as well off today as we are.

I did not mean to imply "that's the way things are,"I meant to imply that's the natural progression of things. Like there is a natural progression for people whi's rights are restricted for no reason to get more and more equal rights, there is a progression for business to becompe less and less regulated, or the government trying to regulate the business more and more corrupt by those they are trying to regulate.

Hm, maybe? I wouldn't know. I don't go to Harvard. Just lucky to have gotten into this school (though busted my butt like crazy to get in there). My parents aren't rich, and I'm paying for the $30k a year or so that it costs pretty much entirely out of my own pocket and through loans.

While hard work + out-of-pocket/"bootstraps" stories are inspirational, but they are the exception, not the rule.

I don't see why what I did wasn't that particularly hard. I didn't even have all that good of grades in high school. Just took some part time community college classes while working, then took out a loan to go to one university to finish my bachelors, then after graduating found a job (which i might add pays WAY below my skill level), and while working there took out a loan to get my masters degree, taking classes in the evenings part time.This isn't particularly hard. The only major difference between my friends and me is that I don't have every video game console out, don't buy games and movies all the time, don't buy junk and trinkets every time i want something, don't go to a restaurant every week, have only the most basic cable, don't buy clothes unless i need them, eat the cheapest stuff I can find, drive a crappy old car with 200k+ miles on it, and don't have a lot of free time what with the work, classes, homework, and some extracurriculars I do. So, you want to be the "bootstraps" rich guy? Just don't waste your money on shit and get better priorities. That's about it.


I would rather there be no winners and no losers than a few winners and a ton of losers, but I genuinely care for my fellow human beings. I also don't believe in this "lazy welfare recipient" meme; welfare is not some glorious thing. People want to be productive, nobody likes feeling useless. The best solution you can have for this is to offer a bunch of "public works" programs to allow them to take on jobs that make them feel productive while they are in-between full-time public service jobs or private industry careers, Of course there will be freeloaders - that happens, but it is far more better to deal with a few freeloaders than demean ourselves as a species as cast those who cannot get work, are too disabled, or are too depressed to be motivated to the side like trash instead of taking care of them and leaving open opportunities for them to improve themselves.

I'm not against the idea of infrastructure or welfare for those who genuinely need it. But if everyone was equal with no winners or losers, everyone would be a loser, since why bother working if you know you'll be taken care of anyway? What's the drive/incentive to be better if you know you won't be a winner even if you try to be?

My anger at the "rich" comes from the fact that I know that the ratio of 'labor/work' they do compared to the laborers at the bottom is much different than the ratio of pay they both receive.

Well, the reason for that is because not many can do the stuff the "rich" can, but plenty can do the stuff the laborers can. It's really just simple supply and demand. If laborers demand to get higher pay, someone else wil come around and offer to take the limited number of jobs for a lower pay (like Chinese and Indians did). The whole union and minimum wage thing may have worked when we were more or less isolated, but in a globalized world we entered just 15 years ago, free market is king. There's no more single all-encompasing rules to keep workers from competing for jobs. So, the only option we have, really, is to create a one-world government that passes minimum wage laws globally (impossible), or have workers become more and more skilled with more unique and specialized skills. Lucky for them, we now have plenty of evidence that the sweatshops people were complaining about ten years ago do, in fact, progress to more competition for employees, which means higher wages and better working conditions. Though if you have a better, WORKABLE idea of how to solve that problem, i'm all ears.

Also, finance very much does suck money off labor: it may not be directly; but it still does. It's similar to what I said above. Debtors/investors are actually laborers often, too.

Finance is a tool and a service that at the very core simply tries to match up risk with the estimated cost of that risk, nothing more. People with too low an income are too much of a risk, and shouldn't attempt to buy things like videogames, junk, and even houses, with borrowed money.

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